The Syndicate

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:33 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:06 pm Is anyone interested in doing the thing i'm proposing? The more the merrier!
Do you need it soon? To do what you're planning?

I won't have time to sit down and get into it until around 5pm PST after they take all my blood away.

I don't need huge lists, a one-sentence answer works perfectly fine. The sooner we have results, the sooner we can use them.

Is anyone interested in doing the thing i'm proposing? The more the merrier!

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:53 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:12 pm I'd still like it if as many of us as are able could list reasons to read everybody as town. I have a reason for asking this, and the more people who do it, the more potentially useful the exercise is.
But why can't you just come right out and tell us your plan?

Because that would defeat the purpose. What harm is there in doing this?

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:51 pm nijuukyugou - Finally a post from this player slot! Insertglorfblooper is town because there's no way two players fail to pick up a scum role card, right?

@Sloonei I didn't understand this. Can you explain?

The entire point of the exercise is to make an argument specifically in favor of each player being town. That was my attempt to do that.

Anyone else wanna take me up on the Town Reads list proposal?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:30 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:24 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:14 am Blah. I'm waffling again. Epi is convincing and he's had pretty good instincts so far. But unfortunately I'm going to bed so I've got to make up my mind.

quin

Final answer.

@dunya I'd look into quin, DDL, and Wilgy (who's oddly gotten a total pass the last couple of days)
Near the end of the day dunya asked cbob if he flipped civ what players he'd look at. He listed these three. If he received a sketchy result he'd probably list them in that post.

Also I don't agree with the idea that cbobs 2 shot cop check is useless just because one check only tells lies and the other only tells truths. It's different than usual sure but either way he learns something about both players, and if one of his checks dies or is otherwise confirmed, his other check becomes absolute.

2 civ reads means one of his checks is mafia
1 mafia and 1 civ read means either both checks are mafia or both checks are civ(mathematically the ladder is more possible, unless cbob is a cop god)
2 mafia reads, a 50-50 shot just like 2 civ reads

No matter which of those happened it would have altered the course of his actions.
i call this the labyrinth door theory

This seems like the most likely evidence of who he checked.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:21 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:33 am
Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 am
nutella wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:31 am RIP epi and welcome niju

Ugh I'm not feeling super confident about anything and would go along with whatever tbh. I'd vote for Sig, I'd vote for Quin, I'd maybe vote for Kyle, heck I'd even vote for Sloonei. LC and DDL I'm less inclined to suspect but I could be wrong.
I'm having a hard time trusting anyone at this point and that's sad this late in the game.

Let's talk about why we think mafia would kill epi. Do you think we can glean any info from that?
He was one of the most civ looking players in the game.
If that was the reason, they'd have targeted nutella or sloonei imo.

There's been more doubt surrounding myself and nutella than there ever was for Epi after Day 1. A number of people have expressed tinfoil suspicions of me, and I did just derail the thread to force the town semi-cop to be lynched. Nutella's town case, as you've argued previously, is based on whether or not she has the role that people assume she has. There's been speculation about her otherwise.
Everyone on the planet was reading Epi as town because he was on the money and believable. I expected Epi or myself to die the last two nights.

Reasons I can read everyone as town:

Dragon D. Luffy - I have "mind-melded" with DDL on a couple of occasions, and he made one defensive post early on which read as highly emotional and passionate, the kind of thing I don't see being faked.
DrWilgy - Jay went after him hard.
dunya - Believable-as-heck tone, has put as much work as anyone into the thread despite numerous RL reasons not to.
Elohcin - She was Jay's top lynch priority on Day 3 when prompted to name any suspect at all. This would have to be a very aggressive bussing strategy for them to be teammates. This is also among the most involved games I've seen Elohcin play.
nijuukyugou - Finally a post from this player slot! Insertglorfblooper is town because there's no way two players fail to pick up a scum role card, right?
Kylemii - Believable tone. Has put a high volume of content into the thread without ever appearing seriously uncomfortable.
Long Con - He's a fearless scumster, but appears less involved than usual this game.
nutella - Possibly Everest. Helped kickstart the Jay bandwagon on Day 3.
Quin - I believe his tone, he aggressively defended Jay, and Jay may have been making a concerted effort to pocket Quin.
sig - Jay tried to lynch him.
Sloonei - Role card says so.
speedchuck - Similar to Long Con, though I have at times also felt like Speedchuck has presented some sincere thoughts and doubts in the thread.

I'd still like it if as many of us as are able could list reasons to read everybody as town. I have a reason for asking this, and the more people who do it, the more potentially useful the exercise is.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:55 pm I'm voting Wilgy for now.

I have no idea what cbob saw. Would welcome more theories. I'm beginning to assume it was two townies and that cbob just didn't really focus on it.

This is my assumption. A role like that is more likely to be borderline useless than useful. Not knowing which of the two reads you receive is true means not trusting either one, so no real information can be gained.

nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:38 pm Y'all are insane. Absolutely insane.

I know. I apologize.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:32 am Thanks for this Speedchuck.

Something that caught my eye was the "INH/BLP - uuuuuuh good." To your knowledge, did Cbob ever attempt or push an INH lynch?
"Mount Elbrus - Twice in the game, Elbrus may peek at another player’s alignment, though he will only learn the truth on one of these occasions."

It is possible that Elbrus checked INH but responded with "uuuuuuh" because he didn't know if he could trust his double edged sword result.

Linki - Interesting, I can toss that theory a bone. How was Cbob's interactions with Sloonei before and after the JJJ lynch?

He suspected me for a brief moment on Day 2, enough to cast a vote. After this is I turned on him and never dropped him as a suspect because I'm dumb. He registered me as a town read before the end of Night 2.

I do not put up 600+ posts and drown the thread in my obsessive cases when I'm scum. I am simply incapable of doing that.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:35 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:55 am I'll extend that question to everyone, about everyone. I think this could be a useful exercise: in a brief answer, what reason do you have to read each player remaining in this game as town?
I think if I were to propose an idea like this I would be jumped on and lynched. However, with the way things are going, maybe ruling out those we trust will help us lynch scum. I just don't know. Gut tells me this approach is coming FROM scum to distract us from looking at clues in posts from those who have died recently.

I assure you I have a good reason for asking this question.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:57 am and welcome nijuukyugou, thanks for stepping in. Do not worry about trying to read all of this nonsense. This is already the biggest speed game in syndicate history. It'll be pointless and counterproductive to attempt a catch up. Just hop right in and start telling us who seems honest or dishonest.
I don't know if this is the best advice. Seems kind of idd for you to tell her not to worry about reading any previous content. I mean, I don't expect her to read ALL the pages, but still.

she has to read some of the content. But I think it'd be a waste of time to try to read most or all of it at this point.

I'll extend that question to everyone, about everyone. I think this could be a useful exercise: in a brief answer, what reason do you have to read each player remaining in this game as town?

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:31 am RIP epi and welcome niju

Ugh I'm not feeling super confident about anything and would go along with whatever tbh. I'd vote for Sig, I'd vote for Quin, I'd maybe vote for Kyle, heck I'd even vote for Sloonei. LC and DDL I'm less inclined to suspect but I could be wrong.

what is the argument for each of these players you just named being town?

and welcome [mention]nijuukyugou[/mention], thanks for stepping in. Do not worry about trying to read all of this nonsense. This is already the biggest speed game in syndicate history. It'll be pointless and counterproductive to attempt a catch up. Just hop right in and start telling us who seems honest or dishonest.

K2 is on the same path as me. LC and DDL are players I'm feeling more skeptical of now. I took my vow to forget about this game seriously during the night, though. I've read nothing and it's too late for me to dive into anything serious right now. Placing a vote on Long Con for the time being. I'll do real work at some point tomorrow.

I still feel good about a handful of my town reads, but i'm down to zero confident scum reads. LC seems like an alright guess. Iffy on Quin but still leaning town. I could stand to give DDL another look. Kyle too. wilgy hasn't moved my town needle in a while.

i've been very wrong. I need to forget about this game for a little while.

i'm sorry bob.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:23 am Hey Sloonei. Not much. I had a notion that you were bad based on your behavior around the J3 lynch and the Malk lynch.

I remembered behavior that seemed like buddy-ing towards Malk and his flip revealed that it may have been the case.

I also recall you being a defactor during the J3 lynch.

Other than that, I haven't read much and feel like I'm hindering everyone. Sorry.

You are not hindering.
I did jump off the Jay lynch on day 3. That was for personal, non-game reasons.
I did defend Malakim at some points early in the suspicion against him. That was because I thought a particular argument against him was erroneous.
I've commandeered the game and forced everyone to lynch colonialbob today. I hope it was for the best.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:12 pm Woops...not chuck..sorry. you know what I mean

alright this might be the funnest mafia post i've ever read, context considered.

I thought the poll ended at 1:15. I have to wait 8 more minutes!?

oh hey wilgy, what's the deal with your whole thing?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:09 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:07 am I am a little anxious.
in terms of the game or just as a personality trait

A little of both. I also have trouble sleeping and enjoy getting lost in the woods, if we're in the part of the game where we get to know me now.

I am a little anxious.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:59 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:50 am An explanation of what prompted him to prefer a lynch of an inactive player to a player around whom there is substantial evidence, especially when he's committed himself to suspecting colonialbob in the last couple of hours, and also maybe an explanation of why he chose sig over INH if we're lucky.
Looking back I see he's touched on why he'd vote for sig today, but that was early Day 6 stuff. This is late Day 6 and votes matter.
I explained 90 percent of this in previous posts. And I haven't "committed" to anything. I'm also voting for self-preservation, if that needed to be said.

You expressed reasons to be suspicious of colonialbob.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:51 am hey quick question how the fuck do i change my auto correct settings so my phone will stop turning "were" into "we're"? it's bad enough i have to backtrack and turn all the auto-capitalized letters into lowercase. :/

I disabled autocorrect the day I got my phone and never looked back.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:00 am It's been hard going through so many posts and trying to read through Sloonei's posts omfg. Don't envy me.

I'm sorry you had to go through that.

An explanation of what prompted him to prefer a lynch of an inactive player to a player around whom there is substantial evidence, especially when he's committed himself to suspecting colonialbob in the last couple of hours, and also maybe an explanation of why he chose sig over INH if we're lucky.
Looking back I see he's touched on why he'd vote for sig today, but that was early Day 6 stuff. This is late Day 6 and votes matter.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:40 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:22 am @Quin why are you not voting for cbob at this moment?
Dunno. I will now.

this is not the answer I was looking for

[mention]Quin[/mention] why are you not voting for cbob at this moment?

I am opposed to lynching a low poster right now when more substantive options are on the table. INH and sig do represent a problem which will need to be dealt with prior to endgame.

[mention]insertnamehere[/mention] [mention]sig[/mention] If you're capable of making any posts at all, please do. It's too late to get caught up on everything that's been said in this thread, but you don't need to do that to be participants in this game. Just hop in and start making reads based on what you can see. Please? Is there even any point to making this plea?

I'd be inclined to follow up on Quin as a priority is cbob flips bad based on nutella's case.
I'd be inclined to continue prioritizing cbob until the end of time if anything else happens.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 am is that it? are votes not going to move? Cos I need to sleep guys.

My vote is set in stone

I feel like a black hole just sucking other people's votes into my vortex.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:27 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:20 am
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:17 am does anyone have a good reason why Quin and Bob can't be scumbuddies because I think they are
I haven't looked for this pattern in any way.
Well, I just did a search for Quin (heh heh heh) in Bob's ISO and I can absolutely see it. Yeah yeah confirmation bias and all, but it checks out.

care to explain?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:22 am
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:15 am @Epignosis if you switch back to Quin he'll be in the lead over sig.

still, hey @Long Con you could join us you know. remember last time I asked you to join me? yeah, it was a scum! :P
No. I trust Sloonei, and he has kept his foot on the gas regarding colonialbob. If he is bad and winning this game, it isn't on the back of a single lynch, and I want to give him a chance.

I am comfortable that you are voting Quin, however.

I take it my leadership has improved.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:21 am
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:18 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:12 am
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:54 pm @Sloonei

Spoiler: show
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:27 pm cbob thoughts incoming

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:36 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:13 pm

I actually was just looking at your ISO. The long exchange you had with Jack at least looked dissociative (if that wasn't a word before it is now) -- I don't think you look like tiny mountains together. That point has limited value at present with no flips but whatever it came to mind.

I am less perturbed by your early poop fling at Sloonei than I was with DDL given that yours came first and it didn't last. I suggested in my puke that I think Jack looks good, at least for the point I raised. Could you summarize your suspicion of him for me? I raised concerns with LC separately, mostly relating to his dealings with Epignosis.

Also I am not entirely clear on everything that transpired with regard to vote movement. I'll need some help on that before I can offer much insight, otherwise I'll see you after I check myself.
It's kinda meta. His posting early on reminded me of his play in the HCRealms/Syndicate crossover, where he kept going on meta tangents and shunting the thread away from actual reads. He was mafia that game, I called him out D1 and got NKed for it. But he's provided some reads since then, and while I don't entirely agree with him on say LC/Epi, his posts feel genuine enough that I'm fine with him now.
Jay asks colonialbob what his suspicions of Jack are. This whole exchange reads differently after you know Jay is scum. Is it distancing? I don't think so.

I noticed that Jay did that various times in this game to townies, because Jay was distracted and wanted to possibly build loose suspicions and cases he could expand and exaggerate on against townies (because if there's one thing Jay does good, it's bullshit). I can't see Scum Jay asking Scum Bob about building a case on Townie Jack.

First point against Bob being scum. First townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:37 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:46 pm

I did. And I answered it too, but I'm not sure why it's of interest to bob.
Because it's a weird grouping of reads and I wanted to know why you did it.

I didn't like this. I didn't understand how it was a weird grouping of reads. I did not see what colonialbob was seeing. I don't think the post is indicative of his alignment, I just didn't like it because it adds no value and kind of appears out of the blue for no reason other than....he was online when it occured? I don't see Bob commenting on everyone's lists--he specifically chose that one.

I don't like to subtract townie points for ambiguity alone, but I feel I have to with this one because I didn't like the defence.

First point for Bob being scum. First scum point for Bob.

Spoiler: show

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:30 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:17 am Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

@Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.
So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

Cbob prods Jay again for no other reason that to prod Jay. I can't see scum cbob asking scum Jay to elaborate on something that scum Jay was clearning Sloonei for and scum cbob wanted to prod further and (possibly) incriminate.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:38 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:34 am Moreover I think the low-poster lynch strategy is ideal under these conditions.
Explain please. I'm also curious why you're defending somebody you didn't seem to be fully onboard with as town.
same as above, he questions Jay on theories. At worst a scummy cbob would have just ignored Jay and tried to latch onto someone else. He was prodding hard as early as this, I don't see it as scum cbob with scum Jay.

Second point against Bob being scum. Second townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:11 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:08 am

also please elaborate on these reads.
Maybe a little tin-foily, but caused by Jack voting sprit instead of you (or more accurately, voting you then quickly changing votes). If he's civ, why not self-preserve? Sure he may rather vote sprit than you but if y'all are tied there's at least a 50% chance of losing town anyway. If he's mafia and you're civ, why not vote for self-preservation and hopefully get a civvie mislynch with a totally justifiable vote? But if you're w/w, his self-preservation vote doesn't buy him cred, the outcome for the team is the same either way, and by voting a third person there's a chance somebody switches and gives mafia a chance to avoid the lynch.

(This was my pre-flip analysis, not taking into account that apparently nobody can die this game)
more Sloonei prodding here, but I'm glad for this question because I like his reply. There's townie logic here. He is theorizing in a way that I think is townie-centric. I like the direction of his thoughts and suspicions. I feel they are genuine thoughts and not framing.

Third point against Bob being scum. Third townie point for Bob.

----

I'd like to say at this point it's frustrating reading cbob's ISO because it's a giant pile of fending off suspicion and accusations and answering sloonei. It reminds me a lot of what I endured in the Seinfeld game against JJJ (we were both town) and it limits a townie's efforts of actually being a contirbuting scum hunter because they have to spend all their time and energy explaining and reexplaining and making excuses. For the majority of of post Day 1 and Day 2, that's what cBob went though and it'll be really upset if it was all townie/townie action.

----

and then it's queue JJJ to break the Sloonei/cbob pattern

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:50 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:24 am

Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?
He threw out a case on Eloh, nobody followed out and somebody disagreed with it, he moved off Eloh but expressed he was still fine voting her. Similarly, his "I could end up on Epi." In my experience mafia often try to gain consensus on their votes and are less likely to stake bold voting positions.

(Keep in mind part of his defense was "this is normal play for me," but I've essentially never played with him before. I modded one game on another site that I think you ebbed up replacing him, I was only alive one cycle in Crossover (and maybe he was modding?), and CC123 is far from a normal game)

Trying to look at these encounters as w/w and reasoning how likely that is.

JJJ pops out again, and senses some frustration in scum partner cbob for all the heat he's getting and questions him more about Sloonei.

Is it possible? Sure. Do I personally find it likely Jay would do that, at that specific moment, creating this specific conversation itt on purpose? No, I don't.

I mean, Jay avoided several posts I made directed towards him. He could have easily avoided butting into a conversation where cBob was explaining himself to Sloonei in a heated exchange. The fact he didn't, meant he was in a way, enjoying this was happening imo.

Fourth point against Bob being scum. Fourth townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:28 am
nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:00 pm If I survive the night ( ) and find the time, I will ISO Cbob and determine how I feel -- he's sort of blended in for most of the game and has that problem of seeming active but still quite forgettable (I really didn't notice him/remember he was there until the end of day 2 with the sloonei stuff), so that's really not a good look, though I still think I generally got a slightly more civ vibe from him than from some others. I did like Sloonei's case, so I'm looking forward to seeing what else I find in his iso. I can be very guilty of confirmation bias when iso-ing though, so I'll try to be open-minded and look for both town tells and scum tells.
Feel like several players did. Gonna be honest (picking on your post here but several people have said this), I'm tired of the "active but forgettable" statement. How do I even defend against that? "Sorry, I'll try shouting more?" Picking out posts is fine (even if I very much disagree with several of Sloonei's criticisms) but vague accusation is vague.

Genuine frustration imho. I'll kind of answer this one for you cBob (because I've been there before), it's because you have to spend most of your game time feigning off accusations, over and over and over again, thus your actual new contributions become less than the defenses you are spending the bulk of your time making.

Fifth point against Bob being scum. Fifth townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:35 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:15 pm

I was not suspicious of Jack at the time. I was holding out hope that somebody would jump over to sprityo last second.
something witty about being suspicious of me not actually being open to changing my vote but then exhibiting the exact same behavior

Ok I'm done for the night. Will be pretty busy tomorrow so don't expect me until evening.

damn son. No townie points credited here, but I really hate it when someone accuses me of something because they want to find a scum in me, but end up doing that something late in the game themselves.

-------

at this point, cBob makes his GTH reads.

Let's look at things we know:

He named Jay good, Jay is bad.
He named Jack bad, while we aren't 100% certain there's a 90% chance Jack is good.
He named Daisy good, Daisy seems good.
He named Mesk bad, Mesk was good.
He named Dom bad, Dom was good.

Just leaving this out there. IMO, this is a townie GTH. Although I sent Jay a 5 min opinion on why I think GTH reads are useless, I'm going to play along and say this is a good thing. I won't credit him Townie points for it, because I have a principle to maintain and that is that I think GTH reads are useless

----------

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:29 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:07 pm

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.
Why the change?
I can't see scum cBob questioning someone who is finally trying to view him as town. I can see a townie cBob doing that. Indeed, a townie dunya often does that because even when people are town-reading you, you want to know why and how because everyone and anyone can be suspicious, even your supporters. This was on board questioning with his GTH reads -- he questions Jack, who he believes is more bad than good.

Sixth point against Bob being scum. Sixth townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:47 pm Seeing some very potential JJJ/quin links page 65. Also, did tripJ ever explain his late swap from Eloh back to Mesk?
I didn't quite like this abrupt post, but then again, things were happening, Jay's name was popping up.

The next post made me feel a bit better:

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:34 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:04 pm I'm also bothered by the lack of votes in this day.

If Jay is bad, it would make sense for there to be some counter-wagon by now (maybe Wilgy is the counter wagon?). And I don't like how everyone who is voting for Jay is someone I'm currently townreading (well there is Jack, but I like current Jack more than Day 1 Jack so i'm still on the fence about him). Maybe mafia is just watching from afar, since the civs are doing their dirty work for them. So they don't need to expose themselves, by making bussing too obvious or risking discussion going against them.
Still catching up but had to comment on this. Jay seems a pretty obvious target for today - if he is bad he seems a better candidate for bussing than saving, especially considering his availability.

He was the first person to mention the bussing scenario. I like it. I feel it was authentic townie. I don't award people the same level of townie points who made the same observation after him.

Seventh point against Bob being scum. Seventh townie point for Bob.

-------

Next is the Jay lynching episode. There are way too many posts to quote, but post JJJ flip, is definitely Townie cBob making analysis on voting pattern. I realize a lot of people can argue this is all possible bussing, so I won't award any townie points but I feel it was a townie effort for the whole.

-------

I have to stop here for now.

I want to share what I have this far in. I just have way too much school work, sorry, guys. I'll try to finish cBob, but I think you get the gist of my read on him.

Thanks. I share your hesitation regarding those Jay/Bob dialogues earlier in the game. They've been my main hangup. But what keeps me from turning Bob into a town read as a result of them is the person on the other side of those dialogues: Jay. I expect him to have conversations like that with his teammates indiscriminately when he's bad. He knows what associations (or lack thereof) townies are looking for when they go hunting. And, while I'm not tremendously familiar with Bob as an individual, I have spent some time with other HCRealms players (Jack and Malakim are two others here in this game with us), and I see no reason to believe that an intricate strategy like this would be beyond the grasp of one of their players. Bob seems to know how to handle himself generally within the game of Mafia.

I also give him no credit for potentially being the first to publicly acknowledge that Jay was a prime bus candidate on Day 4. I don't know whether that distinction is truly his or not, but it is something that was obvious, I think, and one of his teammates surely would have been clued into this even more than a townie.

I'm deep in the tunnel. I've never experienced a suspicion like this one before. Usually when I make this much noise about a player I eventually change my mind or one of us ends up dead. I've been screaming about Bob for a week now and we're both still here. I'm not sure I can turn off this read, and I'm not sure I want to. I firmly believe he's not a big mountain.
You are certainly a bigger town read for me than cBob. I almost want to lynch him now so you can get your focus off him. I feel bad because I still think he's town, but I do understand Jay's capabilities of leaving a trail of crumbs for us to misinterpret as well... I don't know.
I've moved to cBob. I was wrong about Jack. I think a cBob flip is better than a sig flip (INH...I'd be willing to lynch).

Sorry if you're town cBob. But I think sometimes townies have to be less stubborn and try another townie's beliefs.

why exactly are you voting for him?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:17 am does anyone have a good reason why Quin and Bob can't be scumbuddies because I think they are

I haven't looked for this pattern in any way.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:16 am oh interesting bob switched back. iiiinteresting

what's interesting?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:13 am I leave you punks alone for 2 hours and now we've got a 3 way tie :\

break the tie with a vote for colonialbob

okay that won't break it, but vote for him anyway.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:54 pm @Sloonei

Spoiler: show
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:27 pm cbob thoughts incoming

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:36 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:13 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:03 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:36 pm Everyone should tell me what things in this thread you feel are most important/most warrant my attention and discussion among those I didn't just address.
I'd be interested in thoughts on me/jack/LC. Also the vote swapping from Epi to Nutella
I actually was just looking at your ISO. The long exchange you had with Jack at least looked dissociative (if that wasn't a word before it is now) -- I don't think you look like tiny mountains together. That point has limited value at present with no flips but whatever it came to mind.

I am less perturbed by your early poop fling at Sloonei than I was with DDL given that yours came first and it didn't last. I suggested in my puke that I think Jack looks good, at least for the point I raised. Could you summarize your suspicion of him for me? I raised concerns with LC separately, mostly relating to his dealings with Epignosis.

Also I am not entirely clear on everything that transpired with regard to vote movement. I'll need some help on that before I can offer much insight, otherwise I'll see you after I check myself.
It's kinda meta. His posting early on reminded me of his play in the HCRealms/Syndicate crossover, where he kept going on meta tangents and shunting the thread away from actual reads. He was mafia that game, I called him out D1 and got NKed for it. But he's provided some reads since then, and while I don't entirely agree with him on say LC/Epi, his posts feel genuine enough that I'm fine with him now.
Jay asks colonialbob what his suspicions of Jack are. This whole exchange reads differently after you know Jay is scum. Is it distancing? I don't think so.

I noticed that Jay did that various times in this game to townies, because Jay was distracted and wanted to possibly build loose suspicions and cases he could expand and exaggerate on against townies (because if there's one thing Jay does good, it's bullshit). I can't see Scum Jay asking Scum Bob about building a case on Townie Jack.

First point against Bob being scum. First townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:37 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:46 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:42 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:40 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:53 pm
This... is a darn good question.
Is it?
You said you'd be willing to answer questions.
I did. And I answered it too, but I'm not sure why it's of interest to bob.
Because it's a weird grouping of reads and I wanted to know why you did it.

I didn't like this. I didn't understand how it was a weird grouping of reads. I did not see what colonialbob was seeing. I don't think the post is indicative of his alignment, I just didn't like it because it adds no value and kind of appears out of the blue for no reason other than....he was online when it occured? I don't see Bob commenting on everyone's lists--he specifically chose that one.

I don't like to subtract townie points for ambiguity alone, but I feel I have to with this one because I didn't like the defence.

First point for Bob being scum. First scum point for Bob.

Spoiler: show

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:30 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:17 am Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

@Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.
So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

Cbob prods Jay again for no other reason that to prod Jay. I can't see scum cbob asking scum Jay to elaborate on something that scum Jay was clearning Sloonei for and scum cbob wanted to prod further and (possibly) incriminate.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:38 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:34 am Moreover I think the low-poster lynch strategy is ideal under these conditions.
Explain please. I'm also curious why you're defending somebody you didn't seem to be fully onboard with as town.
same as above, he questions Jay on theories. At worst a scummy cbob would have just ignored Jay and tried to latch onto someone else. He was prodding hard as early as this, I don't see it as scum cbob with scum Jay.

Second point against Bob being scum. Second townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:11 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:08 am
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:01 am Interested to see this flip, I'm like 50/50 that Jack and Sloons are w/w
also please elaborate on these reads.
Maybe a little tin-foily, but caused by Jack voting sprit instead of you (or more accurately, voting you then quickly changing votes). If he's civ, why not self-preserve? Sure he may rather vote sprit than you but if y'all are tied there's at least a 50% chance of losing town anyway. If he's mafia and you're civ, why not vote for self-preservation and hopefully get a civvie mislynch with a totally justifiable vote? But if you're w/w, his self-preservation vote doesn't buy him cred, the outcome for the team is the same either way, and by voting a third person there's a chance somebody switches and gives mafia a chance to avoid the lynch.

(This was my pre-flip analysis, not taking into account that apparently nobody can die this game)
more Sloonei prodding here, but I'm glad for this question because I like his reply. There's townie logic here. He is theorizing in a way that I think is townie-centric. I like the direction of his thoughts and suspicions. I feel they are genuine thoughts and not framing.

Third point against Bob being scum. Third townie point for Bob.

----

I'd like to say at this point it's frustrating reading cbob's ISO because it's a giant pile of fending off suspicion and accusations and answering sloonei. It reminds me a lot of what I endured in the Seinfeld game against JJJ (we were both town) and it limits a townie's efforts of actually being a contirbuting scum hunter because they have to spend all their time and energy explaining and reexplaining and making excuses. For the majority of of post Day 1 and Day 2, that's what cBob went though and it'll be really upset if it was all townie/townie action.

----

and then it's queue JJJ to break the Sloonei/cbob pattern

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:50 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:24 am
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:28 am That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.
Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?
He threw out a case on Eloh, nobody followed out and somebody disagreed with it, he moved off Eloh but expressed he was still fine voting her. Similarly, his "I could end up on Epi." In my experience mafia often try to gain consensus on their votes and are less likely to stake bold voting positions.

(Keep in mind part of his defense was "this is normal play for me," but I've essentially never played with him before. I modded one game on another site that I think you ebbed up replacing him, I was only alive one cycle in Crossover (and maybe he was modding?), and CC123 is far from a normal game)

Trying to look at these encounters as w/w and reasoning how likely that is.

JJJ pops out again, and senses some frustration in scum partner cbob for all the heat he's getting and questions him more about Sloonei.

Is it possible? Sure. Do I personally find it likely Jay would do that, at that specific moment, creating this specific conversation itt on purpose? No, I don't.

I mean, Jay avoided several posts I made directed towards him. He could have easily avoided butting into a conversation where cBob was explaining himself to Sloonei in a heated exchange. The fact he didn't, meant he was in a way, enjoying this was happening imo.

Fourth point against Bob being scum. Fourth townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:28 am
nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:00 pm If I survive the night ( ) and find the time, I will ISO Cbob and determine how I feel -- he's sort of blended in for most of the game and has that problem of seeming active but still quite forgettable (I really didn't notice him/remember he was there until the end of day 2 with the sloonei stuff), so that's really not a good look, though I still think I generally got a slightly more civ vibe from him than from some others. I did like Sloonei's case, so I'm looking forward to seeing what else I find in his iso. I can be very guilty of confirmation bias when iso-ing though, so I'll try to be open-minded and look for both town tells and scum tells.
Feel like several players did. Gonna be honest (picking on your post here but several people have said this), I'm tired of the "active but forgettable" statement. How do I even defend against that? "Sorry, I'll try shouting more?" Picking out posts is fine (even if I very much disagree with several of Sloonei's criticisms) but vague accusation is vague.

Genuine frustration imho. I'll kind of answer this one for you cBob (because I've been there before), it's because you have to spend most of your game time feigning off accusations, over and over and over again, thus your actual new contributions become less than the defenses you are spending the bulk of your time making.

Fifth point against Bob being scum. Fifth townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:35 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:15 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:12 pm Sloonei, why didn't you vote for Jack when it became apparent a sprityo lynch was unlikely to happen?
I was not suspicious of Jack at the time. I was holding out hope that somebody would jump over to sprityo last second.
something witty about being suspicious of me not actually being open to changing my vote but then exhibiting the exact same behavior

Ok I'm done for the night. Will be pretty busy tomorrow so don't expect me until evening.

damn son. No townie points credited here, but I really hate it when someone accuses me of something because they want to find a scum in me, but end up doing that something late in the game themselves.

-------

at this point, cBob makes his GTH reads.

Let's look at things we know:

He named Jay good, Jay is bad.
He named Jack bad, while we aren't 100% certain there's a 90% chance Jack is good.
He named Daisy good, Daisy seems good.
He named Mesk bad, Mesk was good.
He named Dom bad, Dom was good.

Just leaving this out there. IMO, this is a townie GTH. Although I sent Jay a 5 min opinion on why I think GTH reads are useless, I'm going to play along and say this is a good thing. I won't credit him Townie points for it, because I have a principle to maintain and that is that I think GTH reads are useless

----------

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:29 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:07 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:00 pm At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?
There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.
Why the change?
I can't see scum cBob questioning someone who is finally trying to view him as town. I can see a townie cBob doing that. Indeed, a townie dunya often does that because even when people are town-reading you, you want to know why and how because everyone and anyone can be suspicious, even your supporters. This was on board questioning with his GTH reads -- he questions Jack, who he believes is more bad than good.

Sixth point against Bob being scum. Sixth townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:47 pm Seeing some very potential JJJ/quin links page 65. Also, did tripJ ever explain his late swap from Eloh back to Mesk?
I didn't quite like this abrupt post, but then again, things were happening, Jay's name was popping up.

The next post made me feel a bit better:

Spoiler: show
colonialbob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:34 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:04 pm I'm also bothered by the lack of votes in this day.

If Jay is bad, it would make sense for there to be some counter-wagon by now (maybe Wilgy is the counter wagon?). And I don't like how everyone who is voting for Jay is someone I'm currently townreading (well there is Jack, but I like current Jack more than Day 1 Jack so i'm still on the fence about him). Maybe mafia is just watching from afar, since the civs are doing their dirty work for them. So they don't need to expose themselves, by making bussing too obvious or risking discussion going against them.
Still catching up but had to comment on this. Jay seems a pretty obvious target for today - if he is bad he seems a better candidate for bussing than saving, especially considering his availability.

He was the first person to mention the bussing scenario. I like it. I feel it was authentic townie. I don't award people the same level of townie points who made the same observation after him.

Seventh point against Bob being scum. Seventh townie point for Bob.

-------

Next is the Jay lynching episode. There are way too many posts to quote, but post JJJ flip, is definitely Townie cBob making analysis on voting pattern. I realize a lot of people can argue this is all possible bussing, so I won't award any townie points but I feel it was a townie effort for the whole.

-------

I have to stop here for now.

I want to share what I have this far in. I just have way too much school work, sorry, guys. I'll try to finish cBob, but I think you get the gist of my read on him.

Thanks. I share your hesitation regarding those Jay/Bob dialogues earlier in the game. They've been my main hangup. But what keeps me from turning Bob into a town read as a result of them is the person on the other side of those dialogues: Jay. I expect him to have conversations like that with his teammates indiscriminately when he's bad. He knows what associations (or lack thereof) townies are looking for when they go hunting. And, while I'm not tremendously familiar with Bob as an individual, I have spent some time with other HCRealms players (Jack and Malakim are two others here in this game with us), and I see no reason to believe that an intricate strategy like this would be beyond the grasp of one of their players. Bob seems to know how to handle himself generally within the game of Mafia.

I also give him no credit for potentially being the first to publicly acknowledge that Jay was a prime bus candidate on Day 4. I don't know whether that distinction is truly his or not, but it is something that was obvious, I think, and one of his teammates surely would have been clued into this even more than a townie.

I'm deep in the tunnel. I've never experienced a suspicion like this one before. Usually when I make this much noise about a player I eventually change my mind or one of us ends up dead. I've been screaming about Bob for a week now and we're both still here. I'm not sure I can turn off this read, and I'm not sure I want to. I firmly believe he's not a big mountain.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:38 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:15 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:10 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:21 pm I don't like this sequence.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:16 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 pm Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.
Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:43 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:30 pm I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.
I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.
Voting Eloh because he wants Epi's thoughts, that's all? But then he's willing to vote there immediately after taking his vote off? Smells off.
I hate this. He acts like Sloonei's contradicted himself somewhere in that voting period. Also, even though he seems likely to vote either Sloonei or Jack, he barely weighs in his thoughts on Jack at all on Day 2 to decide which lynch is best. Claims Jack and Sloonei are likely w/w later though.
This was where the suspicion was born. Epi and Eloh were already on me, and then Bob seized onto this like it was damning evidence and didn't let go for the rest of the phase.
colonialbob, would you be able to take us back to this moment and walk us through what was going on in your mind?
You voted for a player to get a different player's reaction to them, then moved your vote while saying you could go back. To me that seemed like tacitly inviting somebody to 'convince' you back onto Eloh. As scum it lets you throw a name out there and get some townie focus on it while not really looking like the person who led a mislynch if it goes somewhere. I believe I explained this previously.

You did, but this conversation is happening right now and I like things to be fresh and present for everyone involved.
what do you have to say about Quin's argument that your justification "changed" rather than "evolved" after I corrected a mistaken observation you made?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:45 pm Long Con is voting sig because he misread my post about sig.

dunya is voting sig because she is a softie who can't help herself (she's voting to save Quin and thinks bob is good). And then there's Quin.

I have to go to bed soon. If I'm not satisfied with a reason to vote elsewhere, my vote goes back to Quin or stays on colonialbob.

stay.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:47 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:27 am I'd argue that the climate in the thread was very clearly anti-Jay as we approached the deadline yesterday. Your vote may have put him over the top, but I don't find that to be a tremendously convincing fact given that he was clearly the most widely-suspected player and votes were beginning to pile on him.
I don't think that's a fair representation. At the time where bob placed his vote on Jay, there was someone else in the lead.

I know there's a case to be made for bussing, but I don't think this was a case of it. The votes at that specific point could have gone either way I think.

I always felt like Jay's lynch was inevitable on Day 4. I've been reading that whole day as a careful attempt by him and his teammates to put as much space between themselves as they could manage without causing him to fall unnecessarily. Bob's behavior that day is the closest I observed to matching that pattern.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:55 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:24 am Apologies, but I was only looking for your posts regarding Jay in that ISO. However, my questions are here are meant to be about why you specifically vote for speedchuck rather than Jay, because from what I saw you had every reason to vote for Jay but only ended up moving to him because you preferred the voters against him to the voters against speedchuck. I want to know how your thoughts developed during the day phase, if that helps.
again, I feel like you were being a bit pushy here. In your long Jay/Bob iso you clearly say that while bob prodded Jay on numerous occasions, there was no heavy scum read from Bob to Jay. Why did he have "every reason to vote for Jay" then? I think that's a bit of a hyperbole. Perhaps he didn't have any more valid reasons to vote for speedchuck, but he did. That doesn't mean he didn't suspect speedchuck along with everyone else who had a vote on speed at that point.

Here's the progression I followed when I said he had "every reason to vote for Jay":

Spoiler: show

These posts establish a basis for beginning to suspect Jay. He's not come out to declare a full-blown suspicion, but he is making observations which point to reading negative points against him. He continues:

Spoiler: show

A vote for Kyle because he "doesn't want to tunnel on JJJ early in the phase." A legitimate caution that I do not fault a player for, but it's easy for me to also read this as a scum player acknowledging a case against their teammate and leaving the door open to pursue that lynch if the avenue becomes preferable without immediately committing to it.

Spoiler: show

Jay is "a pretty obvious target today". Not sure if that "obvious" refers to Jay being an obvious person to suspect (ie, jay is scum on toast) or "obvious" as in "it's rather obvious people are going to vote for Jay regardless of his alignment", but this still reads as further basis for Bob to vote for Jay, though he's not yet committed himself personally to the endeavor.
He votes for speedchuck. Chuck E. Speed and wilgy were the two counterwagons to Jay that day. I don't aim to discredit bob for this, I'm just posting here for the record. The following is what I aim to discredit him for:

Spoiler: show

Despite all the previously highlighted evidence for which Bob could attribute a vote for Jay, in the critical moment of Bob's vote the best he could muster was that the people who were voting for Jay looked better than the people who were voting for Speedchuck. This does not look like an authentic justification for his vote. This is what I meant when I said he had "every reason to vote for Jay"; it was not that he had no reason to vote for Speedchuck instead of Jay, it's that he had expressed more than once that Jay was a player who could be voted for based on in-thread evidence, but he cited none of this when it came time to actually vote for him. It strikes me as incongruous to the rest of his posts that day, and a soft vote which he's since used as armor against suspicion.

If you had more to say about my bob case that I've overlooked, dunya, please let me know and I'll try to respond.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:10 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:21 pm I don't like this sequence.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:16 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 pm Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.
Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:43 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:30 pm I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.
I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.
Voting Eloh because he wants Epi's thoughts, that's all? But then he's willing to vote there immediately after taking his vote off? Smells off.
I hate this. He acts like Sloonei's contradicted himself somewhere in that voting period. Also, even though he seems likely to vote either Sloonei or Jack, he barely weighs in his thoughts on Jack at all on Day 2 to decide which lynch is best. Claims Jack and Sloonei are likely w/w later though.

This was where the suspicion was born. Epi and Eloh were already on me, and then Bob seized onto this like it was damning evidence and didn't let go for the rest of the phase.
[mention]colonialbob[/mention], would you be able to take us back to this moment and walk us through what was going on in your mind?

Colonialbob voted for me Day 2 because I went from explaing why I had moved my vote off of Elohcin in one post to expressing a willingness to move said vote back to her in the next post.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:43 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:37 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:33 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:31 pm Quin is town. Colonialbob is not town. If both these statements are false I will eat my Marmot hat.
I need a good reason to change my vote. You are strong in your assessment. I don't have an opinion of colonialbob.

I will change if you can convince me to do so. You will, of course, need more than that.

As you can see, though, I have a very poor opinion of Quin.
Is there anything more I can really say about bob? He seems like a great guy, all things considered. His alignment in this game just doesn't seem good to me. I've written extensively about why I feel this way.
did you at least skim through my post? I know it's not going to change your mind, but still. I spent a lot of time typing it out

I will give it a thorough investigation before the day is over.

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