The Syndicate

Couldn't you still vote?

I think it's safe to say that we are currently in the first stage of a multi-stage game. MP makes it clear in the opening post that Project Mayhem will start at some point. I think when that happens, that's when scumhunting (and probably lynching) becomes our main objective. But with the Policemen roles and such, it's hard to say how that will go down. Hopefully going to Chicago will help us answer at least a few questions.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Keterman wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Keterman wrote:Who won the fight between us?

I did, you were not seriously injured. Did you not get a PM?

No, I didn't. Well, good to know.

This is very odd, since you should have. If you didn't, clearly an oversight on my part, apologies for that.

It's all good.

Black Rock wrote:

Keterman wrote:Who won the fight between us?

I did, you were not seriously injured. Did you not get a PM?

No, I didn't. Well, good to know.

Who won the fight between us?

I wish to fight again. I'll take on any of you.

I would rather suffer whatever consequences there might be than try to decipher that.

thellama73 wrote:

Keterman wrote:

Roxy wrote:Btw I do not lie as a civilian - ever.

Me neither. I think this applies to most players. And I still find it amusing that that particular excerpt of my two posts was the only thing he could manage to respond to.

It's not the only thing I could respond to. It's the only thing I chose to respond to.

If you care at all that you're a scum read for most of the other players, you should know it's effectively the same thing. Not defending yourself might as well be not being able to defend yourself to anyone that's not you.

Roxy wrote:Btw I do not lie as a civilian - ever.

Me neither. I think this applies to most players. And I still find it amusing that that particular excerpt of my two posts was the only thing he could manage to respond to.

thellama73 wrote:

Keterman wrote:your "I Just don't know" shtick comes off as fake to me, which in my mind, makes things worse for you.

Ah, but what makes you think I wouldn't be fake as a civilian? Since when is fake the same as bad?

That was your entire comeback? Fake does have a correlation with bad. If you sound like you're making a false argument, that warrants suspicion. Why would it not?

And as unfurl just noted, as many others have, you took a very aggressive "us vs. them" approach on Day 1. That was fine with me at first, but now you seem to be pretending that that argument against you doesn't exist. It's not that you were vocal, it's that you were aggressive, and suggesting that the towns were in competition with each other rather than the real enemy. You were correct in that we don't know what Tyler is trying to do, and therefore we can't gauge you based on information we don't have, but it doesn't seem acceptable for a regular civilian to take that approach, and there's only so many other options of what you could be up to. It's a matter of the process of elimination.

thellama73 wrote:

Keterman wrote:The probability is that it's unlikely for Dom to be Tyler or Marla. But the probability is also that it's unlikely for anyone in particular to be Tyler or Marla, yet two people must be, and the general consensus of who one of them is has pointed at you and DH the most. That's why Dom doesn't trust you. I don't trust you either, but that's because I don't trust anyone.

Your distrust is sensible. Dom's is not. Why do my actions make me more likely to be Tyler? In order to conclude that, you must first :
1) formulate some idea of how Tyler is likely to behave, which in turn requires
2) an idea of what Tyler's goals are and what he is trying to accomplish and
3) the processes by which he will be able to accomplish his goals.

I don't have any clear picture of any of these, and thus no idea of what kind of behavior to "expect" from Tyler. In a traditional game, baddies win by flying under the radar and avoiding suspicions. I have certainly not done that. This is not a traditional game, though, and I don't know whether that strategy, or a strategy of intentionally drawing suspicion towards oneself would be better. It could be, but I just don't know. DH doesn't know either, unless he is one of the special roles that has more info than the rest of us.

Therefore, if DH is a civilian, his distrust of me is irrational and based on nothing. QED.

My read on you leaned much more on the civilian side before your defense of the Tyler accusations, which was the main reason why I asked you to answer that, to see if I could get a better read on you. And I think I did. You seemed to imply in that earlier defense, and again you imply it here, that simply because you're drawing attention to yourself must mean that you're less likely to be scum. That's poor reasoning, in my opinion, and I think you know it is. Without exception, I try to be equally (if not more) vocal in my "scumhunting" as scum as I am when I'm civilian. It's not that you could be hiding something that bothers me, it's that you think that your reasoning there will convince people. I'm talking about the excerpt that I bolded. I can tell by as many wins in your signature that you're not dumb enough to think that there's a consistent correlation between flying under the radar and avoiding suspicions. In my experience, and I imagine yours as well, flying under the radar is just as likely to cause suspicion as bizarre behavior is. And granted, you accept the possibility that in a role madness game things might play out differently, but your "I Just don't know" shtick comes off as fake to me, which in my mind, makes things worse for you.

The probability is that it's unlikely for Dom to be Tyler or Marla. But the probability is also that it's unlikely for anyone in particular to be Tyler or Marla, yet two people must be, and the general consensus of who one of them is has pointed at you and DH the most. That's why Dom doesn't trust you. I don't trust you either, but that's because I don't trust anyone.

I'm voting for Long Con for his enthusiasm, and so I don't forget to vote.

thellama73 wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:Hellooo Wilmington! Ketermen and I have returned from New Castle bearing news, but no beer.

Was it worth it? I am considering leaving tomorrow, but not if it's going to suck.

It was for me, but I don't think I'll do it again unless there's a significant change in the gameplay, because my curiosity was satisfied. And I wouldn't recommend it for you just because I don't think you would get much out of it now that it's Day 3 and we already have quite a few questions (for the most part) answered.

How do you feel about more than one person suggesting you might be Tyler? I'm not sure how you would defend yourself there, but I'm curious as to what you have to say about it.

I have to give it to thellama73, he was right and I was wrong in two occasions. One, that voting to move towns only indicates the action of the individual and not the initial town population (which looking back was pretty silly for me to think, I guess it was because as with the hidden threads, I didn't know such a thing was possible with this forum setup) Two, that Wilmington had a better chance of becoming the home base for the fights to occur than any other town. There were very little posts at New Castle both in Day 1 and Day 2, and I ended up volunteering to fight along with Black Rock. The two of us won the vote unanimously. I came back here to see what I had missed (also noting that a lot of people from New Castle went to Wilmington) and from the looks of things I don't think it's out of the question that just about everyone will move here in time.

DharmaHelper wrote:Most of us from New Castle wanted to leave, Anyone that stayed I think just missed the poll.

Confirmed. No one voted to stay.

I don't see why that game mechanic would be out of the question.

bea wrote:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:Responding to a couple of people on page 2:
I never said I thought we were all on the same team, only that I believe that I can trust everyone here for the time being. Obviously if my suspicion is correct, a lot of us could be recruited eventually. So I am keeping my distance. Keep in mind that this is far from a typical Mafia game. That being said, this is a typical Sock game

Devin - I agree with you lots. I think at the LEAST until tonight is over, we are all pretty trustworthy. I think it was sorsha? maybe? who said something about seeing a recruiter and a police person in each thread. I think that people *with* roles are spread out among the threads for sure, but yes. I agree - here and now - we are all fairly face value. After tonight though, I don't know. I can't believe that Tyler could recruit to project mayham from *every* thread - but who knows? It's a dice role. You put it best. It's not a typical mafia game, but it is a typical Socky game.

At the moment, I'm firm in believing that most of us are vanilla civs. One or two of us may have a role. Someone *could* be Tyler. The Police/Martha/and Narrator are all aligned. All the civ's have to do is stay alive.

One thing I find worth pointing out...there are four towns. Delaware City, New Castle, Penns Grove, and us, Wilmington. There are ten players in our town, so I would assume there are ten players in the other towns as well. But with 38 total players that's two players short for one town, or one player short for two towns. Or something completely different. I have no theory based around that, just thought it was worth bringing up, and another possible reason why switching towns might get us some helpful answers.

bea wrote:And my thing to sgettie about background knowlege made me go look this up:

“Welcome to Fight Club. The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: you DO NOT talk about Fight Club! Third rule of Fight Club: if someone yells “stop!”, goes limp, or taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule: only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule: one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule: the fights are bare knuckle. No shirt, no shoes, no weapons. Seventh rule: fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.”

I think maybe now I see an advantage to staying home? If we move, it might be our first night at Fight Club there. Then it would be two of us that had to fight. Is that what you were thinking llama?

This is the stuff I was afraid of because I too haven't seen the film. It's not a stretch at all to suggest that those rules will directly influence the game, and that final rule is the only argument I've seen yet to stay here rather than move that has swayed me at all.

bea wrote:Not defending sgettie any more than I was defending llama - but I can see where he was coming from as well. Especially if he crammed reading on his phone while he's in the middle of no where.

I can see him reading the collecting of votes as a Day 1 everyone took the lame scapegoat and voted the guy who didn't show up as the day 1 lynch. I don't know that sgettie is seeing his votes any differently from what a typical day 1 lynch would be like. Does that make sense?

I see how from a quick read he could see it that way, but I don't think it was wise to make such a concrete, unflinching post about how he feels about the situation before a thorough read of the thread. Especially because that was the first declaration of suspicion we've seen in the game, and it was entirely because thellama73 led the vote against him. That's considered an amateur scum move ("OMGUS", or Oh My God You Suck) where I've always played mafia, but no one else has called it out so I assume it is forgiven here.

I'm kind of taken at right now so I'll read bea's lengthy post and whatever other posts come about in two and a half hours.

Boogs wrote:Keterman I'm glad you're playing again. I hope you can give some good input in this game since you got replaced in Occultism. What are your thoughts on Llama, Keterman?

I still disagree with his logic (it doesn't help that his response to my argument was literally a joke) on staying here, and I'm a little surprised that most of the players so far are agreeing with him rather than me. If you're asking if I'm suspicious of him, I'm not. Or if I am, it's not a higher suspicion than anyone else. It is only Night 1 of a lengthy game and I've yet to develop any reads.

I'm surprised that SpaghettiEverywhere was surprised that we all voted for him. As llama said, those that volunteered could have ulterior motives, and because we don't know anything about what fighting is like, it was best to throw a virtual non-participant into the ring. If I was him, I would agree with that logic and would have no complaints about being the top candidate.

I have a feeling I might miss the vote, so I'm going to go ahead and vote for New Castle as well. I'm not a beer fan, but there's already a vote for it and I'd rather hop on that random bandwagon than stay here or pick another town that also has no relevant basis for voting.

Boogs wrote:Also a question for MP or whoever else I was at work and couldn't check the game until just now, so I don't see a copy of the poll. Can anyone tell me how many votes I ended up getting and SE?

Spaghetti got four votes and you and Devin had one vote each (self-votes). The only other vote was from MovingPictures07. I know this not because I was paying as much attention as I probably should have but because there's an archive thread for the polls we're allowed to see in the Fight Club subforum.

thellama73 wrote:

Keterman wrote:So it is the top two candidates that we voted for pitted against each other. Because of that, staying here seems like a bad idea. I imagine we would only lower our numbers without making any progress. Maybe not, but moving feels like much less of a risk at this point.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that other towns face exactly the same problem though? They will reduce their numbers as well, and some of them will doubtless move here.

I propose a Wilmington Alliance, where we stay here and then make the newcomers fight each other when they arrive.

I don't see how staying here will make us stronger though. If we become the number one town for all of the fights to occur, then okay. But the other towns have an equal chance of that happening, so staying here doesn't automatically make us the best town. Assuming that the other towns have the same amount of knowledge as we do, it's not unlikely that someone proposes the same argument that you did in each town. Then no one moves, and the numbers are reduced in each town, which I imagine can't be a good thing. If we move, we will either confirm that the towns are equal or confirm that they are not, which is helpful information in either case. It's also likely that we will gain some other information that will help us. By staying here, it's too likely that we remain at Square 1 as far as what we need to know to progress. I agree that it would be nice to form an alliance, but I think it's too early to go along with such a proposal. We still don't know what fighting is in this game.

Hedgeowl wrote:Sorry all to miss this vote. I had the two games aligned at 6pm in my brain. I voted new castle for our next destination .

In

Is there any particular reason you chose New Castle?

So it is the top two candidates that we voted for pitted against each other. Because of that, staying here seems like a bad idea. I imagine we would only lower our numbers without making any progress. Maybe not, but moving feels like much less of a risk at this point.

For those who have seen the movie, do the towns in the poll have a significant enough correlation to the story that we might have an idea of what we're getting into depending on which town we choose?

I'm not sure how serious you are about that thellama73, but I think if she was trying to convince us to initiate a tie vote she wouldn't do it subliminally.

That being said, I like your idea of voting for the no-show. We need the least useful member to reveal to us what these fights are without any major consequences. I'll go ahead and vote.

In that case, then yes, I volunteer. Although that seems to not matter anyway in favor of a "system", which it doesn't look like I'm going to be filled in on.

Noted, thank you. Do you think it would make more sense for Tyler to be a rogue role or a mafia role? Or something in between?

I'm from the RateYourMusic off-topic forums. Although mafia can be just as complex there, it's much less formal and organized, and from what I gather here, much more bloodthirsty, as opposed to goal-oriented.

I would also want to vote for someone who would stay alive. But as you said yourself, you (and I, and maybe all of us here) have no idea which qualities would be most desirable. I reasoned earlier that it's most likely not a randomly chosen decision of who wins in that fight. If we can make an educated guess as to how the fight will go down, it should be easier to decide who will go. But in the likely case that we make no progress today in that educated guess, I would be willing to vote for Sorsha, or someone else that volunteers.

Nice to meet you too bea, and all others.

I didn't know that this was a forum where threads could made be private. That (hopefully) explains the division of towns, then. Since it seems like the nature of the fighting is entirely up for speculation, I'm going to make the safe (?) assumption that it is a risky but not scum-correlative bet when it comes to who we're going to vote for. A champion, as bea put it. In which case I will also be willing to volunteer if Sorsha changes her mind. I have a lot of free time if that plays a factor, and as a first-timer on the website, it may be preferable that I have yet to establish a certain play style here, and are therefore less "readable" than other possible candidates, again, if that plays a factor. Regardless, I hope the "fight" is not a roll of dice, and I don't think it would be considering that we're nominating people.

It's also interesting that our selection of who to vote for today is of only ten people. Are those not listed as alive (or dead) also not allowed to post? This game is far too complex for me to try and decipher what MovingPictures07 is trying to do here with the gameplay, so instead I'm just raising questions that could spark veteran players' ideas that could help.

"Decide who to fight" is all we have to go on in determining what to do here. I think we need to decide a good guess as to what it means before we get into who we're going to pick. Traditional mafia suggests a day vote is to lynch scum. How often does this website deviate from that norm I would like to know? In any case it's not out of the question that for a setup this radical there might be a deviation that extreme, in that who we vote for in the day might not be lynched or even someone we want to be lynched per say, and as Sorsha suggested it might even be something we could experiment with positively without even having to point fingers. A "campaign" is also suggested by Sorsha. That seems like a strange idea given that there isn't a hint of confirmation that being chosen to fight is something to be desired in this game, but I can understand (and relate to) the curiosity. How would a campaign go about, though?

Beaten: Welcome Rox!

thellama73 wrote:

Keterman wrote:And how will this "fight" go down exactly? I assume it won't be pretty for anyone involved.

Hint: It's not a pillow-fight.

Mud wrestling then?

And how will this "fight" go down exactly? I assume it won't be pretty for anyone involved.