The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:30 pm Excellent game, everybody. Especially LC and BR. I think this was my first significant experience with one of their games and it lived up to the hype. I loved it.

And my teammates all kicked ass.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:04 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:35 am Who is on Mac’s team?
Everybody. One or two names only. No reasoning allowed. We all have generally good instincts here, who’s given you bad vibes?

Jimmy and juliets, with a side order of, idk, Tony?

sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:17 pm Jay's last minute through on is so bad

Dom sounds crazy and tunnely hes just redirdxtdd from mac to me.

Like yea totally my teammates all of I guess one made me come vack sinxe no civ ever would get pissed about being mislynchrd for no good reason again. Sure right whatever

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:17 pm @MacDougall I just did a command F through Jack's ISO looking for mentions of sabie. The first mention I found of her he is saying he can't read her until late game which could be a way to avoid talking about her but then he goes on to suspect her, mentioning her in several different posts. There is one post that gives me pause even though he was joking when he replied to her by saying "Be quiet and get under the bus". Funny but hmmm.

Is your thought that he was trying to distance from her or did you have something specific in mind with regard to their connection that I couldn't see in his ISO?

lots of linki

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:16 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:11 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:10 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:08 pm I took it as a rhetorical.

I pursue an answer. I think they both look to form; you don't. What is to form?

I am missing the earnest attempt to persuade others from nutella. I would expect more pomp.

Like I said, I've had bigger fish to fry. Sloonei hasn't been my top priority yet, and some of my suspicion of him is linked to your alignment (though not all of it). I haven't felt much pressing need to convince other people yet, though I did bring it up when Tony was discussing who could be your teammates, as that will become a necessary conversation soon.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:13 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:11 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:09 pm Watching nutella and mac fight about how much they suspect me is the culmination of my entire mafia life and it's absolutely delightful.

I do believe I suspect you more

Impossible!

Or maybe you actually just know that he's bad.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:10 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:08 pm I took it as a rhetorical.

I pursue an answer. I think they both look to form; you don't. What is to form?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:09 pm Watching nutella and mac fight about how much they suspect me is the culmination of my entire mafia life and it's absolutely delightful.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:08 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:06 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:03 pm All you guys complaining about two baddie teams, I would think you would rather eliminate the one team so you can play they way you are used to playing. If the theory is that Mac is on the Masters team becasue of the janitored kill, wouldn't you want to get rid of the Anti Monitor first? Since they are already two down?

Did you read Dizzy's last ghost post? They made the point that since the kill does get passed along, the ideal situation would be to identify the fourth member of anti monitor, keep them alive and blocked/neutralized, while we get the other team. Makes sense right?

The caveat being that the anti monitor's kills can't be protected, so if sig isn't that role this plan might not work. Also it looks like the other remaining role on that team has a switching power that could also potentially screw it up. Hmph.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:06 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:03 pm All you guys complaining about two baddie teams, I would think you would rather eliminate the one team so you can play they way you are used to playing. If the theory is that Mac is on the Masters team becasue of the janitored kill, wouldn't you want to get rid of the Anti Monitor first? Since they are already two down?

Did you read Dizzy's last ghost post? They made the point that since the kill does get passed along, the ideal situation would be to identify the fourth member of anti monitor, keep them alive and blocked/neutralized, while we get the other team. Makes sense right?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:05 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:04 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:02 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:00 pm Inb4 the masters team is sum bs like Jay/Nut/Sloo/Epi.

What do you suppose the two of them would be doing right now if they weren't mafia teammates?

Insightful point Jay

I believe it was a question.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:02 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:00 pm Inb4 the masters team is sum bs like Jay/Nut/Sloo/Epi.

What do you suppose the two of them would be doing right now if they weren't mafia teammates?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:01 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:00 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:00 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:58 pm Watch and behold as the Sloonei/nutella kerfuffle goes absolutely nowhere.

This isn’t a kerfuffle. I’d struggle to even call it a hoopla.

Skirmish?

A skirmish is worse than a kerfuffle, are you insane?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:00 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:58 pm Watch and behold as the Sloonei/nutella kerfuffle goes absolutely nowhere.

This isn’t a kerfuffle. I’d struggle to even call it a hoopla.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:52 pm I did a very quick scan of what Jack said about sabie and it made me shrug. He spoke ill of sabie with moderate frequency. Given that she wasn't lynched, there's no good way to assess what pressure he may have put on her in the context of some eventual lynch. I wouldn't call them incompatible; it doesn't scream at me either.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:45 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:36 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:34 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:33 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:31 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:30 pm Sig what's your Jack read?

If there are farts on your wagon who are they

Jack and Sprityo are the main contenders.

gimme a quick sentence on Jack

Jack has equity with Sabie and Radishes. Jack is the primary catalyst of this wagon formation. Jack doesn't care about the roof.

k. Fuck the word "equity" straight to hell, but re: sig sure. I didn't look at sabie. I'll look at sabie.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:40 pm I think you know I'm town here Mac. Pretending you don't is a bad look.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:39 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:34 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:32 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:23 pm Nutella talk to me about Sloonei and vice versa.

He's your teammate lol. He could be on the master team even if you're not.

See this is what I mean. You are comfortable slagging off Sloonei in a way only teammates are. You've been saying this stuff for ages and haven't bothered doing anything with it. You're just distancing.

Nah. I've just had bigger fish to fry. He's helping with the sig thing. I'll come for him once the AM team is neutralized as per Dizzy's plan.

You're doing the same thing sig did, trying to link one of your teammates to a civ.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:34 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:33 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:31 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:30 pm Sig what's your Jack read?

If there are farts on your wagon who are they

Jack and Sprityo are the main contenders.

gimme a quick sentence on Jack

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:32 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:23 pm Nutella talk to me about Sloonei and vice versa.

He's your teammate lol. He could be on the master team even if you're not.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:31 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:30 pm Sig what's your Jack read?

If there are farts on your wagon who are they

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:17 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:14 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:01 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:52 pm Jack is bad. Sig is town.

Talk to me about these reads.

The primary reasons for reading Sig as scum are by virtue of knowing I am scum, which I am not and through interactions with dead scum, which I agree look bad but I think Jack and a few others look bad by this measure too.

Jack is revelling in this dichotomy and has somehow skated by again. I think he's bad and fostering this false dichotomy. If Sig is not Jack's partner then he is not Mafia, and I don't think Jack would be playing this way if his partner was up for lynch.

Sig is right about how it's strange that people who have tunneled me are now voting him. It reminds me of another game I played where the Mafia kept the primary mislynch bait alive and kept knocking off other civilians. I think that lynching Sig is being led by the other scum faction.

I’ll grant you that Jack might look bad in relation to Radishes/sabie. I haven’t looked closely at him, but I have reason to be wary of him. I don’t know if I’d say he looks worse than sig, and even if he does we’d still have one more person on that team. Who else looks worse than sig?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:01 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:52 pm Jack is bad. Sig is town.

Talk to me about these reads.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:45 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:33 pm I guess that question (why Mac?) is for the thread if anybody else wants to share.

1) Mac has flipped his reads with zero progression
2) Sig accidentally claimed a failed nightkill on Mac, who would not have been protected by the town, pointing to Mac being the bulletproof wolf on the Master’s team.
3) Several players are defending Mac or pressing for alternative lynched to Mac. If Mac is a wolf, he has three teammates.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:55 pm I m really just aiming to lynch scum and survive this phase mainly survive since I need to live past like day 3 in a goc preferably to eod. But that's doubtful.

I don't have a solid mafia read of Jack. But like Jack over sig is good since I know I'm not mafia.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:45 pm And the reason to vote Sig over Mac is like...to show moral support for ghost Dizzy or because Mac is your teammate or whatever.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:40 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:38 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 am

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:13 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?

That's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.

Meh. I have read the evidence and I refuse to admit that I might be wrong.

This is a really strange take for anything other than a mafioso exactly teammates with Radishes and Sabie.

And Sig too? Congrats you caught us?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 am

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:13 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?

That's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.

Meh. I have read the evidence and I refuse to admit that I might be wrong.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:35 am sig & radishes (from page 3 of sig's ISO on)

Spoiler: show

sig wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:26 pm [VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

I'll potentially bite the bullet to stop a tie if it comes down to it, but like I've been saying he's my number one choice and just generally meh on Nutella/Jack.

I plan to read over Radish when I have time to form a more cohesive opinion. He does seem blendy/not super active and his Nanook connection troubles me.

sig continues to kick the can down the road on Radishes. He's yet to actually say anything substantive, which continues to look even worse in the light of baddie-gate. At least this post acknowledges some negativity around him.

Radishes is incidentally named in a Michelle ISO. Okay.

A comprehensive reads list on which Radishes is listed under "Mafia lean". I am squinting my eyeballs at this post, sig. They are squinted very hard, so much so that my eyes are almost fully closed. I can't even see what I'm typing anymore. I'm also going to note for posterity that sabie is listed as a "civ lean" for, like, no reason.

Another incidental Radish namedrop, this time with implicit shade at people who voted for him. In a multiball game, chances are that every significant wagon is gonna have scum on it, honestly.

Spoiler: show

sig wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:10 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:54 pm It's actually really funny that radishes is looking for scum in the Nutella wagon when he got just as many votes to be lynched

That struck me as odd also. I guess it removes the potential bias/OMGUS, but personally I'd look at my own wagon first especially it I was a civ.

This seems kinda like a more mafiaish thing so I'd like an explanation for why he started that way

On this historic occasion, sig acknowledges a point against Radishes in the Syndicate's 2019 Game of Champions. At least three other people had already expressed this opinion.

In one big post, sig ISOs a handful of people at once. This post produces four hits when I ctrl+f "Radish". All four hits occur in quoted posts from the ISOee's, zero from sig's own analysis. Just stating facts.

Spoiler: show

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:03 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:59 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:40 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:26 pmHoly shit.

Here’s what’s up:
Uhh
Nothing it’s been really slow the large post count disguises this fact

So absolutely nothing of work has occurred?

I'd read the jack/nutella stuff maybe even though we know results idk what page it started on but that's where alot of people weighted in.

People are pretty scattered with reads, radish was a top suspect so maybe read him over as well.

I'd also suggest reading N1 onward for sure.

Greets Dragomir (now nutella), and in doing so he frames the Radish suspicion in the past tense. Noted. Sig also is instructing another player to review the case against Radishes. Sig has personally avoided that case like the plague coronavirus.

In sig's Day 2 wall post (which remains commendable regardless of sig's alignment), he lists Radishes under the "MAYBE LYNCH" heading, saying that he "talked about him already" with an implication that he did so in an ISO post. I may simply be missing something here, but I don't see any such ISO. What does this mean? He gives a couple other tentative nods of support to the radishes case as well, but hedges it a bit. I'm not loving this.

And that'll bit it for Radishes. I'll do sabie tomorrow. Definite compatibility here.

@sig big question that you can address is where exactly you laid out your thoughts on Radishes, as you suggested in your Day 2 post. I don't see that anywhere and it makes your stated suspicion against him look like a puff of smoke.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:21 am Allow me.

Sig's first mention of Sabie. Replies to Dizzy to provide some neither here or there thoughts but has her in her civ meta at this point.

Spoiler: show

sig wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:26 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:22 pm Players who knows Sabie much better than I, please talk about Sabie.

I've got some experience with her, but not alot.

She generally starts slow and doesn't post much but doesn't post fluff when around. Right now she seems to be within her normal civ meta.

sig wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:45 pm Also a Pre-ISO (minus Michelle) breakdown of my thoughts.

Super duper Civ:
Sig

Civ Reads:
Epi: Playing within Civ meta, active.
SVS: Good tone and activity push. I like how she clarified her Radish Slip thing seemed very civvie.
tedxtr: This may change after I ISO him, but based off D0/early D1 liked him.


Civ Leans:
Sloonei
TH
sprityo
sabie12

Null:
juliets
G-Man
Dyslexicon
TonyStarkPrime
Dom

Need more posts:
Colins
Drag
Tranq


Mafia Lean:
nutella
MacDougall
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay
Master Radishes
speedchuck
Michelle


Mafia:
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Tried to minimize my null reads. My Jack/Nutella reads are based off their back and forth so I really didn't know where to stick them, but they're both pinging me right now.

First reads list has Sabie as a civ lean, which is inline with previous post, but I suppose counteracted by the fact that she was in fact, bad.

Spoiler: show

sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:52 pm Dizzy, Mac, SVS, and TH/Colins are one team
Gman, Sabie, Radish, and (???) on other

linki: Yea sure tunneling since there's just one team whatever.

Next mention is on day 2 and suddenly has Sabie on a team with Radish and G-Man. Fails to provide a fourth option for that team (because he's in it?). There was no explanation as to why Sabie was suddenly mafia to Sig.

sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:12 pm Sig


Dom
Epignosis
Jackofhearts2005







NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0
Sloonei
tedxtr
JaggedJimmyJay
juliets
TonyStarkPrime
Michelle



Dragomir
Tranq




Dyslexicon
ColinIsCool
Turnip Head
S~V~S
speedchuck



G-Man
MacDougall
sprityo
sabie12

Suddenly Sabie is the absolute red. Even more red than me. Still hasn't really explained his read at all. Interesting to note that he has sprityo and G-Man here too. If Sig is team radishes, then I doubt either of them are. It'd be some bullshit to throw 2/3 of your remaining partners into the deep red here.

sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:16 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:15 pm D1 Nanook is confirmed you dipstick

Anyways, sabie and Dom are likely radish partners. Possibly one between jay/SvS/sloonei as well cause syndicate likes to bus.

Why Dom?

The only other thing close to a Sabie discussion point. He replies to Nanook to ask how Nanook has rationalised Dom as a scum partner of Radishes. Fmpov it seems pretty clear, so I don't actually buy that he really wanted to know. More just wanted to steer Nanook down the wrong path. If Sig is in team radishes/sabie this is a good look for both Dom, and Nanook not being Radishes partner. Dom because this "Why Dom" would be genuine surprise, and perhaps opportunism. Eliminating Dom and Nanook as the final partner would be a good result because until now I had them pretty much locked there.

The worst thing going for sig being teammates with Sabie is that she was apparently deep red to him but he spent literally no time talking about her outside of readslists. Like not even a "I think Sabie might be with Radishes", just literally nothing. There was no explanation about how she went from civ read to scum read either. So explaining how you went from civ read to scum, and specifically what about her play caused this would be helpful @sig. I am aware you didn't have a chance to talk on day 2, but you did on night 1 and night 2. Obviously the implication is that you changed your read of her on day 2 when you were unable to speak much. I would have thought that one of your civ reads dropping to hard scum read would be something you'd enter the thread primed to talk about, but you instead have spent almost the entire content of your game attacking me instead.

Overall I'm a little torn because a lot of the other players that have radishes compatibility that aren't flipped (Dom, Nanook, G-Man, Sprityo) don't look very likely to be Sig partners. But as a Sabie partner he definitely profiles based on his content.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:24 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:37 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:02 am

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:55 am Sorry, S~V~S I am jumping in the shower and out the door to the gym. Quickly though, there were debates about Colin and Mac so I would look at them in ISO's if you can.

Thanks, Jules. I tend to have better comprehension reading thread exchanges than ISOs in general, I find I miss less nuance that way, but I will ISO them as well. Colin was a red read for me, but only as a default since I did not remember much of what he had said, and Mac was a red as well since he had not had anything to say after nutella flipped non-baddie, and his whole thing there reminded me of bad Mac (although I tend to baddie read him in general, so my opinion is not always the most valuable there), so they were both on my list.

Also, if there is anything I have to address, let me know.

Also, can anyone give me their take on why sprit voted for Nanook? Out of all the votes I see up there, that is the one that surprises me the most.

I was also busy yesterday but I had a chance to read up on what's been happening. Colin has been getting suspicion for not doing much of anything. A few people namely sloonei and spirit said colin often gets mislynched for this so they were wary of voting him so soon. TH said they're suspicious for defending him. I didn't see that as defending him as much as just being cautious of voting him too early without giving him a chance. I understand this because I get mislynched for my weird playstyle too sometimes but I haven't seen anything from colin that convinces me he's town. I had pointed out that sloonei and spirit haven't been their usual selves in the beginning of the game but I feel like sloonei has been more towny than spirit. Sloonei questioned me on my post and what I meant was if TH was suspecting him because of his difference in playstyle I could have understood that more than sayi g he's bad fir defending colin. I realize I worded that weird.


Sig had a big long post saying he was limited to one post and he thought mac did it. Mac disappeared for awhile and when he came back to find suspicion on him he was in full force mac mode and saying he's going to be mislynched and saying he won all these sockys so he is a good player and how could anyone accuse him and usual mac jokey stuff. He gave some reads and threw some suspicion at jack. I plan to read through his ISO and compare to some other games. He can be pretty tricky to read and as he pointed out he is a good player. I'm wondering if the more emotional mac is a scummy mac that got annoyed he was caught or just a civ mac being annoyed that anyone would suspect him.

I'm trying to enjoy my weekend but I plan to read through the ISOs and I'll be around in and out.

Sabie only made one post that mentions sig and she didn't offer thoughts about him in it.

The absence of a read and content about sig in general is quite odd given sig's shifting position on her. I would think that a mafioso would pay attention to an opponent that has a deep red read of them that earlier civ read them? Contrast how she dealt with sig with how she dealt with me for instance.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am He also compared you to g-man as if that's his pet vote

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:42 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:49 am Let me rephrase. He can do whatever he wants. But it should not be looked upon favourably by anybody who actually understands how to win this game. What he is doing is a specifically scummy strategy. If he was town he would attempt to cause the lynch of somebody he thinks is a good lynch.

If I am wrong for voicing this or your natural reaction is to mock me for it then I question how seriously you're taking winning this game as a civilian.

this is right.
if Mac is scum this is moot I think but in either case if I’m serious I’d be spending more time trying to find a better lynch.
ironically Mac knows that I’d be more serious about it if I were scum.
But I don’t care enough to save Mac.