The Syndicate

i keep getting distracted at work but wanna say WOOO followed by YAY

thanks everyone, good game.

ack

blurgh

dies

Diiny wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
Diiny wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:"Recent"

https://embed.gyazo.com/26d89def7d34e07 ... fabaed.png
bad in gun to head isn't the same as a consistently voiced well reasoned read. I'd feel good if you could show me some of that in your PH. My Ctrl F skills aren't perfect
Lolwat? My opinion isn't the same as my opinion? I'm pretty sure that's what you just stated.
Calling someone bad in gth and pouncing on that later opportunistically whilst being otherwise very reserved in your reads and stances is very different to reaffirming a suspicion that has been organically, consistently and publically developed in my perspective, that is, someone looking for oppertunistic wagon hopping from scum.

linki rico:

Agrred, this was what I was trying to say earlier in an early-morning mind-fog sort of way.

Diiny wrote:Securing MM, then, since people got tired of the Wilgy ride. Much better lynch than Momo (memories...)

Motel, did you leave for self preservation reasons? Didn't catch the reason for your switch. Will check now though. IDK why I'm typing this

Nah it wasn't for self preservation reasons alone. If Wilgy was up for lynch I would be ok with it but doubting what it'd result with til the EOD especially with his recent posts, I'm feeling pretty ok about seeing an anti-town role come up for metalmarsh, lets see.

motel room wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Everyone not named Diiny since he already talked about it:

How do you feel MM responded to the pressure I put on him this phase? I need stances immediately.
He was defensive and standoffish. He eventually gave responses to the cases after trying to discredit the entire approach first but they were weird and the "rating" part was gimmicky which always stinks to me.

Also I've been on the other end of your certain-casing when I'm scum and Holy Shit taking you down a peg or two feels more important than a real defence, which is never how I feel when town. Which is what he's clearly felt here.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Everyone not named Diiny since he already talked about it:

How do you feel MM responded to the pressure I put on him this phase? I need stances immediately.

He was defensive and standoffish. He eventually gave responses to the cases after trying to discredit the entire approach first but they were weird and the "rating" part was gimmicky which always stinks to me.

DrWilgy wrote:Self pres vote on Motel Room

working on it JJJ

I'll switch to metalmarsh G L A D L Y if you follow your self pres vote?

In fact I might just do it anyway and spread the cheeks on these votes - metalmarsh

linki - just saw your post, ok

DrWilgy wrote:If you think I'm just parroting what Fuzz had to say, you can look at the GTH results from back when Roxy, BR, Splints, and Floyd were alive. I marked them all as bad, due to the need to pluck them before the situation was dangerous.

I don't understand this part. How did marking them bad mean "plucking" them? Also, that was ages ago Versus what just happened last day period.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:motel room

You suspect me?

Not Wilgy?

Cos this isn't you necessarily saving yourself, despite your cranked-up defensiveness you only have one vote atm.

Ricochet wrote:
motel room wrote:First up, "MacBaddie" is either a hamburger themed children's character who pushes kids off swings or some douche from Grey's Anatomy.

I'm not splitting this post, I hate that sorry. I'm gonna work backwards through this because its huge. And I think all I can really do in response is to try and explain what my mindset on each of these players were.

Bullzeye - probably started as a borrowed read at some point but definitely soldified over the days as his behaviour became cagey and defensive, and his participation and heart level dropped. I was kinda confident Choutas wasn't scum so voted Bullzeye over him, and when Bullzeye kept up his non-interest I grew in confidence.

[like an hour later lol]
Actually sorry, there's stuff all over the place. Can you distill it to a few key issues? I'm getting swamped at work and need to focus. I hate asking people to do more legwork so I can come back to this later but yeah.
MacBaddie is how I'm calling him until I finally see a civ play from him, in a future game.

Re: your last paragraph, I don't get this, in general (i.e. when I'm faced up with this scale-it-down rebuttal). My last read on you is basically two paragraphs, how much more do you want me to "distill" it? Two paragraphs, not, say, a point-by-point input that JJJ usually does. Make that four paragraphs, if you include my previous "motel vs a baddie or several" reads - ok, I may have gone overboard with my third read.

The read, in my texts, is literally the "it boils down to" part.

Ah ok, let me go back. I was pushed for time at work and it all looked like a bunch of stufffff.

Ricochet wrote:motel room

Motel - Black MacCon - Motel

Spoiler: show
Interactions with LC
-- finds LC's flip from bea to sig "pressured and gross", backpedalling
-- comments to FZ on finding LC suss, on his D1 mention of him, on Choutas voting for him...
-- suss's LC based on a comment to lynch seaside, votes him
-- doesn't find the lynch status bad, compared to Epig calling it ""cliquish"
-- defends against Sorsha calling him flip-flopping between LC and Choutas (calls them both suspicious)
-- votes back LC, not feeling b24 wagon, considering Llama
-- comments on tight EoD
-- (post-lynch) questions Choutas voting LC
-- (post-lynch) calls LC defenders dodgiest
-- (post-lynch) creates scenarios in which bea might be teammate or not
-- (post-lynch) questions Matt's read of Choutas being civvie
-- (post-lynch) D6 finds theory on LC setting up a planned bussing far-fetched
-- (post-lynch) rebuttal to Rico on switching between LC and Choutas
-- (post-lynch) rebuttals to Matt

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- votes MacBaddie for CEO
-- doesn't get seaside's suspicion of MacBaddie, questions him what Mac did on D0
-- in reply to Llama, reads Mac genuine
-- questions his switch from Sorsha D4, calls it bandwagon; finds his tactics further muddy
-- D5 finds Mac towny and his theory about Epi most likely
-- D6 still finds Mac town, despite buss theory
-- D6 discusses voting tactics with Mac: joining him on Epig lynch
-- doesn't get why JJJ has Mac higher than Wilgy on his to-be-lynched options
-- in reply to Choutas, would vote to save Mac
-- fends off Rico's thought that him defending Mac makes him look bad
-- doesn't see why he should vote Wilgy, at Mac's request
-- reiterates seeing townmac
-- confused about Strawhenge not voting in any way for Mac or Diiny
-- (post-lynch) rebuttals to Matt on pressuring Strawhenge

Interactions with Black Rock
-- D6 doesn't get why BR is lynch contender
-- suddenly considers BR wagon
-- "could do a black rock vote" and then does
-- reads her bad in D7 GTH

LC interactions with motel
-- accidentally includes motel in his suss'ing of players who talked about Flowers
-- fends off motel's suspicion at his comment on lynching seaside

MacBaddie interactions with motel
-- D2 questions why motel switched to Choutas
-- reads him good in D3 GTH
-- banter vote and reaction to him about switching D4 votes
-- makes an analysis of D5 devin voters, but doesn't bring up motel
-- D6 calls for reads on metal, for being remarkably subdued
-- puts motel room in his final D6 scumlist
-- asks motel to vote Wilgy instead of Diiny
-- appreciates motel's effort to save him, albeit finding them useless, once Russ added a 7th vote

Black Rock interactions with motel
-- only interested in a correction in my reads of him or Mac
-- inquired by him about Choutas, never gives a serious answer

Votes
D1 votes sig for his verbosity and possible slipping
D2 votes LC for suspicions, switches to Choutas for him to explain his LC vote, votes back LC
D3 votes Epig as possible LC teammate defender, keeps it there
D4 votes Sorsha for placeholding, never returns with more reasons
D5 votes espers, only relates to seaside's trio pick from D4
D6 votes on Diiny counterwagon
D7 pursues Russ for being the least brought up by Mac (?); susses seaside and Choutas, votes seaside

Read
So I imagine that I'd eventually have to churn between the LC bussers, unless the remaining mafia is really comprised of nothing but them (which sounds unlikely or just damn foolish); previously, I felt a few details in motel's ISO (such as timing and context of D2 vote) placed him slightly better than the others, but this last revision doesn't make him look good overall. Suspects LC's flip-flop D1, but votes for the same player as LC, partly suspecting sig for the same issues. I actually like him sussing Choutas on his D2 vote - and in fact I am becoming very interested in how a motel - choutas relation would read, upon one of these player's flip - but his own switches can still read like LC early placement and detachment on a left field candidate whilst the wagon was at a halt; I'll keep his comeback on LC still under debate: it can be, like he said, a good read on the LC wagon waning and wanting to stress his preference in that direction; it can be safe, prompt bussing, under a tin foil version. Mac townreading reads as perpetual as JJJ's; his counterwagon moves aren't too great, of course. On the other hand, Mac reads overall quite distant from ever interacting much with motel, up until, what do you know, motel's suddenly suss and scum on D6. Black Rock switcheroo from "what why suss BR" to "yeah let's BR" is just bananas. For some of his other votes I can't find proper reasoning and they look dreadful, given timing and complacency to never elaborate on them. Lynch candidate.
Something extra. Motel through the bussing LC lens

Spoiler: show
Also quick to tell that LC's case on bea comes off as too strong, but this is in reply to llama's questionnaire on whether bea reacted in a genuine way to LC's vote and case on her.
Starts picking on several things sig said afterwards. Quite insistent on it.
Invites, however, at one point sig to join him on a LC wagon. Ironically, neither ever do.
Calls out LC's flip on sig as "pressured and gross, backpedalling".
DAY ENDS. His vote remains on sig from early banter with him. Not only did he reacted strongly to LC's case and counter-case, along the way, but also invited to a LC wagon, yet nothing from this made him put the stamp on LC.
Incresingly suspicious of every move by LC. Votes him.
Switches to Choutas (for his unexplained vote on LC?). Also considers JJJ lynch.
Goes back to LC, picking him over b24.
DAY ENDS.

Well if LC clearly instructed his teammates to take a stance against him, to the point of bussing when things get totally serious, it's simply unnerving. Don't know what to make of MR. His LC sussing looks so on point, but his D1 flipping is, to put it in his words, "gross" and the vote switches during D2 feel a bit as if he was testing the waters for alternatives or for distancing, but then returned to LC, almost as if shit got serious and he was aware he previously sussed LC enough not to do a stupid move and get out of orbit.

Onwards
> First thought of D3 is that people who defended LC's meta are most suspicious: Sorsha and Epi. Goes with Epi.
> Still wants to hear from Choutas' LC vote.
> Sig is suddenly good.
> JJJ lynch being considered no more.
> Also brings an LC-bea link theory.
DAY ENDS. His vote stayed on Epi all along.
> D4 votes Sorsha for placeholder, oh oh!
> Talks other topics, including Mac potentially bandwagoning on Sorsha.
DAY ENDS. His vote remained on Sorsha.

It's 5am and I don't want to die from exhaustion, so I'll stop here and resume later. I've left enough for now, anyway. I should in theory do JJJ as well and might just do him in full, but you have my crazy gut read on him. I'll grant him this though, compared to what I've revisited above on the other "LC critics", he has been rather more inquisitive and going through all the questioning/analysing stages by comparison. Overall, it'd be a sheer craftsman work, unlike anything I've seen, if he truly bussed LC. Gonna mull on this further.
Motel - Floyd - Motel

Spoiler: show
Interactions with Floyd
-- D2 excuses Floyd as overwhelmed debutant
-- D6 only curious if Floyd got PMs to discuss RL; further banter/bait about Floyd saying he didn't receive PM's on that topic
-- asks Floyd to give thoughts on who should be lynched between Mac and Diiny
-- acknowledges baiting Floyd with the PM topic, but wary of having lynched only townies before with this tactic
-- D7 asks Matt why he's so certain about Floyd
-- defends against Matt's case on him; re never pursuing his bait on Floy further and other posts
-- reads Floyd good in D7 GTH
-- not confident about a Floyd lynch; continues to say he feels Floyd will flip town

Read
This being the same motel who townread/counterwagoned another confirmed mafia in MacBaddie, it makes me quite interested to find out if he didn't keep the same stance on Floyd as well, as a teamie. Him baiting Floyd, acknowledging Floyd's answer wasn't good, acknowledging that he's wary he'd catch a town with this tactic (like many times in the past), yet then reading Floyd town feels a bit like a jump in ideas. "I'm doubting myself that my bait always brings good results" doesn't really sound the same as "I'm townreading this player because of my doubts that my bait always brings good results"
Votes & third read
Spoiler: show
Vote record stands at one confirmed baddie (LC), three mislynches (Sorsha, seaside, sig), one vote on an ultimately confirmed civilian (sig) and three unconfirmed (Epignosis, Diiny, Russ). Interesting ratios, compared to others, I'll say.

Timing and position wise, very variable. Late return on LC, first shooter on Epig D3 (can it be that he wanted to avoid any of the following hot topics: Golden vs JJJ, Sorsha, Rico, Rico vs Golden vs Sorsha?). Not too early, not too late on Sorsha and espers. Late (and twisty, as interactions with JJJ show) on Diiny counterwagon. Rather eager to hop on the seaside wagon soon. Early voter again on Russ. Early-ish on sig.

Entourage-wise, he's in a lot of entourage. A freaking lot. Even on that Epig vote on D3 that looks wild (yeah, I remember his sussing Epig for defending LC, just saying how it looks in the frame of the whole D3 events) he has Russ besides him. I don't think recurrent common voters would create any genuine pings here, tbh.

So here's the deal, I'm currently at 1-1 in my "LC bussers" campaign and whilst catching Mac was sweet, sig hurt like hell and made my confidence in the angle drop a fair bit of amount. If I'm to insist on this path and one or two more candidates (motel, JJJ, Choutas even) would result in mislynch, it would basically mean driving the game into lylo. What if the rest of the teamies are actually more in the neutral camp of interaction; after all Mac, for all the antagonism, didn't vote to send LC to his. Black Rock and Floyd hardly reacted to much of anything about him. Then again, if we are to abandon the LC buss zone completely, what remains of the many LC voters remaining? Are they all civ? Did the rest of the mafia really go on completely different paths that Day?

Motel's currently appearing to have been part of a lot of mislynches, a lot of wagons that are still enigmatic and one baddie lynch. Curiously, the only tiny thing that I'm leaning genuine is exactly something motel said about his action to come back on LC on D2: seeing the other wagons (b24 and llama) take over LC and deciding he doens't like those and that he is go back to his. It puts me in doubt that a mafioso would punish his teammate when hope is on the horizon. But it's only a minor doubt.

Then again, how to interpret that regarding Mac's counterwagon D6? If he's really civvie, it means he got dragged up in that wagon by other players (erm which leaves Choutas and JJJ). And he flippy-floppied a lot on that wagon.

So first read of him under my "LC busser" angle made me feel wary of him - say, weakest among Mac and sig. Full interaction reads only made me feel worse. Gut right now tells me to pursue the prospect of voting for his lynch - despite the caution thought in the back in the head about how the LC bussing record stands right now.

What do others think of motel, at this point in this game? Or of what I'm reading on him?
Motel - Bullzeye
-- N4 disagrees with Bullzeye's idea that Devin wagon was a save attempt, questions his views or suspects based on this; later agrees with his judgement, but insert caveat of Devin needing to flip bad in order for any possible confirmation [to be noted, Mac comes in afterwards and mocks motel's input]
-- D7 reads Bullzeye bad in GTH
-- D9 has Bullzeye in colorless orange camp on rainbow [sic] list
-- D10 votes Bullzeye (2nd vote, pushes Bullzeye 2-3 against Chou) for "classic low scum effort"
-- quotes a Russ post in which he suss's him and Bullzeye "for posterity"
-- N10 questions MM prefering Choutas to Bullzeye
-- D11 finds it weird Bullzeye hasn't received votes yet
-- in reply to Diiny, calls Bullzeye top suspect, votes him
-- confused by JJJ's question on Bullzeye's posts being scrutinizable through a townie lens
-- eager to judge Russ based on Bullzeye flip
-- late phase suss on Fuzz's rationale for voting Bullzeye

Bullzeye - motel
-- N4 talk I already highlighted
-- otherwise, nada

Well what a surprise, motel doesn't impress me yet again. Where's the reasoning or background on suddenly reading Bullzeye bad on D7? Where's the reasoning or background for picking up the "classic low scum effort" charge on suss'ing Bullzeye. Where's the reasoning or background for calling Bullzeye top suspect? Granted, his D10 activity, questioning and voting could read as inspired, rather than being anything forced in it. For instance, why bring Bullzeye in D10 wagon contention, as a teamie, if the suspicions on him are still slow burning and Choutas is ahead in the lead? Why throw full shade on him, when the opportunity arises to ponder on the alternative (JJJ's point on applying a townie lens to his activity)?

Idk, C+ for effort and solid exposed material, as always, but purely judging by the votes and stances in the last two cycles, I'll admit it looks slightly better for him.

First up, "MacBaddie" is either a hamburger themed children's character who pushes kids off swings or some douche from Grey's Anatomy.

I'm not splitting this post, I hate that sorry. I'm gonna work backwards through this because its huge. And I think all I can really do in response is to try and explain what my mindset on each of these players were.

Bullzeye - probably started as a borrowed read at some point but definitely soldified over the days as his behaviour became cagey and defensive, and his participation and heart level dropped. I was kinda confident Choutas wasn't scum so voted Bullzeye over him, and when Bullzeye kept up his non-interest I grew in confidence.

[like an hour later lol]
Actually sorry, there's stuff all over the place. Can you distill it to a few key issues? I'm getting swamped at work and need to focus. I hate asking people to do more legwork so I can come back to this later but yeah.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Also, "Trust me guys, I'm the CEO" =/= "Trust me guys, I'm civilian".

Where did he do that?

Ricochet wrote:So motel is to be read townie for not caring about my case because he reads me town in my case intentions, despite thinking my case is bullsuit? Does he have that attitude in general? 'Cause at least knowing how much I bark at players hounding me when town, especially when their case is bullsuit, I can't reconcile this attitude with town. I'm not exactly tunneling, given that I'm taking in account his better looking recent record, but bad looking votes plus unreasoning are still reasonable faults.

I'm looking at your case now. Trying to figure out how to tackle it cos my response is pretty much, yeah well I did all that but as town. Your case is the least shitty btw. The hardest part for me to respond to is my unexplained mind changes but I guess I want to point out that I've been away for large gaps in the game and reads shift and sometimes I'll rely on trusted players, and also that I reckon if I were scum I'd put more effort into explaining my votes and mind changes to avoid getting called up on it later on like this, but thats just a whole bunch of WIFOM I know.

What about how I barked back at Matt, sig and Russ? Cos I'm getting shat on for that too on the other hand.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
motel room wrote:Forget Strawhenge. Do you think JJJ is making it up?
Making what up?

His case, his stance. Either case.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Bullcrap.

I just put up nineteen page cases for you as a mafioso and as a serial killer. I did exactly what I begged Strawhenge to do.
That has nothing to do with Strawhenge.

So yes, dropping the point at the end #legacyofStrawhenge or whatever is is worthless if you can't use anything he has to offer.

Imagine another player in this game skipping the majority of the case and going to the bottom line of your case to see your conclusions, and finding that line in there. Using him as a reason to support your case is irrelevant if you have no reason to believe him.

Forget Strawhenge. Do you think JJJ is making it up?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
motel room wrote:Rico's case against me is the only one I've probably "blown off" cos 1. I think he seems town so pushing back on a case I find shitty to see if he'll crack doesn't interest me and 2. it's mostly how I've made shitty votes and apart from the reasons I've given in my posts I don't have much to add. If I didnt give much of a reason it's because whoever I voted was an acceptable chance of being maybescum, sometimes based of others' reads after a weekend away from the game.
Let's follow this logic to it's inevitable end:

Rico suspects motel room. motel room declines to take it as seriously as he should because he town reads Rico and doesn't see a point in pushing his buttons. Rico sees motel blowing him off. Rico's perspective of motel room does not improve. motel room's chances of being lynched increase.

You think this is permissible?

Probably not ideal but I'm just telling you what I'm thinking. I'll find his case.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:3) His reactions to points raised against him have, the majority of the time (although to be fair, not all the time), been to dismiss, ridicule, or NO U his case makers, primarily Matt F, sig, and myself.
This is, as far as I can tell, a fair beef. motel room, if you're town then you're going to really need to stop blowing off accusations and treat them like they have the potential to get you lynched and cost your team the game.

Except that its not true - I responded to Matt F's issues with me and only when he completely fucking ignored my responses did I start ridiculing him. So did Epi, after me, when Matt was so confident with his out-there theories that it was driving everybody nuts. And it wasn't a "no u" because I felt that he was genuine.

Sig, I can't really remember right now, but I know I found it suspicious that after not mentioning me all game he jumped on board with Matt. Pretty sure Sig was a "no u" on me ffs.

And Russ has, up until recently, only had one fucking point on me that I explained and he ignored or wasn't good enough for him or whatever. Then I figured whatever, not changing his mind am I, and only now has he posted a case which, great, but there's so much stretching in there I want to see his face if\when I flip. This one may have started as a "no u" because Out Of The Blue he started hammering me for one thing and only one thing, but I've since said that his pursuit\frustration reads more genuine to me now.

Rico's case against me is the only one I've probably "blown off" cos 1. I think he seems town so pushing back on a case I find shitty to see if he'll crack doesn't interest me and 2. it's mostly how I've made shitty votes and apart from the reasons I've given in my posts I don't have much to add. If I didnt give much of a reason it's because whoever I voted was an acceptable chance of being maybescum, sometimes based of others' reads after a weekend away from the game.

None of these live on as NO U and most of them haven't been blown off. I've explained myself when questioned and pushed back when the attack feels fake.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Jay, explain why you trust Strawhenge and what role you think he could be that would give us reason to put stock in his claim.
That's the fun part. It doesn't even have to be about his role! I bet that's been driving you nuts, eh?

But you trusted him too. You had him blue in your rainbow. You said he was showing things you recognized in your "RYM research" that made you feel good. Why did you trust your biggest foe in the game?
If it's not about his role, then what is it?

I think I know what his role is, and if I'm correct, then there is nothing for him implicate me, especially concerning his statement that I am Love during Wartime or Psycho Killer.

I did trust that he was civilian, and I thought it was clear even what role he was (that role being Take Me to the River). That doesn't mean he was correct. See seaside.

we don't know seaside wasn't correct.

Diiny wrote:Do talk to me about wilgy though.

Things I don't like:
- the sense of him showing up only when needed, distanced
- his vote on Bullzeye being "for Choutas"
- Mac's push for Wilgy wagon back in the day

Things I do like:
- reading back through his posts some of his theories seem to immediately fall apart - i.e. Choutas and bcornett linked stuff then they die and he's wrong - which seems odd if he were the one pulling the trigger.

Diiny wrote:
motel room wrote:Well just get ready to be disappointed. I'm probably not changing your mind.
If you're town, it's your job to change his mind. Am I reading this too pessimistically if I'm getting 'I don't want to play anymore' vibes or are you just saying that a case of you won't change any of Russ's existing issues with you?

Nah I'm not giving up defending myself in general, just to him cos my responses fall on deaf ears. I'm also thinking he's less scummy than when he started his crusade so my pushing back was more to see if he would fall apart.

* RadFuzz lol

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:
motel room wrote:Fuzz, the posts I quoted were before and during you casting the vote. Like remember Long Con's eventual vote for Sig early on where he had to backpedal the Bea thing and find a more compelling reason to place his final vote? Reminds me of that. Too-heavy display of reasoning.
I wasn't around then and haven't read it. My vote was more complex than a simple "He said X, X is scum talk, lynch him" so that's why I had exposition about my vote. Would you have preferred me gloss over my reasoning?

MM as I've said all game I have done scummy things. Soft defense of Mac, illogical reasons for not voting Floyd, I'm aware of this. There is no defense to what I did, simply put. What could I possibly say that would make me look better with those moves?
Oh damn, my vote for Choutas yesterday looks a lot worse now.

Now you can't accuse me of this because I've already admitted it. :P

Why doesn't this reply have anything to do with the post you're replying to? The WIFOM is one thing but whatwhy, metalmarsh?

Yes your Choutas vote looks bad. Your RadFuxx vote is suss too.

I would also like to stacks-on Wilgy for now.

Well just get ready to be disappointed. I'm probably not changing your mind.

Russtifinko wrote:
motel room wrote:woken up specifically on my day off for this.
"woken" up, as opposed to "woke"? Who woke you?

what? Like, I think I know what you're suggesting but I want you type it out and think how dopey it sounds.

Russtifinko wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Marsh your last two final votes are just abysmal, why tho?
Because I'm terrible.
Or possibly because he's on a team with motel room....

Seriously, though, is no one at all interested in this? I feel like I've been playing pretty hard the past few days, posting detailed reads and what I felt was a really compelling, in-depth case with this, and I'm just not being engaged on it at all.

What can I do to make you care? Has the analysis just moved so far on that analyzing player behavior is out and I'm just not with the times? Am I presenting my stuff in a way that isn't interesting or convincing? Or is there just a lack of interest in what I say generally?

I'm trying to help but feel like I'm not getting anything done with my posts.

Will analyze Diiny now because I promised I would.

Linki: Oh, JJJ? Interested to hear your thoughts on MM.

So I'm on a team with metalmarsh but we both voted the complete opposite ways last two days? Why?

Your one complaint against me that you're driving into the ground is wrong I dont get why you're so fucking adamant against what I said, and if you're genuine (which I guess I'm thinking more and more that you might be cos your frustration seems legit) maybe consider more than just that point cos if you start building team theories around me that shit will not work because I'm just some town guy who said what crossed his mind regarding jjj at that point in time.

And good luck with your proposal.

RadicalFuzz wrote:
motel room wrote:Fuzz, the posts I quoted were before and during you casting the vote. Like remember Long Con's eventual vote for Sig early on where he had to backpedal the Bea thing and find a more compelling reason to place his final vote? Reminds me of that. Too-heavy display of reasoning.
I wasn't around then and haven't read it. My vote was more complex than a simple "He said X, X is scum talk, lynch him" so that's why I had exposition about my vote. Would you have preferred me gloss over my reasoning?

MM as I've said all game I have done scummy things. Soft defense of Mac, illogical reasons for not voting Floyd, I'm aware of this. There is no defense to what I did, simply put. What could I possibly say that would make me look better with those moves?

Eh don't worry, he flipped scum. I was concerned you were fluffing "sensible" reasoning to fall back on in case he flipped town.

I'm going back to bed.

Fuzz, the posts I quoted were before and during you casting the vote. Like remember Long Con's eventual vote for Sig early on where he had to backpedal the Bea thing and find a more compelling reason to place his final vote? Reminds me of that. Too-heavy display of reasoning.

RadicalFuzz wrote:MM can you reiterate your answer to my question, I don't understand the linki.

I don't know about Bullzeye's meta, but publicly giving up reads anything but SK. In the meta I'm used to it's usually a scum-oriented thing to do, but I'm not sure about here, particularly with the record-setting post count. I'd prefer Wilgy or MM because I've been following them for longer, but if Bullzeye isn't going to play then that ties our hands somewhat. It's the objectively worst choice as civilian, so for that alone I'd have to assume he's scum.

RadicalFuzz wrote:There's a technician here so it's possible my internet will cut at some point. I'll vote Bullseye to remove the tie.

Bullzeye

J3 in this case, Bullzeye choosing to stop playing does nothing bit hurt town by a large margin. If he is town he removes one townie from the game, which we can't afford at this point. If he's scum he skates by silently. Lynching him fixes both potential problems. I think him being town is unlikely due to the sheer strength of this action. If it was minor and there were counterweights, then there would be conflict present. But as it is, what is the alternative?

I know there has been chatter about these since but yes eww these read as trying really hard to rationalise the appearance of your vote Fuzz.

woken up specifically on my day off for this.

I would like to hear from the ever-present Wilgy.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:motel room, please have a look at this review of mafia content related to Russ and tell me what you think. It left me feeling better about him than I was before compiling it.

The feeling that I remember getting from mac's treatment of Russ was a certainty that he was right calling Russ scum but he never acted on it at any point. That was where I first started to suspect Russ, after mac's flip.

Reading through your post does make me feel a bit better about him though, yes, but I hope that's not me getting caught up in the post narrative. Mac throwing shit at Russ still reads a bit my way, but him defending himself from Russ reads genuine (i.e. non teammates).

If Russ is town he's got a lazy read on me which I don't like, and the way he swooped in and has clung to it since. That can read as omgussy or tunelling maybe, but it goes against the one bit of evidence I do have in this game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:motel room, who is your second biggest suspect after Bullzeye, and do you feel that player is a compatible scum team mate of Bullzeye?

Its Russ and yeah I can see them being compatible because of their apparent mutual distrust of each other that has never been pushed hard (its what I reckon I'd do at this point in the game - soft suspicion, dont pull the trigger unless you have to then BAM look how town you must be):

Bullzeye wrote:I voted Russti again because I haven't had much time to catch up and he's still one of my top suspects. If I'm still alive/the game is still going after this weekend I will hopefully be more active but until then I can't really play, unfortunately.

Russtifinko wrote:Linki: JJJ, thanks for linking to your questions. I couldn't find the other two in you history at first. As for who's low hanging fruit, I'd prefer to do my ISOs on Fuzz or Wilgy before responding. I think those two and Bullz are most likely to be lynched, and (again, pending ISOs), I think Bullz is most likely of the three to be bad.

Had to go back a bit through Bullzeye's posts to see when he last did anything other than defend. And I guess we'll see how hard Russ pushes for Bullzeye lynch or not now that his town scapegoat is off the table.

Russtifinko wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Ricochet wrote:it must be said, your townread of motel is the strongest I can recall since...well, your townread of Mac
I'm going to clarify because I think there's a problem of perception: motel room is not my strongest town read (and nor was Mac at any juncture). He is a town read, as was Mac, but I am less confident in calling him that than yourself for example. I think it appears to be a stronger read than it really is because it's at odds with what most other people seem to think -- just like my Mac read was.

I'd like to think I won't be completely wrong about a controversial town read twice in one game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Everybody: can you share your tinfoil reads?

If you're not sure what I mean by that, I mean pick the player who you're most concerned is mafia because he will be a very difficult lynch and/or is a consensus town read?

For me: Ricochet.
Underlines added to highlight my point. By this definition, this is absolutely motel room. You say he's a low-hanging fruit, and that's just plain wrong. He's being defended by the two most vocal players in thread, you and Rico, he's off the poll today, and MM's vote move yesterday can be seen as a save of motel. (The more i think about it, the more it strikes me this way.) He has 3 of 9 living players, and arguably the three most influential ones, standing up for him. What about all that makes him low-hanging fruit? The fact that I've suspected him? I'm not even in your guys' league.

I think motel room actually is the hardest player in the game to lynch right now bar none, and he also happens to be the one I am most convinced is mafia.

Rico thinks I'm scum too buddy, wtf. But like, at least he has more than one weak reason for it.

There's no way I'm the hardest player to lynch (aside from today, it being impossible). Are you worried you'll look fake if you back off me?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
motel room wrote:
Diiny wrote:Motel: top suspect; top townie
Top suspect is still Bullzeye or Russ. In fact I'm gonna pop a vote on Bullzeye right after I click submit. And I really doubt we're seeing a scum jjj, his hunger is second to none last few days. Ricochet is second top town.

By "town" I guess I mean not scum cos I can see anybody here being SK potentially. The quieter ones more likely.
If Bullzeye is mafia, how do you think his recent content would look as a townie?

What? Like how would he be posting differently as a townie? I dont know, but he's shut it down for now, gone dark or whatever you called your scum play earlier. Everybody towns differently but some scum traits just work.

Who's yours btw Diiny?

Diiny wrote:Motel: top suspect; top townie

Top suspect is still Bullzeye or Russ. In fact I'm gonna pop a vote on Bullzeye right after I click submit. And I really doubt we're seeing a scum jjj, his hunger is second to none last few days. Ricochet is second top town.

By "town" I guess I mean not scum cos I can see anybody here being SK potentially. The quieter ones more likely.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:What's your goal here Jay?
Why on earth would I broadcast that? You've seen how I play this game, make an educated guess. I've given you a fair request, could you please reference the post you mentioned?
I'm looking for it, and asking you meantime.

I know you're perfectly capable of painting someone bad by making them case themselves, and I'm checking to see if that is the case here. I have every right to ask you a question, so don't sound so aghast.

I also know you're probably probing for reactions. I'd rather it be this possibility.

Metalmarsh defence turned up to 11 on page 186.

DrWilgy wrote:A question in the meantime though. Chou stated the chance me being SK was high. What does everyone else think about my chances of being SK?

One-in-however-many-of-us-are-left-minus-me. Are people pushing for you being scum and you're asking about SK odds? (i haven't fully caught up but that "question in the meantime" feels like ducking and weaving)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
motel room wrote:I live.
You should do things.

Im reading. I had a fierce drinking weekend and am hungover at work but praise Phar Lap tomorrow is a public holiday.

Weird that there's no votes on Bullzeye today.

I live.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Choutas

Between Bullzeye and Choutas, I'd rather lynch Choutas.

Now that we're on the other side, why did you prefer him to Bullzeye? I went a bit back through your posts and couldnt really see.

Bullzeye didn't vote.

Strawhenge's fixation on Metalmarsh and Choutas seems weaker with Choutas being town.

Hmm no last min shenanigans.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Choutas wrote:Well it's later than that over here and no it's not 04:00 in England it's 02:47

OK Russ so you're the rogue huh? You're either one I bet my remaining hand you're either the other scum or the rogue. If you consider I lost my wanking hand when we lynched sig me betting my remaining hand shows how sure I am about you.
If they're mafia partners, do you think Russtifinko would have gotten the time correct?

If they're mafia partners how come he doesnt know what colour t-shirt he's wearing right now?

Also if all three of us look bad to you Russ, why did you ask Choutas to convince you Bullzeye was a better option than me?

Russtifinko wrote:
motel room wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:convince me why he's a better case than motel.

motel room
What's your case on me again there pal? That I was ok with a lynch of jjj but that I said he was probably town?

Now that you think its obvious that jjj is town and the suspicion on him has passed for now, have I tried to have him lynched or done anything to suggest that what I said back then was just exactly what I was thinking? Explain it from a scum angle please.
Yeah, easy way to push for a JJJ lynch without seeming to do so. He's clearly a major threat to the baddies, and he was close enough to dying that a comment like yours could easily have swung it if anyone had agreed with you. And then when it blew over it was easy for you to back off. Not sure what's hard to see about this.

Its really fucking hard to see it from a scum angle because it was said by a townie. If this is all you have (and your vote stays on me now despite just below saying me, Choutas and Bullzeye, more likely lynches at this point, all look bad) then you're full of shit.

Russtifinko wrote:Choutas, I'm not buying your defense at all. You're giving up, but throwing out names to see what sticks. Your case on me is I'm Bullz's teammate because I forgot to place my vote after declaring it. If you honestly think I'm bad and want to do something worthwhile with your time, build a case on me to convince people. You're not doing that, and it makes me feel better about where the poll is. You, Bullz, and motel all look terrible to me right now.

I'm off to bed.

Linki: haha Choutas, you are either the world's worst or best predictor of votes, I'm not sure which. Bullzeye is from England, so it's 4am where he is. You're right that he's unlikely to vote you right now, he probably forgot to place it.

Highlighted for posterity.

Choutas wrote:MR Bullz is one scum, the remaining one scum is parked in your lot. It's Russ or Rico. Go after them hard tomorrow k?

Your sensei will become one with the cosmos.

oh man flashes of day 6

But playing along, I think from them it'd be Russ. His case on me is hot nonsense but he's clinging to it like he has nothing else. I think its because he has nothing else.

* to not suggest

You know what I mean.

Russtifinko wrote:convince me why he's a better case than motel.

motel room

What's your case on me again there pal? That I was ok with a lynch of jjj but that I said he was probably town?

Now that you think its obvious that jjj is town and the suspicion on him has passed for now, have I tried to have him lynched or done anything to suggest that what I said back then was just exactly what I was thinking? Explain it from a scum angle please.

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