The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:31 pm I trust you and I trust leetic. Let's end this.

Epi's shifted view on me and WWA without much of anything here. This reeks.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:10 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:26 pm I don't see why the idea of Brad being Davos should be so easily discounted. After all, it has been shown twice that socks don't die at the same time as their owners. Doing the bare minimum to avoid spewing is something I would easily see Brad doing. Still, if there is a remaining landlord, that would suggest that the arbiters have some sort of ace up their sleeve or, worse, a fifth member. If it's the former, there's at least a 3/4 chance said ace is dead, and if it's the latter, town is kind of screwed here anyway unless we get very lucky with crossfire.

Because I believe the puppet would've died if its puppetmaster had flipped. I don't see enough evidence to believe that Brad has been controlling it.

Why?

If you are town, why are we assuming how things work as if this is the case you've been led astray by it.

But because of you shoving like this in, potential lylo mind you, with "I believe this made up information which may determine the game" I don't know how I'm supposed to see anything but agenda.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:06 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:11 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:57 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:26 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:35 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:31 pm It seems Epi has already realized his mistake, but I'll go over the logic of Brad being Davos just to be sure. Cape90's role PM said that they were the only one who could see both threads, so Davos can't be anyone from my side, and Davos flipped as a wolf, meaning they can't be anyone who flipped town or ITP. Thus, there are only three people who Davos could possibly be: Brad, WWA, and Wilgy. Now look at the last day's lynch. Both WWA and Wilgy gave up a lynch on me (and on WWA in Wilgy's case) to get rid of Davos, with Davos also crossvoting WWA which would not be ideal if they were w/w. Keep in mind that if there is a living landlord remaining, having Davos alive would give them a huge advantage over the other team, and I don't see why they'd give it up so easily. Further, Davos's behavior does fit in with w!Brad's behavior when he was sent into my thread in Severance, so it does make sense.

Seems to me that a landlord would be willing to flip Davos if it gave them a chance to save themselves, if they didn't think they could build a wagon on anyone else. Especially if it's the one controlling the puppet; it would basically function as distancing from a teammate, except against their own puppet account.

This isn't super important, though, because Wilgy can still be an arbiter if I'm wrong. But my belief is that the arbiter is on the West side of the thread and that Wilgy was controlling Davos, because of what I said before about having a completely dead landlord team in a XyLo situation save for Davos.

"It's always Wilgy, but even if I'm wrong it's Wilgy? But it's also Delta"

WWA, assuming that it's not me, where do the remaining wolves lie?

My assumption is that it's you and Delta. There's no way it's not you, because of the Davos flip, unless Leetic is right and it was tied to Brad. But Davos was tied to someone who can only logically be in east.
I guess if I assume it was Brad and not you controlling Davos, I might reconsider leetic again, but I'm not particularly inclined to today.

"There's no way it's not you, because of the Davos flip" - but this contradicts your thoughts that I am an arbiter if not landlord?

You are looking for reasons to shove and don't actually believe what you are saying.

Nah, I'm not looking for reasons. I believe you have to be Davos's puppetmaster, and if you were town I would've expected you to push me for the same reason earlier in the day. But you put effort into building a case on me where there didn't need to be. I don't need to build a case on you because you have to be a wolf.

I'm not Davos's puppet master.

Why would I push you for the same reason? I've already explained why I don't think you are landlord, do you suddenly expect me to change those thoughts after successfully hitting the landlord in East?

I didn't put effort into a case on you, you've basically all but said "I have to yeet Wilgy" and only Arbiter WWA would believe that as vehemently and upfront as you did.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 6:28 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:51 pm Ctrl+fing "Epi" in Ricochet's ISO gives 41 results, but the amount of substantial interactions is far fewer, with the one I quoted being the only really notable one. It seems Ricochet was trying to use Epi to jumpstart a vote on Delta, possibly in an attempt to protect falcon and/or Lemonfairy.

Control F-ing Epi usually results in a lot of fun for the controller and...

Wait, where are you going?

Glad Kermit gets to enjoy themselves too.

Bleh, if we are in Arbiter controlled lylo, WWA's stance continues to make sense, but again confbias.

Also if 2 WWA has to be it because of the thread split, but eh.

In other words, if true we worry that we may be in Arbiter controlled lylo and if we survive we hope that crossfire removes a W and not a civ.

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:26 pm I don't see why the idea of Brad being Davos should be so easily discounted. After all, it has been shown twice that socks don't die at the same time as their owners. Doing the bare minimum to avoid spewing is something I would easily see Brad doing. Still, if there is a remaining landlord, that would suggest that the arbiters have some sort of ace up their sleeve or, worse, a fifth member. If it's the former, there's at least a 3/4 chance said ace is dead, and if it's the latter, town is kind of screwed here anyway unless we get very lucky with crossfire.

I'm not discounting it, but I am wondering what it gets us.

If we assume Davos is Brad and their goal was avoiding spewing, then we continue looking for the wolf assuming that the thread splits are now uneven.

If the Arbiters have 2 remaining and the game started at like a 5-4.5-1-1 split, then we should be able to remove at least 1 if not both remaining via assoc. Also means we have to hit an Arbiter this cycle or the game is toasted.

Like, where is the question, "if Davos is only proxy, and there's still a landlord in our thread, where's the Arbiter proxy?"

That inherently makes the threads uneven, but the conclusion that, in spite of that, I must be landlord (but maybe possibly arbiter) is wild to me.

Yeah, I've been chilling here thinking myself in circles about you this past hour.

Landlord WWA is even less likely to kill Nutella as that creates a risky Landlord, Landlord, Town PoE which is losing.

Town WWA's first assumption SHOULD be that I'm Arbiter as 2 landlords from their thread had been found and point 1 applies to me as well

It's only Arbiter WWA, who would argue that there's still an landlord pilot over that I'm just an Arbiter, as they know I can't be the remaining Arbiter. The mentions of "could still be an Arbiter" are unsubstantiated and just serve as "yeah I'm totally still considering that there's an arbiter in our thread."

[VOTE: WWA] aubergine

I think you accidentally overstepped your shove of me.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:57 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:26 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:35 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:31 pm It seems Epi has already realized his mistake, but I'll go over the logic of Brad being Davos just to be sure. Cape90's role PM said that they were the only one who could see both threads, so Davos can't be anyone from my side, and Davos flipped as a wolf, meaning they can't be anyone who flipped town or ITP. Thus, there are only three people who Davos could possibly be: Brad, WWA, and Wilgy. Now look at the last day's lynch. Both WWA and Wilgy gave up a lynch on me (and on WWA in Wilgy's case) to get rid of Davos, with Davos also crossvoting WWA which would not be ideal if they were w/w. Keep in mind that if there is a living landlord remaining, having Davos alive would give them a huge advantage over the other team, and I don't see why they'd give it up so easily. Further, Davos's behavior does fit in with w!Brad's behavior when he was sent into my thread in Severance, so it does make sense.

Seems to me that a landlord would be willing to flip Davos if it gave them a chance to save themselves, if they didn't think they could build a wagon on anyone else. Especially if it's the one controlling the puppet; it would basically function as distancing from a teammate, except against their own puppet account.

This isn't super important, though, because Wilgy can still be an arbiter if I'm wrong. But my belief is that the arbiter is on the West side of the thread and that Wilgy was controlling Davos, because of what I said before about having a completely dead landlord team in a XyLo situation save for Davos.

"It's always Wilgy, but even if I'm wrong it's Wilgy? But it's also Delta"

WWA, assuming that it's not me, where do the remaining wolves lie?

My assumption is that it's you and Delta. There's no way it's not you, because of the Davos flip, unless Leetic is right and it was tied to Brad. But Davos was tied to someone who can only logically be in east.
I guess if I assume it was Brad and not you controlling Davos, I might reconsider leetic again, but I'm not particularly inclined to today.

"There's no way it's not you, because of the Davos flip" - but this contradicts your thoughts that I am an arbiter if not landlord?

You are looking for reasons to shove and don't actually believe what you are saying.

Some thoughts as the kids pull me away again and I'm done with the skim.

WWA's worldview is wrong and comes from a slot where they at least think they know the state of the game. This reeks of TMI. Their thoughts on who the arbiter is almost feels secondary.

The thought that the Nutella kill comes from Epi/Leetic is somewhat undermined by the kill coming directly from Davos. Davos could've killed the slot and hoped to coast on the remaining PoE.

Epi's "Wilgy killed Sig" feels like yet another arbitrary argument towards me, but as I've seen one from everyone this game, maybe I'm the problem. My issue with suspecting Epi, is I agree with the thoughts on Leetics interactions with Davos.

Leetics actions, as argued yesterday, continue to be in alignment with Davos, which doesn't necessarily cause the Davos submitting the Nutella kill to be as Nutella kill theory breaking.

Delta I continue to have very little opinions on.

Everyone can't be wrong on the puppet mechanics, so I'm probably incorrect to be obtuse against them, but it still sits wrong that we are assuming so much. I'd like for players to review where their assumptions on mechanics came from as that may help me. Leetic going from assuming that the puppet can be taken care of via killing the owner to suddenly not, in addition to the constant argument that Cape being the only "player" that can see both threads feels more and more like mechanical opportunism, but I recognize that I'm biased at this point.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:40 pm I also do not think leetic or WWA would kill sig. That's a Wilgy move.

Why?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:34 pm My view is this:

Delta: Landlord

DrWilgy: Arbiter

Didn't you argue against me being an Arbiter previously?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:35 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:31 pm It seems Epi has already realized his mistake, but I'll go over the logic of Brad being Davos just to be sure. Cape90's role PM said that they were the only one who could see both threads, so Davos can't be anyone from my side, and Davos flipped as a wolf, meaning they can't be anyone who flipped town or ITP. Thus, there are only three people who Davos could possibly be: Brad, WWA, and Wilgy. Now look at the last day's lynch. Both WWA and Wilgy gave up a lynch on me (and on WWA in Wilgy's case) to get rid of Davos, with Davos also crossvoting WWA which would not be ideal if they were w/w. Keep in mind that if there is a living landlord remaining, having Davos alive would give them a huge advantage over the other team, and I don't see why they'd give it up so easily. Further, Davos's behavior does fit in with w!Brad's behavior when he was sent into my thread in Severance, so it does make sense.

Seems to me that a landlord would be willing to flip Davos if it gave them a chance to save themselves, if they didn't think they could build a wagon on anyone else. Especially if it's the one controlling the puppet; it would basically function as distancing from a teammate, except against their own puppet account.

This isn't super important, though, because Wilgy can still be an arbiter if I'm wrong. But my belief is that the arbiter is on the West side of the thread and that Wilgy was controlling Davos, because of what I said before about having a completely dead landlord team in a XyLo situation save for Davos.

"It's always Wilgy, but even if I'm wrong it's Wilgy? But it's also Delta"

WWA, assuming that it's not me, where do the remaining wolves lie?

So they were town and wolf aligned but didn't count?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:09 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:38 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:13 pm I don't really suspect Epi, either, because they moved their vote after I unvoted Davos, and I can't think of a reason why a wolf would rather flip a sock puppet than someone who's a mislunch.

But you GG'd me WHILE thinking this?

It was because of Epi's timing, though. Idk, I've been rethinking this all day and I feel like I'd rather flip Delta, except that I still believe you're Davos's owner.

And on the topic of Davos, yes, I remember what you said about how Scrappy and Davos came from games with different sock puppet mechanics. But if anything, I believe that would still make it more likely Scrappy mightve been an external player (for a total number of players that is odd) and Davos is a player in the game (not adding an extra to the count).

But then we're back to anyone from our thread Nutella and that still fails to make sense.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:21 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:10 pm Nope. Still doesn't check out.

leetic said this in RESPONSE to you saying, "you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us."

If leetic has civilian information, then leetic is breaking the rules, but the response doesn't make sense in that context as a reply to you.

I don't think that's the case. I think leetic flat out goofed.

I think leetic was just saying that Davos could've taken up a second landlord slot without being a separate player, though. Which I'm not sure I agree with, because then that would be 3 landlords and a puppet, which feels a little off.

If that one feels off to you, why did no one jump to the opposition of the Davos yeet? If there are 2 remaining landlord voices in the game, why weren't they pushing for end game?

It would've been easy enough to do.

Yeah and skimming Scrappy, the closest thing I get to "puppet supporting owner" is interactions with LC, but that's not even firm.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:15 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:13 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:05 pm To everyone else: you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us.

Brad being Davos makes enough sense. I do think Wilgy is likely the remaining Arbiter though

Ah shit, I forgot that the sock puppets might not die when the owners do
Isn't that kind of crazy, though, like if we yeeted all the remaining wolves out of the thread and ignored Davos, the landlords would just win by existing?

Why/where did the sock puppet assumptions come from? Who defined a sock as linked to an in game player?

I assumed that there was something that said this, but this was never the case in thread. I stated this previously, but the behavior of both original games Scrappy and Davos came from were different, where Scrappy was linked and Davos WAS the player.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:13 pm I don't really suspect Epi, either, because they moved their vote after I unvoted Davos, and I can't think of a reason why a wolf would rather flip a sock puppet than someone who's a mislunch.

But you GG'd me WHILE thinking this?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:04 pm [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

You played a really good game, mate.

When you go from how we were las cycle to this, this almost feels preformatory.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:51 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:48 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:43 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:41 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:37 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:36 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:32 pm

You know there are two seperate wolves right? This post feels really fake

Aye, if I need to flip to toss you and they eventually get to the remaining wolf that's perfectly fine.

And pray tell, how will they do this exactly? Mislynching me means it's 3-1-1 discounting Davos, and if town gets nightkilled it's basically unwinnable.

but you aren't a misyeet.

Sea tá mé

I'll be more fair,

SO, if I'm incorrect, we likely just lose.

If I'm incorrect that implies that you are incorrect as well on my slot and we just lose still.

So what's the point and who's the correct option? I've already outlined that I only think you/epi ever even think about the Nutella kill. Why am I incorrect on that?

First, you're locked into the idea that nothing could have mechanically affected the nutella kill, which is not a safe assumption when we know little about the setup. Secondly, wolves don't always make "optimal" kill choices, especially if they can build a narrative out of them (implicitly or explicitly). The nutella kill on its own is WIFOM unless you can build a larger narrative that connects it to previous kills and how that would point to a certain person being a wolf.

Ok, so let's say something mechanically affected the kill, then we should still, by all means be yeeting in Davos or WWA. If I'm wrong on WWA, we lose. If I'm wrong on Davos, meh, that's probably fine.

I think the thing about the later part, Nutella kill being WIFOM, I don't think at any point Nutella being killed had WIFOM implications. Even my thoughts were generally formed AFTER people had time to interact with the Nutella kill. Epi gunning for Delta following it, for example, was the basis on why it makes less sense for Epi to have made that kill.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:45 pm I am picturing choking the life out of Kermit the Frog right now.

After grabbing the lingerie, hopefully not in any way related to that.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:47 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:46 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:41 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:39 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:35 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:32 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:27 pm

So your logic is that I had to kill nutella because she wanted to kill in my side. I point out that she was interested in pushing WWA and you. Then you counter by saying nutella also suspected Delta. And this makes nutella a threat to me how? Unless Delta is my partner, which would require a team of five, this still makes no sense. It's your narrative that's contrived.

Absolutely, with MR and Nutella gone, who does it leave to push outside of this bs PoE you have established? If Delta goes over instead of you, that's just icing on the cake and you don't need to pretend to hunt for wolves within your golden PoE.

nutella is only a threat to me if she pushes me, not if she pushes Delta. If I wanted Delta gone, wouldn't I leave nutella alive? You're grasping at straws here

Aye, but why would you want Delta gone? Delta being around is just more padding for you. At the end of the day, who would've been able to break your bad PoE? Nutella? Who would've been more likely to just continue joining you on your bad PoE? Delta?

So your idea is that I want to win by pushing people in the other side, and Delta going down is a threat to that plan because reasons? If I was a wolf they'd be as good a mislynch as any other

What part do I need to reexplain for the 4th time?

Delta going down is not a threat to your plan. Delta going down can happen and it's probably not the end of the world to you. This doesn't change the fact, that you'd PREFER a cleaner Wilgy/WWA chainyeet bait. Nutella arguing against the wider PoE changes that.

Why would I prefer that? Ego points?

It's definitely cleaner. I don't think I've seen a situation where a wolf needlessly increases their chance to be yeeted.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:43 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:41 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:37 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:36 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:32 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:30 pm I'm actually at the point where if I'm wrong on Leetic, just toss me next cycle.

Hell, toss me this cycle, and if the game is still going on after my flip, toss Leetic next phase.

You know there are two seperate wolves right? This post feels really fake

Aye, if I need to flip to toss you and they eventually get to the remaining wolf that's perfectly fine.

And pray tell, how will they do this exactly? Mislynching me means it's 3-1-1 discounting Davos, and if town gets nightkilled it's basically unwinnable.

but you aren't a misyeet.

Sea tá mé

I'll be more fair,

SO, if I'm incorrect, we likely just lose.

If I'm incorrect that implies that you are incorrect as well on my slot and we just lose still.

So what's the point and who's the correct option? I've already outlined that I only think you/epi ever even think about the Nutella kill. Why am I incorrect on that?

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:41 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:39 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:35 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:32 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:27 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:10 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:46 pm

nutella was voting WWA lol. I don't think this narrative you are trying to push holds up.

No, you can't just call the narrative wrong when you continue to push your own false narrative, so let's continue:

The question is, ' why Nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective.'

My answer is because they were against keeping to the east as a firm PoE.

You, state 'Nutella suspected Wilgy and WWA.'

I've quoted the points where Nutella, did suspect WWA, but also wished to push Delta and not stick to the East as PoE.

You, quote singularly, where Nutella suspected WWA, but this doesn't contradict the argument that Nutella wanted to yeet Delta as well and thought that sticking to east was wrong.

When called out for the incorrect argument, you start calling my arguments reeking of desperation that the narrative I'm pushing isn't holding up. You have not brought anything to the discussion that actually argues anything I've stated trying to force the belief that 'Nutella suspected both WWA and I' which is inaccurate. The more I look at this, the more it feels as if you had strictly killed Nutella in effort to force this false narrative, and when called out for it you seek to discredit through gut takes like desperation and quotes that don't detail the entire story.

So your logic is that I had to kill nutella because she wanted to kill in my side. I point out that she was interested in pushing WWA and you. Then you counter by saying nutella also suspected Delta. And this makes nutella a threat to me how? Unless Delta is my partner, which would require a team of five, this still makes no sense. It's your narrative that's contrived.

Absolutely, with MR and Nutella gone, who does it leave to push outside of this bs PoE you have established? If Delta goes over instead of you, that's just icing on the cake and you don't need to pretend to hunt for wolves within your golden PoE.

nutella is only a threat to me if she pushes me, not if she pushes Delta. If I wanted Delta gone, wouldn't I leave nutella alive? You're grasping at straws here

Aye, but why would you want Delta gone? Delta being around is just more padding for you. At the end of the day, who would've been able to break your bad PoE? Nutella? Who would've been more likely to just continue joining you on your bad PoE? Delta?

So your idea is that I want to win by pushing people in the other side, and Delta going down is a threat to that plan because reasons? If I was a wolf they'd be as good a mislynch as any other

What part do I need to reexplain for the 4th time?

Delta going down is not a threat to your plan. Delta going down can happen and it's probably not the end of the world to you. This doesn't change the fact, that you'd PREFER a cleaner Wilgy/WWA chainyeet bait. Nutella arguing against the wider PoE changes that.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:37 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:36 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:32 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:30 pm I'm actually at the point where if I'm wrong on Leetic, just toss me next cycle.

Hell, toss me this cycle, and if the game is still going on after my flip, toss Leetic next phase.

You know there are two seperate wolves right? This post feels really fake

Aye, if I need to flip to toss you and they eventually get to the remaining wolf that's perfectly fine.

And pray tell, how will they do this exactly? Mislynching me means it's 3-1-1 discounting Davos, and if town gets nightkilled it's basically unwinnable.

but you aren't a misyeet.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:36 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:35 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:29 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:19 pm

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:00 pm Ignoring the sock we’re at 4-1-1

If we misvote today and have 1 night kill then we’ve still got a final phase.

Also the flip side with my Wilgy read is he could still be mafia just landlord. So there’s that

I'm still finding it unwise to ignore the sock.

And still that's what you're basically doing

Still pretty sure yeeting you helps us get to the sock.

If the sock becomes a legitimate option, I'll vote the sock.

[VOTE: Davos] aubergine

Stop being a coward. Put your money where your mouth is.

Wowee! And finally we are addressing the sock.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:35 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:32 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:27 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:10 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:46 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:32 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:22 pm

Likely they assumed nutella was a wolf. Mechanical interference like redirecting is also a possibility, but there's no use speculating on it when there's no claiming. I don't see why you think that nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective. Furthermore, I think this is all a distraction from the fact that there are almost certainly unflipped wolves from your side. Do you really think WWA is town?

Ah, now we'll ignore mech determining the way things are occurring this game.

"Nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective." - I've already stated this, Nutella wanted to yeet out of the east PoE, this has been one of the pillars of my argument this entire dialogue. You've posted quotes that fulfill a false narrative about it and pretended it's not the case.

No, I don't think WWA is town, BUT I also don't think they make the Nutella kill. IF WWA flips town, I do not we win this game.

nutella was voting WWA lol. I don't think this narrative you are trying to push holds up.

No, you can't just call the narrative wrong when you continue to push your own false narrative, so let's continue:

The question is, ' why Nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective.'

My answer is because they were against keeping to the east as a firm PoE.

You, state 'Nutella suspected Wilgy and WWA.'

I've quoted the points where Nutella, did suspect WWA, but also wished to push Delta and not stick to the East as PoE.

You, quote singularly, where Nutella suspected WWA, but this doesn't contradict the argument that Nutella wanted to yeet Delta as well and thought that sticking to east was wrong.

When called out for the incorrect argument, you start calling my arguments reeking of desperation that the narrative I'm pushing isn't holding up. You have not brought anything to the discussion that actually argues anything I've stated trying to force the belief that 'Nutella suspected both WWA and I' which is inaccurate. The more I look at this, the more it feels as if you had strictly killed Nutella in effort to force this false narrative, and when called out for it you seek to discredit through gut takes like desperation and quotes that don't detail the entire story.

So your logic is that I had to kill nutella because she wanted to kill in my side. I point out that she was interested in pushing WWA and you. Then you counter by saying nutella also suspected Delta. And this makes nutella a threat to me how? Unless Delta is my partner, which would require a team of five, this still makes no sense. It's your narrative that's contrived.

Absolutely, with MR and Nutella gone, who does it leave to push outside of this bs PoE you have established? If Delta goes over instead of you, that's just icing on the cake and you don't need to pretend to hunt for wolves within your golden PoE.

nutella is only a threat to me if she pushes me, not if she pushes Delta. If I wanted Delta gone, wouldn't I leave nutella alive? You're grasping at straws here

Aye, but why would you want Delta gone? Delta being around is just more padding for you. At the end of the day, who would've been able to break your bad PoE? Nutella? Who would've been more likely to just continue joining you on your bad PoE? Delta?

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:32 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:30 pm I'm actually at the point where if I'm wrong on Leetic, just toss me next cycle.

Hell, toss me this cycle, and if the game is still going on after my flip, toss Leetic next phase.

You know there are two seperate wolves right? This post feels really fake

Aye, if I need to flip to toss you and they eventually get to the remaining wolf that's perfectly fine.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:29 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:19 pm

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:00 pm Ignoring the sock we’re at 4-1-1

If we misvote today and have 1 night kill then we’ve still got a final phase.

Also the flip side with my Wilgy read is he could still be mafia just landlord. So there’s that

I'm still finding it unwise to ignore the sock.

And still that's what you're basically doing

Still pretty sure yeeting you helps us get to the sock.

If the sock becomes a legitimate option, I'll vote the sock.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:29 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:26 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:08 pm Wilgy has essentially been forced into an unsustainable PoE, while WWA at least seems to realize the gravity of their situation.

How is WWA exempt from this unsustainable PoE? Why am I the focus here, what makes us different?

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:08 pm While I do hold that the nutella kill makes more sense from WWA than Wilgy, as I said earlier it may be wiser to kill the wolf that didn't make the kill, in case the "one team kills on odd nights and the other on even nights" theory is true. Further, WWA has been very active, and while powerwolfing is a thing Wilgy seems content to mostly skate by and only lash out while he is in danger.

Or it doesn't make sense from any wolf on the east side to do so. "Wilgy seems content to mostly skate by and only lash out" alright more discrediting.

WWA is pushing you. You aren't pushing WWA. I can believe that WWA believes the threads are split 5-3. I can't believe that you believe they're split 6-2.

The thread counts has done nothing but got us a town yeet after town yeet. You are way scummier than WWA and there's no shot WWA submitted the Nutella NK.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:27 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:10 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:46 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:32 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:22 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:18 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:07 pm

Because that totally wouldn't case the remaining wolves to lash out at my side of the thread! I'm starting to wonder if that is the reason

Doesn't even make sense as a counter point. You're arguing that wolves are in east, killed nutella, and are now because they've put a chokehold poe on themselves, they are suddenly lashing at your thread for pursuing that PoE?

Back to the, why make that kill in the first place?

also, as I can assume this commentary is directed, I'm not lashing at your thread. I've cased specifically you, as the agenda all makes sense, and considered the others INCLUDING players on east.

Likely they assumed nutella was a wolf. Mechanical interference like redirecting is also a possibility, but there's no use speculating on it when there's no claiming. I don't see why you think that nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective. Furthermore, I think this is all a distraction from the fact that there are almost certainly unflipped wolves from your side. Do you really think WWA is town?

Ah, now we'll ignore mech determining the way things are occurring this game.

"Nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective." - I've already stated this, Nutella wanted to yeet out of the east PoE, this has been one of the pillars of my argument this entire dialogue. You've posted quotes that fulfill a false narrative about it and pretended it's not the case.

No, I don't think WWA is town, BUT I also don't think they make the Nutella kill. IF WWA flips town, I do not we win this game.

nutella was voting WWA lol. I don't think this narrative you are trying to push holds up.

No, you can't just call the narrative wrong when you continue to push your own false narrative, so let's continue:

The question is, ' why Nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective.'

My answer is because they were against keeping to the east as a firm PoE.

You, state 'Nutella suspected Wilgy and WWA.'

I've quoted the points where Nutella, did suspect WWA, but also wished to push Delta and not stick to the East as PoE.

You, quote singularly, where Nutella suspected WWA, but this doesn't contradict the argument that Nutella wanted to yeet Delta as well and thought that sticking to east was wrong.

When called out for the incorrect argument, you start calling my arguments reeking of desperation that the narrative I'm pushing isn't holding up. You have not brought anything to the discussion that actually argues anything I've stated trying to force the belief that 'Nutella suspected both WWA and I' which is inaccurate. The more I look at this, the more it feels as if you had strictly killed Nutella in effort to force this false narrative, and when called out for it you seek to discredit through gut takes like desperation and quotes that don't detail the entire story.

So your logic is that I had to kill nutella because she wanted to kill in my side. I point out that she was interested in pushing WWA and you. Then you counter by saying nutella also suspected Delta. And this makes nutella a threat to me how? Unless Delta is my partner, which would require a team of five, this still makes no sense. It's your narrative that's contrived.

Absolutely, with MR and Nutella gone, who does it leave to push outside of this bs PoE you have established? If Delta goes over instead of you, that's just icing on the cake and you don't need to pretend to hunt for wolves within your golden PoE.

I'm actually at the point where if I'm wrong on Leetic, just toss me next cycle.

Hell, toss me this cycle, and if the game is still going on after my flip, toss Leetic next phase.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:08 pm In truth, I believe Wilgy is slightly more likely to flip wolf right now than WWA. Wilgy has essentially been forced into an unsustainable PoE, while WWA at least seems to realize the gravity of their situation. While I do hold that the nutella kill makes more sense from WWA than Wilgy, as I said earlier it may be wiser to kill the wolf that didn't make the kill, in case the "one team kills on odd nights and the other on even nights" theory is true. Further, WWA has been very active, and while powerwolfing is a thing Wilgy seems content to mostly skate by and only lash out while he is in danger. Still, WWA's contentness with going down when town has little to no room for error here has me concerned.

That leads to a different issue though, where right now WWA is the right vote for self-preservation from my perspective. But if anyone wants to start a Wilgy wagon I'll be on board.

This entire post is smuckus.

Avoids the absolutely necessary question and only tries to garner support for my wagon's existence through discrediting.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:08 pm Wilgy has essentially been forced into an unsustainable PoE, while WWA at least seems to realize the gravity of their situation.

How is WWA exempt from this unsustainable PoE? Why am I the focus here, what makes us different?

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:08 pm While I do hold that the nutella kill makes more sense from WWA than Wilgy, as I said earlier it may be wiser to kill the wolf that didn't make the kill, in case the "one team kills on odd nights and the other on even nights" theory is true. Further, WWA has been very active, and while powerwolfing is a thing Wilgy seems content to mostly skate by and only lash out while he is in danger.

Or it doesn't make sense from any wolf on the east side to do so. "Wilgy seems content to mostly skate by and only lash out" alright more discrediting.

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:00 pm Ignoring the sock we’re at 4-1-1

If we misvote today and have 1 night kill then we’ve still got a final phase.

Also the flip side with my Wilgy read is he could still be mafia just landlord. So there’s that

I'm still finding it unwise to ignore the sock.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:04 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:39 pm I don't see myself voting outside of Davos or Leetic this cycle.

My biggest qualm leetic is that I've seen them be this obstinate about sticking to a PoE based on their own assumptions before as town, even if the assumptions weren't correct. I do think I spotted an inconsistency in their logic, but I'm not sure if that's enough to make me want to vote them. They're pushing aggressively but also drawing attention to themself that way, versus Delta who honestly could be coasting with a lot of attention diverted.

I think I'm growing more frustrated that the argument dribbled down to gut takes and quotes that don't reveal the full story. If this is town we lose anyways. If there was a shred of energy put into actually analyzing what I'm saying, then I think town would at least see how things aren't lining up here for the PoE to be flawless.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:09 pm Ok hi
I have a couple minutes but I don't think I'll be back again for eod and I need to vote
Gut tells me to vote Wilgy because there's a very high chance he's a wolf
Brain says if he flips town we lose the game and we absolutely need a wolf
But I'm probably overthinking it?

This is pretty much my exact stance on you lol.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:46 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:32 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:22 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:18 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:07 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:00 pm My argument is, Nut was killed so that you could continue the push of East side players.

You're response is, 'but look, nut suspected both of you' and you then post a lone suspicion on WWA and avoid all the posts of Nut advocating for west as well.

Because that totally wouldn't case the remaining wolves to lash out at my side of the thread! I'm starting to wonder if that is the reason

Doesn't even make sense as a counter point. You're arguing that wolves are in east, killed nutella, and are now because they've put a chokehold poe on themselves, they are suddenly lashing at your thread for pursuing that PoE?

Back to the, why make that kill in the first place?

also, as I can assume this commentary is directed, I'm not lashing at your thread. I've cased specifically you, as the agenda all makes sense, and considered the others INCLUDING players on east.

Likely they assumed nutella was a wolf. Mechanical interference like redirecting is also a possibility, but there's no use speculating on it when there's no claiming. I don't see why you think that nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective. Furthermore, I think this is all a distraction from the fact that there are almost certainly unflipped wolves from your side. Do you really think WWA is town?

Ah, now we'll ignore mech determining the way things are occurring this game.

"Nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective." - I've already stated this, Nutella wanted to yeet out of the east PoE, this has been one of the pillars of my argument this entire dialogue. You've posted quotes that fulfill a false narrative about it and pretended it's not the case.

No, I don't think WWA is town, BUT I also don't think they make the Nutella kill. IF WWA flips town, I do not we win this game.

nutella was voting WWA lol. I don't think this narrative you are trying to push holds up.

No, you can't just call the narrative wrong when you continue to push your own false narrative, so let's continue:

The question is, ' why Nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective.'

My answer is because they were against keeping to the east as a firm PoE.

You, state 'Nutella suspected Wilgy and WWA.'

I've quoted the points where Nutella, did suspect WWA, but also wished to push Delta and not stick to the East as PoE.

You, quote singularly, where Nutella suspected WWA, but this doesn't contradict the argument that Nutella wanted to yeet Delta as well and thought that sticking to east was wrong.

When called out for the incorrect argument, you start calling my arguments reeking of desperation that the narrative I'm pushing isn't holding up. You have not brought anything to the discussion that actually argues anything I've stated trying to force the belief that 'Nutella suspected both WWA and I' which is inaccurate. The more I look at this, the more it feels as if you had strictly killed Nutella in effort to force this false narrative, and when called out for it you seek to discredit through gut takes like desperation and quotes that don't detail the entire story.

I don't see myself voting outside of Davos or Leetic this cycle.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:22 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:18 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:07 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:00 pm My argument is, Nut was killed so that you could continue the push of East side players.

You're response is, 'but look, nut suspected both of you' and you then post a lone suspicion on WWA and avoid all the posts of Nut advocating for west as well.

Because that totally wouldn't case the remaining wolves to lash out at my side of the thread! I'm starting to wonder if that is the reason

Doesn't even make sense as a counter point. You're arguing that wolves are in east, killed nutella, and are now because they've put a chokehold poe on themselves, they are suddenly lashing at your thread for pursuing that PoE?

Back to the, why make that kill in the first place?

also, as I can assume this commentary is directed, I'm not lashing at your thread. I've cased specifically you, as the agenda all makes sense, and considered the others INCLUDING players on east.

Likely they assumed nutella was a wolf. Mechanical interference like redirecting is also a possibility, but there's no use speculating on it when there's no claiming. I don't see why you think that nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective. Furthermore, I think this is all a distraction from the fact that there are almost certainly unflipped wolves from your side. Do you really think WWA is town?

Ah, now we'll ignore mech determining the way things are occurring this game.

"Nutella would be a better kill than someone from my side or even WWA from my perspective." - I've already stated this, Nutella wanted to yeet out of the east PoE, this has been one of the pillars of my argument this entire dialogue. You've posted quotes that fulfill a false narrative about it and pretended it's not the case.

No, I don't think WWA is town, BUT I also don't think they make the Nutella kill. IF WWA flips town, I do not we win this game.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:18 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:07 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:00 pm My argument is, Nut was killed so that you could continue the push of East side players.

You're response is, 'but look, nut suspected both of you' and you then post a lone suspicion on WWA and avoid all the posts of Nut advocating for west as well.

Because that totally wouldn't case the remaining wolves to lash out at my side of the thread! I'm starting to wonder if that is the reason

Doesn't even make sense as a counter point. You're arguing that wolves are in east, killed nutella, and are now because they've put a chokehold poe on themselves, they are suddenly lashing at your thread for pursuing that PoE?

Back to the, why make that kill in the first place?

also, as I can assume this commentary is directed, I'm not lashing at your thread. I've cased specifically you, as the agenda all makes sense, and considered the others INCLUDING players on east.

Further on the directed commentary, why would this even come across as lashing when I even went through this exercise with MR last cycle?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:15 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:04 pm What I'm struggling with is the fact that in a vacuum I'd much rather vote Delta or Sig or even TSP or Epi, but I'm instead supposed to focus on a PoE of 3 others whom I largely find nothing wrong with.

SO, if we expand the PoE, who and why?

Delta I kinda get.

Sig I still think is town in spite of certain thread entrances made today.

Epi based on Falc/DM treatment I had an eye raised for but nothing more as this does feel like town Epi.

I'll even toss Leetic in there as Leetic's vote on me following what looks like busywork came off as really off to me (I acknowlege that there's a large bit of omgussy bias in here, but after several unexplained suspicions of me, I think my omgussy bias is at least not worth throwing away immediately.)

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:07 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:00 pm My argument is, Nut was killed so that you could continue the push of East side players.

You're response is, 'but look, nut suspected both of you' and you then post a lone suspicion on WWA and avoid all the posts of Nut advocating for west as well.

Because that totally wouldn't case the remaining wolves to lash out at my side of the thread! I'm starting to wonder if that is the reason

Doesn't even make sense as a counter point. You're arguing that wolves are in east, killed nutella, and are now because they've put a chokehold poe on themselves, they are suddenly lashing at your thread for pursuing that PoE?

Back to the, why make that kill in the first place?

also, as I can assume this commentary is directed, I'm not lashing at your thread. I've cased specifically you, as the agenda all makes sense, and considered the others INCLUDING players on east.

My argument is, Nut was killed so that you could continue the push of East side players.

You're response is, 'but look, nut suspected both of you' and you then post a lone suspicion on WWA and avoid all the posts of Nut advocating for west as well.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:56 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:54 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:45 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:42 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:39 pm Actually uhhh 360 no scope [VOTE: windwardaway] aubergine

I just got bored enough to finally go back to reading some east facility isos and I feel better about wilgy and worse about wind again

Think wilgy posts dont quite make sense with either team but wind fits as landlord (and radish could still be the arbiter)

Wilgy did basically just never interact with brad yeah but idk just a vibe that i could easily see him as just uninformed while i could see your brad comments as a light bus

Read Brad's response to me, though
He didn't even reply directly to me and just went like, oh man, I thought you were town as soon as I voted him

You are the only non-flipped (non-me) name in his town list and I think it's decently likely he included his teammate actually. Put you second. I mean either way that gets read is just gonna be confbiased but I don't see why his response to you can't be a teammate interaction

You were saying?

This was before any of the actual discussion on the poe being 'wrong' had evolved.

Further, this has no context to Nut agreeing/disagreeing on where the wolves lie.

This was Nut's suspicion on WWA exclusively.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:54 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:45 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:42 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:39 pm Actually uhhh 360 no scope [VOTE: windwardaway] aubergine

I just got bored enough to finally go back to reading some east facility isos and I feel better about wilgy and worse about wind again

Think wilgy posts dont quite make sense with either team but wind fits as landlord (and radish could still be the arbiter)

Wilgy did basically just never interact with brad yeah but idk just a vibe that i could easily see him as just uninformed while i could see your brad comments as a light bus

Read Brad's response to me, though
He didn't even reply directly to me and just went like, oh man, I thought you were town as soon as I voted him

You are the only non-flipped (non-me) name in his town list and I think it's decently likely he included his teammate actually. Put you second. I mean either way that gets read is just gonna be confbiased but I don't see why his response to you can't be a teammate interaction

You were saying?

This was before any of the actual discussion on the poe being 'wrong' had evolved.

It took all of 3 min to click on Nut's iso and see contrary to what you're saying.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:43 pm You have to consider the reverse too; if wolves are only in the other side they'd want to encourage people to vote in my side as much as possible. nutella was unlikely to do this as she suspected Wilgy and WWA, so this may be another reason why she was killed.

This is just strictly wrong,

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:41 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:04 pm What I'm struggling with is the fact that in a vacuum I'd much rather vote Delta or Sig or even TSP or Epi, but I'm instead supposed to focus on a PoE of 3 others whom I largely find nothing wrong with.

yeah this

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:53 pm delta's mafia tbh ngl imo btw

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:10 pm I won't fight a Radishes yeet for sure but my current called shot is wind + delta