The Syndicate

Kate wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:00 pm have fun guys! Good luck!!

It was so fun playing again an im so happy to have reconnected with my old buddies
And to have met some new ones... love you guys!

Bye Kate! It was a pleasure playing with you too

I was secretly hoping y’all would pick Llama to come back, since he’s more on brand for the theme of this game and I thought his space apart from the game would have given him some fresh reads. But I get why y’all brought me back. Thanks.

So, before I launch into what I have observed from the great yonder (It’s cold and dark out there), I’d prefer to hear from players as to who their top suspects are as we start the day. I don’t want to color anyone’s reads.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:22 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:58 pm Is there anyone in this game who would qualify ad “inactive”, though? Even DF has checked in at least once per phase.
I guess I mean, low active. I was thinking that as I was writing it as well. I would think that if DF were bad, he would make it a point to play harder though. So, I'm not saying DF in particular. As I mentioned in an earlier post though, I was reading G as kind of a loner mafia, like his team hasn't been there too much for him.

linki:It looks amazing!!! link to recipe? It's my birthday Sunday and I want to make myself something cheesecake-related

Here’s a link to what I used

Caramel apple cheesecakes out of the oven! I did a test batch last night and after sitting in the fridge overnight it solidified and was delicious! (Though peeling, coring and dicing 12 apples by hand wasn’t fun) Thanks for the suggestions of turning it halfway, Elo. I think it made a difference for an even bake.

Also, rez plz

rez plz

I like how Game 2 has 47 pages and only one full day phase in the books.

That’s just too many posts, which is a lot coming from me lol

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:39 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:19 pm The premise is that it's theoretically better for the mafia team to target a player we're less certain about than one who is universally cleared. Gives us one less player to solve.

That's if we suppose the strategy actually works. I don't think most mafia teams would care too much about last-minute POE discussions when choosing their kill target.
I don't see the point and I agree the mafia doesn't care. I've said this a handful of times and I will say it again. This is supposed to be played like an old-school mafia game. These new strategies and plays being suggested for us to incorporate into our game are annoying me. We are here to experience a game like we USED to play, not learn how new mafia players play.

Yo, play how you want to play!

I know personally I don’t remember the eccentricities of how it ‘used’ to be. I just know what helps me with my solve, and play to that end.

Night 3 legacy rainbow! Just in case.

Elo
Kate
Vivax2.0
Golden
DrWilgy
SVS
Michelle
sig
Sloonei
DFaraday
Quin
bea

Idk I figured Vivax’s comment was more tongue in cheek. By saying the strategy out loud, it invalidates the next read he gives.

Anyway, bea is definitely town

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:14 pm
Vivax wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:16 pm I think this is where we are supposed to fabricate towncases on our scumreads in the hope that they catch a bullet
Why would mafia kill themselves

I think viv means let’s talk about people in our POE we think are good so that maybe mafia kills them tonite, to shore up the pool

Hey Sloonei don’t mind me I’m just gonna summon up a post you made earlier in the night:

Spoiler: show

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:56 am Vociferations of G-man: A Study

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:48 pm Very good to see the Oceania contingent checking in.

@Quin- Your post about Sloonei reminded me of your epic performance in Mad Max all those years ago. For a second I misremembered that you and Sloonei dueled it out in grand fashion, but then I recalled that it was you and Dom (why isn't he in this game?) that went toe-to-toe. Sloonei just edged you out by virtue of a lucky protection (provided by LoRab no less, who I haven't seen around here much since that game).

@Golden the Coward- There is a third path for you to take. Just sneak the game in during those few fleeting moments of private time. Your wife and kids will never suspect that you're playing mafia. Mine haven't caught on yet, and I've been doing it for my second kid's entire life.
The first players he addresses in the game are Quin and Golden. My name also comes up, but not as a Player In This Game. He's reminiscing about an old game that he hosted which Quin and I played. It was one of the best games I've ever been a part of on the Syndicate. Look at it. Neither mention here is strictly on-topic. Just banter with a couple Cool Dudes. The Quin blurb might have a little more meat on it, in that G-man is directly bringing up a past scum performance of Quin's. Would he do that to a teammate? Possibly. But also, possibly not. We shall see.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:40 pm Vanishing off to Disney on Ice soon, so I’m checking in while my family eats lunch (haha, suckers).

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:07 am
G-Man wrote: ↑ Very good to see the Oceania contingent checking in.

@Quin- Your post about Sloonei reminded me of your epic performance in Mad Max all those years ago. For a second I misremembered that you and Sloonei dueled it out in grand fashion, but then I recalled that it was you and Dom (why isn't he in this game?) that went toe-to-toe. Sloonei just edged you out by virtue of a lucky protection (provided by LoRab no less, who I haven't seen around here much since that game).

@Golden the Coward- There is a third path for you to take. Just sneak the game in during those few fleeting moments of private time. Your wife and kids will never suspect that you're playing mafia. Mine haven't caught on yet, and I've been doing it for my second kid's entire life.
Everyone seems to think Mad Max is my apex scum performance. In my opinion, my apex was every other game where I played so horribly I may as well have been.

Why are you reminded of it?

I remember that Mad Max came down to you vs Sloonei, but my brain short-circuited for a minute and led me to believe that the epic back-and-forth near endgame was you two but then I remembered it was you vs Dom.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:03 am
Golden wrote: ↑ Hi all. In my head I’m gonna do a vomps and post once a day. In reality I’m gonna get super invested and ignore my kids and job.

This is surreal.
I plan to get only mildly invested but still ignore my kids.
This is the way.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:31 am No aapje game is scuffed
The validity of this post is nullified by the fact that she should be here playing this game with us instead of those new-fangled people.

My votes in D0 poll are:
-Diamond Dog: if you knew him, you’d know why
-SVS: because she’s still probably my favorite baddie teammate of all time.
-Canucklehead: fierce and smart
-Long Con: levity

This is a big post, but the only pertinent part of it is the exchange with Quin. It still tells me very little. It could be a staged casual interaction between two teammates. It does not need to be that.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:43 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:31 am Bea: *Lick*
G-Man: *Lick*
Vagrant doctor, why for art hast thou lickest me? Dost thy tongue perceive me in a particular manner?
Perks up at the licking of DrWilgy. Seems confused by the act. I think the double question indicates a bit of anxiety on G's part, suggesting that he's uncomfortable with Wilgy's attention. Early good look for the Doc.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:20 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:02 pm
thellama73 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:21 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:28 pm I have an idea of who the mafia is, but it's not who I'm voting at the moment. Though, the person I'm voting may also be mafia, who knows.
I do not like this post, nor do I like the vote for Bea. Mind you, I think voting for Bea in general is reasonable because people always tend to trust her, which makes her dangerous on the occasions when she is mafia, but Axey’s vote came without explanation and was a pile on after a (marginally) more justified vote.

Also, why would you not vote for who you think the mafia is?
I’ve learned to just disregard Axe in D1 because he does this as town, mafia, independent and axehole

thellama73 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:09 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:27 pm That is some effective R o L e F I S h i N g

For anyone who misunderstood my intent.
I understand the concept of throwing out votes in movable-vote games to gauge reactions, but at the same time that can be a cop out way to excuse bad behavior. If you successfully start a wagon with your vote, you get what you want, but if it doesn't take you can just claim it was for role fishing and claim immunity from any criticism. Don't expect me not to evaluate you based on your behavior just because you claim it doesn't mean anything.
Viral infections sometimes have a sweeter disposition than NAA early on in games. It is true that he comes across in the same abrasive manner regardless of alignment. If you play a few games with him, you will either 1) learn to ignore some of his punchier tendencies, or 2) auto-sus him anyway because even though it's NAI, it's also not a reason to NOT sus him.

And let's keep in mind that there is a 3P role out there when we're reading people; we're not just living in a binary system.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:16 pm
An unserious post can generate serious discussion.
I don't know what to make of you yet. I like that you're constantly in motion, but it's too early to determine if it's just artifice this time around.

Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:05 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:54 pm There would be nothing more ‘classic mafia’ than DF being D1 lynched for low posting.
Hopefully they posts and we can make a read because lynching a low poster at random is a coin flip.
I want to chop a baddie today, but if we have to mischop, then I'd rather we be wrong about a player whose interactions we can parse through for clues than someone who leaves us stranded in a field with a bag of sand to pound.
Another big post. This has more stuff in it.

First is a bit of an inconclusive acknowledgement of NAA's (now Vivax) meta. G-man talks about his abrasiveness, but does not commit to a stance one way or the other here.
Then he offers an unsolicited town read on DH. This seems to have been unprompted and came somewhat out of left field. DH was under no pressure. I'm inclined to read it favorably for DH/SVS. It looks less awkward for Mafia G-man to offer such unsolicited town read on town player than on a partner here.
He ends by responding to Michelle with a semi-relevant philosophy post. Michelle and Golden have a brief exchange about DH, then G-man weighs in with his bit about preferring to target high-volume posters. It hardly constitutes a substantial interaction, but it marks the first G-man/Michelle interaction in the game.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:11 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:02 pm [VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine

So many little pings going off, but lacking the theory of mind as a civ and tying yourself up in ‘that’s why you’re bad, actually that makes you civ’ logic is enough for a vote.
I seem to recall baddie Eloh being guilty of being too agreeable. I'm not sure we're seeing the same thing here, coward.
G-man responds to Golden's Eloh vote with some Eloh defense. If they are teammates, this is perhaps a bit more coordinated and subtle for Day 1 distancing than I'd usually expect. Not impossible, but I'm gonna call it unlikely.
For Eloh, this looks bad on the surface. But then, I must also ask if Mafia G-man sticks up for his teammate so directly in the thread here? That might also seem unlikely. I'll keep an eye on this.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:15 pm
bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:56 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:11 pm Visions of Day 1’s of old are running through my mind. I’m not inclined to just let it go in the undisciplined manner of yesteryear. I need more meat to chew on from everyone first. I’m thankful that my night away coincided with Night 0 instead of the first half of Day 1.

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:07 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:27 pm That being said, I actually think sig coming out and throwing caution to the wind with regards to his spelling and grammar is townie, if not reckless. Could be WIFOM, but that role is incredibly restrictive to my *vibe* which comes with autocorrect errors and incomplete sentences. So I get it.
The grammar police role is mafia. Making typos does not benefit town.
Valid point indeed! But the civvies have an adverb checker, so we should play it old school like when lie detector roles were still in vogue and pressure everyone to post a unique adverb. Anyone who resists must die.
I agree with what G-man is laying down here.

Adverbs in generaly VASTLY improve communication. They can also HEAVILY color meaning in terms of connoative associations.

(Oh! I almost souned smart up there!)

Vile assertion here, bea. Adverbs are, more often than not, unnecessary, and a sign of a writer who struggles to convey their meaning (or one who seeks to over-convey their meaning, which demeans the intelligence of the reader).

I don't remember your meta like at all beyond the fact that you are sweet and affable like juliets, which makes you dangerous.

(oops- too many tabs open! This was supposed to be posted before that last one. Ah well)
I can easily see this as a mafia interaction. Bea responds to G-man's adverb chatter with some fluff. G responds to her fluff with more fluff. They are acknowledging each other and technically talking about the game, but they are doing so without actually engaging one another in a meaningful way. Bad look for Bea.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:29 pm Very early groupings from a Day 1 dunce:

I'm not inclined to chop anyone with a lower post count than myself, so that means a stay of execution for LoRab, DF, and Kate for now. Let them establish themselves for at least the night phase and we'll see what shakes out.

I feel good about Llama, so he's off the list for now as well. I don't see what some folks are seeing in Eloh (who has been classic mischop bait in the past).

Vivax is shiny and new to me, so I'm inclined to give them the BOTD for now.

I feel like chopping from the top half of the post count will yield the most content to pick through, so that leaves me with a prospective list of Scotty, Sloonei, Golden the Coward, DH, bea, Michelle, and NAA.

Seeing that the Rez Plz event includes only players who die without flipping, I might hesitate to mischop a few of those names because of their potential utility as rezzable civs. I hope that you all can make my decision-making process easier on me by doing things that sort you all out a little more by the time I'm eating my breakfast in the morning.

Hooray for groupings. G-man's "Vote for High-Volume Players" approach means he cannot vote for LoRab (RIP), DF, and Kate. Llama (RIP) gets a town read, and Eloh gets another "I don't see the case" read, but not quite a town read. Vivax1.0 (RIP) gets a pass for being new.
That leaves him with a pool featuring Scotty, myself, Golden, DH/SVS, Bea, Michelle, and NAA/Vivax2.0. That's an awfully wide net, and not a single real suspicion. All of these players are still alive. This list almost certainly includes a teammate or two. By process of elimination, it almost has to. I know it is not me, and I am confident it is not Golden.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:14 pm Voting for Golden the Coward for poopooing on my attempts to sort out game mechanics to the civvies’ advantage. He’s also high post-count, which gives us lots to chew on, right or wrong. His tone is pretty level, but that (along with his posting volume) could be a ploy to place him right at radar level. He’s present, posting, and engaged. At this early stage it’s easy enough to give someone like him a pass for a few days just on those qualities alone.

[VOTE: Golden the Coward] aubergine

I have a meeting tonight that may push right up to eod. I’ll hang around up to the start of the meeting, but I can’t promise that I’ll make it back before the flip.
Confident it's not Golden, you say? Look at G-man over here voting for Golden on Day 1 as if that was a sensible thing to do. I already talked about this post in my previous G-man ISO as one of the main points of suspicion against him. Looking at it now, this looks like an awkward vote where G-man is twisting himself up in knots trying to justify something that has no justification. I think it is a good look for Golden. I would need to look at his reaction to be comfortable saying that, though.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:31 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:20 pm
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:14 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:12 pm I'm gonna Vote For G-Man

I will be a cold dead son of a bitch before I ever use that fucked up vote tag.
I feel the same way, DH. We shouldn't have to use them in this old school game.
I just vastly miss the ordered voting. It made things so much crunchier. I don’t have the time or energy to sort through that now tho.

If they wanted votes to be unchangeable that would be pretty old school. If we lose that role, you might get your wish tho

Very true! Losing the accurate vote order wrecks my ability to take my spreadsheet to Nerd Factor 5 and renders me less useful.
Empty Scotty interaction. Noted. Moving on.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:57 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:29 pm It's a fun mafia skills contest.
Zero skills here as well, but I have work I should be doing, so why not serve up a distraction. Whatcha got?
Very interesting. NAA gets G-man to briefly forget his commitment to the letter V. Does this tell us anything about their relationship? It suggests that G-man is responding very naturally without giving it thought. That could suggest that his guard is completely down here, and he is not overly conscious of his interaction with NAA/Vivax. That would be a positive look for the slot. It could also be that he was trying to put on a laid back, nonchalant affect, and went too far. I'm inclined to say this is a very slightly positive look for NAA/Vivax. But I'm gonna toss it out in the thread right now to give it more attention.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:03 pm Vanishing for most of the phase was not my intention. Here is a short version of what I have so far:

Several tiers based on participation-

Big Talk- Scotty, Sloonei, Golden coward, DH- I would be shocked if there wasn’t a baddie in that group. Maybe two, but lots of productive chatter for the most part.

Llama in a tier of his own, but I still feel loose llama is good llama.

VivAxe or Viv2.0, Eloh, Michelle, Quin- mixed bag here. Eloh was sussed yesterday, Viv2.0 is a reset and still murky on D1 NAA read, Michelle feels most ambiguous (her posts didn’t make any impression on me), and same goes for Quin. These folks are at radar-level. I need to ISO to see if I detected a skimmer.

Kate, sig, Bea, Wilgy- 1/2 seem off the table today and the sig is less memorable that Wilgy licking everything in sight. Under the radar crew- also need ISOs to find manufactured content.

G-Man, LoRab, DF- low posters. Not ideal to find myself in that camp that must be ‘dealt with’ before too long. I saw points about LR’s evasiveness but I’m not exactly one to harp on that without being a hypocrite just yet. DF… just needs to show up for the weekend and get some content before he becomes an afterthought to everything happening in the present.

I will try to speed read the day and make a vote after I get back from wife’s birthday dinner.

Too many null reads for me right now- not a good look. Need to get my head back in the game and sort out some townclears to help my poe.

More groupings. Scotty, Sloonei, Golden, and DH are in the top tier based purely on volume. G-man arbitrarily suggests that one of us is mafia. Note that this is a different stance than his Day 1 High-Volume-Preference. On Day 1, he preferred to vote for high volume players because their flips would provide us with more information. On Day 2, he has now adopted the opinion that the high volume players certainly contain a mafier. Maybe he's telling us the truth. Maybe he's not. As Day 3 developed, I got the impression that G-man was using this stance in an attempt to sow distrust against the most vocal players in the game.

The middle tier of Vivax, Eloh, Michelle, and Quin get aggressively neutral stances. G-man does little more than list their names here. Now that's a group that likely contains a bad guy.

Kate, Sig, Bea, and Wilgy are similarly glossed over. Sig seems to be the closest thing to a suspect in this quartet. That might be a good look for him.

DF is the only "low poster" left alive here. G-man simply states that he should be more active.

These group read posts made it quite easy for G-man to avoid directly implicating his partners. There are scant details, though. I think sig and wilgy look better than bea and kate, for instance.

Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:52 pm Voting LoRab. DH has been producing content. Another day to evaluate is warranted to see if it holds up. Sorry to tie it up. Not trying to cause chaos this time.

[VOTE: LoRab] aubergine

Let the moderator decide.
When given the opportunity to vote between DH and LoRab, G-man chose LoRab. This was another major point in my case against G: everything he had said and done up to this point suggested that he should have voted for DH here. But he didn't. This is a very bad look for DH/SVS.

And now we're getting into G's big ISO posts on Day 3. It is nearly 2 AM and my eyes are too heavy to sift through those posts. I'll pick this back up tomorrow afternoon.

“The middle tier of Vivax, Eloh, Michelle, and Quin get aggressively neutral stances. G-man does little more than list their names here. Now that's a group that likely contains a bad guy.”

Which of those names, gun to head, do you think it likely is?

Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:47 pm I can see the town Sloonei world in this game
The case on Gman with the push, counter wagon to flipped scum are obvious reasons

I can finally talk in a language I can read
Who wants an explanation regarding my yday posts, AMA

Who on GMan’s wagon do you think is bad, if any?
Who on off wagons do you think is bad?

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:03 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:24 pm
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:16 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:33 pm
@Elohcin Walk me through why you think Sheepers are more likely to be mafia and what your current thoughts are on the more sheepy players please.

First of all, sheeping is a new term to me. When I was told what it meant, it sounded to me like lazy play. "Oh, I trust so-and-so, so I'm going to go and vote who they vote." So early in the game, that is ridiculous. Unless you have civvie BTSC with that person you trust, you cannot know for sure if the person you are trusting is civ. A few days into the game, and it is still risky. Late in the game, even if you have info on a person, it still LOOKS like bad behavior, like you are just being lazy and jumping on a train, even if the train just has an engine and a caboose and you are the caboose. Like I said in my first posts about this, I think all players should read the thread and make up their own minds. It's okay to agree with someone and vote like they do, we all do that all the time. You agree with them because you read and accessed the situation yourself. But to blindly follow someone's vote just because you think you can trust them is silly and lazy. No one would have gotten away with that back in the day and they shouldn't now.
I hear you- I find it very difficult to ever have a mindset of sheeping, but as devils advocate, I can say sheeping can be both lazy and productive. If you are feeling not confident in your reads, and do have trust in a civ player that is taking charge, perhaps it’s not a terrible idea to just vote there. Lazy? Yes. But an uninformed faith vote is more productive than a vanity vote for a 3rd wagon that means nothing in a game where town’s only real weapon is the vote.
Okay, I can see your point, esp about the vote being the only real town weapon. But, how can you be sure you are following the right wagon/person?

Only in that if I haven’t been following along and previously trusted a player or two, follow the leads of those player might be the best move you’ve got.

Lazy -and- productive

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:55 pm G-Man didn’t vote in self-defense. There’s two explanations for that in my mind. I read Sloonei as town, personally, so I lean more towards the town one. (There’s a third possibility too - “G was just too busy”)

1) G-Man and Sloonei are w/w. I could definitely see G being the type to take the hit over Sloonei because he felt Sloonei had more ‘win equity’. If sloon is mafia right now, not being nked isn’t even suspicious.

2) Sloonei is town, and G-Man wanted the wifom of people wanting to think the reason why he didn’t self-vote is (1). That’s why he made the post about Sloonei being a better town asset than him.

Also, GMan is expendable in the broader sense on his team as the insanifier is far less useful to the team as a whole. Mafia obviously don’t want to lose their Dead Red, and if they haven’t used their Pink ability yet, that one. Though you have to think that was used asap. In which case, that would be a mafia member that wouldn’t be a surprise to be a good candidate for bussing for cred sooner rather than later.

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:46 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:33 pm I think DrWilgy looks even better if we remember that one player didn’t have a vote. I still don’t know if that player doesn’t know they don’t have a vote, but Wilgy decisively putting over GMan with +2 is a pretty good sign just in case one of the other 4 voters (not counting Rico) didn’t have a working vote.
Please. Wilgy does not look better.

He tastes better.

Y’all need to start holstering your tongues

This is how the pandemic starts back up again

I think DrWilgy looks even better if we remember that one player didn’t have a vote. I still don’t know if that player doesn’t know they don’t have a vote, but Wilgy decisively putting over GMan with +2 is a pretty good sign just in case one of the other 4 voters (not counting Rico) didn’t have a working vote.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:28 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:07 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:33 pm @Quin I probably missed it but can you walk me through the following

1. You’re Kate vote
2. Why Sig is the most amazing player ever (500 word minimum with 3 sources formatted in APA)
3. Who post Gman flip you think the mafia team is

@Elohcin Walk me through why you think Sheepers are more likely to be mafia and what your current thoughts are on the more sheepy players please.

@DFaraday if you could just give some quick general thoughts that would be great

@Scotty pay attention to me and my jokey posts + what do you think about Golden right now?
>looks for coded message in sig’s jokey post
>determine that the past letter of every sentence spells out a web address
>put into google
>oh no I’m in the darkweb
>sig what have you gotten me into
>there is a pounding on my door
>it’s the police
>oh no, not again

Okay team one civ down let’s see who else we can get arrested

I don’t think you’re civ or mafia

what are you

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:16 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:33 pm
@Elohcin Walk me through why you think Sheepers are more likely to be mafia and what your current thoughts are on the more sheepy players please.

First of all, sheeping is a new term to me. When I was told what it meant, it sounded to me like lazy play. "Oh, I trust so-and-so, so I'm going to go and vote who they vote." So early in the game, that is ridiculous. Unless you have civvie BTSC with that person you trust, you cannot know for sure if the person you are trusting is civ. A few days into the game, and it is still risky. Late in the game, even if you have info on a person, it still LOOKS like bad behavior, like you are just being lazy and jumping on a train, even if the train just has an engine and a caboose and you are the caboose. Like I said in my first posts about this, I think all players should read the thread and make up their own minds. It's okay to agree with someone and vote like they do, we all do that all the time. You agree with them because you read and accessed the situation yourself. But to blindly follow someone's vote just because you think you can trust them is silly and lazy. No one would have gotten away with that back in the day and they shouldn't now.

I hear you- I find it very difficult to ever have a mindset of sheeping, but as devils advocate, I can say sheeping can be both lazy and productive. If you are feeling not confident in your reads, and do have trust in a civ player that is taking charge, perhaps it’s not a terrible idea to just vote there. Lazy? Yes. But an uninformed faith vote is more productive than a vanity vote for a 3rd wagon that means nothing in a game where town’s only real weapon is the vote.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:12 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:53 pm Current vote total as of ~7 hours left in Day 3:

GMan (4): SVS, Richochet, Scotty, DrWilgy
sig (3): Vivax, Kate, Golden
SVS (2): DFaraday, sig
Kate (1): Quin
Quin (1): GMan
Vivax (1): Sloonei

Not Voting (3): bea, Elo, Michelle

Currently insanified: Michelle, sig
Can somebody who is not me reflect on the fact that Sloonei was not a wagon at this point, and only became one in the latter half of the day as a direct counter to the G-man wagon?
Yes! I can speak to that

I was the first one to vote you after this vote count was posted. I don’t know if anyone posted any lists after, because i was gone. So everyone else on the wagon as it stands came on after me

Followed by SVS for Sloonei
Michelle for GMan
Vivax for Sloonei
Golden for GMan
bea to tie it for Sloonei
At some point I think Ricochet switched to GMan
Then Wilgy put the finishing blow on GMan

This does look like a potential sticking point for malleable counterwagon as the day got closer to ending.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:12 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:53 pm Current vote total as of ~7 hours left in Day 3:

GMan (4): SVS, Richochet, Scotty, DrWilgy
sig (3): Vivax, Kate, Golden
SVS (2): DFaraday, sig
Kate (1): Quin
Quin (1): GMan
Vivax (1): Sloonei

Not Voting (3): bea, Elo, Michelle

Currently insanified: Michelle, sig
Can somebody who is not me reflect on the fact that Sloonei was not a wagon at this point, and only became one in the latter half of the day as a direct counter to the G-man wagon?

Yes! I can speak to that

I was the first one to vote you after this vote count was posted. I don’t know if anyone posted any lists after, because i was gone. So everyone else on the wagon as it stands came on after me

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:36 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:30 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:25 pm @sig i can definitely see bad Bea, her vote last night was a big fat WTF imo.

I posted some over the weekend about her, I’ll try to elaborate on that for you later if time allows.
Okay nice, yea the tie/vote was definitely a bad look. Do you think it fits into her meta more to try and save a teammate or throw them under the bus?
Bea is an awesome bad teammate to have. She is loyal to a fault. This is bad or good; good Bea is one of the few people I know who really thinks of the civs as a team, just like the baddies.

Bea would take a chance to save a teammate, yeah.

welp. This is one huge point against bea.
And one slightly smaller point for Sloonei.

@sig I’ve removed my tinfoil hat of Golden of late. That thing was itchy.

He’s messy and doing contributory solving while still hedgy. I think it frustrating at times, but this isn’t anti-civ behavior.

Could he still be? Yes, but my hair looks nice right now and I don’t feel like putting on that tinfoil hat again right now.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:33 pm @Quin I probably missed it but can you walk me through the following

1. You’re Kate vote
2. Why Sig is the most amazing player ever (500 word minimum with 3 sources formatted in APA)
3. Who post Gman flip you think the mafia team is

@Elohcin Walk me through why you think Sheepers are more likely to be mafia and what your current thoughts are on the more sheepy players please.

@DFaraday if you could just give some quick general thoughts that would be great

@Scotty pay attention to me and my jokey posts + what do you think about Golden right now?

>looks for coded message in sig’s jokey post
>determine that the past letter of every sentence spells out a web address
>put into google
>oh no I’m in the darkweb
>sig what have you gotten me into
>there is a pounding on my door
>it’s the police
>oh no, not again

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:25 pm Adding onto this I’m really vibing with Scotty’s thoughts and while his/Golden D1 defense of me was odd (bit pocketish) it isn’t enough to raise the eyebrows.

I’ve mentioned this before, but your thoughts on players throughout this game has basically mirrored mine, and if they didn’t start producing results, I’d be entirely suspicious. As it is, I’m less suspicious only because GMan is down and was in the POE.

You are in my POE based on the wagons yesterday, but currently at the tail end. I have an extremely light Townlean on you.

I look at the wagon structure and and am full speed ahead on bea being bad. Her partners are tbd, but she seems the most likely hit

sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:24 pm I’m gonna go ahead and vote for Quin. I think Llama + being off major wagon + the peanut gallery votes + Sloonie GMan analysis is a pretty good reason to start there.

The more I read the more I think Bea could be mafia but I’m approaching that cautiously.

I could still see Golden being mafia but that’s more tinfoil right now I do want to ISO him though

And then last is up in the air again. I do think we’ve got a high poster so that means either DH/SVS, Golden, or Scotty since I doubt a mafia team of Sloonie and Gman wouldn’t be able to create a third wagon.

I’ll say for SVS is that she plays an amazing game as mafia and I can’t read her worth a damn BUT DH game was very Civvie near the end. The only caveat would be if DH/SVS entire team is filled with less active players then I could see the in thread anger

To this point, I think it should be noted that the most prevalent wagons for most of the day were as follows

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:53 pm Current vote total as of ~7 hours left in Day 3:

GMan (4): SVS, Richochet, Scotty, DrWilgy
sig (3): Vivax, Kate, Golden
SVS (2): DFaraday, sig
Kate (1): Quin
Quin (1): GMan
Vivax (1): Sloonei

Not Voting (3): bea, Elo, Michelle

Currently insanified: Michelle, sig

GMan was almost always the leading wagon. His days were numbered from the onset.

Notes:
-bea hadn’t really been around D3, busy with work. If bea is bad, she’s not doing anything to help start a counter wagon.
-if DF is bad, he at least could be seen *trying* to start a counterwagon on SVS, but his playstyle isn’t conducive to being the conductor on another wagon.

This leaves a myriad of other possibilities for partners.
Quin is entirely possible, posting a shallow indictment of Kate and leaving it at that.
Sloon actually jumped off GMan onto Vivax after I posted a vote count 17 hours left into the day, where he sat around and picked at lint in his belly button for a while.

I think the writing was on the wall for GMan, and, especially if low posters are on the team, it makes it VERY hard to coordinate a counter wagon on anyone. Sloon, if civ, is actually a hard one to take down as a miselim I would expect. Sig could have been a scapegoat for sure, with his 2 votes, but that one didn’t take off. If he is bad, this also explains it, because he was cursed and would have a hard time leading a counter wagon as a counter wagon himself and his mush mouth

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:16 pm I also suspect Michelle, fwiw. But it is hard because I've never played with her before. And she does fit the low poster theory.

I’m actually feeling better about her after a perusal through her ISO. In terms of logical progressions, she is at least following through and I don’t see any holes.

Obviously mafia would want to have logical progression in their posts, but there’s been a cadence in her posts, especially in D1, that don’t scream baddie. I can’t put my finger on it, but I’m content to just let her find her place again. I’m thinking lost town, especially with how busy she’s been recently.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:06 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:04 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:59 am Why was I a better option than G-man?
I am feeling DH the more I play this game.

Just this morning I said that I did not feel any of the other possible wagons forming, and when someone else voted for you, I moved my vote so if there were two wagons, they would both be people I suspected.

That’s why you. I suspected you. I felt if I helped form a second wagon on someone I suspected, then someone I suspected was bound to be lynched.
Why was it important to have two options when you were okay with the first option?

Like…what? What kind of question is this, Mr. ‘I’m going to vote for other people throughout the day even though I have a main suspicion’?

If Sloonei is bad, the double wolf wagons just now are hilarious- bea is still probably bad and so of course she would be confused as to who to vote, because they’re both her partners.

And then Quin is the last one and we’ve got ourselves a case closed.

Go go gadget CONFIRMATION BIAS

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:26 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:59 am Why was I a better option than G-man?
I think this was directed at SVs, but I’ll answer for myself:
-there’s a lot of mystery as to your involvement in the D1 elimination
-your flip would help substantiate my feeling that you just seem off from my perception of your civ game (this reasoning is not defensible)
-your flip would substantiate GMan (and even my own tinfoil) claiming the thread was being led astray by the high posters. You are at the top of that list.

I must say that after coming down from reveal that GMan is bad, I’m still left in a lurch about you. Because
-GMan started peddling the thought that high posters might be leading the thread AFTER he already had a high amount of suspicion.
-GMan would most likely be in spew mode (throwing shit against the wall and perhaps making his teammates look better in the interim)
-You voting for GMan immediately is a risk that could go either way- you (probably) didn’t know if votes were changeable at the time, and then you’d be stuck there voting for a partner if bad. It can go either way.

-oh DUH and the last, big one, is I just need to know what role you are for the solve. If you are one of several town roles, this helps my solve of making other people look better or worse.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:59 am Why was I a better option than G-man?

I think this was directed at SVs, but I’ll answer for myself:
-there’s a lot of mystery as to your involvement in the D1 elimination
-your flip would help substantiate my feeling that you just seem off from my perception of your civ game (this reasoning is not defensible)
-your flip would substantiate GMan (and even my own tinfoil) claiming the thread was being led astray by the high posters. You are at the top of that list.

I must say that after coming down from reveal that GMan is bad, I’m still left in a lurch about you. Because
-GMan started peddling the thought that high posters might be leading the thread AFTER he already had a high amount of suspicion.
-GMan would most likely be in spew mode (throwing shit against the wall and perhaps making his teammates look better in the interim)
-You voting for GMan immediately is a risk that could go either way- you (probably) didn’t know if votes were changeable at the time, and then you’d be stuck there voting for a partner if bad. It can go either way.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:59 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:56 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:42 am
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:38 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.

This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.

Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?

Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior there.
Yes, this makes sense. Thinking back on g-man's play, it seems like he was doing just enough to try to get by trying to look civ without rocking the boat too much to gain suspicion. As if he were going it pretty much alone and trying to hold it all together. This doesn't help alleviate my gut suspicion of DH, now SVS. And neither does SVS' lack of voting Gman. I don't know why I can't shake it. Does ANYone else feel the same way?
Not only did SVS not vote G-man, but G-man also performed a lovely mental gymnastics routine to avoid voting for DH the day before.
I actually was the first to vote G Man, and I switched to Sloonei to get a wagon going on a second person I suspected instead of letting it form on someone I didn’t.

I’m definitely not G Mans teammate, and neither was DH. I have no clue why G didn’t vote for DH.

In any case in my first big post I said I thought G was shady. So you can believe it, or not, but I’m civ.
I was the first to vote for G-man, actually. I voted the instant the poll opened.

this is true. I remember it as if it were yesterday

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:53 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:23 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:15 am Y’all really like pretzels, don’t you?
my dentist says I need to avoid hard foods like pretzels for about 2 weeks
Maybe you should also stop trying to twist yourself into knots then!

Boom, roasted

Also! If bea is bad, SVS looks even better for her unprompted remarks earlier in the day casting doubt on civ bea

Kate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:50 am
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:38 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.

This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.

Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?

Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior there.
Yes, this makes sense. Thinking back on g-man's play, it seems like he was doing just enough to try to get by trying to look civ without rocking the boat too much to gain suspicion. As if he were going it pretty much alone and trying to hold it all together. This doesn't help alleviate my gut suspicion of DH, now SVS. And neither does SVS' lack of voting Gman. I don't know why I can't shake it. Does ANYone else feel the same way?
I don't. She's got her kid gloves on in a sense, when it comes to Bea, but bea is looking more and more bad to me and svs noticed that right away. If she were bad, I believe she'd shy away from accusing bea at all. Also, she can read me like a newspaper, and I've never seen a bad svs defend a civ me as well as she has here.

This is exactly my thought.

In a world where Sloonei is civ, bea voting not only to tie the game with a self-professed poor read on the game at large, but to potentially save GMan is a double red flag.

bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:15 pm I can see early game reasons why one might feel that way and have before. I think DH was there in frustration before he subbed out. But I tend to agree wirh you on that point viv.

This is responding to Viv’s comment that a civ should never be fine getting miselimmed, which is what GMan was doing.
Then, 20 minutes later:

bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:34 pm I am a confused and no lies feel like any vote I make is rushed and illinformed.

Also i missed why svs voted sloon? It looked in the thread like she sused gman.

bea wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:35 pm Dgoing with the tie. I hope rev knows better than i do.

Nothing in that progression makes sense. Does a civ bea have to make sense? No, but I’d expect a better explanation for doing 2 nakedly hedgey and scummy things.

bea is mafia for these actions alone.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:15 am Y’all really like pretzels, don’t you?

my dentist says I need to avoid hard foods like pretzels for about 2 weeks

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:13 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.

This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.

Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?

Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior there.
Why can’t I just be town?

Why can’t I be a professional basketball player?

I understand the desire to write off GMan voters or at least give them credit, but I think context is important. When I get back from dentist I’ll look at timing, but I’d hazard to guess that mafia are on his wagon. Putting the initial votes and not moving are probably the best look. Halfway through the day, I remember reading GMan throwing in comments into his wall posts like ‘I know some of you will continue to snicker at my futile attempt to live’ which is a blatant rolling over and waiting for the train. Based on that, I’d be looking at players that joined it later.

Oh, and this is all assuming Sloonei is civ…which isn’t a given yet, mind you.

Sloonei is a player that I already talked about before I left before deadline that conspicuously jumped ship from GMan even though he kept saying he could still vote there. I’m at least partially guilty of this too, as I didn’t get a chance to come on in the last 5 hours of the day, hence leaving my vote on Sloonei. But his jump onto Vivax to…get him talking as a pressure vote (I guess?) amounted to nothing, and his talking points dissolved into non confident reads like ‘GMan I guess is my biggest suspect right now’ but if I recall, this was more hindsight, back end of the day reads. I don’t want to make revisionist history, so I’ll have to go back and check those, but that’s how I was viewing his play. I feel like I had a hawk eye for Sloonei that back half of the day.

He may just be civ, in which case, the worldview should shift to using his reads as a resource. I just feel like until GMan flipped, Sloonei’s reads have been mostly nebulous, and fishing for someone else to make a stronger stance.

In other news, that bea vote tho

I don’t need a root canal! According to my new dentist. So there’s that.

Good going fam. GMan was a surefire winner!

ohh I misread his post

sig wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:39 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:59 pm I didn’t see the poll first and I’ve not expressed any discomfort in voting sig in the least, *especially* given he followed through on ignoring the day.
Slomy muvi iothir carsir ur mefoe lien

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

sii yua ell pust carsi ixpict bog bog pust (meybi)

“Slimy move either curser or mafia line/lean

See you all post curse expect big big post maybe

This sounds like a convenient vote and reason.

I’ll be seeing a show tonite during end of day so I probably need to get my final vote in in the next couple hours.

I also see poll ends almost an hour late today. Heads up everyone!

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:58 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:54 pm @Sloonei how surprised would you be on a scale of {1} to {birds aren’t real} if Quin were to flip bad?
I would not be super shocked. I still believe he is town, but that is no longer my strongest read in the game. He is another player I plan to revisit if I have the time. My read on him has not updated much since Day 1, while other reads have strengthened.

@Golden does this answer make you feel
A) better about Sloonei
B) worse about Sloonei
C) both a and d
D) neither b or c

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:58 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:46 pm @bea not sure whether you’re allowed to answer this but did you know whether your voweling was a curse or a punishment? Just yes or no is fine (if you’re allowed)
Also q for the crowd ahead of a bea response…

If sig genuinely thinks he’s been cursed by a third party at this point, is that AI?

If sig knows he’s been punished for not voting, is calling it a curse AI?

Orpheus knew he would be cursed to lose Eurydice if he looked behind him. A curse is a curse, whether or not it is something you could control or not

At this stage in the game, I don’t think it is out of the question mafia would be cutting losses and having a slight bussing party either. 4 mafia can’t hide forever (unless town is completely dysfunctional) and if GMan is bad, I wouldn’t rule out some of the ones that are currently on him or have talked about voting him

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:53 pm He did also iso nearly everyone else.

The town read on me and sloon was not long before he did the isos.

The POE was after he finished the isos.

So the changed read on us really sticks out to me when I iso him.

Progression aside, if GMan were to flip today and flips town, then I would absolutely be going down his tinfoil route too

@Sloonei how surprised would you be on a scale of {1} to {birds aren’t real} if Quin were to flip bad?

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:48 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:46 pm *Golden seems momentarily unaware that llama is dead.

Llama should be aware of his own death.
Deep philosophical question

As the linki role told us at beginning of the day, there is no spoon.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:28 pm
G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:35 pm Vamoosing for a bit to get some work done (because, like it or not, playing mafia doesn't pay the bills). Here's where my ISO's stand so far:

Towncore:
-Bea
-Eloh
-G-Man
-Kate

POE:
-DF
-DrWilgy

More to come tonight.
It always gives me the heebie-jeebies when someone puts themself in their own town core.

I had the same read when I responded to that post. Llama did it but that’s sorta llama’s MO. I don’t remember how often GMan is oft to do that

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