The Syndicate

Also @Esooa, do you have parity or not? Why's your vote on me if it doesn't count?

And @Michelle, I could've claimed 'shenanigans' when you red-checked me. There's been enough redirecting and bus-driving and all manner of wackadoo mech bullpiss in this game, I could've started spouting off anything to save my hyde.

But I didn't. I did the risky thing and told you the truth with an inadvisably late miller claim. I am being 100% honest in that millers were rare if not non-existent on RYM, and I had no experience with them before this.

And @Hally, maybe I'm old-fashioned but there was never a time when no-chops were ever a good idea. Maybe that's something that was discovered since the last time I played, but how I see it, we're just handing scum an NK if we sleep.

And if I'm right, and Odd is scum, he'd probably kill you (Hally), because you think he's a better choption than I am, and Michelle's the opposite. So if he's scum, and we sleep, I'll just get chopped the following day.

Sleeping D9 is only going to needlessly prolong the game.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:45 pm

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:39 pm Seen any typewriters lately?

i got one a couple of nights ago iirc and used it to post the mashed potatoes pasta (brilliant, i know)

dunno who he targeted since

SPF the night she was killed, Michelle last night when we were swapped.

Also, solid rebuttal, Odd. Care to maybe address any of the things I listed about you? Or are 'red check' and 'not enough typewriters' your only beefs with me?

Aside from everything else I've pointed out about Oddmerta, here's a list of things I don't like:

• I don't like that he never tried to stop a night kill by meat-shielding with Esooa. If I were a busdriver, I'd be doing that left and right. It's insane to me that a busdriver exists in a game with a tree stump, and more people aren't still alive.

• I don't like how Odd now seems to take the stance that I should die because of my red check, when directly after my red check, he very pointedly wanted to chop SPF instead.

• I don't like all the limp reasoning he's given for a lot of his things, like in the above link: wanting to chop SPF because 'she has a wolf role and does wolf things'.

• It's the first item in my ISO, but it really sticks in my craw that Odd threw light bussing at JPIC on D1, almost never mentioned him again until D6, and only started coming after JPIC once the wagon was rolling

• And most recently, I don't like that the KC Mafia had a redirector (fingersplints) and a godfather (Marmot), but Bo and JPIC were neither of those things. I think a busdriving godfather makes a whole lot of sense.

Last time I voted with my gut, I voted JPIC. As much as I think it's possible for Hally or Michelle to be a really talented deepwolf, my gut says Oddmerta.

So [VOTE: Oddmerta] aubergine.

I don't want to sleep and let him get another kill.

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:49 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:27 pm

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:16 pm I swapped Strawhenge and Michelle

I brought this up yesterday and literally no one responded.

Why on Earth haven't you swapped a person you wanted to keep alive with Esooa? Like, ever? She claimed tree stump so long ago. Seeing as how she's unchoppable, there is such a good chance that she's un-NK-able too, and you could have functionally been a doctor.

Because I want you to die red check, I can't do that by swapping Esooa

Does busdriving work like that? If I were scum and wanted to shoot Michelle, and you swapped me and Michelle, would my own bullet hit me?

Anyway, I have to get duck back out again. I might get back on in a few hours, but I might not.

I'm, like, angry? For some reason? Like, I'm just pissed that this game still doesn't make sense. I'm heated.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:27 pm oh i forgot esooa doesn’t count

so then it’s essentially F4 and we should sleep, no?

I swear this is the last time I'll do this, but what's all this 'F4' 'F3' stuff, and do you mean 'sleep' literally or is that more mafia lingo?

Right now, it's either Hally or Michelle is a deepwolf, or it's Oddmerta. I'm thinking it's the latter.

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:16 pm I swapped Strawhenge and Michelle

I brought this up yesterday and literally no one responded.

Why on Earth haven't you swapped a person you wanted to keep alive with Esooa? Like, ever? She claimed tree stump so long ago. Seeing as how she's unchoppable, there is such a good chance that she's un-NK-able too, and you could have functionally been a doctor.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:12 pm i think we basically have to lunch straw today?

not because i particularly want to but he seems like the only sensible option

Aren't we at KILO right now, though? If Esooa doesn't count for parity? This isn't the time to chop someone you're not certain is scum.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:13 pm it’s truly baffling to me that michelle and i are still alive

surely wolves could have found a way to kill us by now

Yeah. Weird isn't it.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:48 pm(snip)
why did you want to know exactly how NAnook's vest is working? This is super wolfy imo

I was asking from a place of not entirely trusting the claim when superkills have been a thing. I had a momentary suspicion that Nanook was scum and was coming up with a mechanical excuse for why a town vig was still alive.

I completely understand why my asking questions about it looks wolfy, though.

Aw man, I'm really not gonna have a whole lot of time today, I'm sorry. If I survive to D9, I'll put in some work then.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:25 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:25 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:22 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:16 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:13 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:11 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:07 pm
you already know why

I don’t. Or I’m forgetting. But yeah, if someone else who has the energy for it can answer me, that’d be awesome.

Are you familiar with the Mason role

Yeah, I know she was masons with Mac, but is that what clears her? I never really had Hally towncored based on her role, but on her scumhunting. Are masons always t/t?

A wolf mason would just be cruel

I just read the mafiascum wiki on Masons and it says in normal games they’re always 100% confirmed town. [eyes the words ‘normal games’ and gets a migraine]

I’m not sussing Hally right now, just to be clear. Even after my second-strongest town read turned out to be scum, Hally is still my strongest read even without the mason role. I’m just trying to figure something out, without the brain power to do it.

why ia Hally your strongest town read ?

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:09 pm @Michelle, I'm gathering from your post about Odd that you no longer trust your previous green check on him? Are you going to check him again tonight?

No.
Do you think is useful to recheck Odd?

Re: rechecking Odd, I literally don't know. He's my strongest ping on my scumdar right now, but looking at the game right now suggests a high possibility of a deepwolf. It might be more worth checking someone you haven't checked.

Re: Hally, mostly for the same reason I've always townread Hally: genuine scumhunting, general tone, and now her role as mason, since I've read up on it more. For what it's worth, Hally and you (Michelle) are pretty much tied for my strongest townreads.

KZA wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:42 pm Well if Odd is town then the mafia has to play around his bus drives so that could help us out a lot

I've been thinking about his busdriving the past couple days. It's probably my biggest eyebrow-perk when it comes to Odd. Hear me out here.

Esooa has claimed tree stump for a long time. On D7 it was confirmed she's unchoppable. It's not an unreasonable assumption that she's un-NK-able too, though, in this game, it's possible that she's not. Who knows. My point is that even Townmerta might be compelled to take the chance of swapping someone he wants to protect with a claimed tree stump so that nobody dies. This potential ability is even discussed on MafiaScum's Bus Driver wiki page, and I think Odd even brought it up himself in this game.

So my question is, why hasn't Esooa been involved in a bus-drive? The bus-drive on N7 was Michelle and me, presumably because Odd wanted to keep MIchelle alive. Red peek and miller claim aside, why risk getting a miller killed when you could have even the smallest chance of preventing an NK entirely by bus-driving a tree stump?

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:49 amCan someone check Bo:s Iso?

1029 posts? ​:faint:

I don't really have an abundance of time to play today, but I can do at least his ISO from the past couple day phases. If someone wants to tackle previous days, that'd rule.

Towniest to scummiest:
Hally
Michelle
Esooa
KZA
Odd

I know there are good points for Odd not being scum, but none of them rule out the possibility completely for me. I know how gambity scum can get.

Also, little peek behind the Strawhenge curtain: late-game, I tend to get increasingly paranoid and tinfoily—especially in situations like this where everyone alive has very solid reasons why they're not scum. Just a heads-up: I might say some dumb-crazy shit.

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:25 pm Might still eat that sandwich despite Bo flipping scum

Don’t do anything rash.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:25 pmlife is cruel

I’m gonna fistbump my screen and you fistbump your screen too and it’ll be like we fistbumped actually.

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:22 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:16 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:13 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:11 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:07 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:06 pm Why is checking you dumb?

you already know why

I don’t. Or I’m forgetting. But yeah, if someone else who has the energy for it can answer me, that’d be awesome.

Are you familiar with the Mason role

Yeah, I know she was masons with Mac, but is that what clears her? I never really had Hally towncored based on her role, but on her scumhunting. Are masons always t/t?

A wolf mason would just be cruel

I just read the mafiascum wiki on Masons and it says in normal games they’re always 100% confirmed town. [eyes the words ‘normal games’ and gets a migraine]

I’m not sussing Hally right now, just to be clear. Even after my second-strongest town read turned out to be scum, Hally is still my strongest read even without the mason role. I’m just trying to figure something out, without the brain power to do it.

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:13 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:11 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:07 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:06 pm Why is checking you dumb?

you already know why

I don’t. Or I’m forgetting. But yeah, if someone else who has the energy for it can answer me, that’d be awesome.

Are you familiar with the Mason role

Yeah, I know she was masons with Mac, but is that what clears her? I never really had Hally towncored based on her role, but on her scumhunting. Are masons always t/t?

What do you mean, we ‘have the numbers’? What numbers?

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:07 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:06 pm Why is checking you dumb?

you already know why

I don’t. Or I’m forgetting. But yeah, if someone else who has the energy for it can answer me, that’d be awesome.

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:06 pm If I have to play against mafia that can survive a chop I'll just laugh

I would be legit send-angry-PM-to-nova pissed off of this is the case. I would fly Mac to wherever nova lives so he could kick down nova’s door and just berate nova to sleep every night for a year.

This is me honestly forgetting and not having the energy to crawl 200+ posts on my phone, but what ‘cleared’ you (Hally), again?

Why is checking you dumb?

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:04 pm we know we couldn’t chop esooa once. that doesn’t mean she’s permanently unchoppable

but like, ok. who do you check then? kza?

Yeah, or you.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:46 pm i think michelle/kza should target esooa to make sure she’s clear and then we maybe should lunch like straw assuming michelle gets a green on esooa

but i also don’t really care

That wouldn’t do any good, because we know we can’t chop Esooa. They need to check someone who hasn’t been checked.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:47 pm would be funny if kza has just been bussing his whole team

I’ve seen scum do crazier things than this.

At this point, everyone alive has actively either used their ability to help catch a scum, or went hard at a player who flipped scum when they really didn’t have to. I think it’s safe to assume the remaining scum directly got their teammates killed.

@Michelle, I'm gathering from your post about Odd that you no longer trust your previous green check on him? Are you going to check him again tonight?

My emotional response is as follows:

1. Elation at nailing a scum.

2. Disappointment that my scumdar remains broken as fuck, and that I townread Bo pretty hard up until Michelle's red check.

3. Utter despair that we still have more scum to find?!

I know that just the sheer length of this game is demotivating, Hally. I myself have barely been able to muster up the energy to log in over the past week or so. But you don't suck, and we're close to winning. Don't push yourself too hard, but just know that you're of great value to this game!

(Unless you're scum, in which case, )

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:34 pm he could still be a wolf though obviously

i’m just saying you’re placing expectations on him that are kinda ridiculous when the reality is that we would lunch him regardless of anything he could say or do right now

I think either you're misinterpreting what I'm saying, or I might not be representing my thoughts correctly, because I don't think we're on the same page.

It's neither here nor there. He made the argument that he's town because he's just rolling over, and I countered that argument. Maybe that's just my playstyle to fight tooth-and-nail against bum red checks.

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:26 pm2. Theorizing about something that, as a villager, one can't possibly know is literally what the game of Mafia is.

fixed

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:12 pm how do you plan to do that if v!bo cannot possibly know why he showed up red? you’re asking him to theorize about something that as a villager he can’t know

1. The point of my post was to tell Bo that a towny who gets what they know to be a false red check would fight it. He asked, 'Why would scum just roll over and die?' so I countered it with, 'Why would town just roll over and die?' That's all.

2. Theorizing about something that, as a villager, once can't possibly know is literally what the game of Mafia is.

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:00 pm nothing in this game is cut and dry. that’s kind of a ludicrous statement imo

I'm saying it's cut and dry unless there's some hitherto unknown role. I'm telling Bo that if he truly is town, then we need to figure out what the fuck happened.

BoKnows wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:28 am o you guys expect me to just accept death like this if I was scum. I have over a 1000 posts and have poured hours into this game. You guys just really think im going to role over and die as scum when I've made it this far in

Actually, no. I would expect a chart- and graph-making, 1000+ posting townie to fight a bum red check a little harder. I get that all the effort you've put into the game must have taken a lot of energy, but if you are town, you're gonna have to expend some more energy to convince that Michelle got a bad check. Because from where I'm sitting, it looks pretty cut and dry.

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:08 am N7 I swapped Strawhenge with Michelle

Welp, unless someone else wants to come out with yet another unforeseen redirect or some other fuckery, that about cinches it.

[VOTE: BoKnows] aubergine

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:40 pmRegarding your Iso, i remember Alison said she asked and she had a mistake in her role, and that should be in the last pages of her Iso
I would search but is harder on phone

Alright. I was pretty sure I remembered reading that, but there are, heh, a lot of posts in this game, gosh.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:32 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:29 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:28 pm The message is real but again mafia can have a redirector

Or Odd busdrove. Hey @Oddmerta, who'd you target last night?

He will not tell anyway

Btw, in the previous night he switched me and Bo, that didn't change my peek?

Why wouldn't he tell? If he has info that could clarify what happened, and he's town, he'd tell.

And the way I interpret the busdriver role is that it only affects the actions targeted at the people he swaps. If he swapped you and Bo, I don't think that affects you targeting me. It would only affect anything that was aimed at you or Bo.

So, in this instance, if Odd busdrove Bo with someone else, then your red peek is on that other person.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:28 pm The message is real but again mafia can have a redirector

Or Odd busdrove. Hey @Oddmerta, who'd you target last night?

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:41 pm @Strawhenge is it correct that this your first mafia game in awhile?

In about 6 years, yeah.

@Oddmerta
Maybe the last ISO that Dwayne 'The Strawk' Johnhenge has left in him

I'm gonna go by Days on this one.

• Odd has a very strange dynamic with JPIC over D0-D2. On D0 he throws very superficial suspicions on JPIC, on D1 he busses him harder and votes for him, and then on D2, Odd doesn't mention JPIC once.

• Odd kicks D2 off by voting for Ted without explanation, almost immediately switching to Tony just because Hally said so, back to Ted, then back to Tony because Alison said so. This lack of conviction is a complete 180° from his approach to JPIC.

• His D3 was mostly unremarkable, other than the mixup with his and KZA's claims, as they were given to Alison. I believe this was explained as a mod error. I can't find a post confirming that, though.

• On D4 Odd votes for BoKnows and gives kind of a limp reason for it. After that he votes for me, sarcastically saying that it was not RNG-based. Almost comes right out and says he's picking his votes at random.

• His busdriving on N2 and N4 both involved a player who was killed that night. Sloonei, then Long Con.

• Odd didn't post much on D5, except to throw limp shade at JPIC, then quietly vote for JPIC, despite the fingersplints wagon. This is noteworthy, because JPIC had been the leading wagon until fingersplints all but outed herself. Keeping himself on JPIC's vote could have been a way to buy town points for a very likely D6 JPIC wagon.

• D6 he posted even less, and quietly voted JPIC. Easy wagon to bus a teammate on.

• D7 follows his theme of not explaining his votes. I have yet to come across why he ever suspected SPF, for instance.

TL;DR: Odd's treatment of JPIC doesn't make him look great. Specifically the first item in my list, and his subsequent voting patterns which suggest that he only really voted for JPIC when it would be convenient for him.

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:32 pm I haven't paid much attention to Odd because of Alison's word and him being the only other known trooper

Right, and Michelle's green check. Which, with the possibility of godfathers or redirectors—or, hell, even Odd's own busdriving—can't be seen as concrete.

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:31 pm

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:26 pm @KZA, what are your thoughts about Odd?

I think either him or BK have to be last Mafia by PoE. I'd like to know who he targeted lately.

Michelle's check will be interesting

I'm going through his ISO right now. There's always been something about Odd that I haven't been able to put my finger on. I think I fell into the trap of automatically trusting the trooper claim, and dismissed him from my POE for a while. Hopefully I'll get a better look at things in his ISO.

@KZA, what are your thoughts about Odd?

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:23 pm If BK comes back green I'm going to assume Michelle has been left alive because there's a godfather on the remaining team

Marmot was the KC Mafia godfather. Makes sense that the Gerhardts would have one.

Hally
BoKnows
Michelle
Esooa
Oddmerta
KZA

I look at this list of players and I start to get really scared. If there's a scum between Hally, BoKnows, and Michelle, we're fucked. They've been so obviously town this far that if either of them are revealed to be scum, I'm going to scream.

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:09 pm where did a 2nd kill come from now??

Simple solution would be that Nanook shot SPF.

The solution is that there's still some other KP role.

I'm thinking, balance-wise, that it's probably the former.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:57 pm If by chance I am alive tomorow i can't play Monday because i have to work all day
Please let the day at its normal lenght, it's good for town

I voted with the spirit of please god let this game end already, but this is a good point. People have lives they need to attend to, and longer days are better for town. I'll change my vote.

@Michelle, who among the living players have you checked already?

Hally - ?
SPF - ?
BK - TBD
Nanook - ?
Odd - green
Me - red (miller)
Esooa - ?
KZA - ?