The Syndicate

I figured that now. But I spent the first couple phases wondering if I was a latent cop or something.

I thought DH was the indie and Nutella was his recruit. Cool.

Also I have a question, INH. My role card said that I was "currently a vanilla civ". What did this mean?

This was a cool game. I'm sorry I couldn't be more active until the very end.

Kill me

I want to see how this mutiny thing plays out

Epi appealed to speedchuck and I via PM after DH and Nutella publicly declared their intentions. I can't picture Epi doing something like this unless he's 100% earnest about it. That is why I'm voting for Long Con. Plus roleclaim stuff.

Voting for DH could potentially return Nutella to us, and we'd still easily have the numbers to lynch Long Con tomorrow.

So Long Con is playing a game of "You Can't Win"?

I mean you can't win with a mafia member remaining, and he has the power to kill you at any time. Right?

I am confused about the mechanisms of DharmaHelper's proposed win condition. How is this all supposed to work?

Voting Long Con because we're not really even playing mafia anymore.

let's also talk about nutella when we're all awake

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:14 am But if you were mafia, you were hardly going to claim Indie or possible recruit. What I'm saying is your answer to the claim question was a given, and holds really no weight.

Fair enough. It's my role.

I don't like claiming either, but I was asked so I answered. At this stage it's not so harmful to lay all our cards on the table.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:49 am What good does a role claim do, by the way?

Not much. But if we assume LC is indie then we just have you and nutella left to claim now. If the two of you claim then we'll have a contradiction somewhere. So what good does not roleclaiming do?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:25 am How about we make this easy, Sloonei.

What role are you?

TR Gordon

SVS interactions with/about DharmaHelper:Mentions him in a batch of player salad, calling him an unlikely suspect. Could be soft defense, but I do not get as much of that vibe here as I did in her 2 Nutella-related posts.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:28 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:20 pmWhacky.

Indeed. Wacky enough that I think I am going to vote for Wilgy at this time. Becasue either what he said to me was true (and it was predicated on him thinking I was a baddie) and if so he was trying to make something bad happen, or it was not true, but I don't see why he would say what he said if it were not true. I could see no benefit to it for him.

If anyone has any info on this, I would like to know what it is.

*Voting Wilgy*

Takes a prompt from DH to cast a vote for Wilgy on Day 1. I don't sense anything sinister here, and if anything the casual, throwaway nature of this exchange looks to me like two players who are not involved in any sort of pairing together. Weak read, but slightly in DH's favor. I may just have tunnel vision turned on.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:48 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:44 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:16 pm Does anyone in here have BTSC with Wilgy?

I got an odd message from him. I am not sure I want to put it out there what he said since it could be helpful to the baddies if it is true. But if it isn't, then I would like to know about it since it would seem to be trap directed at me.

Does anyone know anything about an odd message Wilgy might have sent me? Or did any of you get an odd message from Wilgy?

Linki, Who's a good boy???

Seems you got real sure real quick there, SVS.

I am sure. What he told me would happen would benefit the baddies. I think that was pretty obvious?

This is the most substantial exchange I can find between the two of them in SVS's posts, and it looks good for DH again. He calls her out on a potential slip up, and her responses looks a little bit uneasy.

SVS mentioned nutella twice:

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:17 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:14 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:11 pm Again, you don't know what he said to me. If it is true, he is not good for the town.

what if it's not true?

I have no idea why he would lie about this. And the way he reacted to me going right to the thread did not lead me to think it was not true.

I feel surest about a lynch of Wilgy today. Just like you feel surest about Nutella, although I am not sure I agree with you. This is based on what he said to me, and then how he reacted and what he said after I put it to the thread.

I will happily talk about what he said to me when he is gone, and indeed, I have already told one person.

Goes out of her way to slip a comment in about not agreeing with my Day 1 vote for Nutella.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:15 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:28 amWazzup?

Not much apparently. Bye Sprit.

I am not going to mutiny, it will be more interesting to watch the effects on someone else

I am going to reread Day zero/one. I felt pretty good about Dizzy, and want to make sure I still do and want to look again at peoples reasons for voting her. Same goes for Nutella. She seems fairly average Nutella who always seems shady but isn't. I was fairly focused on her and her bad partner in the crossover game, and think I have a fairly good feel for her current bad game, and I am not sure I see it here, but I want to take a second look.

She was pretty opportunistic there, and picked up and dropped suspicions regardless of logic.

I am also going to look back over some of the things Wilgy said to me.

Hints at the possibility of suspecting Nutella, but quickly adds a soft defense in the same breath.

llama never mentioned nutella, i don't think.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:58 am I won't vote you without due process. I can promise that much.

it's not you i'm worried about.

pretend i formatted that properly

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:54 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:47 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:31 am nutella knew timmer was the llama killer.

Her team didn't kill timmer until after it was obvious that timmer was the llama killer (way to go nutella- we do good work).

Explain to me why nutella would hold off on killer timmer with this information.

How do you know she knew this?

How would I not know? She called me a liar when I claimed to have killed llama.

I still have not read this portion of the thread, but I don't see her potential knowledge about timmer's role as a liberating factor in her favor.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:47 amAlso you refused to vote for SVS on the basis of what you supposed her scum strategy would be.

But, to take a swing at the question, perhaps they figured timmer was a limited shooter, or felt safe that he would at least not be killing either of them soon. Or they just weren't paying that much attention (remember that Rico kill analysis you did earlier in the game?) and overlooked it because meh.

I didn't "refuse" to vote S~V~S.

I didn't vote her because I suspected Dyslexicon more. Additionally, I have never before encountered a relatively inactive S~V~S, and she didn't fall for Wilgy's ruse. I regarded that latter fact in her favor.
[/quote]You expressed a disinclination toward voting for SVS, citing your beliefs about what her scum response to Wilgy's chaos maneuvering would have been as a reason not to vote her. You were not correct in this instance. I was, toot toot. Finding ourselves in a similar situation again regarding Nutella, I am forced to recall this prior episode.

I get that I'm on the POE short list. That's cool. But please don't lynch me without first looking for substantive reasons that point to me as scum. If I get lynched and the reason amounts to nothing more than a shrug at the numbers, I'll be annoyed and disheartened. If you guys do your homework and conclude that I'm bad, I'll be angry and perplexed, but at least it will have been a good fair mafia game.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:03 am The last scum is currently voting for me.

nutella is voting for me as well, DH. One of the two of you is the last scum. This is what I meant. I am assuming Epi's role is more or less verified because that seems to be the attitude in the thread.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:31 am nutella knew timmer was the llama killer.

Her team didn't kill timmer until after it was obvious that timmer was the llama killer (way to go nutella- we do good work).

Explain to me why nutella would hold off on killer timmer with this information.

How do you know she knew this?

Also you refused to vote for SVS on the basis of what you supposed her scum strategy would be.

But, to take a swing at the question, perhaps they figured timmer was a limited shooter, or felt safe that he would at least not be killing either of them soon. Or they just weren't paying that much attention (remember that Rico kill analysis you did earlier in the game?) and overlooked it because meh.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:35 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:22 am voting for nutella

"DH Is the last scum, but I won't be voting for someone I think is scum"

Said the last mafia

what

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:34 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:52 am What do you think of this Dyslexicon/Long Con/Epignosis drama Nutella? Do you find anyone caught up in it suspicious?

Nah, not particularly.

I haven't really seen much reason to suspect anyone yet. As it usually goes on day ones. I'm always wary of Wilgy when he's cryptic like this though. Gonna throw a vote on him just to pick someone (just realized we only have a few hours left and I don't want to miss it)

Not a fan of this Day 1 vote at all either. "I don't know what to do, I see that Wilgy's being his usual self and painting an easy target on his back, so I guess I'll vote for him." I liked none of the Wilgy wagon (sorry for not having much to say at the time). SVS drove the wagon home, and it would not surprise me if she had some help from her teammate here.

Then there's also posts like these: These posts are reflective of a problem I'm seeing throughout nutella's posts right now: she is more passive/less aggressive than I am used to seeing her. There does not seem to be a whole lot of independent case-making. She's reacting a lot to what other people are saying, commenting that she agrees with things or likes theories (or that she is "baffled" by the llama push on Day 1). This has the feel of a scum player whose primary goal is to nudge town players toward certain favorable lynches.

And now that I have caught up a little bit and looked at her posts in full, I feel even less inspired by her responses to my questions yesterday. It still appears that she genuinely failed to list Epi as a POE suspect at a time when she was also accusing him of being caught in a lie. Her refusal to comment on this as I questioned her further just seems like she is avoiding having to explain herself rather than any beneficial strategy. Also, when I first asked her to explain her POE reads he response was "POE is pretty self-explanatory." I thought it was pretty clear that I was asking for substantial reads on players but she, again, avoided answering that.

I owe DH an inspection as well, but I see plenty of stuff in Nutella's posts that compels me to vote for her.

voting for nutella

Ctrl + F "SVS" in nutella's posts: Nothing comes up until Day 4. Hm.
Ctrl + F "llama" and this is the first post that comes up:

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:33 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:42 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:51 am Hm. I believe LC and Dys are telling truths.

Why?

Just because. They sound legit. I buy LC's story about assuming LMS with a vanilla role. Your assessment of that makes sense as well. He could be an actually LMS role, but that seems much less likely.

And I suppose I've been misguided in reading Dys before, but I'm really only getting genuine town vibes so far. Except I'm pretty baffled by her strong desire to lynch llama (which rico seems to agree with inexplicably). Why lynch llama, what's the reasoning?

I didn't like "Just because" as an answer to my Day 1 question at the time, and looking at the bottom paragraph now is tremendously sirengify. Tiptoes carefully over to the llama scrutiny to ask a question and act all defensively.

Someone tell me why nutella should be read as town.

The last scum is currently voting for me.

Who is everybody else?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:14 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:12 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:05 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:03 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:59 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:51 pm I feel like voting for Epignosis.

Why? I don't. He's Mike; that role's existence is confirmed now.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:56 pm The independent throws a wrinkle into my reads. Hm.

Indeed. This is all very interesting.

But guess what? I think you, speedchuck, are the last member of the mafia.

because i am still unaware of his role claiming shenanigans. If he has a confirmed role then voting for him is silly. But the vote was just a way of showing that I'm awaiting his re-read of my posts. I'll gonfor uh DharmaHelper then. Because why not?

Because fuck you that's why not.

Why did you vote for me yesterday?

Cuz it is increasingly likely you're the last of the mafia.

Walk me through this thought process.

Why is speedchuck the best vote, nutella?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:05 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:03 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:59 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:51 pm I feel like voting for Epignosis.

Why? I don't. He's Mike; that role's existence is confirmed now.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:56 pm The independent throws a wrinkle into my reads. Hm.

Indeed. This is all very interesting.

But guess what? I think you, speedchuck, are the last member of the mafia.

because i am still unaware of his role claiming shenanigans. If he has a confirmed role then voting for him is silly. But the vote was just a way of showing that I'm awaiting his re-read of my posts. I'll gonfor uh DharmaHelper then. Because why not?

Because fuck you that's why not.

Why did you vote for me yesterday?

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:59 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:51 pm I feel like voting for Epignosis.

Why? I don't. He's Mike; that role's existence is confirmed now.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:56 pm The independent throws a wrinkle into my reads. Hm.

Indeed. This is all very interesting.

But guess what? I think you, speedchuck, are the last member of the mafia.

because i am still unaware of his role claiming shenanigans. If he has a confirmed role then voting for him is silly. But the vote was just a way of showing that I'm awaiting his re-read of my posts. I'll gonfor uh DharmaHelper then. Because why not?

I feel like voting for Epignosis.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:23 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:50 pm Does epi trust me now?

No.

Why not?

Does epi trust me now?

Hot diggity daffodil

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:09 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:01 pm a 3 way tie in a two person lynch

Epignosis you madman

Madman? No.

I don't trust Sloonei or Long Con. I don't distrust S~V~S, although I do struggle to understand why she isn't being helpful. Given that Wilgy tried to fish a kill out of her, and he didn't get one, I'd say that makes S~V~S look pretty good.

Why do you not trust me?

Quin is the only other player I feel I have a sufficient enough case against to justify a vote. I think I'll leave it on SVS, as she is my preferred second choice.

Does anybody have a compelling argument as to why I should move my vote off of SVS? I'll be at work for the last few hours of this phase, so I don't have much time to finalize my vote.

G-man was not mentioned in my issue of the PM.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:19 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:16 am Another note about the PM wilgy sent me: he said he'd also shared things with DH and Speedchuck. He said if Speedchuck went after SVS (in the aftermath lf Day 1), then he is bad. He noted that he was wary of DH for doing nothing with whatever information wilgy shared with him.

Wilgy's PM was sent out to multiple people, and he changed the name(s) depending on who he sent it to.

It was a misdirection.

This is fun. I assumed he had sent similar messages to other people, but I also trusted that there was at least some truth in it somewhere. Should I assume everyone has already talked about these things?

Another note about the PM wilgy sent me: he said he'd also shared things with DH and Speedchuck. He said if Speedchuck went after SVS (in the aftermath lf Day 1), then he is bad. He noted that he was wary of DH for doing nothing with whatever information wilgy shared with him.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:15 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:13 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:05 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:52 pm Does anyone have a cliffnotes list of reasons to suspect speedchuck? I ask this more for the sake of discussion than my own attempts to catch up.

Laziness.
Buddying.
Not voting for Llama even when DH did.

DH is about halfway down my list because all he's done to make himself look town is go after Llama. Bussing is pretty common where I come from. The mafia kills in this game have been quality-of-life kills. Kills that make the game more talkative, better. DH is having fun, I might could see him doing this (until phase 2 starts). It doesn't seem like anyone has genuinely put up any investigating toward DH.

Still, the llama push is pretty convincing. Good push I guess. Of course, Llama didn't die when lynched...

Anyway, there's that. And good job keeping me from following you, DH. I'm lazy and in fun mode, but not to the point of self-voting.

As for you, sloonei, I thought epic made some decent points, but I'm still not putting you much lower than SVS or Quin. The bottom three on my list are about even, and are very lazily non-controversial. I like things that way.

And you guy have an auto-rainbow tool? That's fantastic!

Cool.

There does seem to be a part of you that is coasting off the goodwill you built up from lynching llama. You don't seem to have a confident read on who his teammates might be though. Does this worry you at all?

Coasting? I mentioned it once.

While sitting back, not getting your hands dirty. Look at me, criticizing active players after i did shit for an entire week

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:13 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:05 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:52 pm Does anyone have a cliffnotes list of reasons to suspect speedchuck? I ask this more for the sake of discussion than my own attempts to catch up.

Laziness.
Buddying.
Not voting for Llama even when DH did.

DH is about halfway down my list because all he's done to make himself look town is go after Llama. Bussing is pretty common where I come from. The mafia kills in this game have been quality-of-life kills. Kills that make the game more talkative, better. DH is having fun, I might could see him doing this (until phase 2 starts). It doesn't seem like anyone has genuinely put up any investigating toward DH.

Still, the llama push is pretty convincing. Good push I guess. Of course, Llama didn't die when lynched...

Anyway, there's that. And good job keeping me from following you, DH. I'm lazy and in fun mode, but not to the point of self-voting.

As for you, sloonei, I thought epic made some decent points, but I'm still not putting you much lower than SVS or Quin. The bottom three on my list are about even, and are very lazily non-controversial. I like things that way.

And you guy have an auto-rainbow tool? That's fantastic!

Cool.

There does seem to be a part of you that is coasting off the goodwill you built up from lynching llama. You don't seem to have a confident read on who his teammates might be though. Does this worry you at all?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:57 pm Btw the font color is the droplet-shaped symbol, right next to the font size menu.

Oh! thank you

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:34 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:30 pm Timmer
Long Con
Epignosis
DharmaHelper
Speedchuck
Sloonei
S~V~S
Quin

I'm interested in Speedchuck and DH here.

They're in the middle because I have had reason to think they are civ but it's possible they are fooling me, and I don't want to entirely discount that possibility. And I'm a bit more wary/think the possibility is a little bit higher of speedchuck.

What has speedchuck done that might be scummy?

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:53 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:50 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:41 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:38 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:20 pm How do you feel about nutella, Quin? The mafia player, not the hazelnut spread.

I am unimpressed by the context in which she first voted for me. For reference, it was that 'look me in the eyes' thing. I agree with Epi's thoughts that she's less likely to be bad since she called Epi out on his lie rather than keeping it to her team, though.

She'd also just named as one of her final 3 candidates for lynching (at the time). I think that's a good enough basis for an early-phase vote.

That skipped my mind. I just remembered me talking to you and her jumping in with a vote.

Did you have any thoughts on her prior to this vote?

Does anyone have a cliffnotes list of reasons to suspect speedchuck? I ask this more for the sake of discussion than my own attempts to catch up.