The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:00 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:58 am @Sloonei I think we have chaos merchants and I myself am contributing. So I'd like to just try my best to zen and play this straight.

Do you agree with a POE that contains Long Con, Speedchuck, Radishes and Turnip Head?
I town read turnip and long con, but not enough to remove them from a hypothetical POE. I’d keep epi in there as well.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:41 pm I want to say that I did not target MacDougall with my power.

My team volunteered me to target Mac with the kill, and I didn't remember they did that.

Hence I was goofy about that business.

And on the flipside I in fact did target you

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:38 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:36 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:33 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:32 pmEpi remains undefeated.
That's the part that hurt the most about all this.
Well done old timer. Good to see the old LC come out to the races.
Thanks. A quote for you from out baddie chat:

Long Con: yes kill Mac that fucker
I don't like what he did to me

Haha. May we get into scum chat sir?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:35 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:33 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:32 pmEpi remains undefeated.
That's the part that hurt the most about all this.
I would be lying if I said this didn't factor into my determination over the last 48 hours.

As you were painstakingly trying to determine who had the better non scum claims at lylo it dawned on me that in that scenario looking for who is not the scum will benefit the scum as they have intentionally been playing to both look not scum and also to make a reducing number of players look scum. Should I find myself in those shoes again I will be lynching the player who simply looks least like a townie, not most like the scum. I think Jay summed it up well earlier when he basically reduced the scum to their sum parts on the basis of who was actually trying to game solve.

I don't envy the situation you were in but I learned that much from it so thanks.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:33 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:32 pmEpi remains undefeated.
That's the part that hurt the most about all this.

Well done old timer. Good to see the old LC come out to the races.

Btw I used my shot on N1 on Epi but it missed cuz he didn't have a boat.

Hard luck town. We played well. Kudos scum. I learned a lot from this lylo. Epi remains undefeated.

If you are town you're and think I am town, there are better ways of going about resolving this than telling me that I haven't made posts/content that I clearly have.

And as Sloonei said I have articulated town reads. That they are not ones you appreciate is not my concern. My concern is being correct. That my POE is full of people that make too sense/is too agreeable isn't an argument. Show me people I town read who aren't.

That's a good talent you have there of quoting a bunch of reasons I have to scumread you and saying that I haven't provided anyway.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:55 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:47 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:43 am Aw man, I'm finally properly awake and fed and ready to play some Mafia and you all leave my wagon.
I would like for you to focus on Turnip Head, Long Con and Speedchuck analysis if you have time.
I've made my position on LC clear - I'm not voting there today. Barring some revelation about game mechanics, I don't see a wolf, any wolf, even you or someone equally bold, self-voting and sitting there whilst the wagons were tied like he did.

I'll do proper ISOs of the other two later.

And Mac, do something for me too, if you have time - find me town, sooner or later. Your PoE is three low content producers and me. It's not a very inspiring PoE and my inclusion in it has never been properly justified beyond a generic 'MR could be scum too' that I've seen. Read me properly and take a firmer stance.

Perhaps you should read the thread before you make statements like this.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:43 am Aw man, I'm finally properly awake and fed and ready to play some Mafia and you all leave my wagon.

I would like for you to focus on Turnip Head, Long Con and Speedchuck analysis if you have time.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:19 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:17 am Turnip Head having 0 votes in this vote spread is curious. If he were town one would think scum would find his button a satisfying resting place.
That would make TH / speed the exact team. See that happening?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:19 am speed placed his vote on TH for the entirety of day 1 if i remember correctly, th didn't mention it at all from what i can remember

This is an incomprehensible train of thought.

I suspect TH based on something totally different. You dismiss it at hand because Speedchuck stuck his vote there all day one, which would mean for TH to be scum it has to be exactly Speedchuck as his partner, which can't be true because ...

Sound like you just don't want TH lynched to me. Wonder why that might be.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:20 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:17 am Turnip Head having 0 votes in this vote spread is curious. If he were town one would think scum would find his button a satisfying resting place.

ISO him and specifically focus on the way he's treated his "suspects". There's really nothing behind them. He arrived at "Ted=scum" and basically just stuck to it. When asked why his vote stayed there he retorted "why didn't you join me"? It's very meh.

Doing a quick glance at TH's game and I'm seeing a lot of the surface level pen pushing scum like to do. Not much real gamesolving, a lot of accusations and statements with little insight into the underlying thought behind them. I particularly don't understand/buy that his level of Tedxtr suspicion vibes with the fact that Ted has been his primary focus (notwithstanding his vote isn't there atm).

Should TH be scum I'd suggest one scum teammate in that little cute threesome, and it's not Funnygirl because Funnygirl has actually been the target of real sticky vitriol from him. He's had a suspicion of Tedxtr for a while and done very little to promote it, but he won't let go of it. Very scum distancing esque.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:19 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:17 am Turnip Head having 0 votes in this vote spread is curious. If he were town one would think scum would find his button a satisfying resting place.
That would make TH / speed the exact team. See that happening?

Why?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:42 am Scum team could be Mikey, funny girl and tedextr as far as I'm concerned

Curious

[VOTE: Turnip Head] aubergine

Turnip Head having 0 votes in this vote spread is curious. If he were town one would think scum would find his button a satisfying resting place.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:10 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:38 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:34 am Teds at two votes from GoC teammates with one against
what is the strongest read you have on a player in this game right now, either town or mafia?
Mac is town.

Can you give me cliffs of the TSP/Dragomir engagements that were?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:08 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:04 am Because the dude went hard at me man, i fucking town read that shit, i can't read him, i need him out to read other people. I think his case on me sucks but he doesn't feel scum like he felt in GoC.

His case = sucked balls

how he went about it = probably town

anything else to him ? no.

what do you fucking do with that really
is it your natural inclination to town read those that "go hard at you"?
yes

Curious

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:04 am Because the dude went hard at me man, i fucking town read that shit, i can't read him, i need him out to read other people. I think his case on me sucks but he doesn't feel scum like he felt in GoC.

His case = sucked balls

how he went about it = probably town

anything else to him ? no.

what do you fucking do with that really

is it your natural inclination to town read those that "go hard at you"?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:01 am I don't know how I feel about Radishes.

linki : that's kind of insulting my town game but it's okay i sucked this game

I am having flashbacks to something

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:01 am I don't know how I feel about Radishes.

linki : that's kind of insulting my town game but it's okay i sucked this game

I want more than that. Explain why you "don't know". Provide insight.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:00 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:58 am @Sloonei I think we have chaos merchants and I myself am contributing. So I'd like to just try my best to zen and play this straight.

Do you agree with a POE that contains Long Con, Speedchuck, Radishes and Turnip Head?
I town read turnip and long con, but not enough to remove them from a hypothetical POE. I’d keep epi in there as well.

Keeping Epi in there serves no purpose imo. He's not going to be lynched until the mid game at earliest. I want to turn these four upon one another in a firm manner.

Tedxtr has demonstrated that his wolf game is better than what it would have to be for him to be wolf here.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:59 am I said the hunting that MR is doing is relying on linguistic tells that are easy to craft as either alignment.

And then I was merely stating that the "can be faked" thing is a generality that doesn't apply to me in that case.

Difference being, one of those things points to someone's alignment as going either way and the other is saying why he shouldn't be taking that into account when reading me. If you're suggesting I should be scum reading Mac from that then you're wrong.

So do you scum read Radishes?

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] I think we have chaos merchants and I myself am contributing. So I'd like to just try my best to zen and play this straight.

Do you agree with a POE that contains Long Con, Speedchuck, Radishes and Turnip Head?

For me I think we need to flip LC and Speedchuck, probably need to flip Radishes and Turnip Head. I think today should be a choice between LC and Speedchuck and then we reassess tomorrow based on the result. I can't imagine there is no scum in those four names. If there is gg.

ted is wrong town I'm just locking it in and giving up on chasing that dragon

[VOTE: Tedxtr] aubergine

I don't believe anything he has said. I have the worst gut feels towards him and all the positive things about him can be faked.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:53 pm I feel like LC is playing scummy on purpose

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:55 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:53 pm I feel like LC is playing scummy on purpose
I don't understand.

This is more backstory for the Ted/LC games we play.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:15 am If it puts your mind at ease, here's some reasons why Sloonei never kills Dragomir:
Spoiler: show
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:16 am Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:26 am I agree with Sloo. Leetic is probably town. Been mindmelding with Sloonei a lot.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:23 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:20 pm Sure, but first tell me who your top 2 town reads are and your bottom 2 reads are?
Sloonei and Ted.

LC and TSP.
Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:56 pm Its gonna be hard for me to participate in these remaining hours. I'm quite busy right now so EoD activity is a no go from my side.

My reads right now still have LC as scum but it's not as strong as before. Leetic has creeped up in my scum reads, but it's not very strong either. My reasons don't felt good enough to support a vote on him and I have had a couple mindmelds with him. His defense against my recent accusations were just as well.

Speedchuck is probably my strongest scum read atm doubt that's not saying much as it's still kinda weak, just barely above the other two. I don't think I'll be voting anybody for this phase.

My town reads, on the other hand, are quite strong. max, Sloonei, and FG are the highest; all three equal with each other. Turnip Head, TS, Ted, and Epi follow behind.

Radish and TSP are my remaining null reads.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:15 pm I like that post by Sloonei.

Who wasn't town reading you though?

The Radish wagon is a counterwagon... to the FG wagon?

I am gonna stab myself in the eye.

Radishes made a read on me that was really authentic though. When I read it I soul read him as town. "I believe I am watching town Mac". Cerebral if scum.

Radishes and Long Con are voting for FG
Turnip Head for Mikey
Speedchuck for LC

Is it as simple as TH/Radishes and LC are the wolves?

I believe ... no. But also, I'm gonna flip all four of these before anyone else in the game and if we lose then so be it. Anyone object to this POE?

Radishes first always.

No, Mac, you only do this when the truth is too obvious to believe.

Sloonei is town
ted is town
FG is town
TS is town
Tony is town
Epi is town

Long Con, Turnip Head, Speedchuck and Radishes have 3/4 wolves in them? Not a single one of these four voting for Radishes spews him as scum moreso than the rest of them, so we must flip him.

GG.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:58 am It’s probably something like

Mac / Sloonei and idk who

Feel like we have v/v wagons again

Inb4 “HoW wOuLd YoU kNoW tHaT fUcKiNg WoLf?”

Certainly where I would have arrived if I was you.

It's just that there is no world in which Sloonei is the right lynch. He is the town captain and his effort is incredible so far going far beyond anything he mustered in the GOC. And if he is town and we flip him it's almost game throwing. So if not him, then whom? Who makes a decision to shoot Dragomir that isn't Sloonei? Can a team that has Long Con and/or Speedchuck and/or Turnip Head in it choose to shoot him? I really don't think so. Then again perhaps this is all just wifom. But wifom is garbage reasoning. Turnip Head shoots Sloonei I feel. Speedchuck and LC shoot Mac? It might be galaxy brain but I almost want to townclear all three of them because of this. Unless TH and Sloonei are teammates? Actually I think they might be? They were both towncored by me.

I am wondering whether TS Account's game quality here has risen exactly because of his alignment (and contributing partners)? Or perhaps the same can be said for Funnygirl? But Funnygirl's schtick of begging Mikey to find her ... is that in range for any scum to play up to that degree? I ... don't think so.

Master Radishes is the one who can be scum in any combinations though. He has no reason to prefer to shoot me or Sloonei. Maybe that makes him town? He is hung out to dry?

I think TSP qualifies as someone who would not have shot Drago too tbh.

I think the team is Sloonei + Turnip Head + one of Mikey/Funnygirl ... probably Funnygirl?

If so I am shot tonight and they're going to win so I'm probs just gonna meme now.

For me, the Dragomir kill as opposed to a Sloonei/Mac kill makes tremendous sense to have been executed by exactly Sloonei and/or Mac. That he was killed over me, also makes me suspect that the kill was fired from someone/s whose bulk are inside my hypothesised town core, or at least quite comfortably nullish (perhaps a TonyStarkPrime).

I strongly feel like LC/Speedchuck combinations usually shoot me. Epignosis can go either way as I know he tends to let others make decisions about kills.

I spent a lot of this day 2 fucking around doing nothing and drew nearly no suspicion from anyone. I feel pocketed.

Of the living, Dragomir had the worst impression of Speedchuck, Long Con and Radishes I think.

The problem is that, I also had really bad impressions of those three and if one or more of them are bad I feel (not trying to sound egotistical) like I'm a better target than Dragomir given our comparable positions in the game.

So I'm not sure that Dragomir was killed for being super right about his suspects. I think it's more likely that Dragomir was killed because he was wedging someone named Sloonei.

I love this Radishes vote

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:11 am closing thoughts before i sleep:

a radish lynch is spicy and i'd be behind it if y'all do some substantial grilling before eod. i want to see him under pressure

i can't shake thinking that ted is town and i don't want him to be lynched, but if y'all do end up lynching him, that's some great info

epi isn't a d2 lynch

i think tsp should die still. someone tell me why he's town and why that's a bad idea

mac and ts are untouchable. sloonei looks pretty good

turnip honestly looks better to me. kinda looks like they don't know what they're doing. wouldn't want a turnip lynch

lc prolly shouldn't die. they should get vig'd though, or copped, or something

speedchuck could die, sure.

This is remarkably similar to my current take on the game.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:24 pm I basically have to clear myself because I was a counterwagon to flipped town

problem with that is that i have to push a scum and i don't have a fucking idea who that is right now

i'm deleting my entire ISO and starting from scratch, I'm re-reading and then coming up with my reads and shit

nothing that I posted before this matters k

Ted followed up remonstrating about how "the game doesn't make sense to him" with a justification of self focus. I don't like it. But I really agree with what he is saying. Just not the way or why? Hard read to put into words. The kind of read that is right but wrong.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:05 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:03 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:56 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:08 pm [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Turnip Head is town.
Explain your thought process on why TH is town now? I liked your point about him watching and commenting and sitting on a dead wagon. (It may have only been 1 vote off, but it had no momentum.)
He's not lying about having a town read on leetic, and the response of telling me to shove my vote up my ass looked authentic.
Okay, that's kind of how I felt too.

I've flip-flopped on TH a lot so far (in my head more so than in thread). His overall tone feels really good; his contributions/actions or lack thereof are open to questioning.

I am starting to see a wolf in Radishes. His meandering commentary reads false to me.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:28 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:25 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:21 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:19 am I just double checked. Ted never answered LC and LC never asked him to. Now I think they're teammates.
So your teammate asks you an easy question and you just ... don’t respond? It was a softball and if they were teamed Ted would have no reason to suspect the question to have deeper motivation
What if Ted didn't want to elaborate on what he was saying? Why has LC not asked him to explain himself since?
Seems easy to answer though, no? Why wouldn’t Ted want to say? LC might have forgotten or made an educational guess based on context. It really doesn’t seem like a substantial question.

I think it's quite clear that Ted didn't want to say by virtue of the fact that he hasn't. He made quite a provocative post and just dropped it. So did the person who immediately noticed it. Don't you find that strange?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:54 pm I've not had the time to do to sit down and properly read through and think about things, but a few random musings:

-Just...no way LC isn't a civ, right? If he was scum making a gambit, he wouldn't have left it tied, surely. Someone tell me why he could reasonably be mafia, otherwise I'm locking him in as town.

-The lack of excitement around EoD also confirms that the scum didn't care who got lynched. This, like others I see, makes me want to look at people who sat on their votes. This requires more thinking and re-reading.

-Normally I'd put odds on one of the lynchee's voters being scum, but if they were happy with the wagons (leetic, LC, ted) then it's just as likely they let the town lynch one of their own and fell on one of the other wagons or even off-wagon. I rely heavily on VCA, personally, but don't see the point in wasting my brain cells on it just yet. Maybe when I get bored later in the round.

-Not that it matters much at the moment, but I'm bad at timezones and EoD is an hour earlier than I thought it was. I might occasionally be able to make it, if I bother to make the effort.

I feel like the bolded is very much scumthought. He is justifying why not to exercise his usual civilian mindset based on abstraction. Absolving himself of his duty to be provocative. This entire post in fact has that same tone.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:21 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:19 am I just double checked. Ted never answered LC and LC never asked him to. Now I think they're teammates.
So your teammate asks you an easy question and you just ... don’t respond? It was a softball and if they were teamed Ted would have no reason to suspect the question to have deeper motivation

What if Ted didn't want to elaborate on what he was saying? Why has LC not asked him to explain himself since?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:08 pm [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Turnip Head is town.

I ... agree. For some reason.

I just double checked. Ted never answered LC and LC never asked him to. Now I think they're teammates.

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