The Syndicate

Yay I won,


Good game everyone I enjoyed it even though I tunneled on two good cylons almost the entire game.

Also thanks Golden it looked super complex and was fun.

Epignosis wrote:I am voting G-Man.

That "another thread" business is much too much for me. I encourage his lynch.

If it's a good lynch I will consider the outed one tomorrow, but I won't necessarily commit to it.

Can you explain the "another thread" thing? I seem to have missed it.

I do only have two major people right now, however I could see Gman or drum being mafia. I'd be okay with a Gman lynch today, but would rather lynch wilgy.

linki: Why me?

So Say we all.


I want to lynch Wilgy today please. I don't think there are that many good cylons and if we say Epi is one of them then I doubt Wilgy is also.

So mafia team
SVS = Cavil
nutella = Simon O'Neill
Leoben Conoy
Aaron Doral
Caprica Six

That would be a team of five
With both number eights being good/independent.
and D'Anna Biers being independent.

This is a game for 29 people, so I think a starter team of 5 with two to three of the Final 5 being mafia could be accurate in theory we might have one other cylon being a civ or perhaps an independent/

For the F5 there is no guarantee any could be mafia, assuming the F5 didn't die then they wouldn't have come back as mafia.
So I think it is very unlikely that Wilgy and Epi are both civs at this point Epi is either hard core bussing or is a civ, I'm leaning civ right now I think we need to lynch Wilgy today.

I also think OA is mafia and should be lynched at some point, but I'd rather see Wilgy go first.

Id be willing to do it at some point today.
Also Cavil could be just like a shadow so active, but cant really do anything.
JJJ what do you think of Matts theory about everyone flipping mafia?

If we don't believe that then we had our eight real cylons.
Glorfindel flipped civ
7 left
Lorab flipped third party
6 left
nutella and SVS flipped mafia
5 ish left?

So we know that we have at least one civ cylon and one independent cylon, two cylons have flipped mafia. We have 5 cylons left, I'm guessing three are mafia members.
Two of these are Wilgy and Epi
Out of the final five four came back, meaning the other F5 is alive.
Out of those four two have flipped mafia, this brings the current known mafia count to 4. This is why I'm thinking we have three to four mafia cylons left that would mean in theory the mafia team is seven or eight strong. With the other three final five being civs or independents.
The other scenario is that all the final five are mafia or we have a recruiting element in play.

I'm willing to leave Epi alone for the time if we start lynching to many civs I'd like to see him go. I want to lynch Wilgy tomorrow. He has been on the chopping block for awhile yet never seems to get lynched. I'd also like to pursue a Gman and OA lynch.

I want to lynch Wilgy

lynching cavil wouldn't make anyone look better in my mind. Unless Cavil can't be lynched and we attempt to lynch them then I'd eye those who tried to push the wagon away from Dex onto Cavil.

I could see Matts theory being true, but then again I'm not so sure I think both Daisy and Dex came back looking scummy so they could be mafia, but that is something to keep in mind. I would be okay with trying to lynch Cavil at some point soon, if these people are really mafia then we're doing good.

I also think it is time to lynch Wilgy I'm seeing his baddie meta .

Never caught up won't be doing so tonight since I'm super tired, voting for Spacedaisy.

Spacedaisy

Got my graduation party today, (pray that I don't get disowned by any of my relatives please) :P
So I won't be active much if at all today, but will be on in time to vote tonight.

I was to lynch Wilgy, Space, Gman, and still maybe Epi.

I doubt Polo is on there team since I'd see no reason for him to go after SVS when she had hardly no suspicion, true she came back but it still seems stupid.

ObscureAllure wrote:That was to sig. And I didn't say Mafia civvies (isn't that a paradox?!), I said Mafia humans.

Dex is a member of the final five therefore he isn't a human at all OA.

So say we all!

I agree with the admiral we've got the momentum lets continue to push it.

The mafia are trying to trip us up by killing some of the universal civ reads, but I don't think that'll stop us right now.

I'm agaisnt wasting a phase trying to lynch Cavil, I think it is better to pursue the other baddies especially in light of Dex flipping bad.
So We know one of the final five is mafia, lets assume 2 to 3 are, plus the original baddies. How big a mafia team do we think we have? I also don't buy OA's claim that we have mafia civs I think she is a bad cylon attempting to distract us to civ hunt.
GTH
juliets bad
Nerolunar civ
Spacedaisy bad.

Not GTH
I'd put Juliets as a null, Nero as a slight civ read, and Daisy as a slight bad read. I'd much rather lynch Wilgy or OA today.

@Polo who would you like to lynch who do you think is mafia and why?

The old one isnt with us in my mind, so whoever is next in command right? That would be Lee.

Okay unless Epi is like hard core bussing I think I was wrong about him, I see no reason for him to vote for Dex if he was also cavil aligned true he could be bussing, but that seems foolish with two mafia members dead already.

I'm considering a Wilgy, OA, or Drum lynch tomorrow. I hated Drum's reason for voting Epi as well espacilly in light of SVS flip. I think we have mafia on the Cavil wagon as well, I think they know he can't be lynched and tried to push him ahead in the vote count in an attempt to not lynch Dex their teammate.

Post 9 Wilgy I am and your vote is way late, and I did build a case on you and gace reasoning.

@INH I've seen such powers before on other sites and some variants here on TS, I doubt we can lynch Cavil/SVS and seeing how she wanted to be lynched last time I wouldn't be surprised if she had some sort of power if she is voted for. At the very least I think it will result in a no lynch.

Epignosis wrote:Nine.

Spacedaisy didn't vote or post at all today.

8

Do you think she is laying low or just afk?

Post 7 I don't like those last two votes for Cavil at all especially since i suspect voting at all for Cavil can give them some sort of power.

I really really reallly want to lynch wilgy tomorrow.

linki: If it is before then we are still on the last day I think?

Post 7
ALSO per the new law


I suspect John Cavil

Also I'll be voting for Wilgy I'd rather he be lynched then Dex.

linki: I thought JJJ was going to vote forWilgy?

sig wrote:

sig wrote:Post 3

I'll be writing up some stuff about SVS/Epi interaction later. I think Wilgy comes out looking bad from JJJ's ISO and I still believe he should be lynched.

Right now I'd be fine with an Epi, Wilgy, and to a lesser extent OA lynch. I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD VOTE FOR CAVIL AT ALL!
Also I see no reason to vote for Polo that is strange.

Post 4 yay well this never happened. My day got really busy with the grandparents visiting and getting ready for my graduation party.
I will do it during the night phase I guess the quick skim is that Epi didn't look that much worse just a bit, and Wilgy looked much worse imo.

Also again why are we lkynching Cavil? I think two things will happen either he will get more power or we will have wasted a day phase, this is stupid just ignore them.

ObscureAllure wrote:Go for it. Lynch me. You guys have been so blindly led by the Mafia (who aren't even effin CYLONS! for the most part!) to kill all the cylons. I've been literally harping on it since the big inning of the game, I don't know how much more vocal I can be with out getting punished again. You're hunting the WEONG PEOPLE!!!! You want to kill all the good cylons while the bad humans win the game? Go for it.

PS: my vote for polo wasn't weird, it was annoyance for something he did to me. DERPPPPPPPPP

This makes no sense, nobody is saying we should kill all the cylons if they were we'd be lynching WIlgy and Epi today not someone else. I wouldn't mind lynching OA at some point. I'd be fine with a Gman lynch, but will hold my vote for the time and if it isn't needed to vote for Gman I'll be voting for Epi or Wilgy. Since they should be lynched.

Post 6
ignore my mentioning of Gman I meant Dex, I have no idea how I confused there name.

Post 5

Also there is no proof we have bad humans all the humans have been good who have flipped so far.

linki: I'm GTH new Dex as bad and liked your case on him, I wouldn't mind voting for him, which makes me less likely to vote for you.

Also OA nutella was bad, so cylon death wise we're doing good. Two mafia, one Independent, and one civ.

sig wrote:Post 3

I'll be writing up some stuff about SVS/Epi interaction later. I think Wilgy comes out looking bad from JJJ's ISO and I still believe he should be lynched.

Right now I'd be fine with an Epi, Wilgy, and to a lesser extent OA lynch. I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD VOTE FOR CAVIL AT ALL!
Also I see no reason to vote for Polo that is strange.

Post 4 yay well this never happened. My day got really busy with the grandparents visiting and getting ready for my graduation party.
I will do it during the night phase I guess the quick skim is that Epi didn't look that much worse just a bit, and Wilgy looked much worse imo.

Also again why are we lkynching Cavil? I think two things will happen either he will get more power or we will have wasted a day phase, this is stupid just ignore them.

ObscureAllure wrote:Go for it. Lynch me. You guys have been so blindly led by the Mafia (who aren't even effin CYLONS! for the most part!) to kill all the cylons. I've been literally harping on it since the big inning of the game, I don't know how much more vocal I can be with out getting punished again. You're hunting the WEONG PEOPLE!!!! You want to kill all the good cylons while the bad humans win the game? Go for it.

PS: my vote for polo wasn't weird, it was annoyance for something he did to me. DERPPPPPPPPP

This makes no sense, nobody is saying we should kill all the cylons if they were we'd be lynching WIlgy and Epi today not someone else. I wouldn't mind lynching OA at some point. I'd be fine with a Gman lynch, but will hold my vote for the time and if it isn't needed to vote for Gman I'll be voting for Epi or Wilgy. Since they should be lynched.

Post 3

I'll be writing up some stuff about SVS/Epi interaction later. I think Wilgy comes out looking bad from JJJ's ISO and I still believe he should be lynched.

Right now I'd be fine with an Epi, Wilgy, and to a lesser extent OA lynch. I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD VOTE FOR CAVIL AT ALL!
Also I see no reason to vote for Polo that is strange.

So say we all

post 2

SVS also didn't want to lynch Epi in fact she tried to redirect yesterdays lynch away from both of them onto someone else. I'll be making a post about their interaction later today, I also HIGHLY suggest we don't put Cavil number 1 I suspect it will just result in a no lynch.

SO SAY WE ALL


HA TAKE THAT MAFIA YOU FAILED WITH ANOTHER KILL.



post 1

only one gloat post a cycle thanks to this limit.

Post 4

I don't think Glorfy was the seemer I'm like 94 percent certain he was a real civ. Unless we want to get super tin foily and say both JJJ and Glorfindel are mafia with SVS, but as I said it is highly unlikely.

Wilgy's vote for SVS was very meh, he just trusted people and voted correct? Bus potential there.
Drum is mafiaish for his vote and if Epi is a civ then I think there is one other mafia on his wagon, assuming our breakdown is 5 to 6 baddies.

I really hate juilets and Dex's votes, JJJ also to a lesser extent. I can see Soko's reasoning since Wilgy is a cylon, but I really disliked juliets vote and explanation .
Juliets voted at a time where there were three votes on Epi and two on SVS.
JJJ and Dex voted when Epi and SVS where tied. I think at least one of the players who avoided both wagons was mafia.

I really reallly really hate that Epi is casting shade on JJJ and INH/Silver. First why wouldn't mafia say they'd never vote for someone, second it seems like he is trying to distract from him.

ALSO another thing that just occurred to me regarding the SVS lynch the mafia knew she would come back to life so I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia voted for her for this reason. Imagine both her and Epi are mafia, Epi would get civ points and would help SVS be unkillable same with Wilgy.

Post 3
I wouldn't mind having a private discussion Mr. evil cylon man discussions are always fun even with mafia who try to kill you.

Post 2

Rabbit what do you mean? How does this prove anything?

Number 1

I suggest we ignore Cavil/SVS for the time and lynch the other baddies, I'm thinking the rest of her team needs to be dead before we can lynch her again? Some sort of mechanic like that. OR she will be piggybacking off of another player and tied to them. This is a long shot though.

I need to think things over in light of this lynch, Epi could've bussed his teammate but the Drum vote was just terribly, if I hadn't have voted I probably would've voted elsewhere. Not on SVS since I didn't think she was scummy, but on Wilgy. I'd say Polo is less likely to be mafia, but it isn't impossibly as is Daisy.

If Epi is mafia then the wagononmics don't matter if he isn't then I think some portions of it are more telling. I don't think Wilgy/Epi are cleared in any way from this lynch, nor is anyone on the Epi wagon. I don't think Nero's vote is that odd since he did say he was busy and I believe that, but Drum's lynching for information and still saying all cylons are bad is scummy. Espaiclly since he earlier said they weren't all bad
.
So I think we should lynch Epi for information about this lynch. :P

Post 5

I don't see an issue with Rico's opinion of Epi, and i think his outburst was genuine.

I'll be voting for Epi today for reasons previously stated.

Epi


Also I don't want to lynch one of the final five the first day they're back.

Post 4 I dislike Nero's play right now to but, I don't want to lynch him and know I'm wary of an Epi lynch. As I've said I'd also be fine with a Wilgy lynch. However, I still think Epi is mafia I'm just slightly less sure.

@JJJ I agree with you on everyone but Epi and BlackRock. I'm not currently suspicious of her. I will reread the rico vs Epi thing as well and see if I see what you see.

post 3

I think Glorfindel was right about Epi. Glor not only said we were in a bad spot, which Epi argued about and said we were doing good. Glorfindel also said Epi was evil.

@Dex Why are you basing anything on lore! It's proven that lore is wrong and now knowing Glorfindel was a civ he told us such. Epi is playing you all like a fool just like in Turf Wars. ALSO @Epi I new you were a civ in Downton Abby and never saw the Turf War Epi which I'm seeing this game.

Post 2

No Rico I didn't read the front page I also misunderstood what Golden meant, I assumed we would only see the alignment of people who we lynched starting today.

So we now know some cylons are independents maybe, does this confirm a a recruiter role?

Also seeing how we know for a fact Glorfindel was a civ, which I said multiply times thank you very much Sig for getting it right :P, I believe we must lynch Epi today, there is no way that both can be civ imo and as Rico said we've left him alive for eight phases as an outed cylon since we thought he was the good number 8, turns out that isn't true. I also propose after that we lynch Wilgy.
Another interesting thing Long con was a civ yet his forced win con would have made us kill civ aligned cylons. What do we make of that?

So four people got brought back, it could be as simply as they were the ones with the time to return to the game, or they could be the final five. If they died I'm assuming the other member of the five is either still alive or mod killed. However, is it possibly we lynched and the mafia killed four of the final five if it was a randomized thing created at the beginning of the game? That seems like a stretch.

I think we shouldn't treat these players as civ cleared.

Responses to Epi in dead red.

Epignosis wrote:

sig wrote:I'm not desperate about anything, I looked everything over and I don't see how Glorfindel could be mafia, his game play was super civvie for him and his EOD actions reminded me of Arkham not Star Wars at all. The difference is to big, also keep this in mind people said for awhile Bea was a potential teammate of Glorfindel however, she didn't flip cylon. I believe Glorfindel wasn't a mafia cylon as in he wasn't on the team that has the kill.

Epi's reaction to my thoughts is exactly what baddie Epi would do.

My reaction is exactly what I would do if I were bad?

What would you have expected from me if I were good?

Less I'm not sure how to phrase it but like abrasive, you're also more logical as a civ and less prone to blow people off.

sig wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

sig wrote:Also Glorfindel saying that players were pushing lore to the wrong conclusion makes me believe he wasn't mafia even if the lore said he should be, furthers my belief he wasn't mafia.

Do you believe this game is a bastard / inversed format compared to the lore? Do you believe the original Cylon numbers were randomised in mafia / town, the same way the F5 might be randomised among most seemingly human roles?

I don't see why I should believe Athena is bad and Boomer is good, compared to lore, unless the game is inherently tainted from the beginning. The Host hinted that lore should be helpful. This is basically taking lore in account, but flipping everything on its head.

It could be either randomized, or a recruited scenario this would explain the final five scenario as well. Maybe Cavil has a certain number of players he can recruit or something like that. Also remember Golden said the lore would be helpful not necessary. I doubt that would boil down 100% to alignment. It could've also been something special for just the number 8 seeing how we have two. It could even be that Glorfindel was a traitor role who never turned traitor since in my quick read up it seems like Boomer wasn't always bad.

This theory really does boil down to my experience on Glorfindel and my current thoughts on Epi. Again why would the mafia leave such a good player alive for so long if he was basically civ cleared? Nobody really suspected him and he wasn't in danger of getting lynched so why let him live? If I was a mafia member I'd have shot him by now, unless he was either always mafia or could be flipped to be mafia. At this time I believe it is possibly that he was always mafia. A few quick points also to reinforce this
Epi didn't actively help with the Resurrection ship hunting
He refused to claim
He tried to steer the thread away from the claiming idea and said it didn't help, however this is proven to be false since multiply cylons refused to claim until they were almost lynched. Lorab, Glorfindel, and Wilgy.

No, I didn't help with ship hunting because it was a crap shoot and I can spot a crap shoot for a crap shoot. The squares would get checked, and as I had no information on locations, I stayed out. It disinterested me. I hate Battleship anyway. Stupid guessing game.

Do you have a problem with me refusing to claim, when I am a known Cylon?

I still don't think the claiming theory worked. They were only outed because they were almost lynched, which, they would have been outed anyway because they would have been lynched. The claiming idea was bad game theory. Nobody caught anybody because of it.

That is true, but those who didn't claim were looked at closer and five turned out to be cylons. (You, Wilgy, Nutella, Glorfindel, and Lorab) So I disagree that it was a bad idea or a bad game theory. Also yes you were an outed cylon so what? It was a scummy move not to claim so you could protect yourself another phase if we wanted to lynch you. Also assuming your mafia and there is a good chance of that you saving your claim could've resulted in us loosing in a lynch or loose scenario.

sig wrote:Also a quick look at his voting record.
Day 1
He along with three other cylons didn't vote.
Day 2
Again he didn't vote
Day 3
He was the second vote on Nero who flipped civ, if I recall correctly he voted Nero before Lorab claimed.
Day 4
Epi AGAIN voted on a counterwagon to Lorab this time attempting to lynch me. THIS is two days he voted on a wagon other than Lorab an outed most likely baddie Cylon.
Day 5
Votes for Glorfindel bringing the Glorfindel wagon closer to Wilgy who is also an outed cylon.
Day 6
He votes for Drum avoiding both mine and Glorfindel's wagon. This is something Epi did during Turf Wars multiply times in the case of two close wagons.
Day 7
He votes for Glofindel again, oddly enough he didn't vote for Glor day 6 he said he found a nuggets of information which convinced him Glor was mafia, yet he also voted for Glorfindel day 5 he just avoided the wagon on day 6.
Day 8
He voted for Rabbit

I don't think this voting pattern looks good I think it looks really scummy, he never voted for Lorab even after she claimed Cylon and in fact contributed to a counter wagon on me. This is the same wagon Wilgy voted on who is also an unknown cylon.
This is a very bad look for Epi having never voted for Lorab or Wilgy and in fact voted on counterwagons to both.

Did you know I can spin anybody's vote record to make them look bad? It isn't hard. A good vote is a bus or a distance, a bad vote is save, blah blah blah. It's so easy to do. You're spinning, mate.

So we should ignore how people vote since it could be spinned? I don't think so, It shouldn't be used as the only evidence, but it can be damning and in your case it does appear to be. True we now know Lorab wasn't mafia, but you avoided voting for Wilgy and I believe he is mafia of course we will see when you or he flips today.

sig wrote:Also almost everyone on Epi's day 1 wagon is dead, the most suspicious being Ika who died after insisting Epi be lynched again. Why kill Ika unless Epi was mafia? One could say it was done to frame Epi, but I doubt that since if Epi was civ and we lynched him, Ika would have quickly followed. I believe Ika was killed so there wouldn't be as many people trying to lynch Epi, Ika was one of the loudest voices for an Epi lynch.

I can think of another reason ika got killed Night 1 that had nothing to do with me. Maybe you can work it out. Loudest voice? Yes. Annoying voice? Perhaps.

So you killed him for being annoying? This is a cop out answer, I really doubt the mafia would kill someone for being annoying if it was distracting and derailing the thread. It would've only helped the mafia unless he was right. If Ika had convinced Silverwolf to look into it and she agreed people would have been more likely to follow her and lynch you. However, with Ika gone that wasn't pushed so she didn't pursue your lynch.

sig wrote:Daisy is the same sort of thing, she was killed for wanting to lynch Wilgy another outted cylon. Unless Ika was right about Epi there would've been no reason to kill him, he was distracting the thread and could have led us on a witch hunt of Epi resulting in two civs dead.

You know why daisy was killed, eh?

This counter is a minor and weak response to cast me in a bad light, she was killed for the same reason Ika was to help redirect the thread away from an outted evil cylon Wilgy.

sig wrote:The pattern here is clear the mafia is killing the civs who want to lynch them it's that simply. First it was Ika who wanted to lynch Epi then it was Daisy who wanted to lynch Wilgy. Both of whom are cylons who attempted to save Lorab.

Does this mean you think Lorab, DrWilgy, and I all have BTSC?

I did believe you either had BTSC or knew you were each other teammates, perhaps you have a method of knowing who the independent cylons are and wanted to recruit Lorab, if not I was wrong there. I do however, believe both you and Wilgy have BTSC together or are both mafia members.

sig wrote:MM (who voted for Epi day 1 as well) said a few things about Epi which could've contributed to his death.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Polo wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Polo wrote:

indiglo wrote:I don't think we can permanently kill ANY Cylon until the Rezz Ships are destroyed.

So we should avoid lynches or else we could end up lynching a human.

We can still Cylon-hunt and find some in the process.

We can, but we need to be very damn sure of who we choose to lynch.

I hope Gaius Baltar does a good job.

I'm not going to treat it any differently to be honest. It's a bummer that the Cylons won't currently die, but despite what Epignosis had to say about the rezz ship, I think it is crucial that we do destroy it.

As for him, I think we need to be careful about what he has to say. Currently, I think he is a player that we need dead, and that he is taking this opportunity of undeath to either sway us the other direction on him, or distract us from hunting other Cylons.

This is day 1 but, notice MM wants Epi lynched he is just willing to wait on it.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Well since Lorab probably isn't human, she needs to go.

So does Epignosis.

You are astounding.

The context of MM's post was that Cain had just issued Martial Law, and all Cylons needed to die. Scroll up a half a dozen posts to see the host post. Notice the face that MM produced. He didn't want to lynch me. He was sad that my death was necessary for his win.

You are spinning without context, sig.

I didn't put much force behind it for that reason, but if I'm going to put all my thoughts out then I'll include mine on MMs.

sig wrote: Day 4
Talks about lynching Epi.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:The only reason I want to lynch Epignosis is because he is a Cylon. But there are a total of 13 Cylons in this game.

Also, considering our dynamic win conditions, I'm willing to hold off on lynching him to see if the status quo changes again. Additionally, based on the setup, there may come a point in the game where the Cylons outnumber the Humans, and the last thing I want is for a massive Cylon Revolt that would kill off all of the Humans one-by-one. Creating a situation where it is a black-and-white Human-vs-Cylon scenario would be the most detrimental thing to happen just because of the numbers.

One more thing. We don't even know if Epignosis would die in a lynch anyway. He could just be rezzed again. :P

Another thing from day 4. True after this he doesn't mention Epi that much. So this could be an unrelated kill, however the fact that almost everyone who spoke out agaisnt Epi was killed and almost everyone who voted for Epi have been killed is telling.

Do you know how I said I can spin votes any way I want?

Night kill selections are no different.

"Everyone who voted Epi!"

That's two people. Two.

Three actually MetalMarsh, Ika, and Indiglo.

sig wrote:
He also didn't help to lynch nutella another outed most likely mafia cylon.

Neither did you. You voted me. I fell asleep in my chair and didn't vote.

sig wrote:This isn't an awesome case,

No, it isn't.

sig wrote: it isn't 100 percent right

Imagine that.
Still good enough to catch a baddie though.

sig wrote: or anything like that, but I think once you add up all the little oddities done by Epi this game and actually start to question his actions regardless of Glorfindel you'll see he isn't very civvie,

sig wrote: hasn't helped to lynch any cylon,

Yeah, I didn't do anything to Glorfindel- you got me on that.

But, you voted for him twice a known civ not looking good.

sig wrote: defended outted cylons,

I'm a Cylon. Is it a stretch I might defend one? Did I ever defend one? I'm not sure. I can't remember. It's all like...tears...in the rain.

Sorry, wrong thing.

Why would you defend a random cylon even if it seems they're bad? Since your all cylons that makes no sense. ALSO if that was the case why did you vote for and never really defended Glorfindel?

sig wrote: killed those who voted/tried to lynch him,

sig wrote:didn't help with Resurrection ship hunting,

Goddamn right I didn't.

sig wrote: and haven't voted for ANY cylons besides Glorfindel who believed Epi was mafia.

Glorfindel believed I was good until I put his ass on the fire.

sig wrote: SO that is three cylons two of whom we are almost certain are bad who he didn't help to lynch and worked agaisnt lynching and one unconfirmed, but most likely bad. Leaving on Glorfindel who he helped to lynch who if I'm right which I think I am isn't a member of Cavil's killing gang.

Why are "we" almost certain two are bad? Who are those? Name names. Name numbers. Name roles. Stop using pronouns without antecedents.

sig, if I have to command your lynch, I will. Get your shit together, or I will retaliate, and I don't care what your role is.

Quit wasting my time.

Epi says this is a waste of time, but I disagree I'm 80% sure he is mafia, if he isn't mafia then I doubt believe he is civ aligned. Either way I think we need to lynch Epi today, especially in light of Glorfindel being civ.

So Say We All!

Post 1

Polo you shouldn't have voted so soon.

THOUGH THIS IS PERFECT! We need to lynch Epi today, if he flips civ then we know Glorfindel was mafia and I don't doubt I'll be lynched. When he flips mafia we can assume Lorab and Wilgy are both his teammates. This needs to be done review my post about Epi Look at the fact he NEVER voted for an outted cylon EXCEPT for Glorfindel. Look at the fact he's still alive and the fact everyone who said anything about him is dead.


Also welcome back players!

@Daisy do you still think Wilgy should be lynched? Why do you think you were killed. Would you be willing to vote for Epi with me today and tomorrow we can lynch Wilgy.
@Nero what do you think about the fact that Epi voted for you over Lorab?

If people don't want to vote for Epi I suggest a Wilgy lynch seeing how he is the other outed living cylon. We have a golden oppurtunity here with alignments being revealed and we will know one hundred percent who is good and who is bad. I suspected Wilgy and Epi are both bad and once one flips the other should also be lynched.

One other unrelated point about me, if I'm a bad cylon do you believe Lorab was a good cylon? If you believe Lorab was bad what do you think of the fact I was her counterwagon?

This is addressed to those who think I could be bad, I'd also like an answer from OA regarding how I could be a cylon.

I'm not desperate about anything, I looked everything over and I don't see how Glorfindel could be mafia, his game play was super civvie for him and his EOD actions reminded me of Arkham not Star Wars at all. The difference is to big, also keep this in mind people said for awhile Bea was a potential teammate of Glorfindel however, she didn't flip cylon. I believe Glorfindel wasn't a mafia cylon as in he wasn't on the team that has the kill.

Epi's reaction to my thoughts is exactly what baddie Epi would do.

Ricochet wrote:

sig wrote:Also Glorfindel saying that players were pushing lore to the wrong conclusion makes me believe he wasn't mafia even if the lore said he should be, furthers my belief he wasn't mafia.

Do you believe this game is a bastard / inversed format compared to the lore? Do you believe the original Cylon numbers were randomised in mafia / town, the same way the F5 might be randomised among most seemingly human roles?

I don't see why I should believe Athena is bad and Boomer is good, compared to lore, unless the game is inherently tainted from the beginning. The Host hinted that lore should be helpful. This is basically taking lore in account, but flipping everything on its head.

It could be either randomized, or a recruited scenario this would explain the final five scenario as well. Maybe Cavil has a certain number of players he can recruit or something like that. Also remember Golden said the lore would be helpful not necessary. I doubt that would boil down 100% to alignment. It could've also been something special for just the number 8 seeing how we have two. It could even be that Glorfindel was a traitor role who never turned traitor since in my quick read up it seems like Boomer wasn't always bad.

This theory really does boil down to my experience on Glorfindel and my current thoughts on Epi. Again why would the mafia leave such a good player alive for so long if he was basically civ cleared? Nobody really suspected him and he wasn't in danger of getting lynched so why let him live? If I was a mafia member I'd have shot him by now, unless he was either always mafia or could be flipped to be mafia. At this time I believe it is possibly that he was always mafia. A few quick points also to reinforce this
Epi didn't actively help with the Resurrection ship hunting
He refused to claim
He tried to steer the thread away from the claiming idea and said it didn't help, however this is proven to be false since multiply cylons refused to claim until they were almost lynched. Lorab, Glorfindel, and Wilgy.

Also a quick look at his voting record.
Day 1
He along with three other cylons didn't vote.
Day 2
Again he didn't vote
Day 3
He was the second vote on Nero who flipped civ, if I recall correctly he voted Nero before Lorab claimed.
Day 4
Epi AGAIN voted on a counterwagon to Lorab this time attempting to lynch me. THIS is two days he voted on a wagon other than Lorab an outed most likely baddie Cylon.
Day 5
Votes for Glorfindel bringing the Glorfindel wagon closer to Wilgy who is also an outed cylon.
Day 6
He votes for Drum avoiding both mine and Glorfindel's wagon. This is something Epi did during Turf Wars multiply times in the case of two close wagons.
Day 7
He votes for Glofindel again, oddly enough he didn't vote for Glor day 6 he said he found a nuggets of information which convinced him Glor was mafia, yet he also voted for Glorfindel day 5 he just avoided the wagon on day 6.
Day 8
He voted for Rabbit

I don't think this voting pattern looks good I think it looks really scummy, he never voted for Lorab even after she claimed Cylon and in fact contributed to a counter wagon on me. This is the same wagon Wilgy voted on who is also an unknown cylon.
This is a very bad look for Epi having never voted for Lorab or Wilgy and in fact voted on counterwagons to both.

Also almost everyone on Epi's day 1 wagon is dead, the most suspicious being Ika who died after insisting Epi be lynched again. Why kill Ika unless Epi was mafia? One could say it was done to frame Epi, but I doubt that since if Epi was civ and we lynched him, Ika would have quickly followed. I believe Ika was killed so there wouldn't be as many people trying to lynch Epi, Ika was one of the loudest voices for an Epi lynch.
Daisy is the same sort of thing, she was killed for wanting to lynch Wilgy another outted cylon. Unless Ika was right about Epi there would've been no reason to kill him, he was distracting the thread and could have led us on a witch hunt of Epi resulting in two civs dead.

The pattern here is clear the mafia is killing the civs who want to lynch them it's that simply. First it was Ika who wanted to lynch Epi then it was Daisy who wanted to lynch Wilgy. Both of whom are cylons who attempted to save Lorab.

MM (who voted for Epi day 1 as well) said a few things about Epi which could've contributed to his death.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Polo wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Polo wrote:

indiglo wrote:I don't think we can permanently kill ANY Cylon until the Rezz Ships are destroyed.

So we should avoid lynches or else we could end up lynching a human.

We can still Cylon-hunt and find some in the process.

We can, but we need to be very damn sure of who we choose to lynch.

I hope Gaius Baltar does a good job.

I'm not going to treat it any differently to be honest. It's a bummer that the Cylons won't currently die, but despite what Epignosis had to say about the rezz ship, I think it is crucial that we do destroy it.

As for him, I think we need to be careful about what he has to say. Currently, I think he is a player that we need dead, and that he is taking this opportunity of undeath to either sway us the other direction on him, or distract us from hunting other Cylons.

This is day 1 but, notice MM wants Epi lynched he is just willing to wait on it.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Well since Lorab probably isn't human, she needs to go.

So does Epignosis.

Day 4
Talks about lynching Epi.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:The only reason I want to lynch Epignosis is because he is a Cylon. But there are a total of 13 Cylons in this game.

Also, considering our dynamic win conditions, I'm willing to hold off on lynching him to see if the status quo changes again. Additionally, based on the setup, there may come a point in the game where the Cylons outnumber the Humans, and the last thing I want is for a massive Cylon Revolt that would kill off all of the Humans one-by-one. Creating a situation where it is a black-and-white Human-vs-Cylon scenario would be the most detrimental thing to happen just because of the numbers.

One more thing. We don't even know if Epignosis would die in a lynch anyway. He could just be rezzed again. :P

Another thing from day 4. True after this he doesn't mention Epi that much. So this could be an unrelated kill, however the fact that almost everyone who spoke out agaisnt Epi was killed and almost everyone who voted for Epi have been killed is telling.

He also didn't help to lynch nutella another outed most likely mafia cylon.

This isn't an awesome case, it isn't 100 percent right or anything like that, but I think once you add up all the little oddities done by Epi this game and actually start to question his actions regardless of Glorfindel you'll see he isn't very civvie, hasn't helped to lynch any cylon, defended outted cylons, killed those who voted/tried to lynch him, didn't help with Resurrection ship hunting, and haven't voted for ANY cylons besides Glorfindel who believed Epi was mafia. SO that is three cylons two of whom we are almost certain are bad who he didn't help to lynch and worked agaisnt lynching and one unconfirmed, but most likely bad. Leaving on Glorfindel who he helped to lynch who if I'm right which I think I am isn't a member of Cavil's killing gang.

linki: OA you fail to recognize my main point that I don't believe Glorfindel was mafia, however you already have shown you don't pay attention to certain details as you STILL say I'm a confirmed cylon and have still failed to address how I'm a confirmed cylon.

Also Glorfindel saying that players were pushing lore to the wrong conclusion makes me believe he wasn't mafia even if the lore said he should be, furthers my belief he wasn't mafia.

DrumBeats wrote:

sig wrote:If we delve into that level of paranoia I have two theories.

1. if they were to kill me it would make people more likely to take what I said seriously namely me saying we should lynch Wilgy.
2. I speculated about this early in that I think the mafia attempted to kill me early in the game, but for some reason there kill failed.

I think my first theory is much more likely and think tomorrow we should be lynching Wilgy.

That doesn't answer my question. I was asking as to why you think the mafia killed Dex to frame you, and how exactly mafia killing Dex frames you.

Scotty not Dex.
Dex has nothing to do with me.

Matt wrote:Random thoughts -

I'd like to lynch either Obscure or Rico. They have both been super shady, and I'm not entirely sure why people have civ reads of them. I'm a little more hesitant on OA since my troubles this past day phase, but still.

I'd like people to either entertain sig's idea on a possible reverse of Glorfy/Epi or I'd like us to lynch sig. Either he's pushing a "theory" that he knows to be true, or he's effing bad. I don't see it another way.

What do people think of sig's idea that Glorfy was good and Epi is bad? Why hasn't the Mafia(s?) terminated Epi?

I'm not 100% sure it is true, however I can't get over a few things.
1. I know Glorfindels game play he wasn't acting scummy at all and there is no way he could've changed his play style that drastically as a mafia member.
2. I had early suspicion of Epi which persisted for awhile, he seemed to be playing like he was in Turf Wars.
3. Why if Epi is a lock cleared green checked civ is he still alive? This makes no sense for the mafia team to do.
4. Again with Turf War he seems to be playing the same way he was then, and as of right now I think Glorfindel might have been right about him.

I could be wrong about Epi, but after reading over Glorfindel's ISO I still don't think he was anti civ. Here is an idea, we know Glorfindel was a number 8 we know Epi is a number 8, what if only one number 8 can be bad? Or they reversed upon flipping. This would explain Glorfindel thinking Epi was bad. Like I said Glorfindel wasn't in my opinion playing his baddie game, I don't think he'd have been able to fool me this thoroughly if he was mafia.

If we delve into that level of paranoia I have two theories.

1. if they were to kill me it would make people more likely to take what I said seriously namely me saying we should lynch Wilgy.
2. I speculated about this early in that I think the mafia attempted to kill me early in the game, but for some reason there kill failed.

I think my first theory is much more likely and think tomorrow we should be lynching Wilgy.

insertnamehere wrote:I think and hope I've completed my 10 post quota and successfully avoided a chewing out from the Admiral. This post is admittedly to make sure

Uh oh I forgot about that. Let me do that now......kind off


So top three mafia reads?

Wilgy, I think the case agaisnt him before he flipped was good, he claimed cylon and nobody seems to care, and I doubt he is good. Assuming Epi is good we at least know who he is. With Wilgy we have no clue which is a big difference between the two.

OA, her insistence that I'm an outted cylon is strange and makes has no logic? I was never in first not even when I claimed cylon so there is no reason to believe what so ever I'm a cylon. I've told her this a few times and she has yet to provide a reason for why I'm a cylon. She has also has some strange behaviors which I believe have been addressed by other players in an ISO.

Drum I can't remember off the top of my head why I think he's mafia, but I remember harping on him being mafia for awhile. So once I have more time I'll look over that again.

I'm not sure where to place Polo I thought he was mafia for his behavior, but now I need to look over his posts again and think about it. What I find strange is how quickly he went from reading me as mafia who had to be lynched to being a civ, I found this odd. Not that I'm complaining or anything. :P
I didn't like that he voted so early in the phase either.

Also I hate to open this can of worms, but what if Glorfindel wasn't mafia? How would that change the game. I do believe there is a world where Glorfindel is a civ and that there is a chance this is the scenario we're in. This brings me to another point why if Epi is a civ would he still be alive, I'm starting to get Turf War feels from Epi and I don't like that.

Having said that I'm not sure if Bea is mafia, I did think Zebra was mafia I'm still unsure about Epi. This is actually a rather hard decscion for me, I'm okay with either wagon, but I doubt both are mafia. I believe I'll be voting for Bea, I haven't seen anything from Rabbit that is mafiaish and I'm not even sure now if Zebra was mafia or if I just was frustrated with her playstyle. I think the case on Bea has some good points, and oddly enough I trust the people on Bea's wagon more so then those on Rabbits.

Bea

Sorry for the rambling I'll provide more content tomorrow afternoon.

linki: and I missed the vote Sorry about that it took me longer to write my post then anticipated.

@OA I voted Glorfindel two phases ago out of self preservation, I didn't need to do this last phase so I didn't.

Oh and before I go one of my theories is that Golden knows I'm to pretty to die and won't let me get lynched Or NK's OR modkilled.

S~V~S wrote:All I want is "yes" or "no"

I might have some idea but I'm not 100% certain.

@SVS if I knew why do you think I could answer? That would be kind off info dumpy. So I find it odd you keep asking.
Also yes I addressed why scotty was killed to frame me and why I haven't been NK'd before or at least my view of it.

Yes since he was killed to frame me.


My change on Epi wasn't a flipflop he addressed my concerns and I was fine after that. Though there is still a world he is mafia. :P

I didn't change all my reads and how does the no lynch make me mafia in anyway?

So Say we All

RIP dex

@SVS why?

If Epi was recruited I doubt he'd have pursued Glorfindel unless Glorfindel was actually good, which is highly unlikely.

Perhaps the final five can be recruited by Cavil which would balance out one mafia team with only four people on it?

So Say we All


Well damn that was shocking guess I really can't read you Matty. :P

Also thanks for the well wishes.

BOOO Pittsburgh. :P

So quick read up of the last few pages if anyone had questions for me please quote/ask again since I probably missed them. Glor's last through pages were odd. However, his early game was very much civ Glorfindel so I'm still leaning civ on Glorfindel
I won't be voting for Glor instead I'm voting for Wilgy the other outted cylon.

Vote Dr.Wilgy

Sorry for the lower level of activity I'll try to pick it up next phase, but no promises.

Oh also I'm still suspicious of Rabbit, Drum and Polo.