The Syndicate

DrumBeats wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Rabbit and Drum with the meme votes.

linki - Sig, I cast my vote like, 2 years ago on the person I think is scum, how could I vote off wagon when there were no wagons at the time? If it feels better I'm still A-OK with your lynch. It does bother me abit that Drum saved Glorf.

Linki - Holy mother of linki.

linki linki linki

Where is anyone getting that I saved Glorf? That was Rabbit's vote. I split the tie between Rabbit and Sig.

DrumBeats wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:Catching up, since it confused some people last time when I responded to current and old simultaneously, I'm just going to make sure I go chronologically for clarity's sake.

Polo wrote:@Drumbeats so, if my guess was right, then I'm mafia to you? That is utterly ridiculous and I'd expect a solid accusation from anyone who doubts my civness.

It's not ridiculous. Mafia likely knows who their teammates are. Civs do not have this type of information. Should Wilgy be town, a mafia member would know the following after the failed lynch:
1) Wilgy is not a mafia cylon
2) Wilgy is a cylon

That would leave a Mafia cylon to know that Wilgy is either a town cylon such as Cap Six or the Leo dude Dex mentioned, or one of the final five. Based on the nature of Wilgy's claim, it was pretty clear that he knew he was a cylon, so that would mean that either the final five twist has started behind the scenes or that he is a town cylon. I cannot see a way to believe that strongly that he is civ without having this mafia inside knowledge. If anybody else can come up with another way, I would love to hear it.

All of the above depends entirely on how Wilgy flips though. If Wilgy flips mafia later, then all of this has no meaning.

However, the bolded and underlined here, I find suspcious. From my experience, scum players are much more likely to get frustrated when they are suspected for reasoning that they find flawed.

Perhaps what I'm saying just make sense? Drumbeats did you judge me based on my postings vs me just being a cylon yet? if so point me to it please.

The primary reason for my judgement is that you are a cylon. Based on what I've heard from the people who know the lore, of our 5 unknown cylons, only two seem like possibilities for civilian roles. This would put you, ignoring behavior, at a 60% likelihood of being mafia.

Then the secondary reasoning is your behavior. My biggest suspicion about it is that you have only started contributing to the thread after you came under fire. I found most of your posts before the lynch happened to be very unhelpful, and reminded me of what I'm seeing from Vompatti, but now that you have burned your immunity and are out in the open you suddenly have begun to actually make comprehensive posts.

Can you explain why that is?

DrumBeats wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Quiet day today.

I like the spread of votes. Generally it means we are on the right track.

I wonder when BR will show up. I wonder if OA or Sokoth will discuss with me. I'm havin an itch that JJJ is bad.

Marmot, why are you being so quiet?

Linki - I think he did both...

I'm interested in your case on JJJ. I haven't found anything to scumread him on, but I would love to hear what you've got and see if I missed anything.

DrumBeats wrote:Catching up, since it confused some people last time when I responded to current and old simultaneously, I'm just going to make sure I go chronologically for clarity's sake.

Polo wrote:@Drumbeats so, if my guess was right, then I'm mafia to you? That is utterly ridiculous and I'd expect a solid accusation from anyone who doubts my civness.

It's not ridiculous. Mafia likely knows who their teammates are. Civs do not have this type of information. Should Wilgy be town, a mafia member would know the following after the failed lynch:
1) Wilgy is not a mafia cylon
2) Wilgy is a cylon

That would leave a Mafia cylon to know that Wilgy is either a town cylon such as Cap Six or the Leo dude Dex mentioned, or one of the final five. Based on the nature of Wilgy's claim, it was pretty clear that he knew he was a cylon, so that would mean that either the final five twist has started behind the scenes or that he is a town cylon. I cannot see a way to believe that strongly that he is civ without having this mafia inside knowledge. If anybody else can come up with another way, I would love to hear it.

All of the above depends entirely on how Wilgy flips though. If Wilgy flips mafia later, then all of this has no meaning.

However, the bolded and underlined here, I find suspcious. From my experience, scum players are much more likely to get frustrated when they are suspected for reasoning that they find flawed.

Epignosis wrote:If I had another vote, it'd be on Glorfindel.

If I had a request, it would be that people would pay more attention to DrumBeats' posts.

Matt wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Vompatti wrote:So say we all.

D12

I thought we already sunk all the Cylon Battleships?

I immediately saw this post from Vomps and started laughing at his silliness.

And I'm wondering why SVS responded to it so seriously. Hrm.

SVS is actually one of my topsie civ reads based on "other stuff" but her game thread speak has given me the heebies.

Also, I have to take a break for about an hour pretty soon, then I'll only have an hour left or so after that before work, and I'm still about 8 or 9 pages behind.

I'm trying!

Right now, I'm leaning on a Wilgy vote because I'm not a fan that he didn't claim until the bitter end of the last day phase. Also, did he officially claim that day? Epi said something about "10:02 eastern", I'm still not entirely sure if Wilgy made his claim before or after the phase was over.

Epignosis wrote:I'd like other opinions on DrumBeats. I don't like his methodology or his conclusions.

ObscureAllure wrote:VOTE: Dr. Wigly.

Because he was inky cylon yesterday mediant he's uncivilized a Cylon today.

Polo wrote:Wilgy, what are your GTH reads of everyone?

Polo wrote:It's really interesting how all of the people I have been suspicious of have been reading the other people I've been suspicious of as good.

I believe that, if I'm lynched, people should make good use of what I just said, along with the publicity of my role, to successfully hunt down the mafia - you guys will know where to look for.

Before anyone quotes this posts and says "Hey, he only said lynched! He's sure he's not getting NK'ed, so he must be Cylon !1!1!!!", be aware that no roles are publicized upon NKs and in that case nobody would know me, which invalidates what I have just suggested.

ObscureAllure wrote:He's a cylon so if he claims our number two (should be Wigly) dies and if he doesn't claim then Glor dies. Either way we have a mafia.

Ricochet wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:So say we all.

Rico, thoughts on JJJ?

Zeebs you cool?

Lol too late mate
also I am cool with the
tryhard bro JimJay.

Ricochet wrote:Six names without salute
Obscure, Polo, Wilgy, Beats
GMan, Vompatti

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Your turn Wilgy: what baddie strategy do you assert I am employing if Glorfindel is my team mate when I "coach" him the way I did in the thread?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:Also, JJJ's coaching of Glorfindel, takes him straight off my civ list. He also got involved in the Wilgy situation to encourage Wilgy. He's also faded quite a bit since his ISO's and I am wondering if he's actually bad this game.

Oh well. I coach people. I'm a coach. Among the terms I've often used to describe myself as a Mafia player are "cheerleader" and "head coach" because it's just behavior that I enjoy. I'm going to continue doing it; I don't really give a crap if people think it's buddying or something and suspect me for it. I think it's beneficial both to everyone. There's also a significant benefit to encouraging what I encouraged even if I'm wrong about Glorfindel, so why don't you stop for a minute and think about that.

You're right that I've faded as a contributor. That fading began when two other games featuring JaggedJimmyJay in the player roster began. Thankfully one of those just ended so I might be in a little better shape moving forward. Two is still one more than my typical rules allow. I'll give y'all as much as I can without frying my brain, but I don't promise to get into ISO mania every day. Let's lynch someone that is clearly bad and has clear association so I can do some interactive checks.

Polo wrote:If I were mafia in any game, I'd be dumb as shit not to leave BTSC chat open 24/7, especially on the verge of being lynched.

SokothQultuq wrote:Actually if you go back and read the post where I did vote for him I gave my reason. I thought it was pretty sound.

Essentially either he didn't read anything I posted previously and the back and forth between me, Polo, Matt, and Long Con I believe it was regarding voting. he turned around and started the same exact thing I did. Why would you do the same thing after all that? It felt suspicious to me, so I rocked the vote in his name.

SokothQultuq wrote:I think I'm hearing a broken record again... Didn't I already try this angle with the whole "I don't understand, so I'm not going to claim bit." I find that odd that you would likewise go that route DrWigly, this feels like your either doing this on purpose or are not caught up. The responses given are a bit weird too in my opinion.

I may not chime in often but this seems very strange to me. Especially in light of what I did.

I'm afraid I'm going to cast my vote for DrWigly as well.

Epignosis wrote:

sig wrote:So I think Daisy was killed since she wanted to lynch Wilgy, I believe the mafia team is attempting to redirect the lynch onto another player (right now it is me) away from Wilgy and it was clear Daisy wasn't going to budge and wanted Wilgy gone.

This is silly.

Silverwolf wrote:

sig wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:So say we all!

Vote: Glorfindel

wtf? I thought you were voting for Wilgy no matter what.

I have my reasons.

Black Rock wrote:So say we all!

ObscureAllure wrote:How have Silver and I been working together? I defended her when people were using her character to attack her role. I said I didn't think her role was a bad one just because she got upset or emotional. I don't think I've said anything about silver before or since? Or maybe I agreed with her about LC but that's all I can really remember? How is that "working together"?

ObscureAllure wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

ObscureAllure wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:

ObscureAllure wrote:

Ricochet wrote:I'd interject that the concept of Wilgy claim Caprica Six would arise "for no reason" or "all of a sudden", because there are not many original Cylon numbers we could infer to be non-baddie aligned. Maybe Leoben for being linked with Starbuck after a while? That's about it, though. So, with LoRab flipping Anna, who else to take into consideration but a Cylon such as Caprica Six?

Or he could be a bad cylon lying? Let's do the math. How many bad cylons (not Capricia Six) are left compared to the one Capricia Six? The odds are much higher that he's not Six. And that's even if we assume Six isn't bad. We don't know that. Literally every cylon who gets caught being a cylon is going to claim being six. They can't all be six. It's impossible. He's NOT six.

I agree with most of this post. Mathematically speaking, it is doubtful that Wigly is a protown cylon. We likely only have one more, if even that, so how many people are instantly assuming he is that one is frightening. The difference between this and the Epig lynch, is Epig was confirmed to be a protown cylon afterwards, Wigly was not. Wigly could be Six, or even Cavil. We don't know, but we know there is a mathematic likelihood of Wigly flipping scum.

The Bold and Underlined part however, makes me wonder how Obscure is this certain Wigly is not Six. I could see OA flipping Six based on this honestly.

I wasn't claiming, was just aggravated because everyone is like "OMG - he might be a gooooooood cylon!" After three days of ranting how bad he is. If all it takes to stop from getting lynched is to tell everyone that are a good cylon I might... No, I still wouldn't. Lol. But seriously though. He can't be six, he's a bad guy, all of the evidence that people posted for three days says that, and I don't think six is bad. I'm not a cylon, so I'm not six.

That reminds me, what font color is Six listed in again in the opening post? I can't recall.

No clue - go look if you want to know?




Ok so let me just point out the obvious here. There is one "possibly Civ" cylon left (Capricia six) and we have two confirmed cylons alive (Sig and Wigly). You realize that in the LEAST, one of them has to be bad, right? And they both hinted that they are six. Does no one else see this? Seriously? I'm in shock that we are even talking about people outside of these two (well, and glor because Silver didn't try to really hide that one if we are to believe her.) we are still out to kill mafia right?!??

Silverwolf wrote:

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I think it is a valid reasoning, even if you do not. Even in games where you are using alternative playstyles, you still show up and tend to be somewhat of a thread leader rather than otherwise. It seems to me that you were wallflowering to me My reasoning is my reasoning, and I am sorry it displeases you, but it works for me.

And even having read every post you made up until you started taking votes just this weekend, I don't recall a single opinion you have held.

I have also said that I am going to take Dex' word for whatever he saw, but I am also not going to apologize for or backpedal from how I felt before the lynch. So can you please dial back the aggression a tad?

Aggression? I don't mean to be aggro (sorry if it seemed that way).

A Wilgy cheatsheet:
Strongest opinions, Sig, BR, and Sokoth placed a vote on me after I stated that I was a toaster. This makes little to no civ sense considering their vote would be negated. Why use your strongest power as a civ, your vote, in a position where it wouldn't count.

Strong opinion, Sig's reaction to me taking his side against Epi vs me voting for him on behalf of Scotty was not what I expect out of a civillian Sig.

Medium opinion, OA and Silver are not on the same team. I believe they have been working together now for 3 cycles rather strongly. I don't think Mafia would allow for both of them to still be alive if they were on the same team.

Weak opinion, those defending me are likely civilian. Mafia have nothing to gain out of defending me since i'll flip cylon anyways + at the rate we are going a lynch on cylon Wilgy will probably be easy.

Things I'm looking for: BR and Silver's feedback regarding the events of last night and the content I created. Also, any opinions regarding my thoughts on Sig.

Linki - Not that I would no sadly. If he's soul reading me as civilian I appreciate it, that and the above opinions are all I got.

I agree sig's reaction to your claim was bad. I'd be wiling to pressure sig. I'm not civ reading him by any means. Don't assume mafia wouldn't defend you right now. And don't assume civs that were going hard after you before wouldn't be doing so now as well.

I don't like how Black Rock and Sokoth came in here and placed a vote on you and peaced out with not much else to say after you already claimed. I would like for both of them to explain why they voted you after you claimed. It makes little sense and the better move would be to vote for someone else they suspected.

S~V~S wrote:Thanks, and yeah I knew what you have had opinions on since you started taking suspish, lol.

Based on what he said, I think there is primarily one topic to which his insight may have applied. So I will look for it when I get home. Had you known what he meant it might have made it easier to find since that might imply you intentionally said it for emphasis.

S~V~S wrote:I think it is a valid reasoning, even if you do not. Even in games where you are using alternative playstyles, you still show up and tend to be somewhat of a thread leader rather than otherwise. It seems to me that you were wallflowering to me My reasoning is my reasoning, and I am sorry it displeases you, but it works for me.

And even having read every post you made up until you started taking votes just this weekend, I don't recall a single opinion you have held.

I have also said that I am going to take Dex' word for whatever he saw, but I am also not going to apologize for or backpedal from how I felt before the lynch. So can you please dial back the aggression a tad?

SVS wrote: @Wilgy, I made one or two posts about it, but for me it was your entire game. You seemed disinterested and uninvolved UNTIL you were being lynched. While I can't expect civ Wilgy to be the civ Wilgy from Recruitment in every game, I can expect to see flashes of that guy. I saw no flashes. So my interpretation of you as sketchy is based more on what didn't happen than on what did happen, if that makes sense.

Silverwolf wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:*chomps on Silverwolf's leg*

I willsh shry shoo ansher all keshionsh ashk'd ohf me shoon.

You were here posting last night. You have 24 hours from the time you posted this to give me something to work with. You have promised to deliver content before and have not. I have zero tolerance for this kind of play in games. I vote it and lynch it.

Silverwolf wrote:I'd also still be willing to lynch Long Con. Black Rock's support of him holds some weight and he definitely is showing a lot of effort and not knowing about certain things that'd I'd expect him too seems genuine but I have a bad feeling about him I can't shake.

ISOing Glorfindel he has a few good posts and explains himself well. I don't like his voting pattern and behavior around lynches however.

Wilgy seems just too unreadable for me and I didn't like IAWY so I guess that's my biggest complaint about him.

bea has just faded fast, I know she's busy but even her last catch up was basically a bunch of nothing, just kind of floating around here and there.

Silverwolf wrote:

Matt wrote:Updated list of Non-Claimers
a2thezebra
DrWilgy
Epignosis
Glorfindel
OA
Ricotech
Sokoth
Vompatti

Off this list, I'm gonna vote for either DrWilgy or Glorfindel-I will re ISO Glorfindel. Wilgy, I'm not trying to force you into any certain style of play but answering my questions will help me read you better. Glorfindel asked about my suspicions and tried to address them. That's a point in his favor and a negative in yours. Again, I want to get the best read I can on you both because off the above list, one of you two are it, since sig claimed for real and likely isn't a good option now for today because he claimed today.

I'm not going to witch hunt off this list. I'm only gonna pick people on it I'm suspicious of. If the only nonclaimers seem town, then I'll leave them alone.

Ricochet wrote:I'd interject that the concept of Wilgy claim Caprica Six would arise "for no reason" or "all of a sudden", because there are not many original Cylon numbers we could infer to be non-baddie aligned. Maybe Leoben for being linked with Starbuck after a while? That's about it, though. So, with LoRab flipping Anna, who else to take into consideration but a Cylon such as Caprica Six?

Silverwolf wrote:

DrWilgy wrote: Hm... Silver I thought your stance was a solid "I don't know how to read Wilgy" for a majority of the game?

Let me look at you.

ISO me and see me talk about IAWY and you. My thoughts should be more than clear.

Silverwolf wrote:

Dex wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:I don't understand, considering Wilgy's behavior all game, that he's suddenly good just because he claimed cylon at the last possible minute and acted like a civ at the last possible minute to save himself.

Sorry, but I'm not that gullible. He's been acting bad all game as the person before him did. I'm not leaving him alive cuz he claimed and suddenly people are thinking he's good for no real reason.

That's some first rate BS right there.

But there IS a reason Silver. Do you trust me? Do you read me civ? It seems to me that your wolf-nose is very good at sniffing out alignment. What does it tell you about me?

I didn't like D'Faraday but you are a lot better and I'm leaning civ on you at the moment. I don't want to hear you think he's Six. I about lost it when polo pulled that card. I don't know the lore of this show as well as some others but I do know if he's bad, he can't be kept around on a whim. I'm willing to believe there are cylons who do not follow Cavil and I'm willing to believe they might not be all cylons, but I'm not going to just let someone I've been reading as bad all game go for no reason because everyone starts saying they now think he's good, or even more ridiculously, that he's Six for no reason.

Dex wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Because there are not living Cylons I would trust at this point. Epi has the only one I would really trust to be good. People keep talking about Caprica Six and Gaius but frankly I would not trust either of those roles farther than I could throw them. I would be very willing to bet they have their own win Cons and I wouldn't trust them to be in the best interest of the civs at all. I mean come on, Gaius' only concern in the course of the show was Gaius. And Caprica Six was the one who used him to get through the defenses of the colonies. Why in name of the Lords of Kobol would I ever trust these two roles? So you tell me Wilgy, what Cylon role do you see still living that I should trust? Unless the final five have been activated, I don't believe you. And I still feel it is too early for that. So no, I think you are bad.

This is just not true, Leoben and Caprica 6 were both part of D'Anna's anti-Cavil faction (Gaius is human). Frankly, this looks like mafia cylon looking for an easy civ cylon kill to me.

Polo wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I guess my mindset at this moment is... I could claim. That would mean there's an actual chance for a baddie lynch instead of me, but then I'd just get killed tomorrow.

My win condition is probably negated anyways, so all I can do is help civs as best as possible before I go.


What would help out the most at this point though... Idk. I could bite the bullet, that way everyone can stop worrying about reading me, and the game can progress. I could also claim and potentially get rid of Cavil (whatever those chances may be).

Linki - Hmm? What Daisy. I didn't understand that fully.

Linki @ Dex - then we will just have to go through this again tomorrow.

This part is really interesting.

sig wrote:I'm happy with my vote on you Wilgy, I didn't see that you claimed and frankly it makes no sense why mafia me or civ me would purposely do think that. I had already said I was behind and just got on and I was skimming I liked the case on you and voted with it. IF LC had flipped as a baddie cylon I could see your suspicion but he didn't.

Also does anyone want to talk about Zebra suspicions list including juliets who is dead and confirmed civ? I wouldn't mind seeing her lynched either.

Spacedaisy wrote:Because there are not living Cylons I would trust at this point. Epi has the only one I would really trust to be good. People keep talking about Caprica Six and Gaius but frankly I would not trust either of those roles farther than I could throw them. I would be very willing to bet they have their own win Cons and I wouldn't trust them to be in the best interest of the civs at all. I mean come on, Gaius' only concern in the course of the show was Gaius. And Caprica Six was the one who used him to get through the defenses of the colonies. Why in name of the Lords of Kobol would I ever trust these two roles? So you tell me Wilgy, what Cylon role do you see still living that I should trust? Unless the final five have been activated, I don't believe you. And I still feel it is too early for that. So no, I think you are bad.

sig wrote:Yeah I see you talking shit then refusing to admit anything. Then last second you admit to being a cylon even though you said you wouldn't?

If LC hadn't have flipped as Cain then this would've been a total failure which got another civ lynched. Just like two phases ago with Nero and Lorab.

DrWilgy wrote:Linki - okie dokie. Ty. I'm thinkin I'll claim and push Glorf up one vote if I can.

Spacedaisy wrote:I am very pleased with the results of this lynch. And it makes tomorrow an easy lynch in my opinion. I don't believe for one second that Wilgy is good.

sig wrote:No you made some jokey post about being a toaster that wasn't a claim it was you messing around.

DrWilgy wrote:I hope everyone knows that I died as I lived. A brave little toaster. A good toaster. A toaster that had eaten good food, had good friends, and good laughs.

DrWilgy wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:So you are a toaster then.

I'll never admit it. I'll just end up getting lynched tomorrow. I don't think civs will win if we are chasing our tails.

DrWilgy wrote:

bea wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:So you are a toaster then.

I'll never admit it. I'll just end up getting lynched tomorrow. I don't think civs will win if we are chasing our tails.

You are right. I share a desire to get rid of both Cavil and cain. Best guess as to who Cavil might be and why?

You guys. I am not having good feels about a wigly vote now. I think some things are clicking into place for me.

Imma follow zeebs vote.

sig

Best guess... I got nothing sadly. Only those who I gut read as bad.

Linki - LC, should I? I could.

DrWilgy wrote:I guess my mindset at this moment is... I could claim. That would mean there's an actual chance for a baddie lynch instead of me, but then I'd just get killed tomorrow.

My win condition is probably negated anyways, so all I can do is help civs as best as possible before I go.


What would help out the most at this point though... Idk. I could bite the bullet, that way everyone can stop worrying about reading me, and the game can progress. I could also claim and potentially get rid of Cavil (whatever those chances may be).

Linki - Hmm? What Daisy. I didn't understand that fully.

Linki @ Dex - then we will just have to go through this again tomorrow.

Silverwolf wrote:

DrWilgy wrote: Linki - @silver You woulda just killed me anyways then -__-

You waited until the last minute to claim and put us in another situation like Neuro and LoRab, wasted a bunch of votes, and put a lynch up that isn't the consensus.

Don't worry, I'll vote you tomorrow if I'm here. That's a promise.

Epignosis wrote:Wilgy making the inferior claim and then the correct one at 10:02pm EST indicates he isn't good.

sig wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Sig, Koth, and BR. You all voted me after I had stated that I'm most likely a good toaster (meaning I still have a vote negation). What is the point of voting me? Also my bandwagon is alittle too easy for my liking. I guess it's one thing for me to say myself rather someone else, but I now have a 5 vote lead when compared to others. Does that happen to baddies unless the baddies wanted it to happen? I don't think so.

Linki - WHAT. Sig. How could you have been caught up and had any doubt to whether or not I was a cyclon?

I skimmed. I thought you were a baddie, but since you had refused to claim I was thinking maybe you weren't a bad cylon. However, I don't think you're a good cylon even if you are one I seem to remember Lorabsaying the same thing.