The Syndicate

well played, dizzy and thanks for the game nanook. I guess I'll need to earn my eligibility for next year's GoC some other way.

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:54 pm Dont ler dizzy sweet talk all of you into submission

But that's my favorite thing to do.

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:46 pm The fact that nobody really stood up for me (ty for trying pc) should be setting off alarm bells that it is not correct tbh

How so?

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:45 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:44 pm As Thread Dad, I just want you all to know that I'm very proud of you.
Thank you. Do you want to be my godfather?

I'm scared now.

And also that if the game is still happening tomorrow and I'm not here, my advice is this:

Find the other town player. Trying to identify which player is lying is more stressful and conducive to second guessing. Focusing instead of who is telling the truth is an easier route. If you are town in a 2v1 lylo, treat both players as town until you make your decision.

As Thread Dad, I just want you all to know that I'm very proud of you.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:08 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:06 pm
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:05 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:04 pm
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:59 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:56 pm I've been going back and forth in my mind so many times. Reading Porscha's iso, I feel better about my vote and not worse.
gah
I really don't think it's porscha tbh but I don't know who it is

~sheep
Why do you not think it’s porscha?
idk i just think she's towny
gaksdh;lkasd
In what particular instances has she been towny?
uh
while I potentially go look for things

isn't porscha like very polarized
and mac said she's 100% town

I don’t think so. Nor do I think these things are all that important right now.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:05 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:04 pm
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:59 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:56 pm I've been going back and forth in my mind so many times. Reading Porscha's iso, I feel better about my vote and not worse.
gah
I really don't think it's porscha tbh but I don't know who it is

~sheep
Why do you not think it’s porscha?
idk i just think she's towny
gaksdh;lkasd

In what particular instances has she been towny?

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:59 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:56 pm I've been going back and forth in my mind so many times. Reading Porscha's iso, I feel better about my vote and not worse.
gah
I really don't think it's porscha tbh but I don't know who it is

~sheep

Why do you not think it’s porscha?

I enjoyed my first obligation-free day in weeks a little too much. I neglected to do more heavy ISO reading in here. But I am not uncomfortable with the decision to vote for Porscha.

If the game does not end in an hour, I believe it is because Party Crasher is a lone wolf.

[VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

Sorry if this is incorrect, Porscha.

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:25 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:19 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:57 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:07 am (I think the response of t!Porscha to the PC town clear is a dizzy vote not a golden tinfoil).
I am doing my due diligence here that's all this is

I'm obviously not using an agenda to push any specific player which at this point the wolf should be having to do a little more to cinch the ML and keep eyes off of them if they are subtle enough about it

So I'm sure you understand why I'm becoming a little more wary of you as you keep repeatedly posting about me and how I have to be the last wolf
I feel like you've been softly pushing towards me tbh. How would you rank your reads right now?
I honestly almost cant even rank them
I cannot logically find the most likely of which of you it is. Everyone feels almost as equally unlikely

I'm working today so I doubt I'll be here for eod. If I get chopped as a shrug yeet, which it looks like I will because everybody is actually in the same boat as me (confused- nobody feels like a good chop) then good luck to those who make it to lylo, you will have gained no further info from my flip and will be playing this day all over again with further pressure. I dont envy you

I do not feel like you would be a “shrug chop”. I have found reasons to town read everybody else that I feel reasonably good about. I have not found a reason to be as confident about you.

When I try to find town right now, you three (Golden, Dizzy, Party Crasher) all look very town. Porscha does not look exceedingly suspicious. But they look less town.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:08 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:05 pm
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:02 pm framing our posts today as being more focused on self-preservation
Not all of them. Just these ones.
You seem more focused on arguing than I would like*.

* for legal reasons this is a joke and not actual shade

bye have fun kiss kiss

I mean, yeah. Kinda.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:02 pm framing our posts today as being more focused on self-preservation

Not all of them. Just these ones.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:42 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:17 pm
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:16 am yea to put it in a more concise way @Dyslexicon

if we are at 3v2, its an unnecessary risk to chop me first (what if im town? and its actually 4v1) (talking from your pov, assuming ur town, as if im you right now)

if we are at 4v1, and chop me today, we would be using both of our remaining chops to kill me, where instead we can use both of those chops to kill me AND another person beforehand

if im the sole mafia remaining, and we chop a town today, that only loses for town and wins for hypotethical mafia me if i pull a random kill out of my ass tonight

but ... mafia has had no unexplained KP the entire game except the urist and kate day kills. there have been 0 extra NKs. for many many nights now. so i think its somewhat safe to assume last mafia wont pull a random extra NK out of ass

-t
Part of me is concerned about how hard you are working to make this point.
is it really working hard when it's a direct response to someone speculating about our vest again

Kind of. I think a better way to say it would be that you seem more focused on self-preservation than I would like.

If it is 4v1 today, then eliminating nobody means it's still 4v1. We can avoid the potential of extra kill shenanigans ending the game tonight. If we want to go that route, the most productive way to not eliminate anyone would be to test your vest (or Golden's vest, I suppose). You framing it as purely antithetical to town's win condition has me mildly concerned.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:16 am yea to put it in a more concise way @Dyslexicon

if we are at 3v2, its an unnecessary risk to chop me first (what if im town? and its actually 4v1) (talking from your pov, assuming ur town, as if im you right now)

if we are at 4v1, and chop me today, we would be using both of our remaining chops to kill me, where instead we can use both of those chops to kill me AND another person beforehand

if im the sole mafia remaining, and we chop a town today, that only loses for town and wins for hypotethical mafia me if i pull a random kill out of my ass tonight

but ... mafia has had no unexplained KP the entire game except the urist and kate day kills. there have been 0 extra NKs. for many many nights now. so i think its somewhat safe to assume last mafia wont pull a random extra NK out of ass

-t

Part of me is concerned about how hard you are working to make this point.

It is 3 AM, I need to be asleep. I'll be spending more time digging through all your ISOs tomorrow. If you're town, just keep on being town.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:14 am
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 3:45 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:06 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:24 amReminds me of my own town game:

1) hasn’t caught any wolves
2) townreads everyone
3) tilted at being called a liar
4) understands the need to create town momentum in the thread but can’t work out how and just ends up forlornly saying ‘I really am town’ a lot.
Never been roasted so fiercely in my life lol
I actually have caught wolves. I caught Marmot, and also I listened to Nut on Sean, which I'm pretty happy with, because I think listening is something I do well, in my good moments.
I mean I also caught marmot on day 2 and I caught Alison but, yknow, I mean nailing one to a wall in a clearing kinda way.
This exchange @Sloonei

Noted

@Dyslexicon When you're awake and here, what are your best reasons to town read everybody?

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:06 am I don’t think it’s PC.

I think it really does HAVE to be Porscha.

Why isn’t it dizzy?

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:41 am Actually I just went back and read my own role.

It’s not lylo.

It’s if it ends the game. So if pc is the last wolf I think one shot would kill them.

huh?

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:35 am The other possibility here is it genuinely is PC and I’m clearing them for the wrong reasons. But that just seems so unlikely.

I also am about 85% in the camp of clearing Party Crasher for several strong but not rock-solid reasons, and 15% wondering if I'm making a mistake there.

@Party Crasher @Porscha What do you think of Golden claiming that he faked a town read on Alison to win her trust?

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:23 am Yes I've already explicitly said it was a BS read that I pushed her on, and that she TMI'd me town since I also thought it was inorganic

My immediate concern is that Alison expressed that read in the first place. It looks like she is trying to subtly weave the idea of you being "spewed town" into the thread based on a bogus associative read. If it can also sow division between the two of you in the event that one of you flips, that's just bonus points.

That said, I am also gonna take a look at how you handled Alison.

"mommy comment" context:

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:55 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:53 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:52 am sabi is mafia tho
I wouodnt be surprised either tbh
Taking back the mommy comment

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:19 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:17 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:14 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:30 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:32 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:49 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:36 pm

What is it

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:19 pm Side eyeing Seanzie and Creature joining that Dennis wagon like that
This feels a lot like Sabi knows Dennis is town and is preparing in advance to shade Seanzie and Creature for voting him.
Idk I kind of vibe with the idea of throwing 1 town and 1 wolf partner into the mix for wifom spew reasons like we are doing now

What you pondering gamer
Wow that post is something…
Cuz I fucking called it? :dab: Lmfao
Why would I as a wolf say that?

for wifom spew reasons

Porscha wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:14 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:30 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:32 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:49 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:36 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:33 pm I do think the Sabi spew on Seanzie looks good for him and would prefer SVS/112 at this time
What is it

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:19 pm Side eyeing Seanzie and Creature joining that Dennis wagon like that
This feels a lot like Sabi knows Dennis is town and is preparing in advance to shade Seanzie and Creature for voting him.
Idk I kind of vibe with the idea of throwing 1 town and 1 wolf partner into the mix for wifom spew reasons like we are doing now

What you pondering gamer

"Are Porscha and Alison teammates?"

The post above this one is more pertinent:

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:25 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:42 am if we assume my analysis of wilgy's wolf archetype isn't wrong and my reads on guillo and sig are solid then sabi might actually have given an all town POE to powerwolf us

the last 3 names are porscha dennis HK. dennis is flipped town, porscha is spewed town by the mommy comment, and mac is shielding HK

This thought from Alison is never real or believable.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:13 am For me it's the fact that she participated in the death event game that had no reward and only risk of death, and she got townread by a lot of people familiar with her meta. Apparently her wolf range is much smaller than her town range. But then again, the same is apparently true for Golden

This idea has been perpetuated, but I have never believed it. The reward for joining and surviving the game is that people view you as more likely to be town for having joined the event in the first place.

Plus, we didn't know the exact nature of the event anyway. As you just pointed out, Porscha may or may not have reacted negatively upon learning the true nature of the event.

I already said that Golden's early-game progression Alison felt too elaborate to have been faked. He then went and added two whole new layers of elaborate shenanigans on top of what was already there.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:02 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:54 am Golden's early-game progression on Alison feels noteworthy.

It starts off with some blunt dismissal of her early suspcision. Then it turns into open skepticism. After a brief back-and-forth, he seeks more elaboration from people who know Alison. But then he eventually settles on a town read, specifically citing some similarities he sees between Alison and himself.

I think this progression looks authentic. More importantly, I don't think a mafia member goes through this much effort to arrive at a town read of their partner on Day 1 of a game.

Does this mean it's just Porscha?
I will say my town read comes after I decided to neighbour her and was an outright lie lol.

Hey can you maybe not answer my questions before I've asked them? Thanks.

But just to be clear: you're saying you didn't actually town read alison?

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:01 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:09 am
Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:01 am Sorry, her post responding to mine here was.
Can you explain what you saw that made you want to do that?
Her response was false… she DIDNT have an answer to why my conduct was wolfy. She was just throwing shade at someone she didn’t know for townreading someone else she didn’t know without intellectual honesty/a good answer to why it was wolfy and anticipating getting away with it.

And, in hindsight, the fact Alison went hard on that might stem from svs telling her teammates that Kate and I could be dangerous if we found each other as town.

Why did you eventually arrive at a town read on her?

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:00 am I'm ride or die with you Thread Dad, I'm hoping my partners will agree

I hope everyone agrees you should decide the chop (right? i think its the play? you havent read everything but you're sloonei so)

All of us are struggling / flip flopping / hitting our heads against a wall while trying to solve (syn sheep me)

-t

I'm legitimately asking. Is it just Porscha? Fill me in on the deets, tuuts. Why is it wrong to think Porscha is mafia?

Golden's early-game progression on Alison feels noteworthy.

It starts off with some blunt dismissal of her early suspcision. Then it turns into open skepticism. After a brief back-and-forth, he seeks more elaboration from people who know Alison. But then he eventually settles on a town read, specifically citing some similarities he sees between Alison and himself.

I think this progression looks authentic. More importantly, I don't think a mafia member goes through this much effort to arrive at a town read of their partner on Day 1 of a game.

Does this mean it's just Porscha?

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:23 am
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:16 am I wonder how long until someone say my entry is forced.
Why, you have a history of burglary?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:38 am I am rotating through ISOs, reading one page at a time.

I think Dizzy is town.

This is a combination of Dizzy just looking like a person who is taking the thread in organically, and all of the dead soup nazis having their own micro interactions with Dizzy that absolutely do not look like teammate interactions.

I also am struggling to form a view of this game where it mechanically makes sense for Party Crasher to be mafia. Maybe they could be a hydra lost wolf. But having that slot be mafia would be wacky in terms of both mechanics and their (tutuu's) activity in the game.

So is it Golden or is it Porscha?

I am rotating through ISOs, reading one page at a time.

I think Dizzy is town.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:32 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:49 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:36 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:33 pm I do think the Sabi spew on Seanzie looks good for him and would prefer SVS/112 at this time
What is it

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:19 pm Side eyeing Seanzie and Creature joining that Dennis wagon like that
This feels a lot like Sabi knows Dennis is town and is preparing in advance to shade Seanzie and Creature for voting him.
Idk I kind of vibe with the idea of throwing 1 town and 1 wolf partner into the mix for wifom spew reasons like we are doing now

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:42 am if we assume my analysis of wilgy's wolf archetype isn't wrong and my reads on guillo and sig are solid then sabi might actually have given an all town POE to powerwolf us

the last 3 names are porscha dennis HK. dennis is flipped town, porscha is spewed town by the mommy comment, and mac is shielding HK

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:01 am Sorry, her post responding to mine here was.

Can you explain what you saw that made you want to do that?

Golden wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:59 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 12:04 am Do we think the remaining mafia is/are lost?
If we hit every non-lost mafia in this game and just missed the one lost one, that’s bad luck.

At this point Occam’s razor is that the setup for this game is straightforward.

This is kind of how I am operating. We are searching for the proverbial needle in the haystack otherwise.

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:03 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:54 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:52 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:49 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:48 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:41 pm

I'm definitely vanilla civ. Yay game
[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

Don't think GOC usually has VTs, and going out of your way to claim it when you could just say "I'm definitely town" is doubly weird.
Why you no respond to me?
What do you want me to respond to you about? I said my role, you said you'd elim it. Good for you. I'm not going into specifics for obvious reasons so...
Why Golden?
Because the disparity between Golden's desire to loudly announce how much they're townreading Kate and their desire to actually give reasons or do things that might convince people Kate is town is a large one.
I have so much difficulty with the perspective going on here (and just in Alison’s posts generally)

What is my mafia justification for saying I town read Kate then having no desire to convince people?

What is the mafia jusrifucation in Kate awkwardly claiming vanilla?

You’re calling out things you can objectively claim are weird. But why is it bad? Town does weird shot all the time. You gotta be able to figure out wilgys town weird shit from his wolf weird shit.

When someone comes in the thread pointing out weird shit and calling it all suspicious without analysis of why they think it’s wolf-leaning, that bothers me.

Alison, why do you think your above description of my behaviour towards Kate is wolf-leaning?

On the other hand, this is an elaborate three-way exchange if all three of Alison, Seanzie, and Golden are partners here.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:41 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:37 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:32 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:30 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:27 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:25 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:22 pm

I’ve no evidence that’s possible in this game and you’ve no evidence I’ve ever TMIed in my mafia career.
And yet...
I mean I love a good accusation
Exciting, isn't it? The thrill of the chase?

So, care to elaborate?
What am I elaborating on?
I'd prefer the names of your wolf team, but I'll settle on why Kate is town. You've made the claim, but I don't see any thought behind it.
I’ve made a read. It’s gut based. My gut wouldn’t know a thought if it saw one crossing the small intestine.

I'm reading Golden's ISO and he and seanzi have been having this long back-and-forth exchange and I keep waiting for one of them to actually say something.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:49 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:20 pm At this point I wonder if Golden is TMI-ing Kate.

Nobody has given me a good reason to townread Kate yet. It's all just *gestures vaguely at her posts* "that's townie"
All of Golden, Nut and SVS, who seems to know Kate pretty well, are town reading Kate pretty hard. Golden very much so. It just stands to reason that Kate is town, either being TMI-ed or just read correctly. Do you disagree? This is regardless of Kate's posts, which also aren't wolfy imo.

Similarly, I don't think this looks like teammates. On top of that, I think it's just a darn good post from Dizzy.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:46 pm
Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:44 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:41 pm Question about Sabi - Does she AtE as mafia? Or more precisely, is her annoyance this game something she would do as mafia as well as town?
Ate is nai for me.

Don't read me based off emotion since I'm an emotionally volatile person so it's all nai
Alright. I will then ignore it for my read on you. Which is mhh.

I do not think this looks like teammates.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:13 pm Hey.

Party Crasher had his post ready to go; he posted less than a minute after Nanook opened the thread, and they put alot of thought into that post. Not sure how I feel about it all, but this part at least seems sincere, since knowing LC, yeah, he would.

Long Con sided with mafia because he was sentimental and wanted to root for the underdog. I am not sentimental. Siding with the mafia after the town gave me my win is pointless. I have already gotten my win; putting in extra effort is not only meaningless, it actively compromises my ability to make further deals in this vein when I roll 3P in the future. It's strictly suboptimal to do that, so you can be pretty sure I won't do it.

party crasher is not aligned with SVS.

Do we think the remaining mafia is/are lost?

So what actually are Golden's and Porscha's role claims? I have not seem them explained in full yet.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:10 pm Dizzys SR on us feels real and I feel like its towny

I really think it's just Golden. Golden is not pushing a scumread today, he is just defending himself

To answer some points @Dyslexicon

1) We were passive about SVS because I was scared. I lacked confidence and I didnt want to be controlling. I was hoping you guys see something that I dont. Sheep was the one who wrote that post you quoted, not me. After I saw the Scotty flip I felt vindicated in going Kim Jong Un on your asses the next day

2) It is disingenuous to keep saying my PoE was bad. Every single player's PoE was and is bad, considering our situation here, where we can't find the last wolf (or wolves). Yours included, as I know I'm town.

@Sloonei really need your input asap. Since you're the clear, I suggested to my hydra that we just sheep you. Let me know if theres anything we can do in terms of catching you up

-t

I am working this afternoon/evening. I will be home around 10 PM EST. After that, I’ll be free for the remainder of the phase and plan to do some heavy analysis with that time.

This happens to be the least busy weekend I’ve had in about six months. This means I finally have time to do some ISOs. I’ll get started on those later this evening.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:37 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:36 pm
Party Crasher wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:21 pm Should Porscha and Sloonei claim?

-t
Am I not confirmed enough already?
this is really not the time to be playing this way

contribute please

This isn’t a stubbornness thing. I just mean, like, I’m already lock town and I assure you my role claim does absolutely nothing to the state of the game.

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