The Syndicate

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:59 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:54 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:51 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:42 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:35 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:31 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:22 pm

We're very good friends and have multiple tells on each other; we started playing together in 2009 for Gods sake, in a forum where every game was a 30 player role madness game. That's the explanation. She had me as bad the first day in GOC. Not sure why this is so hard for you to accept.

But you do you.
Why haven't you two been voting together?

Why aren't you listening to her townread on me and voting with her?
Because we can read each other; we don’t have a mind meld. Just because I know she’s civ doesn’t mean I think she’s right all the time.
Question was not directed to you.

My question for you is why aren't you pleading with your top townread to vote me out if you really think I'm mafia?
Because she thinks what she thinks, and I am ok being yeeted. This has ceased to be fun for me, and although it is disrespectful to the host to say so, this has ceased to be fun for me.

Good luck civs!
Ugh its such an annoying cop out when you people this. I've been spending all damn phase trying to understand you and all I get is just trust me and ridicule and now you're giving up. It puts the entire onus on me and is not in the spirit of towning to do this.
You don't even begin to understand how frustrating it is when you act like you know more than anyone, are 100% wrong, refuse to even consider it, and then say things like that. "you people".

It isn't in the spirit of towning to refuse to even consider that something in front of your eyes can be so. Two people who know each other super well can read each other.

I am getting frustrated to the point of being a detriment to the game, and to the game this host wanted to have, and I believe that at that point, the correct course of action is to remove myself from the thread.

Sorry you had to waste your day on me.

I wrote people then went to change it to you and didn't delete people lol.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:58 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:57 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:55 pm The only reason I dont want to go into neon today is that it means neither of kate nor svs will have been solved and today we can afford to flip 1 but not the other. If we pick the wrong one. We will not have that luxury tomorrow if we flip a town and then we sit there not knowing what to do with kate / svs
So you're of the view that one is 100% pocketing the other?

I'm of the view that is wholly unlikely to be the case. Neither of them are so bad at mafia to never humour the likelihood to the complete detriment of town and endgame a loss off of it. They are both capable of seeing the other as mafia and have done.
I believe it is the most likely of the options yes but I know you havent felt that way. I have not been privy to witness their play that would break a mold in my mind that generally believes it's possible to fool someone who knows exactly what the other wants to hear

Mmm I guess.

I don't understand how SVS votes me all day with no re-evaluation after what I've presented today. She also hasn't even tried to formulate a persuasive case on it but Scotty did vote with her for a moment so if she is mafia and it's not with Kate it's with Scotty.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:55 pm The only reason I dont want to go into neon today is that it means neither of kate nor svs will have been solved and today we can afford to flip 1 but not the other. If we pick the wrong one. We will not have that luxury tomorrow if we flip a town and then we sit there not knowing what to do with kate / svs

So you're of the view that one is 100% pocketing the other?

I'm of the view that is wholly unlikely to be the case. Neither of them are so bad at mafia to never humour the likelihood to the complete detriment of town and endgame a loss off of it. They are both capable of seeing the other as mafia and have done.

@Porscha I vote where you vote.

I'm happy to vote wherever.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:51 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:42 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:35 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:31 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:20 pm You still lock townread SVS?

And vice versa.

And STILL won't explain it! Either of you.

And you STILL haven't answered my questions from yesterday.
We're very good friends and have multiple tells on each other; we started playing together in 2009 for Gods sake, in a forum where every game was a 30 player role madness game. That's the explanation. She had me as bad the first day in GOC. Not sure why this is so hard for you to accept.

But you do you.
Why haven't you two been voting together?

Why aren't you listening to her townread on me and voting with her?
Because we can read each other; we don’t have a mind meld. Just because I know she’s civ doesn’t mean I think she’s right all the time.
Question was not directed to you.

My question for you is why aren't you pleading with your top townread to vote me out if you really think I'm mafia?
Because she thinks what she thinks, and I am ok being yeeted. This has ceased to be fun for me, and although it is disrespectful to the host to say so, this has ceased to be fun for me.

Good luck civs!

Ugh its such an annoying cop out when you people this. I've been spending all damn phase trying to understand you and all I get is just trust me and ridicule and now you're giving up. It puts the entire onus on me and is not in the spirit of towning to do this.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:50 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:48 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:46 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:43 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:38 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:35 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:32 pm

We kill neon. But I reallllly don't think he will.
So you're assuming Porscha dies tonight in every world yeh?
Probably yes. Or me or you.
Why not SVS?

Why me when I'm your next wolfread if your exact team is correct?
Wasnt her exact team wilgy and neon
She said I'm most likely to die than Scotty but has me as next most likely wolf. It doesn't make sense.
If svs flips town my top 2 poe is kate or neon. Actually is there a reason they cant be a pair?

Neon fits with just about anyone.

Wilgy fits with pretty much only me fmpov cuz Wilgy/Neon should have tried to push me today. Likewise Neon.

I kinda wanna switch to Neon honestly.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:47 pm I think even if in some unlikely world where it is svs and kate w/w they couldnt have identical reads otherwise it's too obvious

Thats my point actually.

If they were t/t or t/w they should be more unified.

If SVS has me as lock wolf and her top townread isn't voting me to save her why is she not talking to her like Kate is doing to me.

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:46 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:43 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:38 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:35 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:32 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:29 pm Okay Kate I didn't see your replies to me were inside the quotes sorry. I thought you just completely ignored me.

We kill Wilgy what do we do if he flips town and the 3 of us are in f5?
We kill neon. But I reallllly don't think he will.
So you're assuming Porscha dies tonight in every world yeh?
Probably yes. Or me or you.
Why not SVS?

Why me when I'm your next wolfread if your exact team is correct?
Wasnt her exact team wilgy and neon

She said I'm most likely to die than Scotty but has me as next most likely wolf. It doesn't make sense.

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:38 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:35 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:32 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:29 pm Okay Kate I didn't see your replies to me were inside the quotes sorry. I thought you just completely ignored me.

We kill Wilgy what do we do if he flips town and the 3 of us are in f5?
We kill neon. But I reallllly don't think he will.
So you're assuming Porscha dies tonight in every world yeh?
Probably yes. Or me or you.

Why not SVS?

Why me when I'm your next wolfread if your exact team is correct?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:35 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:31 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:20 pm You still lock townread SVS?

And vice versa.

And STILL won't explain it! Either of you.

And you STILL haven't answered my questions from yesterday.
We're very good friends and have multiple tells on each other; we started playing together in 2009 for Gods sake, in a forum where every game was a 30 player role madness game. That's the explanation. She had me as bad the first day in GOC. Not sure why this is so hard for you to accept.

But you do you.
Why haven't you two been voting together?

Why aren't you listening to her townread on me and voting with her?
Because we can read each other; we don’t have a mind meld. Just because I know she’s civ doesn’t mean I think she’s right all the time.

Question was not directed to you.

My question for you is why aren't you pleading with your top townread to vote me out if you really think I'm mafia?

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:32 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:29 pm Okay Kate I didn't see your replies to me were inside the quotes sorry. I thought you just completely ignored me.

We kill Wilgy what do we do if he flips town and the 3 of us are in f5?
We kill neon. But I reallllly don't think he will.

So you're assuming Porscha dies tonight in every world yeh?

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:33 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:31 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:20 pm You still lock townread SVS?

And vice versa.

And STILL won't explain it! Either of you.

And you STILL haven't answered my questions from yesterday.
We're very good friends and have multiple tells on each other; we started playing together in 2009 for Gods sake, in a forum where every game was a 30 player role madness game. That's the explanation. She had me as bad the first day in GOC. Not sure why this is so hard for you to accept.

But you do you.
Why haven't you two been voting together?

Why aren't you listening to her townread on me and voting with her?
I don't think she should be voting you.

So why aren't you talking to her about her read and trying to get her to vote with you?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:20 pm You still lock townread SVS?

And vice versa.

And STILL won't explain it! Either of you.

And you STILL haven't answered my questions from yesterday.
We're very good friends and have multiple tells on each other; we started playing together in 2009 for Gods sake, in a forum where every game was a 30 player role madness game. That's the explanation. She had me as bad the first day in GOC. Not sure why this is so hard for you to accept.

But you do you.

Why haven't you two been voting together?

Why aren't you listening to her townread on me and voting with her?

Okay Kate I didn't see your replies to me were inside the quotes sorry. I thought you just completely ignored me.

We kill Wilgy what do we do if he flips town and the 3 of us are in f5?

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:20 pm You still lock townread SVS?

And vice versa.

And STILL won't explain it! Either of you.

And you STILL haven't answered my questions from yesterday.
We have been around it 50 times I don't know what else you want me to say. And I've answered all of your questions. Then, when I answered you yelled at me for disappearing for going to bed. I don't know how to please you, Mac.

This is literally a lie! A blatant bold faced lie.

I'm voting SVS cuz Porscha is.

Sorry Kate but I can't abide you simply refusing to do basic shit like explain your reads or answer questions.

You still lock townread SVS?

And vice versa.

And STILL won't explain it! Either of you.

And you STILL haven't answered my questions from yesterday.

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:07 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:59 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:58 pm How about we all vote wilgy
Who is his partner?
Probably neon, right? What do you think?

His partner is me or nobody I feel. I don't see how a Wilgy/Neon team leaves me alive just to not push me at all when Wilgy had me in his solve yesterday and my eod vote would give him the ammo to side with you two and easily get me over.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 5:03 pm Everyone go back to here.

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 0#p1039110

Where you will read when WWA, Nutella and I all mind melded over Kate/SVS w/w and their reaction to it. I feel it's a proclick.

Bonus points cuz Seanzie and Wilgy were also there and seemed to see what we were seeing too.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:27 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:23 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:20 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:19 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:15 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:12 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:01 pm SVS cannot tell me with a straight face she townreads that. Shes simply evaded even talking about Kate so far anyway
Dead straight face, she’s town. It’s just kinda icky that as soon as she stopped sheeping you, we’re the problem. I have to go watch succession right now, but yeah, I’ll go down kicking and screaming tomorrow cause I’m town.

Happy happy joy joy
There's no way both of you are town. 0%.
100%
I don't follow how you could have a lock town read on Kate here?
Because bad Kate doesn’t put herself out like this. I’ll make any bet you want that I’m right.

@Dennis i would like your opinion here, thanks
Okay. A few questions. Let's start with the basic.

In what non scummy way is she putting herself out?

Just also want to put it out there that SVS completely ignored this question at the time and took the time to ate at people instead.

Everyone go back to here.

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 0#p1039110

Where you will read when WWA, Nutella and I all mind melded over Kate/SVS w/w and their reaction to it. I feel it's a proclick.

Kate wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:58 pm How about we all vote wilgy

Who is his partner?

The kills are pretty easy fmpov to see as kills being made specifically to operate around me (except WWA obvs). Scotty viewing them the way he is makes me want to flip out at him but the confbias is coming off kind of legit and the way he's just like nah dog I'm rly town here to Wilgy is pretty fire. So I guess I'm gonna just hope he hasn't inversely pocketed me.

Scotty, you looked at nka and made a bigger point about Nutella and TSP sussing me than you did about the fact that TSP was literally sheeping my vote as his top town and Nutella died with me lock clear. Look at the period where Nutella and I mind melded onto the Kate/SVS suspicion together and I think you'll struggle to see me as mafia. I'll pull up a starting point for you.

Fwiw I'm fairly confident if I'm wrong about Kate/SVS w/w that Neon is actually mafia so my vote being here suits me fine. If I'm wrong about Kate/SVS w/w then Neon is the only player that makes sense to be mafia and one of them being mafia pocketing the other one and Neon being mafia makes sense.

Lily would be a Neon kill for instance. SVS/Neon would kill TSP etc. Neon has runs on the board when it comes to pocketing me and not just auto resolving me. Neon also has had a decided lack of aggressive reads they've pursued in this game.

Aight Porscha I've been wrong a lot in this game so you have my vote today.

What she said.

Aight Scotty you've arrived at the wrong conclusion so let's see if you're genuine.

I'm not with Wilgy, Kate or SVS for very level 1 reasons.

So is my partner the polarised Porscha or Neon who bussed Pyxxy while I tried to save Pyxxy?

Neon right?

Okay.

[VOTE: Neon] aubergine

I mean.

Okay I'll answer it.
Oh no I lost my post.
Anyone know how to retrieve a draft?
Oh I found it!
Oh my draft sucks I can't post it.
Vanishes.

Is pretty difficult to not take as a wolf claim.

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:08 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:26 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:20 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:17 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:13 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:10 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:07 pm

Well if that's your solve, you should be afraid because we are going to lose. I do think you're town, but I implore you to think outside the box. This team has been distancing and dancing around around each other like crazy. I just watched it happen in Meta and I've seen neon do it several times. Look at the baddie team in GOC, did crazy goofy shit to bus each other. I'm not asking you to side with my opinion but just that you keep an open mind and keep looking.

I SWEAR to you I am a vanilla civ.
And I am telling you in no uncertain terms there is no world where that is true where SVS is not mafia. None. If you are civ, stop shielding a wolf.
Why is there no world?

Ok. Let me ask you this. If wilgy is bad is an svs/wilgy/pyxxy team possible in your estimation?
Because if you were t/t you both wouldn't be alive. And certainly the three of us wouldn't be alive with TSP dead. If you two are town the wolves went into night with us 3 all townreading each other and chose to shoot TSP (whose top suspicion was you two mafia btw).
So just because again you think it's unlikely you deemed it impossible? You don't see people adjusting their wolf games? Nk choices can mean anything.

Tsp was not a huge presence in the game and I know for certain his "top suspicion " was wrong so I'm not putting much weight on that.
Unlikely is an understatement. You two have been thread masons since day 1 and are both competent players. If anything one of you should have died over Lily n1, then Nutella n2, and especially TSP n4. The only world in which mafia don't do that is if one of you is pocketing the other.

You need to convince me that a team of 2 as per the below chooses to leave us 3 alive heading into f7.

Porscha/Neon
Porscha/Wilgy
Neon/Wilgy
Scotty/Wilgy
Scotty/Porscha
Scotty/Neon

Firstly, which of these duos kills TSP over me?

One of the 3 I highlighted.

Why do they kill TSP over me and then not push me (which SVS is doing thus explaining why I'm still alive over TSP cuz she thinks she can get me chopped).

Again I don't think the kill was about you. I think they knew if they killed me it would make wilgy obvious wolf (goofy), and TSP having me as his number 1 sus, he was a good choice if they were in fact trying to set me up.

Which of these duos considers me a patsy/non threat so as to be left alive the whole game?
Which of these duos views you and SVS masoning a non factor to a degree where they kill Lily, Nutella and TSP instead of breaking you up?

There are lots of reasons why teams pick their NK. I dont think anyone had to think you are a pasty to keep you alive, shit I haven't lived past n2 in ages, yet here I am.

If you are town, please take my question seriously and don't hand wave it away appealing to me to implicitly trust you. Actually think about it.
I'm thinking so hard my goofy brain is getting frazzled. I'm expecting anyone to just trust my reads. but the baddies have been crazy in games lately. Bussing, distancing, even leading lynches against each other to deep wolf. Look back to GOC mafia game has evolved. Im not one bit suprised by Wilgy's stunt yesterday.

When i found the draft, only half was saved so i had to rewrite part. Im not certain I didn't repeat myself from another post either. sigh.

Okay post it up.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:58 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:57 pm Does Nyone know how to retrieve a draft?

Just give me the cliffnotes if you don't want to write it again.

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:57 pm Does Nyone know how to retrieve a draft?

I'm of course fulling willing to read your solves. So go ahead. I don't intend to just blunt force trauma this through. I want you to solve the game if you're town.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:27 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:09 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:28 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:26 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:21 pm If Wilgy is bad, can SVS be his partner? That's your question Kate?

If you are town, I think SVS is basically outed and her partner is most likely to be Scotty of the remaining options but without further due diligence I have no reason to eliminate the possibility that Wilgy is with SVS beyond the reason I'm townreading Wilgy independently.
Why cant you accept that we have multiple tells on each other? The thing that’s holding this game up is the inability to accept this. We’ve spent this whole game on this topic.
Because

You

Or

Kate

Would

Be

Dead

By

Now

In

All

World's

If

You

Were

Both

Correct

Town

Especially

When

I

Stopped

Pushing

You

Yesterday
Quoting this for posterity and vindication when this is over.
Quoting it twice cause it’s astonishing how much time, effort and tbh fun we’ve wasted on this bullshit.

I also don't think this is at all a real appraisal of the game. I have hardly pushed you two since the first time Nutella and I vocalised it.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:26 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:20 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:17 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:13 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:10 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:07 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:57 pm

Want it noted that...

a) I did due diligence on Dennis and found his play wanting in a big way and pushed him
b) SVS and Kate both had a very weird series of interactions with Dennis where they kept directly pinging him when Nutella and I started pushing them. As if to dog whistle him to come push us or shield them or something, but done in a way where it would come across like they were suspect of him. c) Literally 1 minute before EOD I came in and realised that Dennis was being quite towny, and tried to hammer Wilgy over him, but observed Wilgy literally UNVOTE Dennis, which simultaneously to me moving from Dennis to wilgy changed the VC from 4-3 Dennis lead to 3-2 Wilgy lead. So I quickly put my Dennis vote back because CLEARLY mafia Wilgy has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to taking that risk.

So on point c. I really don't see how Wilgy is ever mafia. Everything else just further confbiases my Kate/SVS solve I'm afraid.

I am never getting to Porscha if it's them. And Neon feels fine.

The only other possibility is the one in which Kate/SVS are pocketed town/wolf with Scotty.
Well if that's your solve, you should be afraid because we are going to lose. I do think you're town, but I implore you to think outside the box. This team has been distancing and dancing around around each other like crazy. I just watched it happen in Meta and I've seen neon do it several times. Look at the baddie team in GOC, did crazy goofy shit to bus each other. I'm not asking you to side with my opinion but just that you keep an open mind and keep looking.

I SWEAR to you I am a vanilla civ.
And I am telling you in no uncertain terms there is no world where that is true where SVS is not mafia. None. If you are civ, stop shielding a wolf.
Why is there no world?

Ok. Let me ask you this. If wilgy is bad is an svs/wilgy/pyxxy team possible in your estimation?
Because if you were t/t you both wouldn't be alive. And certainly the three of us wouldn't be alive with TSP dead. If you two are town the wolves went into night with us 3 all townreading each other and chose to shoot TSP (whose top suspicion was you two mafia btw).
So just because again you think it's unlikely you deemed it impossible? You don't see people adjusting their wolf games? Nk choices can mean anything.

Tsp was not a huge presence in the game and I know for certain his "top suspicion " was wrong so I'm not putting much weight on that.
Unlikely is an understatement. You two have been thread masons since day 1 and are both competent players. If anything one of you should have died over Lily n1, then Nutella n2, and especially TSP n4. The only world in which mafia don't do that is if one of you is pocketing the other.

You need to convince me that a team of 2 as per the below chooses to leave us 3 alive heading into f7.

Porscha/Neon
Porscha/Wilgy
Neon/Wilgy
Scotty/Wilgy
Scotty/Porscha
Scotty/Neon

Firstly, which of these duos kills TSP over me?

Why do they kill TSP over me and then not push me (which SVS is doing thus explaining why I'm still alive over TSP cuz she thinks she can get me chopped).

Which of these duos considers me a patsy/non threat so as to be left alive the whole game?

Which of these duos views you and SVS masoning a non factor to a degree where they kill Lily, Nutella and TSP instead of breaking you up?

If you are town, please take my question seriously and don't hand wave it away appealing to me to implicitly trust you. Actually think about it.

Draft me a coherent explanation for the above and I will absolutely hear you out.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:27 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:09 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:28 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:26 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:21 pm If Wilgy is bad, can SVS be his partner? That's your question Kate?

If you are town, I think SVS is basically outed and her partner is most likely to be Scotty of the remaining options but without further due diligence I have no reason to eliminate the possibility that Wilgy is with SVS beyond the reason I'm townreading Wilgy independently.
Why cant you accept that we have multiple tells on each other? The thing that’s holding this game up is the inability to accept this. We’ve spent this whole game on this topic.
Because

You

Or

Kate

Would

Be

Dead

By

Now

In

All

World's

If

You

Were

Both

Correct

Town

Especially

When

I

Stopped

Pushing

You

Yesterday
Quoting this for posterity and vindication when this is over.
Quoting it twice cause it’s astonishing how much time, effort and tbh fun we’ve wasted on this bullshit.

Neither of you have even tried to answer my fair questions. I'm being more than reasonable. So spare me the ate please.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:26 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:21 pm If Wilgy is bad, can SVS be his partner? That's your question Kate?

If you are town, I think SVS is basically outed and her partner is most likely to be Scotty of the remaining options but without further due diligence I have no reason to eliminate the possibility that Wilgy is with SVS beyond the reason I'm townreading Wilgy independently.
Why cant you accept that we have multiple tells on each other? The thing that’s holding this game up is the inability to accept this. We’ve spent this whole game on this topic.

Btw the bolded is outing wolf mindset. It demonstrates you know I'm town and believe my perspective.

Be Pyxxy, Wilgy and Seanzie...

Wilgy: Okay who we night killen
Seanzie: Nutella lock clears me
Pyxxy: Windward Away and Neon are hunting my ass down
Wilgy: Mac wants me dead and won't leave me alone
Seanzie: Kate and SVS have each other lock town that's not good
Pyxxy: Alright let's kill Nutella

Convince me this occurred and why.

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:21 pm If Wilgy is bad, can SVS be his partner? That's your question Kate?

If you are town, I think SVS is basically outed and her partner is most likely to be Scotty of the remaining options but without further due diligence I have no reason to eliminate the possibility that Wilgy is with SVS beyond the reason I'm townreading Wilgy independently.
Yes that is my hypothetical question. I don't believe she is wolf.

Is there a world where it's pyx/scotty/wilgy?

In a world where...

Seanzie outposted his wolf meta, faked ate multiple times, projected town to a degree never before seen and then subbed out instead of claiming his free win. And killed no slots that bothered him including Nutella who had him an IC.

and

Wilgy nearly suicides to save town Dennis for raisins.

If you can convince me of the above.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:26 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:21 pm If Wilgy is bad, can SVS be his partner? That's your question Kate?

If you are town, I think SVS is basically outed and her partner is most likely to be Scotty of the remaining options but without further due diligence I have no reason to eliminate the possibility that Wilgy is with SVS beyond the reason I'm townreading Wilgy independently.
Why cant you accept that we have multiple tells on each other? The thing that’s holding this game up is the inability to accept this. We’ve spent this whole game on this topic.

Because

You

Or

Kate

Would

Be

Dead

By

Now

In

All

World's

If

You

Were

Both

Correct

Town

Especially

When

I

Stopped

Pushing

You

Yesterday

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:20 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:17 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:13 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:10 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:07 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:57 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:40 pm

Neon, TSP, Mac.

So, one of these is my teammate who had 2x vote power in the world where you think I wasn't at risk of being yeeted? For your thinking to be true, that has to be absolutely correct.
Want it noted that...

a) I did due diligence on Dennis and found his play wanting in a big way and pushed him
b) SVS and Kate both had a very weird series of interactions with Dennis where they kept directly pinging him when Nutella and I started pushing them. As if to dog whistle him to come push us or shield them or something, but done in a way where it would come across like they were suspect of him. c) Literally 1 minute before EOD I came in and realised that Dennis was being quite towny, and tried to hammer Wilgy over him, but observed Wilgy literally UNVOTE Dennis, which simultaneously to me moving from Dennis to wilgy changed the VC from 4-3 Dennis lead to 3-2 Wilgy lead. So I quickly put my Dennis vote back because CLEARLY mafia Wilgy has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to taking that risk.

So on point c. I really don't see how Wilgy is ever mafia. Everything else just further confbiases my Kate/SVS solve I'm afraid.

I am never getting to Porscha if it's them. And Neon feels fine.

The only other possibility is the one in which Kate/SVS are pocketed town/wolf with Scotty.
Well if that's your solve, you should be afraid because we are going to lose. I do think you're town, but I implore you to think outside the box. This team has been distancing and dancing around around each other like crazy. I just watched it happen in Meta and I've seen neon do it several times. Look at the baddie team in GOC, did crazy goofy shit to bus each other. I'm not asking you to side with my opinion but just that you keep an open mind and keep looking.

I SWEAR to you I am a vanilla civ.
And I am telling you in no uncertain terms there is no world where that is true where SVS is not mafia. None. If you are civ, stop shielding a wolf.
Why is there no world?

Ok. Let me ask you this. If wilgy is bad is an svs/wilgy/pyxxy team possible in your estimation?
Because if you were t/t you both wouldn't be alive. And certainly the three of us wouldn't be alive with TSP dead. If you two are town the wolves went into night with us 3 all townreading each other and chose to shoot TSP (whose top suspicion was you two mafia btw).
So just because again you think it's unlikely you deemed it impossible? You don't see people adjusting their wolf games? Nk choices can mean anything.

Tsp was not a huge presence in the game and I know for certain his "top suspicion " was wrong so I'm not putting much weight on that.

Unlikely is an understatement. You two have been thread masons since day 1 and are both competent players. If anything one of you should have died over Lily n1, then Nutella n2, and especially TSP n4. The only world in which mafia don't do that is if one of you is pocketing the other.

You need to convince me that a team of 2 as per the below chooses to leave us 3 alive heading into f7.

Porscha/Neon
Porscha/Wilgy
Neon/Wilgy
Scotty/Wilgy
Scotty/Porscha
Scotty/Neon

Firstly, which of these duos kills TSP over me?

Why do they kill TSP over me and then not push me (which SVS is doing thus explaining why I'm still alive over TSP cuz she thinks she can get me chopped).

Which of these duos considers me a patsy/non threat so as to be left alive the whole game?

Which of these duos views you and SVS masoning a non factor to a degree where they kill Lily, Nutella and TSP instead of breaking you up?

If you are town, please take my question seriously and don't hand wave it away appealing to me to implicitly trust you. Actually think about it.

If Wilgy is bad, can SVS be his partner? That's your question Kate?

If you are town, I think SVS is basically outed and her partner is most likely to be Scotty of the remaining options but without further due diligence I have no reason to eliminate the possibility that Wilgy is with SVS beyond the reason I'm townreading Wilgy independently.

It was worse than rand. Because I voted Wilgy he actually ended up 3-2 briefly due to me switching my vote from Dennis to Wilgy. He nearly outright killed himself.

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:13 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:10 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:07 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:57 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:40 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:05 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:32 pm

So... We are implying that in the face of 'wacky fun power roles' there is also a vote manipulator in the game, or a mechanic that changes vote weight, that I didn't carry that vote weight because I wasn't on Dennis, and that we are actually at mylo due to your proposed world of there being a W with weight of 2 and somehow me as W vs 3 town next cycle?
Just worded it like it's a goofy idea doesn't mean it's a goofy idea. Who were the voters on Dennis yesterday? Was neon one of them ?
Neon, TSP, Mac.

So, one of these is my teammate who had 2x vote power in the world where you think I wasn't at risk of being yeeted? For your thinking to be true, that has to be absolutely correct.
Want it noted that...

a) I did due diligence on Dennis and found his play wanting in a big way and pushed him
b) SVS and Kate both had a very weird series of interactions with Dennis where they kept directly pinging him when Nutella and I started pushing them. As if to dog whistle him to come push us or shield them or something, but done in a way where it would come across like they were suspect of him. c) Literally 1 minute before EOD I came in and realised that Dennis was being quite towny, and tried to hammer Wilgy over him, but observed Wilgy literally UNVOTE Dennis, which simultaneously to me moving from Dennis to wilgy changed the VC from 4-3 Dennis lead to 3-2 Wilgy lead. So I quickly put my Dennis vote back because CLEARLY mafia Wilgy has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to taking that risk.

So on point c. I really don't see how Wilgy is ever mafia. Everything else just further confbiases my Kate/SVS solve I'm afraid.

I am never getting to Porscha if it's them. And Neon feels fine.

The only other possibility is the one in which Kate/SVS are pocketed town/wolf with Scotty.
Well if that's your solve, you should be afraid because we are going to lose. I do think you're town, but I implore you to think outside the box. This team has been distancing and dancing around around each other like crazy. I just watched it happen in Meta and I've seen neon do it several times. Look at the baddie team in GOC, did crazy goofy shit to bus each other. I'm not asking you to side with my opinion but just that you keep an open mind and keep looking.

I SWEAR to you I am a vanilla civ.
And I am telling you in no uncertain terms there is no world where that is true where SVS is not mafia. None. If you are civ, stop shielding a wolf.
Why is there no world?

Ok. Let me ask you this. If wilgy is bad is an svs/wilgy/pyxxy team possible in your estimation?

Because if you were t/t you both wouldn't be alive. And certainly the three of us wouldn't be alive with TSP dead. If you two are town the wolves went into night with us 3 all townreading each other and chose to shoot TSP (whose top suspicion was you two mafia btw).

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:07 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:57 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:40 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:05 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:32 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:28 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:25 pm

Or the votes were normal votes and Wilgy literally nearly killed himself at EOD for no reason.
Also possible. Also risky. But impossible? No.
So... We are implying that in the face of 'wacky fun power roles' there is also a vote manipulator in the game, or a mechanic that changes vote weight, that I didn't carry that vote weight because I wasn't on Dennis, and that we are actually at mylo due to your proposed world of there being a W with weight of 2 and somehow me as W vs 3 town next cycle?
Just worded it like it's a goofy idea doesn't mean it's a goofy idea. Who were the voters on Dennis yesterday? Was neon one of them ?
Neon, TSP, Mac.

So, one of these is my teammate who had 2x vote power in the world where you think I wasn't at risk of being yeeted? For your thinking to be true, that has to be absolutely correct.
Want it noted that...

a) I did due diligence on Dennis and found his play wanting in a big way and pushed him
b) SVS and Kate both had a very weird series of interactions with Dennis where they kept directly pinging him when Nutella and I started pushing them. As if to dog whistle him to come push us or shield them or something, but done in a way where it would come across like they were suspect of him. c) Literally 1 minute before EOD I came in and realised that Dennis was being quite towny, and tried to hammer Wilgy over him, but observed Wilgy literally UNVOTE Dennis, which simultaneously to me moving from Dennis to wilgy changed the VC from 4-3 Dennis lead to 3-2 Wilgy lead. So I quickly put my Dennis vote back because CLEARLY mafia Wilgy has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to taking that risk.

So on point c. I really don't see how Wilgy is ever mafia. Everything else just further confbiases my Kate/SVS solve I'm afraid.

I am never getting to Porscha if it's them. And Neon feels fine.

The only other possibility is the one in which Kate/SVS are pocketed town/wolf with Scotty.
Well if that's your solve, you should be afraid because we are going to lose. I do think you're town, but I implore you to think outside the box. This team has been distancing and dancing around around each other like crazy. I just watched it happen in Meta and I've seen neon do it several times. Look at the baddie team in GOC, did crazy goofy shit to bus each other. I'm not asking you to side with my opinion but just that you keep an open mind and keep looking.

I SWEAR to you I am a vanilla civ.

And I am telling you in no uncertain terms there is no world where that is true where SVS is not mafia. None. If you are civ, stop shielding a wolf.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:52 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:42 pm @Porscha since you're here.

Neon voted Pyxxy day 2 and day 3.

I want to just lose to them for it. Plus Pyxxy pushed Neon pretty badly.

Kate said Neon is a filthy busser. Are they? I didn't think they were in my experience.

@Neon are you a filthy busser?
I bus yes. I've acknowledged this multiple times this game I think. I bus only if it provides me something and is necessary. It's really up to you to decide if that's true here.

This bussing reputation is an annoying double edged sword because while it works and I can and have abused it by hard defending teammates in games and getting town read for it. It also means that like especially on MU where I've rolled wolf a ton lately even if I am playing well as town I will just get killed by misexe anyways because of it.

That reputation hasn't permeated here yet which is nice... but it appears it might be starting to lol

Why did you vote Pyxxy in the first place? Why did you vote Dennis yesterday?

What is your present solve?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:40 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:05 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:32 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:28 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:25 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:21 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:17 pm

I was just browsing Pyxxy's ISO and he pushed Neon relatively firmly. Don't want to go there.

As if the host is going to answer you. Read the eod post. It was 3/3 at eod.

Of course I'm not sure about Vote manipulation? Should I just not make the read because of an outlandish possibility?

Maybe Pyxxy's flip was janitored. We better not read their spew in case it's wrong.
Maybe unlikely but not outlandish.
Or the votes were normal votes and Wilgy literally nearly killed himself at EOD for no reason.
Also possible. Also risky. But impossible? No.
So... We are implying that in the face of 'wacky fun power roles' there is also a vote manipulator in the game, or a mechanic that changes vote weight, that I didn't carry that vote weight because I wasn't on Dennis, and that we are actually at mylo due to your proposed world of there being a W with weight of 2 and somehow me as W vs 3 town next cycle?
Just worded it like it's a goofy idea doesn't mean it's a goofy idea. Who were the voters on Dennis yesterday? Was neon one of them ?
Neon, TSP, Mac.

So, one of these is my teammate who had 2x vote power in the world where you think I wasn't at risk of being yeeted? For your thinking to be true, that has to be absolutely correct.

Want it noted that...

a) I did due diligence on Dennis and found his play wanting in a big way and pushed him
b) SVS and Kate both had a very weird series of interactions with Dennis where they kept directly pinging him when Nutella and I started pushing them. As if to dog whistle him to come push us or shield them or something, but done in a way where it would come across like they were suspect of him. c) Literally 1 minute before EOD I came in and realised that Dennis was being quite towny, and tried to hammer Wilgy over him, but observed Wilgy literally UNVOTE Dennis, which simultaneously to me moving from Dennis to wilgy changed the VC from 4-3 Dennis lead to 3-2 Wilgy lead. So I quickly put my Dennis vote back because CLEARLY mafia Wilgy has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to taking that risk.

So on point c. I really don't see how Wilgy is ever mafia. Everything else just further confbiases my Kate/SVS solve I'm afraid.

I am never getting to Porscha if it's them. And Neon feels fine.

The only other possibility is the one in which Kate/SVS are pocketed town/wolf with Scotty.

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:10 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:36 pm Well Nutella and Dennis. Two dead town. Conspired to deduce Kate had green checked Nutella due to a post in which Kate cryptically stated "I feel like we should be listening to Nutella. Does anyone else feel that way?"

Pyxxy reacted there like the possibility could have been there.
I never said they conspired. I got brought into this weird scenario bc nutella seemed very civ and genuine to me and I said, maybe let's trust nutella. Dennis took thelat to kean I was hinting that I was a goofy cop. Nutella agree and accepted the green check. As soon as I read this, I clarified that I had no goofy info, just revised my read on nutella.

I never said you did say that.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:42 pm
Spoiler: show
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:18 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:15 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:15 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:10 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:08 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:03 pm

You just really wanna kill me huh?

@MacDougall, I liked your assoc between Kate/SVS, but is it not more likely that one W and is just comfy to have their buddy around?
Possible, but as I've pointed out I'd say unlikely.

I am not sure I would have seen a town be pocketed to the extent they'd need to be. It would be mold breaking stuff.

If one is pocketed it's probably SVS not Kate though. Kate is the one pushing SVS as lock clear without required reeval and ignoring the possibility of SVS being mafia.
I like it.

I think at this point, you being the only one to observe as to why I'm town has me either deeply pocketed or correct on your alignment.

Kate not seeing that almost feels forced at this point.
Pocket denied.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine
yay!
How have you possibly not figured out I'm town yet. FR Kate, do I, as W, especially knowing how I play as W based on Meta that just ended, put myself up to yeet on the SLIGHT chance that I get to yeet someone that I find more suspicious than the lead wagon?

Spoiler: show
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:32 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:28 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:25 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:21 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:17 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 4:15 pm
Exactly to make you ask this question. Also are you sure there's no vote manip going on?

@tutuu was yesterday's lynch a tie?

Neon is a humongous busser. She nearly got her teammates lynched in one of the last games (silly Dennis and goofy fs).
I was just browsing Pyxxy's ISO and he pushed Neon relatively firmly. Don't want to go there.

As if the host is going to answer you. Read the eod post. It was 3/3 at eod.

Of course I'm not sure about Vote manipulation? Should I just not make the read because of an outlandish possibility?

Maybe Pyxxy's flip was janitored. We better not read their spew in case it's wrong.
Maybe unlikely but not outlandish.
Or the votes were normal votes and Wilgy literally nearly killed himself at EOD for no reason.
Also possible. Also risky. But impossible? No.
So... We are implying that in the face of 'wacky fun power roles' there is also a vote manipulator in the game, or a mechanic that changes vote weight, that I didn't carry that vote weight because I wasn't on Dennis, and that we are actually at mylo due to your proposed world of there being a W with weight of 2 and somehow me as W vs 3 town next cycle?

Like, @Kate, you can't just ignore these posts and go for the lhf silly posts I throw out there 80% of the time. You gotta at least chew on the difficult ones afew times.

Funny I literally just had the exact same experience.

But Kate is currently solving in a very narrow world because from her perspective SVS and Scotty are town for reasons I don't know. Something about God.

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