The Syndicate

DrWilgy wrote:It's finally over... Thanks hosts! This game was crazy!

I'm sorry I let you down team! Next time!

Diiny, what game are you plaging in next? I gotta get you back! You broke all my nefarious schemes!!

MovingPictures07 wrote:Host Announcement:

Sloonei and I have decided that we will be ending Nights as soon as possible after they have started going forward until the game is complete, in the interest of wrapping up this endgame. The amount of Night actions we need is getting way too low to keep the phases 24 hours with potentially 4 or less players remaining.

If this is going to be a scheduling problem, PM me and Sloonei.

Ricochet wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I thought the 8-bit version of TMbtP I used for Wilgy's death was fun.

Indeed! I enjoyed it so much I started working on this:

and have been trying to get it adjusted to the beat of the song.

Wilgyson, help me host a NES mafia in which you create animated versions of the players.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I thought the 8-bit version of TMbtP I used for Wilgy's death was fun.

Ricochet wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I thought that my thinking it was a bad idea was implied on the basis of it being a save.

If I agreed with the Sig lynch, then I wouldn't had even declared it as a save, rather I would've just voted.

Seeing that I had my vote on Choutas for a majority of that day and me vocalizing my thoughts on him, until near EOD, my vote makes sense in the fact that it would've been a waste otherwise. At least with my vote on Sig, I was gambling on my belief that Fuzz wasn't a baddie.

You never verbalized that.

You have your vote on Choutas for two hours and 42 minutes, during the late stages of the Day. I don't have an earlier vote from you on Choutas in my spreadsheets.

An hour before voting Sig, you said this:

DrWilgy wrote:Anyone willing to lynch JJJ today? I do not want Fuzz to be lynched at this point, and will save him if needed.

So you DID have an intent to rally people against someone you actually suspected. But then, you went with the save on a player you hardly mentioned, let alone suspected. Sorry, but you willfully contributed to a civ getting lynched, without suspecting said civ, only wanting to save another civ. It is what it is. It would look bad on anyone not saying the magic words "I suspect this player slightly more and also want to save the player he's pitted against", so I'm reading it as looking bad for you. That's my whole point.

You talked and sussed Choutas all day.
You suggested JJJ as counterwagon to Fuzz.
You voted the actual counterwagon instead of Fuzz.

Tell me where the consistency in all of this lies.

Ricochet wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I like the analysis Rico, I have one question though. What about "sinking Sig" looks terrible if I'm a baddie? Does it not look terrible because I'm a civ?

You had absolutely nothing on sig that I can recall. You voted him to backslide from a Fuzz lynch, due to a new perspective on him or something alike. For all I know, you could be a baddie waffling between two wagons you would have known are likely civs (non-mafia, anyway). You backsliding on an highly unreasoned vote makes it even worse.

Diiny wrote:Don't assert that I don't play to win. WHAT YOU SAYIN' BOUT RYM, FAM?

We infodump and we lynch lurkers too sometimes. But lurking is only just another activity that a person can do, and should be taken into account alongside all the evidence. It does not make someone an instalynch.

Diiny wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:"Recent"

https://embed.gyazo.com/26d89def7d34e07 ... fabaed.png

bad in gun to head isn't the same as a consistently voiced well reasoned read. I'd feel good if you could show me some of that in your PH. My Ctrl F skills aren't perfect

Diiny wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Hmm... Do tell, what do you do if you are stuck in a LYLO situation with a player who is playing who seems slightly scummy by thier play, but not enough to lynch them in a non LYLO situation, and a player who isn't playing at all?

Depends how scummy I think each player is. Depends in what context the non-player stopped playing, how gradually, etc. If that makes him moer scummy that lightly scummy, he gets the vote. If not, yadda yadda. Good example of how lynching a non player doesn't nullify a mislynch, though: mislynching him still loses the game.

Diiny wrote:

@Diiny, what? Are you saying that in a situation, where you don't have the chance to lynch a player that you have a clear baddie lynch on, you would rather kill a player who you are less sure of rather than a not playing person? You would take the chance on someone you don't have full and decisive opinions about and possibly mislynch them? when there is someone else who's life makes the chance for a civ victory harder just by being alive?

I would kill someone I thought was scum (x) over someone not playing (y) if I believed the x was scummier than y. The point is that the way bullzeye was not playing made him scummy- you didn't touch on that and instead, like fuzz, started justifying his mislynch with some weird logic that seems to think that a player not playing advances the mafia win condition.

Diiny wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Diiny wrote:I think Fuzz touched up on this earlier, but had Bullzeye been a civ and given up, there was a good chance we would've lost the game. So the mentality was to get rid of the flower before we were at a LYLO situation, making him an alright Lynch candidate.

This doesn't make sense. I said it then to fuzz and I'll say it now. Lynching someone who would lose you the game if he were town DOES NOT MEAN LYNCHING HIM IF HE'S TOWN FIXES ANYTHING. Excuse my caps

You're basing a lot of your reads over something pretty trivial: SK placement. Townies are BOUND to be wrong about something so specific. Especially as relatively early into the game as epi's death. What about their accusations of epi struck you as bad rather than just townies making a mistake as townies are bound to do on such a tricky subject?

Diiny wrote:Wilgy, did you ever explain why you voted bully despite J being the scummiest of your reads?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:So... I appreciate that you are at least trying to look at both sides of the coin, but it seems that you are discrediting other possibilities. Let's look at mafia general play here, they already had a failed kill at the point of Mac's lynch. Mac being the most vocal of mafia, it wouldn't surprise me if he was leading the team at that point. In the Fuzz mafia spew, you had stated that it'd be really sloppy for a teammate to interact with one another in a fashion between them, even though evidence of sloppiness was already present.

I'm sorry Doc but I don't follow what you're saying here. What does the failed kill have to do with this discussion? What does Mac's potential leadership have to do with it? What was the already-present evidence of mafia sloppiness?

DrWilgy wrote:You managed to discredit that sloppiness and you placed Fuzz in an area of not being a teammate with Mac. In Mac's interactions with me, would it be stretching to assume that he was attempting to fling shit everywhere? Mac flinging shit everywhere seemed to be the norm for him (I mean, he did say in his interrogation that mind fucking civvies was his favorite personal mafia trait). It can be seen again in the interactions between Mac and Fuzz, Mac changing his mind on Fuzz, he's throwing shit. Do we clear Fuzz, because Mac did? or do we think this implicates him?

Sure, Mac likes to fling shit. He went into chaos mode and flung plenty of it. To this point, we've successfully read into some of it. When do you assert he flung shit specifically with regards to you? Just when he was critical of you? That doesn't inspire me. I'm not going to ask you to tell me what Mac was thinking or defend yourself in light of his contributions -- but they're still relevant to my read on you.

DrWilgy wrote:In regards to your theory on the Equus incident reference, I have a problem with point #1 that you believe.

If Mac really wanted to claim credibility for connecting the two, wouldn't he pursue it more? Isn't the point of bussing, to make it believable? If I am Mac's teamate, and he wanted to take credit for the reference, wouldn't it be in his best interest to pursue those similarities? The other thing to keep in mind, is that a baddie can't soft clear anyone by going too hard on them. Had Mac hard pursued the similarities between the Equus incident and my charts, what would you think about them? would you think there was more or less credibility to them? From an outside perspective, I think it would've put me in the green on his flip, so rather pursue something that may end up being dangerous later, Mac flung some shit and ran.

He did pursue them. He drew parallels between that incident and your own contributions and vaguely criticized you at various junctures of the game before [arguably] trying to get you lynched on Day 6. I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make here.

DrWilgy wrote:I'll continue tomorrow after work.. I got busy and it got late D: I plan on reviewing all of these pages and commenting on things regarding me in the order that I see them, regardless of what else comes to follow.

There might not be a tomorrow. I frankly don't even want to see you defend yourself all day anyway, I want to see some READS. I have no idea what you think of anyone in this tally aside from calling me the SK. You have to do better than that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Mafia spew review for DrWilgy:

Long Con

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:Congratulations, JJJ and Wilgy!

Long Con wrote:I don't think it's that likely that JJJ, Epig and the other person all voted as baddies together. Too risky. The votes for JJJ and Wilgy seemed pretty natural to me, as I recall.

Congratulates Doc and I for our Dusk 0 elections, and then says he thinks the votes for both of us seemed "pretty natural". For reference, these were Wilgy's voters on Dusk 0 (in order):

Metalmarsh89, Ricochet, Devin the Omniscient, motel room, and birdwithteeth11

Might be worth chewing on for later.

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Before any quotes, I'd like to point out an initial suspicion. It never sits right with me when someone claims that they will be changing and/or playing with a different style after role cards have already been distributed. This applies to Rico, and BWT. I'm not going to go back and try to quote the comment because I'm pretty sure it was Day 0. Rico stated that he'd be more zany and BWT followed suit, almost immediately after Rico. I do not recall BWT's reasoning for claiming a more zany (zanier? zaniest? are those actual words? they don't sit right with me.) and would like to hear about this. Also, someone correct me if my memory of Day 0 events are failing me.

I believe a factor of the "zaniness" is the ongoing contest with the prize going to the person who uses the most Talking Heads in their posts. Zanier and zaniest sit fine with me, as the comparative and superlative forms of 'zany'.

Inconsequential banter about the zaniness of Talking Heads lyrics in posts.

MacDougall

- GTH reads him bad on Day 3, never mentioned him prior

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

Choutas wrote:

Rbzmncaeaei wrote:I guess those who haven't caught up might need some more context on that image. It consists of a game JJJ championed where myself, JJJ, Mac, and Golden stated gun-to-head reads on every single player with only "Good" and "Bad" as the available options, no "Neutral". As you can see, it's a little disconcerting that there was not one player that more than two of us thought was bad.

it pretty much says that one of you guys is scum and doesn't want to agree with other players that scum players look scummy. You actually look the best for giving an enormous amount of scum players. Mac looks the worst for giving only six and two if his are two of my strongest town reads(DrWilgy and MattF).

I also adore how you find sig a consensus townie. Yeah someone in the quartet is deffo scum.

Sig hasn't really done anything that I've noted as overtly bad. Convince me otherwise please instead of just laughing about the fact that others disagree with you.

Explain how having more town reads than scum reads is scummy. Never heard that one before.

Tell me again why DrWilgy and MattF are big town reads for you? Please read my post on MattF before you do though.

Townies, please stop using wifom like it's actually more than just guessing. It makes it hard to scum hunt.

Demands that Choutas expand on his town read of DrWilgy and Matt F. This is Mac's first mention of Doc in the game other than that GTH read, so it's noteworthy that he thinks this is such a significant point to address.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:linki: I recall one time getting lynched by town because scum Equus made a post that was a flow chart of probabilities that led to me being scum in the majority of cases. We lost the game because she got me lynched. If you are genuinely telling me that "colours and probabilities" are enough for you to say that DrWilgy is a strong town read and that's the towniest post in the game. I might as well just not bother posting actual cases and just make up wifom bullshit about people I have gut scum reads on.

Mac totally discredited DrWilgy's first voting chart from the LC lynch by repeatedly comparing it to a moment in RYM Mafia legend (the Equus Incident of RYM #35 in which she produced a big flow chart of possible endgame scenarios and convinced town to do her bidding as mafia). This isn't the first time Mac has seen a quantitative examination portrayed in a chart or graph in a mafia game, so it's probably significant that he saw fit to hate on DrWilgy's production so much. I think it is likely to mean one of three things:

1. Mac already knows DrWilgy is his team mate and he can thus validly draw the comparison to the Equus Incident and perhaps claim significant credibility later in the event of a DrWilgy lynch/flip

2. Mac feels threatened by Doc's work and pressed hard against it to lessen the danger it poses to his team coming from a genuine source (a town Doc).

3. Mac just sees an opportunity to give someone shit and gives them shit because that's what Mac does.

Here is a link to Mac drawing the comparison, and a visual on DrWilgy's original post.

I don't think it's #2. You can see in Doc's analysis that the three names he implicated as looking the "worst" were Golden, bea, and me. All three of those names are townies, and y'all can at least be sure of two of them. Mac has no reason to feel threatened by an analysis that points town in the wrong direction. #3 is possible enough, but it seems strategically pointless. Mac was pushing suspicion on Doc for much of the game, but it started at this point when Doc was just highly unlikely to be lynched -- especially when he received so much praise for producing this analysis in the first place.

So my thoughts do linger for a long while on #1. It's not hard to view this as preliminary distancing to set the table for bigger moves later -- and we'll see how that develops as I continue.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:I think we really have to lynch sorsha. I feel like it's the key to breaking the game open today. She either flips scum and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail, or flips town and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail. Trusting Golden again seems like a nice way to get another townie killed. We've got a scum dead inside the first four days in a large game. We can afford a tactical lynch. Sorsha is a good lynch candidate for up front scum play as well as being the best possible lynch from a tactical perspective. Short of someone saying "I am scum" my vote won't be changing today.

Sorsha's play being scum is well documented, you only have to look at her recent posts to get a sense of posting nervously as scum playing poorly with a lynch on them tend to do.

DrWilgy... Are you tunneling me because I said you were scum in that Jimmy's game? Oh my God, u suck brah.

Pretty weak sauce response by Mac to suspicion cast by Doc. Brah.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:So ummm... Mac, now that we know Sorsha was civ what is the play?

Probably lynch you tbh.

Snarky. Playful. Not at all likely to propel a DrWilgy lynch.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:DrWilgy, Sig... Speak.

Prods Doc and others to talk more on Day 5.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:DrWilgy, Sig... Speak.

Sup?

Thanks for the response MM. I'll note it down as soon as I'm home from work.

Just wanted to say hi.

lol

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:Did I mention that I need a replacement?

Look, this cannot happen. Replacements aren't coming.

We've already had to modkill rundontwalk and there may be others to follow. I beg that people do not voluntarily throw in the towel this game, regardless of alignment or RL circumstances, unless they absolutely feel they have to. In doing so, the balance of the game will not be upheld. I do not want to have to modkill more players if I don't have to.

I'm less busy than I was when the game started, irl. I know you're out of replacements

Are you doing that thing where you are just not defending yourself in the hope that town will view your apathy as a town read? Because I don't find that a very townie way of defending yourself.

linki: Does Wilgy just post graphs and stats in every game. I can think of three different effort posts he's made in this game alone but he's not done much with the content he's created on any of the three of them. Just drops it in the thread like a smoke bomb and pisses off.

Throws more shade at Doc for his graphs and charts.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:It should be rather obvious who I would target Wilgy...

Gives Wilgy a frank answer during Infodumpgate.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:I get the exact same willies from Wilgy. Probably because I have been victimised by this kind of bullshit before.

Again emphasizes his comparison to the Equus Incident.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Mac, how sure of this are you?

Floyd, Fuzz, or Matt, did epi miss a night kill?

I am very sure.

Mac gives a confident report to Wilgy implicating Epi as the SK.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:With the information that I believe you're trying to tell me with that, Wilgy, I don't see how that changes my conclusion. I don't have anything to work off of here, so rather than assume some hidden shenanigans I have to base my conclusions off of what I can see. You're not making me feel better by continually making vague statements that you can't or won't back up when that's a part of my suspicion against you. Until you can convince me otherwise, and I sincerely hope you do, my conclusion is that you're scum and my vote will stay on you.

Metalmarsh, I don't feel inclined to make a case that you're scum at this moment.

See, this guy gets it.

RadicalFuzz tell em all how town I am.

Mac makes this weird post at Fuzz in response to Fuzz casting suspicion on Doc.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Gonna GTH the whole mafia team without thinking about it a ton (can't at work):

Black Rock
Diiny
Choutas
motel room
Metalmarsh89
Russtifinko (I know this contradicts my prior thing, oh well)

Are you going to say Mac is bad next?

@Epi, I'm back on phone now and don't have time to quote pull. The reason I believe is because role blocks exist in this game. Psycho killer, can't submit a night action if they don't have one.

Mac, stating that you are SK on a night were there is no psycho kill, and him being a scummy scummertston, fufill all the conditions for him to either be baddie roleblocker, or in btsc with baddie roleblocker. Matt's statement of Mac is bad and Epi is SK help confirm my thoughts, and russ stating that you are most likely SK may place him in the btsc with Mac.

The stench of scum is strong here.

DrWilgy makes an assertion that I don't understand linking Russ to Mac in BTSC, and Mac just gives this brief accusatory response. This continues to be a very distancing-compatible interaction IMO.

- Scumlist on Day 6 includes Doc

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:Self pres voting wilgy

MacDougall wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Because he is obvscum. Bullzeye is scum. Fuzz is scum. Look to the throwaway votes imo.

You got me excited that you actually thought I was scum, but then you don't list me in your next post. I feel neglected. I also feel annoyed that you asked me to put in work on post analysis and then call the result of that post analysis a throwaway vote. Would you rather me ignore the conclusions I've come to?

You are correct, however, that the inverse is true for you. With so many players pushing your lynch that's a slight indication that you're not scum.

Well it is a throwaway vote in the sense that it was alone. I agree with your analysis of Wilgy though. I was just starting to just name people with few votes on them and then decided to look a bit closer. You town. He scum.

Mac tries to work up a DrWilgy counterwagon to his own -- or at least he provides the appearance that he's trying to do that (DrWilgy was never in real danger of being lynched on Day 6 -- he finished with only 1 vote on him).

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Self pres voting wilgy

Hey look a dismissive reaction. He must be scum.

It was true about Mac. Shall we believe him at face value here?

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

motel room wrote:Diiny

No Wilgy.

My favorite post in Mac's ISO if DrWilgy is mafia. Diiny was the odds-on counterwagon, and Mac "pushed" for Doc instead. This just looks completely bogus to me. Mac knew all along that Doc wasn't getting lynched, and with that in mind he had no reason to give a shit who got lynched in his place unless one of the following two things is true:

1. Diiny is mafia and Mac wanted to protect him.

2. DrWilgy is mafia and Mac wanted to create distance from him, maintaining the stance he'd espoused for much of the game.

I have my doubts about #1. If Mac wanted to specifically protect Diiny in this scenario, then he probably could have picked a more viable counterwagon to press than DrWilgy (it had no traction at all aside from RadicalFuzz). Moreover, we can project this move long-term in the event that it succeeds: we would suppose that Diiny is mafia and Doc is town: Mac successfully generates the Doc counterwagon to save himself at the cost of a townie -- and then everyone is even more suspicious of him than before. He gets lynched promptly, and that post right there is left sitting there waiting for everyone to pitchfork Diiny right after him. It's not just WIFOM, it's stupid.

#2 seems much more reasonable. DrWilgy wasn't getting lynched no matter how hard Mac pretended to push it. He had one supporter in this cause (Fuzz) while the Diiny and Mac wagons were all moving north of the 5-vote plateau. This reads to me like another attempt by Mac to play WIFOM, but it's more transparent than most of his other WIFOM. He wants Diiny to look bad here, but I think it's Doc that looks bad.

This is another potentially contentious point. I want to hear your thoughts everyone. Please don't leave me hanging.

TheFloyd73

Spoiler: show

TheFloyd73 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:Browsing over posts right now, I have a bit to do after I complete my second job today.

Mafia to do list:

• In-depth analysis of devin the omniscient
• In-depth analysis of Mac
• Bullzeye post review
• Elo post review
• Espers post review

If I missed anything or somebody has some questions please let me know.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!


I just lost my shit. I actually screamed when I read this.

Someone cool me down! Im seeing red!!

*fans Wilgy* Does anyone else need my services?

OT banter action.

Black Rock

Nothing.

~~~

Conclusion:



Break out the tinfoil, I think we have a new big time suspect! Some of this demands I reach deeper into the realm of theory than I normally do, but at this point it's clear someone has played well enough to demand that kind of investigation anyway. I think this looks bad.

Please give me your feedback everyone.

Diiny wrote:Did willy really go offline and leave that at that?

RadicalFuzz wrote:Wilgy if you think I'm scum why did you save me? You had an emphatic defense of me. Why?

Diiny wrote:Oh god, wilgy's vote for bullzeye.

Diiny wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Diiny wrote:Wilgy's online :o

Yes. Just reading though. What's up?

I should vote Bullzeye for now. Don't wanna miss vote. I trust Chou + I like being alive. #Chou2016

I think you'll find there's tons of questions for you

Diiny wrote:Wilgy's online :o

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I will try very hard to be here before you depart JJJ.

I don't demand a big post. I demand something.

Here's a start: what is your read on me right now, and why?