The Syndicate

But none of that “only survivors can win” nonsense.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:05 pm I vote to have more Classic Syndicate games hosted here in the future.

I’m gonna be the change I want to see in the world. Next game I host will have classic syndicate rules. I don’t know what or when it will be, but it’s happening.

I vote to have more Classic Syndicate games hosted here in the future.

I put zero effort into solving roles. That probably hurts in a game like this.

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:11 pm @Sloonei did you work out what I was getting at with the night 1 thing?

No lol

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:54 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:52 pm Did anyone not know what my role was after Day 1?

I mean me, obviously lol.

Glad I was such a good brick wall for Scotty.

I laughed when you said it was obvious I wasn’t Rev Mafia, but in hindsight thought maybe that was an act.

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:41 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:24 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:23 pm [VOTE: Elo] aubergine

You're all over the place Scotty.

I’m a scattershot on D1 here in the Wild West, partner

This post was pretty telling for me yesterday

Did anyone not know what my role was after Day 1?

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:42 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:35 pm There were moments in both Eloh's and Golden's ISOs that I thought looked like potential teammate interactions with members of the mafia team. Ultimately, I felt like Golden's going after Quin on Day 1 and then some time in the middle of the game felt too unprompted, and Quin's reactions too anxious, to have been faked. Well played, you two.

Honestly every member of this team mattered to this win. I do not think I could have pulled this off without them setting up a realistic deepwolf run.

It was a definite team win. I didn’t really suspect either of you on your own in the end and had to resort to associative reads.

There were moments in both Eloh's and Golden's ISOs that I thought looked like potential teammate interactions with members of the mafia team. Ultimately, I felt like Golden's going after Quin on Day 1 and then some time in the middle of the game felt too unprompted, and Quin's reactions too anxious, to have been faked. Well played, you two.

Butts

@Spacedaisy @Epignosis

My mind is made up. I recognize that my vote determines whether or not a bunch of great people will become eligible to participate in this year's Game of Champions after long absences. That's a lot of pressure, if any of them are interested in playing.

I've been reading over both your ISOs for a while. Then I switched to reading G/Michelle/Quin ISOs to see how you all interacted with one another throughout the game. Sorry for not posting my work. Since I am only solving for myself at this stage, I felt it was more efficient to simply scan and make small notes to myself. I can explain my decision after the fact, and I'm sure I will whether I get it wrong or right. But for now I just want to rip the band-aid off and conclude this wonderful game. Thank you for answering my questions today.

[VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine

Sorry if I got this wrong, everybody. Especially you, Eloh. Well played to everyone, thank you Daisy and Epi for hosting. Sorry I bailed for the middle portion of the game, I really did love being involved and seeing so many old faces again.

Golden applied heavy pressure on Quin Day 1.
Quin went hard after Eloh Day 1.

Wild stuff.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:07 pm O woll nut vuti sumiuni besid un gat unly. Tudey, Guldin vutid wothuat ivin hierong frum enyuni ilsi end ot os thi must cracoel vuti uf thi gemi. O fonelly hevi sumi ectoun tu beck ap my gat.

This does not address my concern. Yesterday, you said you were deciding between myself and vivax. That leaves out two players from yesterday's roster: sig and Golden. You specifically cited Golden's analysis as reason to suspect me.

Today, you claim that you have suspected Golden all game. But this suspicion did not manifest itself in any way yesterday, when it should have.

Yesterday:

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:56 pm It's sloonei or vivax for me. I'dlike to hear form both of them why I should think they are civ. Golden's point on Sloonei are pretty damning. And I just can't shake the feeling that vivax is no good.

Today:

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:01 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:37 pm @Elohcin If Golden had not voted for you and you were free to vote for either of us, who do you think you would have chosen? Why?

RIED ELUAD. Ot hilps.

[I gut felt golden was bad all game but knowlegably could never go there to build a case.] Hi wes qaoit ierly un end bicemi muri uf e furci eftir G wes doid. O fiil loki yuar gemipley hes biin muri cunsostint. Bat O hevi tu bi hunist. Of tudey wint doffirintly end guldin hed cumi on end telkid, bat weotid fur mi tu try tu rispund, end thin weotid antol clusir tu ind uf dey tu vuti yua, O wuald hevi es will. Thet osn't huw tudey wint, thuagh. Tudey, Guldin cemi on end pustid e BANCH whoch luukid loki "tryong" tu hilp tu sevi hos batt end thin vutid bifuri enyuni rispundid. O thonk hos ontintouns wiri tu cuntrul thi thried. O dodn't loki thet end ot sielid my gat fiilongs O'vi hed ell gemi. O jast hupi O'm roght.

LONKO - Guldin dod nut ivin weot fur as tu rispund!

@Elohcin Can you explain why Golden was the one player you were not considering yesterday, but today claim that you felt he was bad all game?

I just meant that I've been trying to be very careful to not even breathe a hint of info-dumping in the thread, so I was in no position to say "Hey, Golden, just fyi, the role you think I am is wrong." I had picked up on what you believed me to be.

I do have a question for @Golden. It is centered around this exchange:
Early in the game, you seemed certain that my town read on Quin was more secure or informed than it turned out to be. When I walked it back on Day 3, you expressed shock and dismay at your shattered worldview. But, after a brief exchange with me, you recovered and carried on reading me as town. Can you talk some more about how you processed all of these events? I understand that this topic is a bit dicey because it involves Stuff About Which We May Not Speak.

I am in the middle of reading Golden's ISO right now. I'm on page 6 and G-man is still alive. He definitely had a heavy presence before G-man flipped. In fact, G-man consistently voiced a joint suspicion of Golden and I because were highly vocal, and he was determined to push the narrative that one of the most vocal players was mafia.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:01 pm Hi wes qaoit ierly un end bicemi muri uf e furci eftir G wes doid. O fiil loki yuar gemipley hes biin muri cunsostint

I am sorry, but I'm not sure I buy this sentiment at all. If anything, my play has been inconsistent and Golden has been a steady force all game. I've dropped off the face of the earth since G-man was eliminated. What makes you call me the more consistent player?

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:58 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:35 pm @Golden Can you talk a bit more about your decision to cast such an early vote for Eloh? What convinced you she is not town? She was OT Green'd and all that.

I spent two hours isoing Quin, Michelle, G-Man and Eloh last night and what I saw led me that way. I did post a lot of it in the thread.

Being OT greened is NAI for me, I'd be expecting that role to target teammates some of the time.

Besides that, it is not 'such an early vote'. For me there is no merit in waiting around 12 more hours just for the look of the thing.

Did it not give you pause that, if you were wrong, you'd effectively be ending the game then and there?

You both responded within moments of each other. Seems awfully coordinated...

@Elohcin If Golden had not voted for you and you were free to vote for either of us, who do you think you would have chosen? Why?

@Golden Can you talk a bit more about your decision to cast such an early vote for Eloh? What convinced you she is not town? She was OT Green'd and all that.

I’ve got a few work/storm prep things to do this afternoon. I’ll get in here to review and make my final decision in a bit.

Whichever of you is town can rest easy that you chose right. If I was mafia, I’d just hammer now.

Preemptive warning that my area is getting pummeled by snow between now and saturday, so there’s a slight chance I could lose power at some point. If that happens, idk if I’ll be able to be present for the end game here, which obviously sucks hard. I don’t think that’s super likely to happen, but it’s not impossible.

I’m several miles north of the areas that are supposed to be hit the worst, and it’s not actually that cold and, for the moment, there’s no wind either. It’s just steady snowfall for 48 hours, as far as I can tell.

I have zero time for solving today, but will have time tomorrow.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:34 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:11 pm Grr. Wes pleyong e gemi woth thi femoly end wes tutelly dostrectid. O medi ot tu my cumpatir jast e sicund tuu leti tu vuti. Bat, O wuald hevi vutid vovex. Cuald Guldin bi bed? O cennut biloivi thisi beddois eri tekong as duwn!

Not me, I suggest you have a close look at night 1 too.

Are you able to talk more about why Night 1 is so important? Or should I give you another subject to talk about, like the recent weather we've been having.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:31 am Sloonei, if you were wolf, who would you have killed last night?

I think my survival actually does make sense upon reflection.

w!sloonei has had me pocketed most of the game and could likely believe I’d vote elo with him.

w!eloh has vivax basically say sig/elo were his last two suspects and he’d cleared the other two, so having him alive was dangerous.

But @Sloonei im interested in your take on who you say you would have killed out of me, vivax and eloh if you were wolf and why.

I probably kill you, but I also probably don’t assign vivax a hard town read yesterday beforehand.

@Golden Justify your survival, please and thanks.

It would be beautiful and poetic if sig is pedantic pink, after all.

[VOTE: dog] aubergine

may god have mercy on us all

I'll be voting for sig in about an hour unless something very dramatic happens.

One more vote for sig puts him at majority. If votes were changeable, mind would be on him already. But I would like to give him and Eloh more time to say things today. And I suppose there may be lingering questions about me as well.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:03 pm Meanwhile Sloonie is around but again not doing or saying much. At this point he’s just kind of adding fuel to the fire of lynching me without doing any leg work so won’t get the blame

Posts that aged poorly

I've largely arrived at sig as my preferred vote for today due to process of elimination. I had time to read on my phone yesterday evening, but was not posting as I went in the interest of saving time. The result of my silent study was finding reasons to cross every name off the list except for sig. I did also find a couple arguments to be made for sig to be mafia. One is the lack of meaningful interactions with the mafia team. Another has to do with some developments in his reads which do not seem organic or consistent.

If you'll all allow me one more moment of self-absorption, I find the easiest example to point out has to do with his handling of me in the mid-game:
In the immediate aftermath of G-man's flip, sig pins me in his "Most solid/Civ" tier. He follows that up by endorsing G-man's theory that a high-poster is mafia, but he names everyone from that grouping but me. I find it questionable that sig would so readily and blindly endorse a theory that originated with a confirmed mafia here, when doing a post-mortem of that very same mafia member. But that is not my main issue here. My main issue will be how sig repeatedly revises his stance on me over the next couple phases, seemingly at random. We are beginning here, from a point of "Most Solid Civ". Moving on:
No big changes here, but this will be relevant later on for a couple of reasons. First, Sig casts a vote for Quin and specifically cites Sloonei's analysis as a factor in that vote. He then goes on to reiterate that Sloonei is unlikely to be mafia because "I doubt a mafia team of Sloonie and Gman wouldn’t be able to create a third wagon." At this stage, sig has firmly presented arguments for me to be down, and also used my analysis to justify a vote on a player. That player, incidentally, will flip mafia.
Sig does a 180 and embraces the Sloonei tinfoil. This comes at a time when the thread had begun to scratch its head over G-man's refusal to vote for me.
In the previous post, sig's tinfoil suspicion of me was tied, at least partially, to Scotty also being mafia. Here, Scotty's death is also presented as a bad look for me. Sig has made no mention of his former town read on me, or why it should be disregarded now. He has not reconciled the problem of G-man and Sloonei being incapable of creating a counterwagon to themselves. He has not denounced my analysis of G-man's posts. He's merely embraced tinfoil suspicion against me when it became evident that other (town) players in the game had not removed me from their POE list.
Sig still places value in my G-man analysis, however.
Remember earlier when sig both voted for Quin because of my G-man analysis, and gave a specific reason why a Sloonei/G-man pairing made little sense?
Well, in this post he says "I've got literally zero scum reads" and then makes the argument that a Sloonei/G-man pairing is something to be worried about. He also cites an unrelated reason to vote for Quin. Then there is this:
"Additionally it’s clear mafia are now shooting for high content people so why go Llama than Scotty but leave golden and sloonie. "

This kind of question does not feel sincere and gives the impression of fearmongering, or drumming up more tinfoil against the most vocal players (at the time). It is not unfair to question mafia kill choices. But the framing of this question seems to suggest that the mafia team was deliberately leaving Golden and Sloonei alive while taking out all other high volume players. They had killed two players at this point with two nightkills. Sloonei and Golden were not targeted alongside Scotty and llama because the mafia team did not have four kills in a two-night span.
Of course, Golden and I are both still alive right now, so maybe this thought could have more merit. But there is now only one remaining mafia member, so there is no such thing as a Golden/Sloonei pairing.
And we're going to end here. I am now at the top of Sig's "Iffy players" list, ahead of both Michelle and Quin. Note first that Sig provides a brief explanation for his read on every player on this list EXCEPT me, the player occupying the top spot. That's a weird look on its own. I also want to emphasize my overall point by reiterating where sig began and ended on me during this journey.

Beginning:

sig wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:58 pm Most solid/Civ: Sloonie and Kate
Mid tier: DrWilgy
Iffy tier: Michelle and Golden

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:24 pm I’m gonna go ahead and vote for Quin. I think Llama + being off major wagon + the peanut gallery votes + Sloonie GMan analysis is a pretty good reason to start there.

Ending:

sig wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:09 am The iffy players for me right now would be
1. Sloonie
2. Michelle
3. Quin
4. DF
5. Vivax
6. Golden

I would have an easier time believing that this is a genuine progression if there existed any evidence that Sig had actually reconsidered his town read on me prior to jumping on the tinfoil train. Instead, it looks like a player who presumed that everyone would see me as town, but then, when didn't happen, did an abrupt 180 to keep me in his suspect pool.

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:34 pm @Sloonei is there any particular reason you didn't vote for bea? I can't recall.

If I remember correctly, there was no drama that day and bea was always getting eliminated. I put my vote on Vivax in the interest of presenting another option, which was a topic of conversation around that time.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:48 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:24 pm None of the mafia members had any meaningful interactions with sig.

This might be true, but given the activity levels of the mafia team it isn’t that odd.

Every other remaining player had notable interactions with at least one of them.

None of the mafia members had any meaningful interactions with sig.

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:58 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:22 am

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:19 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 am I’ve decided I won’t be voting for vivax.

This is a switch from where you’ve been. Is this switch triggered by you doing any form of specific thread reading?

Yes

OK I'm doing my own reading on Vivax and I find him relatively mafia compatible so far. If you think there are posts which might lead me in a townclear direction it would be really helpful if you can point me to them.

I thought Scotty had some nice things to say about him.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:06 pm When silently reading ISOs last night, I noticed that Eloh repeatedly had small, only-slightly-game-related interactions with Eloh, but did not have any similar interactions with other members of the mafia team. This would be a weird dynamic if they are partners.

I also noted some concerning trends in the (lock of) development in sig’s reads in the middle and late game.

Eloh’s interactions were with Michelle. She was not talking to herself in the thread.

Groggy brain posting

ebwop: “(lack of)”, it “(lock of)”.

When silently reading ISOs last night, I noticed that Eloh repeatedly had small, only-slightly-game-related interactions with Eloh, but did not have any similar interactions with other members of the mafia team. This would be a weird dynamic if they are partners.

I also noted some concerning trends in the (lock of) development in sig’s reads in the middle and late game.

(I am currently leaning towards a vote for sig as well)

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:24 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:15 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:56 pm It's sloonei or vivax for me. I'dlike to hear form both of them why I should think they are civ. Golden's point on Sloonei are pretty damning. And I just can't shake the feeling that vivax is no good.

What damning points has goldwn raised against me?

I'm not the kind of mafia player to re-state everything someone else has said just to make more posts and the the thread longer.

He made many posts analyzing you and I think it is on you to look at them and defend your standing.

Please tell me why you aren't voting for vivax today as that has not been stated already.

This is not why I asked. I asked because Golden made a bunch of points about me, but his conclusion seemed much more favorable than “damning”:

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:02 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:45 pm I noticed a potential Golden townslip yesterday but didn't say anything because I figured it wasn't necessary, and there was a chance he was fishing. Llama seems to be at least momentarily unaware that llama is dead. I feel like this is less likely to happen if he was one of the people responsible for butchering the llama.

I don't know if Sloonei says this if bad...

You know, I was planning on coming out of this iso with a "world that explains mafia sloonei" and a "world that explains civ sloonei" to weigh them up but...

This is as far as I've gotten so far, and it's really hard for me to make sense of a world that has a mafia sloonei.

He has to be majorly wifom, then full defend one of his teammates, then full bus one of his other teammates... it's messy, in a way that just doesn't feel like a coherent scum plan.

Also, now being fairly confident sloonei is no mason, and reading through just his iso again... I have yet another role in mind for him

Sloonei's gone way up my list from this read, glad I did it.

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:19 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 am I’ve decided I won’t be voting for vivax.

This is a switch from where you’ve been. Is this switch triggered by you doing any form of specific thread reading?

Yes

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:56 pm It's sloonei or vivax for me. I'dlike to hear form both of them why I should think they are civ. Golden's point on Sloonei are pretty damning. And I just can't shake the feeling that vivax is no good.

What damning points has goldwn raised against me?

I’ve decided I won’t be voting for vivax.

Just gonna respond to the Golden posts where a response is warranted.

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:55 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:54 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:25 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:16 pm Verily, I say unto thee, my brothers and sister- this game looks awesome. Let's have some fun!


PS- Could the hosts include the player list in the OP or somewhere? I'd like to start setting up my spreadsheet... old-school style!

Vastly disappointed with myself. EBWOP- Verily, I say unto thee, my brothers and sisters- this game looks awesome. Let's have some fun!

It’s just the one sister, actually.

I started isoing sloonei and... is this something he'd say if bad? It would be super on the nose in his second post - to reply to G-Man with the gender balance of their collective team.

This is a joke/reference to Hot Fuzz. I just got done hosting Hot Fuzz Mafia a few days before this game started. "It's just the one ____, actually" is a line from the film that I used multiple times in the game's flavor.

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:15 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:07 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:27 pm That being said, I actually think sig coming out and throwing caution to the wind with regards to his spelling and grammar is townie, if not reckless. Could be WIFOM, but that role is incredibly restrictive to my *vibe* which comes with autocorrect errors and incomplete sentences. So I get it.

The grammar police role is mafia. Making typos does not benefit town.

What is your specific point here @Sloonei? You made a deliberate typo yourself a few posts above, so it can't be 'town shouldn't make typos'.

I didn't know that Pedantic Pink was a mafia role until after I had responded to sig.

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:45 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:24 pm We're not killing mafia today.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:31 pm That being said, if not sloonei, then vivax. Also, Elo still a good kill.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:12 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:10 pm maybe i will be here, because i can't seem to look away. this is the problem with a work-from-home job.

I have no plans on helping you live through the day. But my Spidey sense says that you will somehow.

@Sloonei since day 1 these posts have been quite meaningful in terms of my read on the slot occupied by Vivax 2.0. I have felt that Vivax has most likely been town on the back of them.

You, on the other hand, have fairly consistently chased Vivax 2.0 during the game. What are your thoughts on these posts. Do they move the needle for you?

I do not assign much weight at all to these posts, and do not know why you would do so either.

[VOTE: dfaraday] aubergine

Everyone else is doing it. I just want to be popular.