The Syndicate

Well yes, he wouldn't be anywhere near Timmer's location if that's true.

Do you think Matt was being truthful when he said he was on the south side of the map atm?

I have Typhoony down as civ or indy due to him being NKd by the Cabal and his interactions with TH who i think is Circle.

Yeah that makes sense

Hmm.

LoRab wrote:I'd think he'd only need 2. At any rate, the question becomes, what happens if he stays put? What can we do about that? And given Golden's message, is there a greater risk in that? I think it's in our best interest for

I just looked it up. He'd need three. I don't think i'm reading that wrong

Golden wrote:I'm pretty sure timmer is a baddie, and he must be on a team of at least three. So circle. This is my implication from him being missing from the poll two days in a row. Teammates - TH, Matt, Typhoony (dead) is my best guess. The Matt/Dom fight has me also thinking Dom is a chance, but I don't really think they'd waste a kill on him so I'm not thinking that is likely.

Timmer's 3 teammates would need to be very close to Timmer for that to work. Matt says he's way down south, though i'm not sure i believe his crap

Golden wrote:I think the Cabal is also probably three people strong right now (technically two because I think the golem is protecting that team) and I also think perhaps Floyd was not on that team after all (trickster ability). What do you think of that, tranq? Do you think it possible that the trickster made floyd appear to be on the cabal team because you were convinced he was? Another option for me is Luke was the one who wasn't really bad. But, I haven't heard of people being poisoned since he died, so I think he probably really was that role, and I think the trickster doesn't just make their affiliation change, but they look like an entirely different role.

I guess it's possible if the Feral Pixie or Karma Chameleon were involved. Or an item/role that mimicks their abilities.

Golden wrote:Even to the extent that I'm beginning to think that the fight with Dom could be a sign of Dom and Matt being on the same team, trying to make Dom look bad so that Matt can survive longer term. Today has felt like a gambit to secure Matt's survival.

I agree with Tranq, in that I'm coming out of this side of the day feeling like all these guys could be bad... wouldn't it be funny if the four guys we voted to be on the poll are an entire team

I doubt Matt and Dom are faking their back & forth

Draconus wrote:I am tearing the rest of my hair out trying to figure you out, Matt.

So here it goes. Pants down, bearing all, gun to head, "WHAT TEAM?!"
I think Matt, TH, and Timmer are Decay. Possibly Lorab, too, if she's bad. (and that's a fat fucking IF)
I think SVS could be the last Cabal, and I think she recruited Dom.

My thoughts atm are similar to yours. Not the same, but similar.

LoRab wrote:Timmer has got to be a baddie. I think he's circle and I agree he has to have at least 2 teammates. I think he was in the right place at the right time to be removed twice and I think his teammates are making sure he stays that way.

If Timmer is at the right place at the right time, he likely has 3 teammates left.

I think all three of you could be bad tbh.

I'm still thinking TH > Matt > Dom atm but i haven't voted yet. I'm willing to consider all options.

Do any of you think Timmer isn't a baddie?
Do you think he's Cabal or Circle?
Assuming he's Circle, who do you think his teammates are? He has to have atleast 2 or 3.
How do you think he managed to disappear from the poll two times in a row?
Thoughts on the Cabal?
Thoughts on the Living Statue?
Thoughts on SVS?
Thoughts on LoRab?

Golden wrote:I know of a space that gets you off the poll to, but it requires some people be asked... which actually meshes with timmer starting on the poll then vanishing. Has anyone been asked if they agree to timmer being off the poll? I know I haven't.

I've been to that square early in the game. The number of people needed to make that work is actually worrying me quite a bit.

I'm thinking TH > Matt > Dom atm. You?

@ LoRab & Matt: Can you look at that list of items and tell me if there are Trickster-type items on there? Items that look like they can take you off the poll?

Voted Dom + the three musketeers.

Ofcourse not :P

I expect Bass to either vote Matt or to miss the vote.
I expect Timmer to vote Bass.
I expect TH to vote Bass.

I think SVS should keep her vote where it is.
I'm voting Matt for now to see what happens.

I agree with that idea.

And why Matt voted Bass.

I'd say TH has their most important role

At this point i wouldn't mind a Matt lynch.

Timmer being off the poll gives him no motive to vote for TH. I don't know how they did it, but it's clever, lol. I'd like to see TH lynched before he finds a cure.
If Bass is bad, i think he's more likely to be Cabal.

Eh.

S~V~S wrote:Now see, I think the person that was being saved very possibly was TH. I looked at the roles, and the lynch save I saw was the Lich. A "Lich" just sounds like a baddie based on fantasy lore.

The Mystic Surveyor can also stop a lynch. Also i'm pretty sure there are items in the game that can stop the lynch / protect yourself from death.

You could tell me why that would be a stupid thing for you to say if you were Wilgy's teammate.

Turnip Head wrote:

Tranq wrote:The poison thing. Could you help me read it correctly as this is getting confusing. I went through your posts and couldn't find where you said Wilgy should've voted you to save himself.

I was talking directly to Golden when I said this, in response to something Golden said about Wilgy voting for him. You picked up on the rest of my hints so I'm not sure why this one is eluding you.

You're talking about this post:

Turnip Head wrote:

Golden wrote:So you think there would be a better candidate for him to choose than the person who they poisoned on night one?

Or, is it a different point you are making?

No, I think there would be no better candidate than that. That is absolutely the point that I'm making.

You asked me this:

Turnip Head wrote:Tranq Let me ask you this. If I was a baddie with Wilgy and poisoned, why would I even say anything about how he should have voted for me to save himself? What is the benefit for me putting that in the thread?

What's the point in asking me these questions? The post you're talking about was made Night 9, after DrWilgy's lynch. How is this a defense for not being Wilgy's teammate?

@ Matt: I was kidding.
@ TH: Yes.

Voted no to the posting contest. I cba going through one of those again.

LoRab wrote:

S~V~S wrote:This whole thing reminds me of MPs "parchment" in SOT. I am not liking it, and the fact that it involves the 3 people I listed in my post answer to Dom about whom I suspected is kinda

I agree it is suspish that Matt did nothing about the info sooner or suspect timer earlier. I can confirm that the list exists. I think it was tranquil who originally asked the question about the item's name? I assume he has read the list as well.

Actually no. I asked because i didn't buy the story about an alignment check changing into something completely different, and i wanted to hear more about it. It's interesting to hear that list also includes the beacon of light as i think that's a Cursecrafter item.

timmer wrote:@Tranq, it was called a Figurine. The alignment of whoever s face I carved into it would be revealed to me. At this point I really don't care if you don't believe me, I've been railroaded over a single action which made perfect sense at the time. I'm kind of done with this.

I believe you!

Turnip Head wrote:

Tranq wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Hope everyone had a yummy Thanksgiving.

Tranq Let me ask you this. If I was a baddie with Wilgy and poisoned, why would I even say anything about how he should have voted for me to save himself? What is the benefit for me putting that in the thread?

Golden, why are you voting for me?

Eh? You never said such a thing
My thought is you hinted at being poisoned because you didn't want any more votes. You had 1 vote from Golden. I'd guess a 2nd vote on you would've gotten you lynched. The fact that DrWilgy didn't vote for you (it would've saved his life) is what makes me think you're on his Circle team. DrWilgy was going down no matter what. Even if he saved himself by voting for you, he would've still be lynched next as he was a Cabal suspect. So rather than letting 2 members be lynched in a row, he wasted his vote on Golden while buying you some time to find a cure. It's also possible he somehow knew Golden was poisoned aswell, but i think that's just a coincidence.

Another reason i'm ok with leaving my vote as it is atm is your thoughts on DrWilgy went from "doesn't remind me of his civ game" during the Floyd lynch, to "he's an enigma" when DrWilgy started getting votes the next day:

Day 8:

Turnip Head wrote:Wilgy doesn't remind me at all of how he played in Recruitment IV, the only other game I played with him (he was civ). He was jokey and OT in that game, but he still had solid contributions. He doesn't seem to be taking this game seriously. His post history is sparse on content, OT or otherwise.

Day 9:

Turnip Head wrote:I agree with you about splintsy and to a lesser extent Bass. What do you see in Wilgy? He's a bit of an enigma to me.

Wilgy did not remind me of his civ game in Revruitment IV. He was also playing extremely carelessly. I don't understand what point you're making about what I said here.

As far as the hinting at poison thing, you are not reading the situation correctly. You say I didn't say something that I did in fact say, so go back and read my posts within the context of the thread. If I was on a team with Wilgy I would not have said anything at all.

My point is you went from "doesn't remind me of his civ game" Day 8 (which sounds like you don't think he's civ) to "he's an enigma" Day 9 (which sounds like you have no read on him). Sounds like your suspicion on him had decreased when he got closer to actually getting lynched.

The poison thing. Could you help me read it correctly as this is getting confusing. I went through your posts and couldn't find where you said Wilgy should've voted you to save himself.

Are you saying if you were on a team with Wilgy, you would've kept quiet and allowed yourself to be lynched instead?

Tbh i don't know what to make of you knowing you'd survive a lynch after all of this

I'd still like to find out the name of Timmer's alignment check item.

Turnip Head wrote:Hope everyone had a yummy Thanksgiving.

Tranq Let me ask you this. If I was a baddie with Wilgy and poisoned, why would I even say anything about how he should have voted for me to save himself? What is the benefit for me putting that in the thread?

Golden, why are you voting for me?

Eh? You never said such a thing
My thought is you hinted at being poisoned because you didn't want any more votes. You had 1 vote from Golden. I'd guess a 2nd vote on you would've gotten you lynched. The fact that DrWilgy didn't vote for you (it would've saved his life) is what makes me think you're on his Circle team. DrWilgy was going down no matter what. Even if he saved himself by voting for you, he would've still be lynched next as he was a Cabal suspect. So rather than letting 2 members be lynched in a row, he wasted his vote on Golden while buying you some time to find a cure. It's also possible he somehow knew Golden was poisoned aswell, but i think that's just a coincidence.

Another reason i'm ok with leaving my vote as it is atm is your thoughts on DrWilgy went from "doesn't remind me of his civ game" during the Floyd lynch, to "he's an enigma" when DrWilgy started getting votes the next day:

Day 8:

Turnip Head wrote:Wilgy doesn't remind me at all of how he played in Recruitment IV, the only other game I played with him (he was civ). He was jokey and OT in that game, but he still had solid contributions. He doesn't seem to be taking this game seriously. His post history is sparse on content, OT or otherwise.

Day 9:

Turnip Head wrote:I agree with you about splintsy and to a lesser extent Bass. What do you see in Wilgy? He's a bit of an enigma to me.

Golden wrote:I'm up for a TH vote, tranq.

I'm putting a vote on TH now which i may or may not change to Timmer later. I wouldn't mind hearing other people's thoughts on TH first.

Golden wrote:@MM - the timing and lots of other stuff... I mean, I agree there are still good reasons to suspect timmer. In some ways, timmer being lynched could make a lot of things clear. But, when the one theory I had I now think is wrong (that timmer had items, and knew he was killig epi with an obisidian dagger) it is harder for me to judge the rest of my case. It was that part of the case which made me feel sure.

The part i'm having trouble with is how an item changed into a completely different item. Timmer said he got an alignment check which turned into an Obsidian Dagger. As fingersplints said, that doesn't sound like how the Cursecrafter's items work:

fingersplints wrote:No, I have encountered an item that had different, extra negative effects then the positive effect described, but it still was the same item. I'm pretty positive this was a cursecrafter item as it fits the description perfectly.

I believe there are 2 types of items on this map:
- items the Cursecrafter created. Minor positive effect, greater negative one. I'd say that beacon of light was one of them.
- items LC created. Role related items like the Mirror of Truth, or the Star Gem. Other items which you can pretty much guess what they do by looking at the name of them.

I'd say the Obsidian Dagger is one of LC's items, and Timmer is making that alignment check story up
Timmer, can you tell us the name of the item you used on Epignosis?

Bass has made 1 post in the game which made me think he's genuine. This one here:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I voted that way because more people I trusted voted that way and I wasn't keeping up as much as I should have been.

This is exactly how i felt as a civ during the Pet Sounds speed game.

If he's bad i think he's more likely to be Cabal than Circle.

I'm looking at a Timmer or Turnip Head vote atm.

timmer wrote:Lorab, I had just been in the same place as Sig and epig and then Sig died. The item was supposed to provide an alignment check so I used it on epig to see if he had likely killed Sig. Instead he died and the item changed to a dagger. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

If I'm bad I had no reason to reveal any of this in the first place.

The items i've encountered have been pretty straightforward.

"This is item xxx. Do you want to pick it up?
Yes.
Congrats, you now have xxx. This is what it does."

I suppose it's possible you've grabbed an item created by the Cursecrafter.

Cursecrafter - Can create items to leave on a location that seem to have a minor positive effect, but may hide a greater negative one.

I think an item created by the Cursecrafter has negative side effects. I don't think they would change into a different item. Also i don't think the Cursecrafter would create items that could end up killing him
Has anyone else encountered an item that ended up changing into a different item?

To not get lynched?

@ Turnip Head: What do you think of Timmer? I went through your posts, you have exactly 0 interactions with Timmer, and only one of your posts mentions him. This one here, where you ask MM why he wants to lynch Timmer:

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Why aren't we lynching timmer anymore?

timmer

Why do you want to lynch timmer?

MM later explained his suspicion of Timmer here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 05#p200205
You didn't comment on any of that. What are your thoughts on the Obsidian Dagger situation? Thoughts on Timmer in general?

Turnip Head wrote:

Tranq wrote:Or you and DrWilgy are on the Circle together and decided it would be better to get DrWilgy lynched, rather than you getting poison-lynched first followed by DrWilgy's lynch. DrWilgy saving himself by voting you wouldn't have prevented his lynch the following day as he mostly was a Cabal suspect anyway.

/theory

That is certainly a theory.

I doubt I would have even said anything if that were the case.

I don't think you planned to say anything, until it got pointed out that votes couldn't be changed. That's when the first hint dropped.

Or you and DrWilgy are on the Circle together and decided it would be better to get DrWilgy lynched, rather than you getting poison-lynched first followed by DrWilgy's lynch. DrWilgy saving himself by voting you wouldn't have prevented his lynch the following day as he mostly was a Cabal suspect anyway.

/theory

So why didn't DrWilgy vote for you?

Yesterday you hinted at having been poisoned (Night 1 if Golden is correct). Do you think a mafia team with most of their members still alive would've caught those hints?

That's a good question. One i've been asking myself these past 10 minutes

Could go either way. But i doubt he's getting my vote today.

Matt, i'm with TH on this. I don't think he's a Cabal member.

@ TH: How many players do you think the Circle of Decay has atm?

Looks like Tranq is off the poll today

ECCEECCCEECCCECCECECECE

Matt F, do you have any thoughts on MM voting Timmer or on Timmer in general?

Matt F wrote:So I'm going to want to lynch MM again tomorrow probably. Maybe another look at Lorab. And Dom, def Dom.

What does everyone think of Dom?

I had no read on Dom so i went through his posts. He suspects Bass and fingersplints, and is on the fence about most other players.

He went hard against juliets and to a lesser extent Floyd. I don't think he's Cabal.
No mention of Typhoony all game. Mentioned Wilgy a couple of times. Nothing hard that suggests he isn't Circle.

Dom and LoRab have 2 small interactions in the game, both of them agreeing with each other on Mac. Beyond that they don't mention or comment on each other's thoughts. Why not? What's going on with the two of you?
Dom, what are your thoughts on LoRab?
LoRab, what are your thoughts on Dom?

E.

I'm not sure what to think of Blinkman. It would be an odd choice for the Trickster to appear as.

Voted Wilgy.

Dom, who is your bigger suspect? Bass or fingersplints?

Golden wrote:

Tranq wrote:

Golden wrote:

Tranq wrote:I think DrWilgy will flip Circle

Why, Tranq? Just speculation, or do you feel like there are real indications that lean this way.

I think you have missed certain hints these past couple of hours which would make DrWilgy a huge fool if he's Cabal.

He seems to be hinting at civ, I'm not sure how you get circle not cabal from that? Oh well, I guess we will see when he flips.

That's not who i was talking about

I haven't voted yet. I want to see who Bass votes for first.

Golden wrote:

Tranq wrote:I think DrWilgy will flip Circle

Why, Tranq? Just speculation, or do you feel like there are real indications that lean this way.

I think you have missed certain hints these past couple of hours which would make DrWilgy a huge fool if he's Cabal.

I think DrWilgy will flip Circle

lolwat

There are more clues that point to him being Cabal, but i think he could also be Circle of Decay. This is far from his active civvie game as seen in RMIV (and in the Pet Sounds speed game which just ended).

See my post here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 84#p199884