The Syndicate

NewTraditionalist wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:28 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:27 pm @NewTraditionalist made a meaningful impact on this game -- he was first in the late game to move against nutella when the other civilians were handing her all sorts of credit. That was the initial moment when MP began to shift on that nutella read. It was a big moment and NT triggered it.
Thanks to everyone for the welcome. I'm sorry that I ghosted at the end and didn't participate as much as I would have liked before that. Had a few busy days offline and have yet to be accustomed to adding this place to my "oh yeah...i should check this" list for being a computer (hate browsing forums on phone...sorry...old here).

I look forward to another game. I like the heist size quite a lot and can't imagine trying to sort out a bigger game but we'll see.

Special thanks to MP and SD for the intro to the site and JJJ for hosting the game and being patient.

I definitely hope to see more games with you in them around here in the future.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:17 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:13 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:00 pm Though Epignosis in Vocaroo could kind of make it 11 for mafia and 2 for indy (solo).
That game played out so strangely. We blindly fell into an absentee scum lynch on Day 1 and then had to try to catch a lone baddie with no real clues anywhere. Plus epi charmed the pants off us.
My point is when is Vocaroo II happening?
I've sent all my prayers banking on "never ever".

Sounds like a scum mindset.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:00 pm Though Epignosis in Vocaroo could kind of make it 11 for mafia and 2 for indy (solo).

That game played out so strangely. We blindly fell into an absentee scum lynch on Day 1 and then had to try to catch a lone baddie with no real clues anywhere. Plus epi charmed the pants off us.
My point is when is Vocaroo II happening?

But most importantly, i'm glad Quin has been brought to justice.

Good game, y'all. This may have been one of my worst town performances ever. Whiffed on the first two scum members and had the third one at the start of the game, but completely let her drift off my radar. The rest of you all made it look easy though, so major kudos all around. Well, except for that one day.

I'm not big on self-defense purely for the sake of self-defense, but I will advocate for myself when I feel I have something contributive (that's a real word, don't look it up) to say. And right now I'll say this for myself: Even in the face of all that you've had to say against me tonight, I've maintained, as much as I can, a focus on investigating others. Not because I want to turn the attention away from myself, but because I want us to make the right choice today.

People just pulled into my driveway so I gotta go. Make the right choice, and good game either way.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:25 pm Regardless of your alignment, the sheer amount of effort you've given to this game is beyond commendable, Sloonei. You really deserve to win either way.

I gotta find Quin!

It's also possible that Dom felt resigned coming into today but wasn't ready to wave the white flag just yet, so he put up a token accusatory post and then drifted off, not wanting to indict himself or waste any energy on a lost cause. I could read that in his posts.

we've filled three pages all on our own, essentially.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:21 pm Man, this sucks.

Agreed. Two person mafia doesn't really work.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:18 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:17 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:15 pm I just have a hard time believing the third scum is that apathetic right now, unless that person was Serge because it all seemed like it was going to be him today for sure, but the way he responded didn't read that way at all.
Have you ever seen a player do what Serge did and still turn out to be scum?
I don't think so? I mean, I faked that before, so I guess me. But I can't think of another instance off the top of my head. His sentiments about being frustrated because people don't know his playstyle rung really true too.

My thoughts exactly. It was that part about misunderstood that hammered it home for me. But then, on the flipside of that, if we all don't understand him, it's possible that we don't understand what he's capable of as scum.

Also it's worth noting that he alluded to the two of us having experience together earlier in the game, but now he's lamenting that no one here understands him. I was confused about his comment at the time, and now he's added another layer to my confusion.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:17 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:16 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:14 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:13 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:09 pm I just can't see how that's a logical argument for a scum Dom to make right now though. If he were scum, wouldn't he be trying to convince us of the existence of a busser, since nearly all of us did vote for DDL?
Yes, but I also think town Dom would make this argument as well because, like you said, everyone voted for DDL. His post feels like someone clutching at straws not all that desperately, because he doesn't seem to really care.
Yeah, that's my point, you'd think if he was scum he would care just a bit more and would make a different argument.
Not if he's not invested in the game.
Yeah, I suppose. I don't know about you but I always feel even more guilty about coasting or being uninvested as scum than town.

I definitely agree, but I don't know about Dom and he's probably got more important things than this game going on in his life right now. I could see him being a disinterested townie, but then I'm back to working on my POE chart.

If you're the last scum I'll see what I can do about legally entering your service as a slave, because you will have already thoroughly owned me.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:16 pm I am torn, believe it or not. It could very well be Dom. I'll really be mad at myself if we lynched you and I was wrong. I'll think about it.

I foresee anger in your future if you continue down this path.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:15 pm I just have a hard time believing the third scum is that apathetic right now, unless that person was Serge because it all seemed like it was going to be him today for sure, but the way he responded didn't read that way at all.

Have you ever seen a player do what Serge did and still turn out to be scum?

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:14 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:13 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:09 pm I just can't see how that's a logical argument for a scum Dom to make right now though. If he were scum, wouldn't he be trying to convince us of the existence of a busser, since nearly all of us did vote for DDL?
Yes, but I also think town Dom would make this argument as well because, like you said, everyone voted for DDL. His post feels like someone clutching at straws not all that desperately, because he doesn't seem to really care.
Yeah, that's my point, you'd think if he was scum he would care just a bit more and would make a different argument.

Not if he's not invested in the game.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:12 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:11 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:07 pm I'm sorry, Sloonei, I'm not trying to annoy you or anything here. I just am giving it all I've got. In my mind it has to be you or Dom at this stage, 99% sure, and I still think it's you. If it's Dom, it's sheer luck. I think there are reasons to believe that you are bad, and I also think DDL's read of you feels like manufactured garbage to give you town cover since you were generally being townread at the time.
I don't mean to discourage you or to say that you personally are annoying me, it's not like that at all. I appreciate the work you're putting in, as I've said. But we're coming up fast on the deadline and suddenly all of the energy in the thread (since it's just the two of us) is focused squarely on me. I was hoping to use most of this time solidifying our reads together to make sure we lynch the right person, but instead I've had to respond to accusations this entire time and it appears that I'm going to be the one getting lynched now due to voter apathy.
Got any legacy thoughts in case you do die?

I'm still mulling over everything, by the way, despite my alleged confidence.

You're town. Nutella also looks great in light of her interactions with DDL and vice versa. Daisy still looks solid because of the way she picked up on the DDL/sanmateo pairing. I've got nothing as substantial on bwt and I'd leave the door open on him. The other three need to say more things so we can read them more clearly. Serge is still my second candidate.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:09 pm I just can't see how that's a logical argument for a scum Dom to make right now though. If he were scum, wouldn't he be trying to convince us of the existence of a busser, since nearly all of us did vote for DDL?

Yes, but I also think town Dom would make this argument as well because, like you said, everyone voted for DDL. His post feels like someone clutching at straws not all that desperately, because he doesn't seem to really care.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:10 pm The last scumster right now would be desperately trying to find any reason to cast suspicion on anyone else but him/her. The only person doing that this cycle is you, Sloonei.

well yeah, because you an me are the only people here at all this cycle, and you're trying to focus all the attention on me. Should I just say "Yeah, go ahead, you can lynch me!"?

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:07 pm I'm sorry, Sloonei, I'm not trying to annoy you or anything here. I just am giving it all I've got. In my mind it has to be you or Dom at this stage, 99% sure, and I still think it's you. If it's Dom, it's sheer luck. I think there are reasons to believe that you are bad, and I also think DDL's read of you feels like manufactured garbage to give you town cover since you were generally being townread at the time.

I don't mean to discourage you or to say that you personally are annoying me, it's not like that at all. I appreciate the work you're putting in, as I've said. But we're coming up fast on the deadline and suddenly all of the energy in the thread (since it's just the two of us) is focused squarely on me. I was hoping to use most of this time solidifying our reads together to make sure we lynch the right person, but instead I've had to respond to accusations this entire time and it appears that I'm going to be the one getting lynched now due to voter apathy.

Dom himself has pretty much exclusively made small posts like these, doing nothing but riding on the DDL bandwagon and making sure we all stay focused on DDL and then, of course, anyone who didn't want to lynch DDL because bussing never happens:

Dom wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:40 pm so ddl is probably bad tbh

Dom wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:00 pm voted for a baddie.

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:03 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:02 am In either theory, I am most interested in lazy votes today. Votes that aren't given justification or that come out of left field with a "following the herd" mentality. Votes like Dom's, is what I'm saying.
ok but have you considered i literally stated a reason why i voted for him and stated suspicion of him days ago?

because if not then idk man

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:58 pm k

who didn't want to lynch ddl tho

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:04 pm If Dom is the last baddie, why doesn't he give a shit at all? He hasn't even been here to cast his vote and there's less than hour left.

Good question. I don't have an answer. He hasn't appeared heavily invested in this game either way.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:03 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:02 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:57 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:57 pm MP, I'll ask you again to entertain the idea that I am town and all I want to do right now is work with you to figure out who the last scum is. Please. It's not me. I'm about 80% certain it's Dom.
If it is you and you don't get lynched today, we've almost certainly lost.
How? If we're correct that there's only 1 scum left, then we should have another 2 mislynches in the tank, shouldn't we?
Well, considering you had no suspicion on you before me, and NT, Dom, and BWT are all wild cards for missing each vote, the sense of urgency needs to be high right now. If all three of them are town or even two of them are, which is almost guaranteed, that's as many as two+ missing votes each cycle.

Yell at them to get over here.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:58 pm But sure, why Dom? And if not that 80%, what's the 20%?

I arrived at Dom through process of elimination, same as you. Only I have the luxury of being able to remove myself from that process. The other 20% is general skepticism. Maybe Serge's defeated attitude was a caluclated ploys. Maybe NT is playing the noob card and actually knows exactly what he's doing. Maybe you or daisy are killing it. There are a million hypotheticals, but the most logical choice to me is Dom.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:57 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:57 pm MP, I'll ask you again to entertain the idea that I am town and all I want to do right now is work with you to figure out who the last scum is. Please. It's not me. I'm about 80% certain it's Dom.
If it is you and you don't get lynched today, we've almost certainly lost.

How? If we're correct that there's only 1 scum left, then we should have another 2 mislynches in the tank, shouldn't we?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:42 pm MP looks great for catching sanmateo and driving home the bandewagon against him with Epi.
Daisy looks great for being the first (or one of the first, independently) to point out the sanmateo/DDL relationship.
Birdwithteeth looks good based on some of sanmateo's posts about him early in the game.
I'll have to look into nutella's relationship with DDL and sanmateo more closely, but I vaguely recall seeing something that made her look good.

Dom was on the DDL bandwagon, but he was a latecomer and was not particularly vocal.
Likewise for Serge, but he also receieved some iffy treatment from DDL earlier.
NT is

Here's my list of reasons to read everyone as town/not town. I'd update it to say that nutella looks great through relations with DDL. Serge's apparent withdrawal is also a strong mark in his favor, which leaves it really just at Dom for me. I could still conceivably see Serge being bad, but I find that much less likely now than I did earlier.

MP, I'll ask you again to entertain the idea that I am town and all I want to do right now is work with you to figure out who the last scum is. Please. It's not me. I'm about 80% certain it's Dom.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:53 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:51 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:48 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:47 pm Let's take a look at exactly how DDL defended Sloonei, shall we? sanmateo never said a word about him, but he gladly jointly went after LC bandwagoners with him.
I'm getting annoyed now. This is annoying.
I thought you had nothing to hide.
Exactly. You're just rummaging through my junk when there's nothing there.
Bullshit.

Lynch me, then you'll get killed tonight and we'll be lucky if enough people show up to lynch Dom tomorrow.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:50 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:48 pm Also, Sloonei, you're full of BS when you say you never believed speedchuck didn't consider you a suspect. He specifically said this right before he died:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:26 am I read through DDL's posts. I recommend doing the same. I'm gonna throw down a chart here.
Xs are suspicions
Vs are votes.
Os are defenses/townreads
Qs are questions
S is a shrug
The number with them tells what phase they were on. 0 is night 0. 1 is D1. 2 is N1. And so on. A little confusing, but necessary. CHART TIME!

MovingPictures07 - X1-X1-X1-X1-V1-X2
nutella - X1-X1-X1-V2-X2
Spacedaisy - X1
Sloonei - O1-O1-O1-X1
speedchuck -
NewTraditionalist -
Serge -
birdwithteeth11 -
Dom -

LC - X0-X0-X1-X1
Dr Wilgy - O1-
sanmateo - S2
Epi - S1-O2

A lot of these townreads, or heck, even scumreads, are weak and DDL backs off as he says them. I considered using lowercase to indicate weakness, but the chart is already hard enough to read.

NT was mentioned in relation to MP's vote for NT. DDL didn't like it. Granted, I wasn't a huge fan either.
Those with no mentions were technically a part of DDL's posts when he said stuff like "Everyone else is null" but I didn't include that.

I would appreciate everyone looking at DDL's sloon mentions, and sloon's treatement of DDL, and see if it looks more like DDL buddying and sloonei hunting or DDL defending and then distancing.

That looks like a question to me, not a statement of suspicion. He said this even closer to his death:
speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:00 pm speedchuck
MovingPictures07
Nutella
NewTraditionalist
birdwithteeth11
Dom
Spacedaisy
Sloonei
Serge

GTH readlist for you spacedaisy. I actually feel better about you and Sloonei than this readlist showed, but I'm more paranoid about you guys. I'm going to try to substantiate these reads before Day 4 end. Assuming scum does the smart thing and kills MP tonight instead of me.

It doesn't matter; he is literally the only player in the game other than Daisy that said anything remotely negative about you, and then bam, he's dead.

... so? Maybe I was framed. Maybe he was killed because he was a universal town read who was on fire. Maybe there are a hundred reasons he was killed. I never considered myself to be a suspect of his and I was enjoying his presence in this game, as always.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:48 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:47 pm Let's take a look at exactly how DDL defended Sloonei, shall we? sanmateo never said a word about him, but he gladly jointly went after LC bandwagoners with him.
I'm getting annoyed now. This is annoying.
I thought you had nothing to hide.

Exactly. You're just rummaging through my junk when there's nothing there.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:48 pm It's about time someone fulfilled your request, speedchuck.

It is. It would have been preferable if someone had taken him up on it prior to the final hours before the deadline, but oh well.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:48 pm Also, Sloonei, you're full of BS when you say you never believed speedchuck didn't consider you a suspect. He specifically said this right before he died:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:26 am I read through DDL's posts. I recommend doing the same. I'm gonna throw down a chart here.
Xs are suspicions
Vs are votes.
Os are defenses/townreads
Qs are questions
S is a shrug
The number with them tells what phase they were on. 0 is night 0. 1 is D1. 2 is N1. And so on. A little confusing, but necessary. CHART TIME!

MovingPictures07 - X1-X1-X1-X1-V1-X2
nutella - X1-X1-X1-V2-X2
Spacedaisy - X1
Sloonei - O1-O1-O1-X1
speedchuck -
NewTraditionalist -
Serge -
birdwithteeth11 -
Dom -

LC - X0-X0-X1-X1
Dr Wilgy - O1-
sanmateo - S2
Epi - S1-O2

A lot of these townreads, or heck, even scumreads, are weak and DDL backs off as he says them. I considered using lowercase to indicate weakness, but the chart is already hard enough to read.

NT was mentioned in relation to MP's vote for NT. DDL didn't like it. Granted, I wasn't a huge fan either.
Those with no mentions were technically a part of DDL's posts when he said stuff like "Everyone else is null" but I didn't include that.

I would appreciate everyone looking at DDL's sloon mentions, and sloon's treatement of DDL, and see if it looks more like DDL buddying and sloonei hunting or DDL defending and then distancing.

That looks like a question to me, not a statement of suspicion. He said this even closer to his death:

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:00 pm speedchuck
MovingPictures07
Nutella
NewTraditionalist
birdwithteeth11
Dom
Spacedaisy
Sloonei
Serge

GTH readlist for you spacedaisy. I actually feel better about you and Sloonei than this readlist showed, but I'm more paranoid about you guys. I'm going to try to substantiate these reads before Day 4 end. Assuming scum does the smart thing and kills MP tonight instead of me.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:47 pm Let's take a look at exactly how DDL defended Sloonei, shall we? sanmateo never said a word about him, but he gladly jointly went after LC bandwagoners with him.

I'm getting annoyed now. This is annoying.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:44 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:32 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:25 pm I still think BWT is town based on the way he initially handled this game and his gambit. The fact that he's dropped off the face of the earth lately actually makes me think he's more likely to be town than not as well, knowing him. I'll keep looking though.
I'm not willing to clear him on that initial gambit alone. I agree that it paints him slightly favorably, and I also can't claim to know him nearly as well as you, but that's not a move that would be difficult to fabricate, imo. why does his drop in activity suggest he's town to you?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:49 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:45 pm If you're concerned about the lack of pressure, why aren't you applying it to me and Daisy, or even nutella or BWT?
I'm concerned about the lack of pressure on me. I've looked into you, daisy, and bwt and came up with what I feel are solid reasons to town read all of you.
I'd like to take a closer look at nutella in a few minutes. I have had a busy week and just didn't find time to do it earlier.
You're bad. Literally finding any reason to deflect onto anyone, even if you previously townread or cleared them.

I am town and you are town. I want to put our heads together and work this out. I think bwt is town. I am not as confident about that as I am with you. I want your help reading him so that I can erase the lingering doubts I have about him. Entertain the possibility that I am town and that all I want to do right now is catch the supposed final scum with you. Can you answer my questions please?

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:11 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:06 am Long Con is accusing Epi of the same thing I argued for last night; he is deliberately misconstruing facts to fit his argument. If this is a legitimate accusation then it is not a good look for Epi. However, I did not necessarily feel that he was doing it in a sinister way against me last night (though his underwhelming response doesn't inspire much confidence), and I also still do not have enough trust in Long Con to side with him definitively in their back and forth. Also, sanmateo presented a similar, though less extreme, interpretation of my behavior as Epi did last night, so it's possible I've come off a bit shadier than I believe.

Does anybody else get the sense that Epi is being intentionally deceptive in his arguments?
I mean, it's certainly possible. I just have such a hard time reading LC that it still makes me lean more towards it being a civ vs. civ duke-out here. I'm slightly suspicious of both of them, but I'm starting to feel like it's not enough to warrant a D1 vote.

On that note, this type of post from Day 1 by bwt looks really good. It would have been incredibly easy to pick a side in the Epi vs. LC thing, but he settled on the "civ vs civ" perspective. Townie point.

But also, I was wary of the Long Con bandwagon on Day 1. It rose up very easily and for a while was the only topic of conversation. I wanted to branch out, and that was the best branch I could find at the time.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:33 pm
sanmateo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:04 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:02 pm
sanmateo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:59 pm
birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:22 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:44 pm I felt like Epignosis' reactions were way more suspicious than my reaction to them. I don't understand why you ignore my points about his reactions and just vote for me instead.
How about this for a plan then? We lynch you today for your backtracking. If you flip civ, then we lynch Epig on Day 2 since he was clearly egging you on and trying to start something!
yeah that seems like a terrible plan. none of what i've seen from the epi/LC thing moves me particularly. it's a bunch of tepid day 1 stuff. but more importantly, if getting into weird arguments in-game is really a recurring thing between them, then obviously we need to look elsewhere because anything coming from either of the two about the other one holds less weight.
where else shall we look?
well there's already a bandwagon forming against long con so that seems like a great starting point
Upon reflection, this reads like two teammates talking to each other. Sloonei and sanmateo both made a concerted effort thereafter to hunt LC bandwagoners.

You are tunneling.

Nutella was on DDL's case right away, she said she was following me on him before I even suspected him. This looks good. And then DDL goes and makes posts like this:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:34 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:27 pm Thoughts from catching up -

I'm torn on LC. Epi's references to other games are somewhat compelling; I was in those games and thus am fully aware of why Epi feels the way he does about LC, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he has to be right. Players don't always fulfill the patterns you expect across alignments. LC's reactions (especially the one after my post) were pretty over-the-top though and I can definitely see him being a caught baddie here.

At the same time, I'm torn on BWT as well. The circumstances of his info claim and its apparent misguidedness are intriguing, but I grant that it seems unlikely he would claim bad info openly if bad, so it's more likely it was just misguided/misleading false info. But his over-eager "let's all lynch LC" post was very suspicious. I've been considering voting for him but MP's post here rings pretty true to me and I'm inclined to trust his read:

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:14 pm BWT is being indecisive as fuck. That means he's town. If he was bad, he would force consistency.

I might look into joining Sloonei in a DDL vote; I'll look back at DDL next. Not feeling MP's and Epi's suspicion of Sloonei; I'm seeing town behavior.
Nutella is sitting on the fence so hard Im afraid she might hurt herself.

as well as several others in the same vein, all which give the sense of a scum player trying to push for the lynch of a townie who, at the time, could have been considered low-hanging fruit. I feel good about nutella. I'll take another look at bwt and maybe daisy as well, if there's time. But I think Dom is our guy.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:25 pm I still think BWT is town based on the way he initially handled this game and his gambit. The fact that he's dropped off the face of the earth lately actually makes me think he's more likely to be town than not as well, knowing him. I'll keep looking though.

I'm not willing to clear him on that initial gambit alone. I agree that it paints him slightly favorably, and I also can't claim to know him nearly as well as you, but that's not a move that would be difficult to fabricate, imo. why does his drop in activity suggest he's town to you?

sanmateo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:57 am i think given what people have said about bird i wont vote for him today. sloonei threw out both of the posts that i singled out beforehand but he still seemed steadfast on voting for LC until i wrote that post. something doesn't really track there, i was taken aback by him being that easily convinced but it seemed like people were moving away from that bandwagon so it'd make sense that scum sloonei (scoomei?) would switch. if what he said about looking at bwt's claim in the same way as mp07 and epignosis is true, then why wouldnt he vote for dragon from the start?

that's less simple than the reason i suspect dragon, so it feels less likely to be true. thus im probably voting for dragon. but my uni canceled classes today so i have time to spare

A big part of the reason I cleared bwt was this post, but I just realized I was reading it wrong. sanmateo here is justifying not voting for bwt on Day 1, whereas before I took it as him justifying a vote for bwt. I still don't think he's scum, but I wanted to note it just in case.

Since I'm in the neighborhood, I'll ask how sanmateo's treatment of me in this post looks. Bussing, or a genuine push to get me lynched?

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:22 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:50 am
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:17 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:35 am
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:55 pm I'm looking at a sanmateo/DDL teammate pairing with that last post by DDL.
Daisy was on this DDL/sanmateo thing before it was even a thing. Good look, I think. Or a super early busser. I'm gonna go with the former, but not dismiss the latter entirely.
We don't even know DDL's alignment yet. How would this be a good look for me without knowing DDL's alignment already?

I have gotten a bit ahead of myself, but like I explained in the other post, process of elimination has me feeling confident in DDL. He has the most evidence pointed against him of anyone in the thread right now, that I can see. It's possible that I'm succumbing to laziness and prejudice today. But as things stand right now, this game makes the most sense to me if DDL is bad. If he's not, then I have to re-examine it.

That said, even if he is good, you arrived at the conclusion on which the rest of us have settled before anyone else without much notice. If you're bad, that's a pretty slick move on your part either way. I feel like it was a genuine conclusion for you to reach and I believe in the sincerity of your observation.
On reflection, I also think this was an instance where you TMI'd, Sloonei.

Just the world's best mafia player.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:20 pm I also don't buy any of your explanations that you're calm and collected right now because you don't care about this game. You've put a ton of effort into this game. And I am relentlessly attacking you. You've defended yourself by swatting me away and it's thoroughly unconvincing. You're not responding to my pressure with any investment. It's because you know I'm right.

I never said I don't care about this game. I care about this game, I wouldn't be making these posts if I didn't. I'm just calm. I'd be annoyed if you lynched me, but it's not the end of the world and town's still in good shape.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:19 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:17 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:12 pm See, Sloonei, you seem content in turning the conversation on anyone else; now you're including nutella. I don't get the sense that you're trying to figure out who's town.

Earlier you were equivocating Dom, NT, and Serge, yet earlier in the game you had reason to read him town just like I did. Yet today you've conveniently left that out of your rhetoric. I think it's because you're bad.
Of course I'm trying to turn the conversation onto other people. I've narrowed down my list of suspects to a couple of people and instead we're talking about me and things I can't really even answer. Let's talk about these other people instead and then see if I'm still the best candidate. I'm not asking you to forget that I'm here, I'm just asking you to work with me to catch bad guys.

I'd like to look at nutella myself now, I'm gonna be having people over in a couple hours so I don't have much time.
I have been looking at other people, mind you, as we speak.

I think NT is town. You did too, for the same reason, but now you apparently don't anymore. I think that's bullshit. You're desperately trying to get anyone lynched that isn't yourself. You even are contradicting yourself; you want us to look at Dom and nutella now that Serge conveniently came in and self-voted.

I never had a strong read on either NT or Serge. I went back and forth on Serge. Townies often change their mind. NT is mostly a shrug, but I am leaning town on him. Note that most of my concentration today has been on Serge and Dom, not Serge, Dom, and NT.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:14 pm I have genuine reasons for suspecting you. I've given them. The speedchuck kill implicates you more than anyone because you had a vested interest in him going away more than me because I hadn't said a word against you before today. DDL defended you aggressively, and he was bad. I've said other things. The fact that you just act like I'm not saying anything and that you're being suspected for no reason makes you look bad.

I never said any of this. I agree that these are reasons to be skeptical of me, it's just not something I can answer to. I didn't kill speedchuck and I don't know why he died, and I also felt like he felt pretty good about me. I didn't sense that I was a serious suspect of his, and I believe he stated as much. I was not DDL's teammate and I do not know why he defended me. what more do you want me to say to these things?

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:12 pm See, Sloonei, you seem content in turning the conversation on anyone else; now you're including nutella. I don't get the sense that you're trying to figure out who's town.

Earlier you were equivocating Dom, NT, and Serge, yet earlier in the game you had reason to read him town just like I did. Yet today you've conveniently left that out of your rhetoric. I think it's because you're bad.

Of course I'm trying to turn the conversation onto other people. I've narrowed down my list of suspects to a couple of people and instead we're talking about me and things I can't really even answer. Let's talk about these other people instead and then see if I'm still the best candidate. I'm not asking you to forget that I'm here, I'm just asking you to work with me to catch bad guys.

I'd like to look at nutella myself now, I'm gonna be having people over in a couple hours so I don't have much time.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:07 pm I'm having a serious flare up of hives at the moment. I am going to go try and put some calamine lotion on and take a nap. I will be back before the deadline though to see if anything has changed my mind, so if you are town Sloon, I need you to convince me.

I've tried my best to understand the thought processes of all the players in this game in turn, as I always do. I've made some poor reads and this has definitely not been my finest effort, but I've been nothing but honest. I don't know how else to convince you right now, as the case against me remains pure speculation, which is fair, but it's not something I can really speak to personally unless you have direct questions for me. I'm sorry. But my posts are honest and that should be reflected when you or anyone else reads them. I hope that your vote is for the right person today.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:56 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:54 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:49 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:47 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:43 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:42 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:39 pm I don't sense any fire from any of your responses.
I'm not worried. I believe my posts speak for themselves. I'm town, and I think we're in good shape even if enough people are misled by your tinfoil today. I also appreciate that someone is finally being skeptical of me. This place was getting boring.
You would be worried if you were town. This game is complacent and even one mislynch today could easily end this game for us.
I never get lynched when I'm town. I'm only worried if I believe there's valid reasons for me to be lynched, and I don't believe any of those exist in this game.
That's not a town perspective.
Why not? I'm a calm person, I'm calm right now. I think you're town and this is the most activity the thread has seen in days. Hopefully we can make something good come of it.
I know you are, but I just feel like if you were truly invested in this game as a member of the town, you would show at least some fire in response to any of this. Instead I've gotten the fly swatting scum Sloonei I witnessed in Street Fighter.

I believe your town already, so I have no reason to try to turn this interrogation around on you. So I am just swatting flies. You suspect me. You should not suspect me. Shoo.
Let's talk about Dom and nutella instead. As all there is to the case against me, it seems, is speculation about what I would do as mafia and not anything substantial that I've said or done in the thread (at least so far. If you can pull anything up, go ahead, but your time would be better spent elsewhere), I think we'd be better suited exploring our other options. If, after that, you still feel that I make the most sense then I guess you can vote for me but that will just mean another day in which the town's two most vocal members are dead, after the nightkill.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:53 pm It could easily be Dom, but I'm not ready to just fall into lynching one player after another out of some kind of obligation. We need to figure this out.

Linki: Let me dig into his ISO and give you whatever detailed thoughts I can muster. I'll look at him and then nutella.

I agree with this sentiment, but when everyone's taken a vow of silence it's difficult to play any other way.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:49 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:47 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:43 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:42 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:39 pm I don't sense any fire from any of your responses.
I'm not worried. I believe my posts speak for themselves. I'm town, and I think we're in good shape even if enough people are misled by your tinfoil today. I also appreciate that someone is finally being skeptical of me. This place was getting boring.
You would be worried if you were town. This game is complacent and even one mislynch today could easily end this game for us.
I never get lynched when I'm town. I'm only worried if I believe there's valid reasons for me to be lynched, and I don't believe any of those exist in this game.
That's not a town perspective.

Why not? I'm a calm person, I'm calm right now. I think you're town and this is the most activity the thread has seen in days. Hopefully we can make something good come of it.

What are your thoughts on Dom, MP? I know he's someone you often struggle to read, but any thoughts or inclinations you have about him would also be extremely useful. I feel like he's just been poking his head in occasionally to make sure the town is bloodthirsty and nothing else, but with so few posts it's difficult to get the full scope of his perspective.

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