The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:14 pm If I'm bringing back a dead civilian to replace in, I clear it with my mafia team(s) first.

Good solution actually! I might do this in future if necessary.

You have to decide: completely inactive member vs modkill - which one disrupts the game more? I'd say the former considering inactives get policy lynched and a wasted kill on them and talked about and people wasting time on them. Also, when inactives exist in critical game scenarios, mafia have often skipped kills to frame them... It's all unnecessary and the game would be more fluid if modkills were implemented.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:11 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:03 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:05 am

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:22 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:17 pm I disagree with the green most wholeheartedly, but I understand the rationale. When you host, what I find is that in most cases they slowly drop away anyway, but if they do stay it's generally not to plot, it's to hang out, and it keeps the morale high associated with being mafia (which is a rather thankless task). As a civilian, I don't really agree that the reason you lynched someone was to get them out of chat. It was because you caught them and they were bad. Or to get rid of their ability.

I don't mind if they stay to chat or whatever. But a dead scummer is dead and the players in the game believe him or her to be out of it and not influencing any scum decisions. He or she should have no influence on the game just like a dead townie shouldn't. Just cos they have BTSC and not a public thread doesn't make it ok.

It's like if there were two masons, and one died, does s/he go on playing the game in BTSC with the other mason, cos why not?

nah, it's bad.

Well obviously you exclude players who have info.

- Mafia
- Anyone with BTSC
- Cops/tracker/watcher with unclaimed results
- Anyone whose role was hidden when they died.

that's not what I meant. I meant the mafia team wanted a player dead, they sacrificed a NK to kill that player and were successful. Having that player, even if he/she is eligible because they didn't have any background power role info, replace an inactive or whatever, isn't fair on the mafia team. The player who was killed and is now a replacement, with his/her reads and biases that the mafia team didn't want influencing the game anymore and successfully got rid of, has returned. To haunt them a second time!

I would never allow dead players to return, personally.

What if that player got lynched the first time?

same deal for me. It messes up the balance of the game. The mafia could have pushed that lynch. Or even not, town lynched them. They get a second chance at reading that player more accurately.

I don't like it. I also hate late replacements (even if the player is a genuine replacement and not a dead player). Messes up with the balance, and hard to get it right.

Modkills are the unbiased solution, sad as that may be. If modkills were implemented here more, I think there'd be less instances of people dropping off the face of the earth when they know they'd be modkilled and affecting their team that badly. I prefer modkills, regardless of faction.

I'm not talking about lesser evil on the whole here, I'm just saying that rule is always pro-town and anti-mafia.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:05 am

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:22 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:17 pm I disagree with the green most wholeheartedly, but I understand the rationale. When you host, what I find is that in most cases they slowly drop away anyway, but if they do stay it's generally not to plot, it's to hang out, and it keeps the morale high associated with being mafia (which is a rather thankless task). As a civilian, I don't really agree that the reason you lynched someone was to get them out of chat. It was because you caught them and they were bad. Or to get rid of their ability.

I don't mind if they stay to chat or whatever. But a dead scummer is dead and the players in the game believe him or her to be out of it and not influencing any scum decisions. He or she should have no influence on the game just like a dead townie shouldn't. Just cos they have BTSC and not a public thread doesn't make it ok.

It's like if there were two masons, and one died, does s/he go on playing the game in BTSC with the other mason, cos why not?

nah, it's bad.

Well obviously you exclude players who have info.

- Mafia
- Anyone with BTSC
- Cops/tracker/watcher with unclaimed results
- Anyone whose role was hidden when they died.

that's not what I meant. I meant the mafia team wanted a player dead, they sacrificed a NK to kill that player and were successful. Having that player, even if he/she is eligible because they didn't have any background power role info, replace an inactive or whatever, isn't fair on the mafia team. The player who was killed and is now a replacement, with his/her reads and biases that the mafia team didn't want influencing the game anymore and successfully got rid of, has returned. To haunt them a second time!

I would never allow dead players to return, personally.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:20 pm As for the red - I generally draw the line here. People who were lynched on day one and were town may sub back in - they have no info, they weren't killed by the mafia, I don't really see any way their reintroduction negatively influences the game. But I don't like to let people back in who have any insight as a result of ability use or being killed.

what about a vanilla civ who was killed/lynched on N3/D3, replacing no-show player on D4?

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:17 pm I disagree with the green most wholeheartedly, but I understand the rationale. When you host, what I find is that in most cases they slowly drop away anyway, but if they do stay it's generally not to plot, it's to hang out, and it keeps the morale high associated with being mafia (which is a rather thankless task). As a civilian, I don't really agree that the reason you lynched someone was to get them out of chat. It was because you caught them and they were bad. Or to get rid of their ability.

I don't mind if they stay to chat or whatever. But a dead scummer is dead and the players in the game believe him or her to be out of it and not influencing any scum decisions. He or she should have no influence on the game just like a dead townie shouldn't. Just cos they have BTSC and not a public thread doesn't make it ok.

It's like if there were two masons, and one died, does s/he go on playing the game in BTSC with the other mason, cos why not?

nah, it's bad.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:41 pm I just remembered to add another item too:

• A rule which allows mafia members to submit actions on behalf of their teammates

I have placed this in the "moderately pro-mafia" category, though it could also probably fit in the "slightly pro-mafia" category. I think this is a significant allowance for a mafia team in that it allows them to forego any team member who is inactive -- a luxury which a civilian faction simply cannot enjoy when its members are inactive. The lack of a viable counter can be very beneficial to the bad guys.

ehhhhh. it sucks when you have a team of 3 vs 16 for example and that random scum team of 3 have 2 inactives and 1 active player and no replacements in the game. sometimes the mod makes exceptions to balance the game out. I don't fault them tbh.

I hate it when town kills a scum and a mod allows them to stay on and chat and plot. or when mafia kill a townie and then that townie replaces another inactive. THOSE should both be banned forever. We got rid of you for a reason: you shouldn't be impacting the game imo.