The Syndicate

I acknowledge this is a rather extraordinary thing to do but this Star Wars game was my very first game here at The Syndicate and my actions in this game have (by some players) been misinterpreted and manipulated to the detriment of performance in games I've played since. I feel it is important then that I be given the opportunity to address this matter so that players in this game understand my side of this story and can make an informed decision on my historical actions.

It has been alleged that I left this game as a direct consequence of my (Mafia) alignment. I reject this assertion totally. I withdrew from this game at the beginning of Day 6 and other than voting for MacDougall, did not post at all from the beginning of that Day phase. What wasn't apparent to the general player population was that I had received a PM from our game Host at the end of Night 5 to the effect:

Epignosis wrote:You have been spit on and afflicted by madness by crumb. You may not mention the madness and you must vote for Mac for the duration of tomorrow. You may also not mention or quote any player that isn't mac or you will die.

At the time of my departure from this game, I was under heavy suspicion from a number of players and together with the responsibility I felt to my team in that game and other external, non-game related matters, I felt (at the time) that this direction placed me in an intolerable position where I could no longer adequately defend myself and I departed from the game immediately after fulfilling the requirements of that Host direction. I accept that my actions in that regard were wrong, it was immature and that it was not responsible. Under the circumstances that prevailed at that time however, fueled by intense frustration, I felt as though I had little option than to do what I did. The TRUTH of this matter IS that I was motivated by frustration and would (regrettably) very likely have left the game at that point IRRESPECTIVE OF MY ALIGNMENT.

Looking back I do regret my actions on that occasion (as described above) and I trust anyone who reads this will not judge me harshly for them.

a2thezebra wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:I accept now that the weight of evidence against Simon appears to be considerable. I have said previously however that I would not vote for him and for better or worse I will remain true to my word. I'm placing my vote this phase on someone I find highly suspicious for their actions towards the end of the last Day phase - Nijuukyugou

More from me on this shortly...

a2thezebra wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
Golden wrote:Not to mention the fact that until this game zebra and I haven't managed to have one where we have actively trusted each other at all.
So I guess then I have to ask you the question - are you prepared to keep your mind open on me even just a little?
I think I may have been too open-minded about you until fairly recently, Glorfindel.

And what, pray tell do you mean by that my friend?

Golden wrote:Not to mention the fact that until this game zebra and I haven't managed to have one where we have actively trusted each other at all.

So I guess then I have to ask you the question - are you prepared to keep your mind open on me even just a little?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I need to vote pronto, it seems.

I really need to do some digging and ISOing before I can properly adjust my rainbow list, so... I'm sticking with a vote for my most recently expressed top mafia read, Glorfindel. Not that it matters for the result, but in spirit.

OK, MP, Golden, Mac, Zeb and the rest of you... sure, I could spend my time on some analysis, etc. but at this point, please explain to me what exactly would be the point. Just like Simon, you've already made up your minds about me and let's face the facts - because you're unwilling to seriously consider a vote on anyone inside your little clique, I'd pretty much be wasting my time as will you while you blissfully skip down the path to oblivion next day phase on another fanciful quest while the Mafia sit back and laugh at you all...

Golden wrote:Oh, so it is on me that we haven't caught the empire, is it, mac?

If we want to catch the bad guys, it must be done by me... no-one else can do it...

If you want to find the empire, I know that you are also plenty capable of supatown.

(My best guesses for members of the empire - glorfindel and eloh).

My primary effort goes to World Reborn because it is in end game, and all up, across everything I'm doing... I will not be as present as would be ideal from now until after Christmas. I am super busy. There is a reason I was the last man on to sign ups, and why I've said I won't be signing up for any more for a while.

BC tried to make out like my relative quietness was a sign of my baddiness. Go back and read my defence to that. It would serve you well now.

linki @Mac - not every egg needs to broken on the same day. Take RYM 87. Two baddie teams in that one. No hint of who the second baddie team was until the first one was gone. First day of looking for the new team... hole blown straight in the side. The point is, every day we lynch a baddie is a good day. I don't feel the need to bust my nut trying to find a baddie I'm not even going to lynch today.

As this is my first (and in all likelihood last) game here I've deliberately stood on the sidelines so far this game trying to find my bearings amongst you all in this unfamiliar community and now feel compelled to make the following observation:

I'm frankly appalled at the exchange that started last night as a consequence of this post. There is absolutely no question that there is little if any objective analysis being undertaken by most people playing this game. Certainly, everyone is 'coasting' on the Simon bandwagon and I for one am not so naive or stupid to think for a second that sooner or later (although sadly probably sooner

) I will fall victim to this approach that I've seen displayed throughout the game. It seems to me that the majority of the players in this game just seem to be taking the easy way out all the time - eliminate the low posters, the strangers... Don't be concerned about the players who barely participate and then just drop of the planet (Russtifinko). Ignore people like Nijuukyoguo who (suspiciously in my view) just drop in out of nowhere to post a vote on me just after someone with an equally sparse voting record this game had just done the same thing...

And YOU Golden - you criticise everyone for sheeping and yet you nominate me as one of your prime candidates for lynching based on your "guess"? I'd have frankly expected more from a player of your reputation and obvious calibre. From an outsider's perspective, I continue to see an extraordinary lack of willingness on behalf of a lot of you to actively consider the potential guilt of players within your own clique and that myopia could very easily cost us this game.

My apologies if anyone takes offence at anything I've said above but please understand the frustration I am feeling with what I see happening here...

Golden wrote:In b4 NZ jokes about how I should be intimately familiar with what a sheep is.

Damn!

OT: I don't consider the two terms synonymous at all. In my opinion one can bandwagon legitimately if they sincerely believe that they have justification that in at least their own mind is based on some kind of logic or intuition. Sheeping is bandwagonning without any justification.

Golden wrote:

Sheep (verb): voting blindly with the prevailing general opinion without recourse to reason, argument or rationale
- Mafia Dictionary according to Glorfindel. 2016 Version.

Canucklehead wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:I accept now that the weight of evidence against Simon appears to be considerable. I have said previously however that I would not vote for him and for better or worse I will remain true to my word. I'm placing my vote this phase on someone I find highly suspicious for their actions towards the end of the last Day phase - Nijuukyugou

More from me on this shortly...
So you agree that Simon looks very bad, but refuse to vote for him because.....principles? Gah. Dammit Glorfindel, I keep wanting not to suspect you because I'm worried that my suspicion of you is just because you're super nice and I'm a crabby bitch (see also: me suspecting Juliets in every game ever).....but then you do things like this and I'm back to thinking you're a baddie.
Sigh.

If you are asking me to make a choice my friend between my principles and your perception of my guilt or otherwise, I'll be going with my principles EVERY SINGLE TIME! One thing about me that I'm afraid you will now never have the opportunity to learn about me is that I seldom if ever, sheep. Personally, it almost never turns out well for me and it makes me extremely uneasy being around people that do (sheep, that is...).

I accept now that the weight of evidence against Simon appears to be considerable. I have said previously however that I would not vote for him and for better or worse I will remain true to my word. I'm placing my vote this phase on someone I find highly suspicious for their actions towards the end of the last Day phase - Nijuukyugou

More from me on this shortly...

MacDougall wrote:Pull please sire.

Glorfindel can I have a loan please?

You strike me as a fair-minded individual - I'd certainly consider such an arrangement if it were possible...

Elohcin wrote:PULL

You were very kind to me earlier... best of luck

Epignosis wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:PULL

Win: 60 credits

Thank you so much!

PULL please...

sig wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:Nobody wants my vote in this poll? Have I become THAT much of a pariah amongst you all?

On top of that, a number of you have now described me as 'disingenuous'. The dictionary meaning of that word is "not candid or sincere, typically pretending that one knows less about something than one really does". And that isn't insulting? I'm really starting to look forward more and more to the end of this game...
See this post is pingy to be, but either way I'll take your vote Glorfindel it will make me more likely to win the poll.

Whatevs... you get my vote.

Nobody wants my vote in this poll? Have I become THAT much of a pariah amongst you all?

On top of that, a number of you have now described me as 'disingenuous'. The dictionary meaning of that word is "not candid or sincere, typically pretending that one knows less about something than one really does". And that isn't insulting? I'm really starting to look forward more and more to the end of this game...

Canucklehead wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
nijuukyugou wrote:Oh god, I lost track of time this weekend and it has been relaxing, although busy as crap, and I hope to god I'm not last to vote if this is the 'splodey planet (I completely forgot about that dynamic this afternoon - doh!). I read the last five pages but have failed to go back and really look at what I meant to before I made my "placeholder" post. Enrique's got a crapload of votes and supposedly a poisoning. Last I knew of him, he sounded genuine, but something seems to have turned several against him, which I'm going to imagine is for very good reason with this much against him. I'd like to take more time to read back and figure it out.

So, since that seems to be a done deal, I'll vote where my mind was last when I had time to really think and put my thoughts out in a logical fashion (AKA no work to worry about :P ) : Glorfindel was on my list after bcornett, so while I know this particular vote won't do anything as far as lynching, it'll at least force me to think about my vote later and defend if necessary and go back and read, if that makes any sense. It makes sense in my head, and that's all that counts for now.
15 posts this entire game and within hours of another dismal poster (Canucklehead) and you're coming after me? I smell a rather prodigious rodent...
What's with the insults, dude? That's actually not cool.

It was in no way an insult, my friend but I apologise unreservedly if you took offence at my remark (which it appears rather obviously that you did

) My phrase 'prodigious rodent' was a euphamistic reference to 'smelling a rat' that was meant in direct reference to what I am suspecting is some kind of conspiracy against me (for what reason I can't fathom). My comment realted DIRECTLY to the conclusion I drew from having two players that have been borderline invisible all game suddenly appearing out of nowhere throwing shade at me...

I am very sorry if you took offense - I'd NEVER do such a thing intentionally and would frankly cease my involvement in this game now than to have anyone of you think I would stoop to that sort of thing...

sig wrote:BAM
I've been tunneling on him since day 1 so glad I was right.

This explains his frustration since he was voted for a connection he didn't know about. So we have two Hutts left I think Roxy attempting to cfd is slightly suspicious, but I also think this gives some more credence to Simon being on the Hutt team. If this is the case I'm not sure Simon/Roxy are on the same team. Thoughts on this?

Enrique you had me fooled once or twice and played a great game looking forward to playing more games with you in the future

OK, now I just feel foolish for giving Enrique the benefit of the doubt

As you say Sig, I guess that's case closed on Simon, the poor kid

nijuukyugou wrote:Oh god, I lost track of time this weekend and it has been relaxing, although busy as crap, and I hope to god I'm not last to vote if this is the 'splodey planet (I completely forgot about that dynamic this afternoon - doh!). I read the last five pages but have failed to go back and really look at what I meant to before I made my "placeholder" post. Enrique's got a crapload of votes and supposedly a poisoning. Last I knew of him, he sounded genuine, but something seems to have turned several against him, which I'm going to imagine is for very good reason with this much against him. I'd like to take more time to read back and figure it out.

So, since that seems to be a done deal, I'll vote where my mind was last when I had time to really think and put my thoughts out in a logical fashion (AKA no work to worry about :P ) : Glorfindel was on my list after bcornett, so while I know this particular vote won't do anything as far as lynching, it'll at least force me to think about my vote later and defend if necessary and go back and read, if that makes any sense. It makes sense in my head, and that's all that counts for now.

15 posts this entire game and within hours of another dismal poster (Canucklehead) and you're coming after me? I smell a rather prodigious rodent...

I've voted Russ the last few phases and I won't change that now. For Golden (or whoever it was that asked me about who it was that was responsible for the distraction/diversion that is what I perceive to be the Enrique bandwagon) I don't know - I suppose you'll need to look at those players who have agitated so strongly for his lynching...?

a2thezebra wrote:Canucklehead did not say that she wants to lynch you.

Canucklehead wrote:It doesn't look like a glorfindel lynch is possible today, and that's cool because I'd rather get a hutt today anyway...

No, of course not, that doesn't sound threatening at all...

Elohcin wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
sig wrote:Glorfindel what do you think of Enrique/Simon who do you plan to vote for?
To be quite frank, my friend - I'd not really considered voting for either of them... I remain unconvinced of the case against Enrique and from what I've read of his posts, I really can't see him being Mafia (this should not be news to you as I'm certain I've said this before). As for Simon, I'd agree that the behaviour you describe could be interpreted as suspicious. Mind you, it would look a damn sight MORE suspicious had it occurred later in the game and that's where I think I am right now - do you REALLY think that he would've done that (were he Mafia) knowing how suspicious it would look (my apologies for the WIFOM there )? I also read something about Simon being eight years old - Glorfindel of Rivendell, One of the mighty Firstborn doesn't lynch eight year olds...

And let me return to my earlier nominee Russtfinko, whom many of you considered suspicious earlier in the game...
Russtifinko wrote:I do plan to be fully involved after the thanksgiving break. Sorry once again
This was his second to last post. Isn't Thanksgiving well and truly over days ago and where is he?
I am in no way defending Russ. I need to reread him to see where I stand with him, however, Thanksgiving break would most likely mean Thursday-Sunday. If he traveled for Thanksgiving, it is likely he stayed with family until today and then is traveling back to wherever he came from.

Thank you my friend for clarifying that for me - it is very kind of you (I clearly have zero knowledge of this particular custom in the US so I appreciate the tip). I'll take that into consideration for my vote today.

Canucklehead wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I don't see how that post is so damning. Could you explain?
It's just so over-the-top! The whole "if that is the case, I'll have a very hard time being mafia on this site in the future, you know, like not right now because I am absolutely not mafia right now as you can see from the veerrrry casual way I used the future tense to discuss the possibility of me being mafia which indicates that clearly I am not currently mafia and my sensitivities are affronted that you would think so!" epilogue is a little of the gentleman doth protest too much, ya know?
It doesn't look like a glorfindel lynch is possible today, and that's cool because I'd rather get a hutt today anyway (and I don't think glorfindel is connected to bcornett, or he's a least less likely to be a hutt than Simon), but this post has really raised my proverbial eyebrow.

You HAVE to be having a lend of me, my friend... You come out of nowhere (I'd hardly be considered a prolific poster but you have less than half the posts this game that I do) and you latch onto this innocuous remark that I made in banter with Zeb and now yo want to lynch me??? May I ask, did you come up with this little gem all on your own? A lot of the suspicions that have been raised against me previously (I believe) have been from good (but misguided) players and to which I must bear some level of responsibility (low posting, etc.) but THIS doesn't sound at all innocent and misguided to me...

MacDougall wrote:Do you think that him being absent in and of itself makes him suspicious Glorfindel?

Well, Mac - I don't think it helps his cause. The other thing (and I hope I'm wrong) is that I just get this feeling that the whole Enrique thing is a distraction whether by design or what, I don't know. Maybe I'm just dreadful at reading people but I don't think I am. From reading his posts, I think to lynch him is a mistake and if I'm correct, I trust at least it won't be a costly one

sig wrote:Glorfindel what do you think of Enrique/Simon who do you plan to vote for?

To be quite frank, my friend - I'd not really considered voting for either of them... I remain unconvinced of the case against Enrique and from what I've read of his posts, I really can't see him being Mafia (this should not be news to you as I'm certain I've said this before). As for Simon, I'd agree that the behaviour you describe could be interpreted as suspicious. Mind you, it would look a damn sight MORE suspicious had it occurred later in the game and that's where I think I am right now - do you REALLY think that he would've done that (were he Mafia) knowing how suspicious it would look (my apologies for the WIFOM there

)? I also read something about Simon being eight years old - Glorfindel of Rivendell, One of the mighty Firstborn doesn't lynch eight year olds...

And let me return to my earlier nominee Russtfinko, whom many of you considered suspicious earlier in the game...

Russtifinko wrote:I do plan to be fully involved after the thanksgiving break. Sorry once again

This was his second to last post. Isn't Thanksgiving well and truly over days ago and where is he?

Elohcin wrote:I have not really been present much for the past 48 hours as I have been preparing for my daughter's birthday party. YES, I spend a lot of time and effort for my children's parties. No, I don;t care that it makes me a little insane Epi. You still got yours . ANYWAY! I am pretty much back and see that most others have been absent as well. Even those who have replaced in seem to be awol. Matt F, where are you? Who else was it that replaced in? FWIW I think the odds of Enri being bad are slim. I am going to spent some time looking at people tomorrow. I have to sleep, then go to church, work out (I've neglected that too with birthday celebration craziness), and then I can focus on Mafia. TTFN.

Mafia games aside, you sound like such a lovely person - I'm genuinely very pleased to make your aquaintance

a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote:@glorf - I've been down that rabbit hole many times. The reality is that it could be so many things that analysis rarely helps. For instance:

Your theory - a team of high posters who don't want to end up conspicuous... but also
A team or some individuals who aren't a fan of people that are not playing a lot
A team that has an idea of Savage's role and wants it out
A team that just wants to play with our minds by taking out someone unexpected
A team trying to take out someone they doubt would be protected

Didn't the same team have their kill fail or miss last time? Or was that the Hutts? If it was the empire, it could simply be that they don't want to miss again.
It was the empire, but I think the underlined reason is the most likely.

Zeb, if you are seriously suggesting to me that any Mafia team would prefer to NK a player because of a perceived lack of involvement in the game over an experienced operator that represents a clear threat to the team, I can only presume that I'd have a very poor future here at this site in Mafia roles...

Golden wrote:@glorf - I've been down that rabbit hole many times. The reality is that it could be so many things that analysis rarely helps. For instance:

Your theory - a team of high posters who don't want to end up conspicuous... but also
A team or some individuals who aren't a fan of people that are not playing a lot
A team that has an idea of Savage's role and wants it out
A team that just wants to play with our minds by taking out someone unexpected
A team trying to take out someone they doubt would be protected

Didn't the same team have their kill fail or miss last time? Or was that the Hutts? If it was the empire, it could simply be that they don't want to miss again.

I suppose looking at it like that my friend, you're probably right. I was simply surmising based on an experience I'd had where the Mafia team were all prominent and strong players. As the game went on and the body count of low posters/newbies piled up, it was increasingly difficult for the Mafia team to remain inconspicuous. Might potentially be worthy of consideration a the game progresses.

MacDougall wrote:Cool choice of target bad guys. Taking out lurkers for us. Benevolent bad guys.

I'm going to fumble a little with this but does anyone else find Savage to be more than a little odd as a choice for the Night Kill at this point of the game? I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to eliminate one of the better players in this game? Surely any Mafia team worth their salt would do that? Unless...

Glorfindel wrote:Shall I assume that now that we have only five players from the poll whose names are left bolded (A2TheZebra, Enrique, Golden, Metalmarsh89 and MovingPictures07) that they will be the recipients of whatever it was that this poll is for? Also a little confused as to why MacDougall isn't bolded when he has more votes than some of those players (above) that aren't? In any case, best of luck guys!

Oops! Scratch that! Sorry, I just woke up...

Shall I assume that now that we have only five players from the poll whose names are left bolded (A2TheZebra, Enrique, Golden, Metalmarsh89 and MovingPictures07) that they will be the recipients of whatever it was that this poll is for? Also a little confused as to why MacDougall isn't bolded when he has more votes than some of those players (above) that aren't? In any case, best of luck guys!

I just wanted to thank Dr Wilgy for my single vote in this evening phase's poll. Your kindness is overwhelming

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm sorry Glorfindel, if I had one more vote, I would give it to you since you don't have one yet.

Thank you my friend, I appreciate the sentiment very much. At the end of the day though, I accept that my fate (or that of any individual) in a game like this is not important. There are bigger things at stake here and I've played enough of these games to appreciate that.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Night 3 MP rainbow reads list:

a2thezebra
Golden -- (moved up 1)
Metalmarsh89 -- (moved up 1)
nijuukyugou -- (moved up 2)

MacDougall

Black Rock
Canucklehead -- (moved down 1)
Dom
Russtifinko -- (moved up 2)
sig
Sorsha

Bass_the_Clever 2.0 (Mishimeals)
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Matt F 2.0 (Banana)
Savage
TheFloyd73

Bubbles -- (moved down 1)
Elohcin -- (moved down 1)
Luke11646 -- (moved down 1)
Roxy
Simon -- (moved down 2)

Enrique -- (moved down 1)
Glorfindel

Players are arranged alphabetically within groups.

Here are my new thoughts considering quick/gut reactions to bcornett24's flip. These are subject to change pending MM's interactions investigations as well as my own and others' hunting between now and end of Day 4.

I think Golden looks pretty good, considering his pursuit of bcornett and vice versa. I don't see that as mafia distancing. I agree with Mac that Blooper/ninja looks solid after this flip as well. Metalmarsh cast a decisive vote that sunk bcornett, hence his rise as well.

While Mac's theory is interesting, I am not coming to that conclusion. Despite zebra's thoughts on the matter as well, I conclude that the zebra votes were suspicious, and I have lowered Bubbles and Elohcin appropriately because I don't trust either of their intentions in casting those votes. Simon has moved down as well.

I have a potential bad look on Luke due to his throwaway vote on Enrique, but it could be a potentially good luck given Enrique's flip... since we don't know that yet, however, I've nonetheless moved Luke down until he can contribute his thought process more substantively in thread.

Between bcornett24's thoughts on Russ (don't see this as mafia distancing), as well as Glorfindel's (who I think latched onto some heat headed Russ's way), I'm willing to suspend my suspicion that way, pending Russ's future contributions.

Enrique looks pretty damning given some of the interactions uncovered so far, and his defense of bcornett toward the end of the lynch definitely reads like a desperate teammate.

My suspicion of Glorfindel has not alleviated at all because he hasn't provided any reason for it to; I don't believe his overreactive behavior, and his only suspicion (Russ) is convenient and no longer logical given recent events. I see no townie motivation for his lack of hunt, and bcornett's flip does not affect my previous read (from what I can recall, without digging into ISOs).

I'm having the most trouble reading Black Rock, DFaraday, Dom, DrWilgy, sig, Savage, Sorsha, TheFloyd73, and the recently replaced 2.0's. I think my categorization of them is still most appropriate though. No reason for me to move MacDougall at this time. Same with Roxy, despite Golden's read on her, but I need to ISO her to get a better feel of her contributions (or lack thereof).

I voted my top 5 town reads in this poll, in the event that it is a rewards poll.

Like I said before, I have a busy couple of weeks ahead of me, until December 10th. Last week of classes next week... then Final Exams that I have to take and grade. So my contributions will likely drop going forward, but I'll try my best.

Have a great Holiday, everyone!

It is apparent to me that you have made up your mind my friend so I accept that there is little that I can do to change that.

As I said in an earlier post, I believe that this voting thing is for a good purpose. To that end, I also believe it makes sense that for the good of our team our best players should be the ones that should receive my vote. Accordingly, I'm voting for Golden, Zebra, MP, MetalMarsh and yes, Enrique. I know that a lot of you think he's guilty but there's something there that I can't quite put my finger on that tells me me he's being used as a scapegoat for some reason... And yes, I know I've voted for a number of players who have been hounding me across the star system but I still think it's imperative that they be given every advantage (yes, even if their judgement is occasionally rubbish

)

a2thezebra wrote:Indie is short for "Independent" role, meaning a player(s) that is only aligned with themselves, neither town, nor scum. So in this case we've already lynched the primary indie (Bobba Fett) but there also the small indie factions, the Tusken Raiders and Jawas.

Thank you Zebra, that is very kind of you. Much appreciated.

This voting thing - I suspect it's for something good - why else wouldn't you be able to vote for yourself? That being the case, it would make sense to vote for the best players on our team in my opinion...

sig wrote:Yeah I don't wanna vote for myself if something bad will happen to me.

I find Enrique saying I was scum to be interesting especially since he said earlier he didn't think I was scum. This is slightly pingy.
Also good job on Bcornett two of his teammates knew who he was, and one didn't.
Welcome back Matt/Bass are you two scum this time around?

See, this is starting to sound a little forced to me... Still, the next Day phase is a long way off. And you needn't worry my friend - as I said earlier, I'm not about to go around voting off people I believe to be misguided Town just because they vote for me.

I apologise for sounding like a moron for asking this, but can someone please explain to me exactly what an Indie role' is? I've heard the term bandied around a few times but it is not one with which I am familiar...

Sorsha wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Sorsha wrote:RIH Jabba!

What are we voting for in this poll?
You can vote for up to 5 people.
For what point?

Are we killing 5 people? Giving 5 people presents?

Yes, so much this...

I want to apologise too for having missed the vote this last Day phase. In too many games I'd care to remember, I've NEVER, ONCE missed a vote before. I was actually working on the understanding that I had another 10 minutes to vote while I was working on my response to Sig's interrogation... In any case, I apologise unreservedly to you our hosts and all the other players who did the right thing - I'm sincerely sorry...

MovingPictures07 wrote:Glorfindel, what else do you have to say to the accusation that you've been defending yourself too much but not hunting enough?

Not much. The accusation when looked at objectively is clearly justified. I have clearly not spent the time and effort in 'hunting' as I should have at this point. I could point out that this is partly due to the fact that I have pracitically no point of reference for the behaviour of any player in this game but I won't bother. My judgements and my votes have been based on the only thing upon which I have to rely at this point - gut instinct. I believe that it's served me well so far although you and others obviously dispute that...

On that point, I still remain highly suspicious of Russtifinko (as I have said for some considerable time) and that is again where my vote will lie today.

@Zebra - please don't be concerned about my reaction to you in my post last night - my views and opinions have not changed but as I keep saying, that is my issue to deal with and shouldn't influence in any way your vote.

sig wrote:I believe the Grand Moff's role works that whoever votes last regardless of which planet they picked will die.
DrWilgy wrote:Just browsing recent. Still not caught up so these reads are probably outdated. The struggle is real.
-I'm tone reading you as scum Sig.
-Roxy I read as scum, but I have noticed that I accidentally and incorrectly read her a scummy quite often.
-I'm intrigued by DFaraday.
-Mac I'm reading as civ. He is completely different than what he was in Talking Heads.
Funnily enough I'm reading you as scum also, which is why I'm trying to get more posts out of you so you just don't glide to end game. I wonder are you just reading me as scum since I voiced suspicion of you?

I've only played a few games with Glor, but a few of his posts have just been weird. Not something I would pursue right know but something that I think is worth pointing out.
@Glorfindel my question was about a specific post of yours were you mentioned mafia guilt here is the quote it isn't much of a question but seeing how you didn't answer it I was pinged and I really do want an answer.

sig wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:I've got to tell you guys, I feel so far out of my depth right now. From my limited experience, what passes for evidence this early on in Mafia games is often little more than a combination of bravado and overactive imagination. All I can see is some particularly harsh accusations being thrown around by some VERY enthusiastic players. I have been around long enough not to mistake aggressiveness in these games with Mafia guilt so a couple of feuding prominent players (at this stage of the game) doesn't convince me that one is necessarily Mafia. From what I've read, Golden seems to make a lot of sense to me
Don't be so humble Glorfindel you've played a good amount of mafia games I doubt you only have limited experience. Also what do you mean by Mafia guilt?

It's really not that hard to understand Sig. I was merely making reference to the fact that just because someone is aggressive generally (or toward me specifically) doesn't NECESSARILY equate to them being Mafia. MP and Zebra are cases in point. Their aggression has been obvious but even though they appear hell bent on my lynching, I don't believe either of them to be Mafia (just sadly misguided). Having said that, the level of aggression displayed is in some cases inappropriate but again, that is my problem and no one elses.

Golden wrote:(Glorfindel - don't expect this Kiwi to have your back normally, ok? You are still an Aussie. I'm making an exception in the circumstances. )

I appreciate the consideration my friend

You seem like a pretty genuine person and I do honestly respect that a lot (irrespective of your role in this game).

Enrique wrote:Glorf I kinda get the feeling that you're just trusting whoever is nice to you at any given time. Zebra is demanding something from you because this is a game and she thinks that will help her play it better. It's no big deal, and it really shouldn't be getting in the way of your judgement.

To an extent, Enrique - I suppose you are right, I probably tend to see people who aren't obnoxious in a skightly better light. Personally, I see no value in a list that and never have. People have asked me for some of my reads of my fellow players and I've done my best to comply with as constructive an analysis as I am able to muster. I think you or someone else needs to explain how a list of players I pull out of thin air is likely to help Zebra or anyone else play this game any better...? In any case, I stand by my comments in my last post.

@MetalMarsh: I kinda looked at it this way - Enrique believed that Russ was Mafia (of some colour) a lot of people suspected Enrique. My reasoning (albeit potentially flawed) was that if we eliminated Russtifinko (who, has as we continue to see, has contributed far less than even I to this game) and he turned out to be Mafia, that would on the balance of probability suggest that Enrique was Town. At this point however, I feel more convinced than ever of Russtifinko's guilt on his merits.

a2thezebra wrote:And for the record regarding that rainbow reads list I want, I'm not telling you what to do and I'm not talking down to you, as a few have accused me of doing earlier. I'm just telling you what I think you should do if you have any interest of convincing me (and probably others as well) that you are town.

Let me get this straight - you demand a 'rainbow list' from me after what is one of the worst instances of ridicule and some of the most threatening tone that I've ever seen anyone subjected to and you reckon you're neither telling me what to do or talking down to me? Let me give you a tip - you need to take a good long hard look at yourself my friend.

In all the games I have played at other sites, I've not once EVER compiled a 'rainbow list' and I'm not about to start now. I'm not going to commit myself to saying anyone is Town at this point as (apart from the POSSIBLE exceptions of Sig and Enrique) I don't trust a single one of you. I don't really care less what you think of me, but you make an absolute mockery of everything I've been told about this site and at this point, you won't be needing to worry about me in any game here in the future if this is what passes for objective analysis on this site. Up until now I was pretty solidly convinced you were Town. Now I don't really care.

@Metalmarsh: Thank you for all the work you put into that ISO read on me. I suppose I should be grateful you considered me worth the time you took to do that... I can't say it wasn't entertaining - you literally had me in fits of laughter with your analysis of my emoticons

I've not seen that anywhere before and I can't help but think we're taking this a little too seriously if we use that as evidence to lynch someone!

As for Enrique, I don't know - I could easily be wrong. In my view his posts seem genuine, he posts a lot and his assertions and opinions seem (in my view) to suggest that they are the product of some consideration of players, their comments etc. I personally felt uncomfortable by the way his wagon built up momentum so quickly at the end of the last Day phase to the point where it appeared more opportunistic than anything else. I have a natural tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt and I'm also kinda reserved I guess so this is probably reflected (as you so eloquently) in my apparent reluctance to engage with a whole bunch of people I don't know). I accept that this problem lies squarely with me so I'm not blaming you if you find me suspicous as a result.

I'd also like to take issue with your criticism of my vote on Russtifinko. He's got less than half the posts I do, and I'M the one that's suspicious for allegedly lurking? REALLY?

MovingPictures07 wrote:hello sockface!! I am around... who do yout hink ois a bad guy?

WELL i THINk glorfindel may be bad also sig

Strongest argument I've seen yet that excessive alcohol consumpition and sound deductive reasoning don't mix...

Enrique wrote:
Golden wrote:I thought we had lynched Matt F, but I think Enrique is his ghost!

I think Enrique is sincere and I'm not really as suspicious of him any more as I was yesterday. I think his responses have made sense and seemed genuine. However, I'm not going to entertain this notion of the dots he has put together at all. Enrique, you may believe it all you like, but I don't think you are right about it.
It's not like I can be sure either, but I prefer working based on those dots than being in the dark completely. I think the Tuskan Rider poison secret role is about the best explanation as to how that could happen especially on Night 1 before the Jawas started selling their shit. I don't think Russ is up to any good either, which has been a thing since before I got poisoned. So 2 and 2 together, and this is me hoping to get a straight answer.

@Glor- Chill. I appreciate your vote and all but that comment immediately stuck out to me. Vanilly is one of my earliest Mafia memories (that must've been like what, early 2012?) and I think it's a funny mistake for rookie or more lackadaisical players to make. idk what you are, but I'm pretty sure the only completely vanilla role in this game is the Stormtrooper (which would be a silly role to claim..). I guess the concept of a "power role" is vague enough that I can get an idea of what you mean.

As a general and I guess more personal note, something came up and I haven't been feeling very well today. I don't know if I'll be much better tomorrow, but I don't think it's a good idea to be putting a lot of energy into Mafia right now. I do it anyway because you know I love it. Just know I may not be thinking completely straight and showing a lot less patience than usual. (If that even means anything. I'm having to rewrite my sentences a few times to make sure they make sense and I just can't think too hard, especially in English.)

OK, I get it now... Where I come from, traditionally only a small selection of the game roles are ever posted at the beginning of the games thread (Sig can verify that). I only briefly perused that list at the start of the game working under that assumption - hence my recollection of having seen Admiral Ackbar and remembering that he had some ability that I considered significant. I'd assumed that there would have been a considerable number of vanilla type roles for this game. My apologies for not paying closer attention there and I take back what I said about you Enrique - it was a stupid misunderstanding (on my part) and I trust we can let bygones be bygones on that one?

@a2thezebra: Well, I'm kinda convinced Enrique is telling the truth. Maybe I'm just being naive but I just can't see him being anything other than Town. I too am suspicious of Russtifinko and at this stage, I expect that my vote may end up back there this Day phase. Early on in this game, I was 100% convinced Sig was Town but after his bizarre post accusing me of not answering questions that he doesn't appear to have asked I'm starting to have some doubts. Outside of this game, he's a really great guy so I'm tending to strongly give him the benefit of the doubt. It really is hard when we have such a large number of players that don't appear to have even appeared in this game (they don't even vote

). Same with Golden actually - really liked him for Town at the beginning of the game - it seems the deeper we get into this game, the more cloudy and dubious the whole thing appears...

Enrique wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Enrique wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Enrique wrote:I NEVER said anything like "I'm good because I'm poisoned." Sig is not just equally manipulative of the facts, but completely redundant. He's especially good at pointing out options THAT EVERYONE KNOWS ALREADY. Seriously. Look over his post history. He does it over and over and over again.
I guess I stand corrected? It sure as suit seemed like you were trying to make it appear as if you being poisoned made you look better (and it seemed to work on your teamma-I mean, Elohcin), but okay. My point still stands that you are not helping yourself by posting nothing that isn't related to you or any scumhunting that includes some honest, original input.
Which is a bullshit point on itself? I'm talking about myself a lot because I've happened to be relevant a lot of the time, but uh yes I consider myself very much a part of the thread on other fronts.
Could you elaborate on how exactly you are a part of the thread on other fronts?
like shit what am i even supposed to say. I contribute where I can, form a part of discussion, I don't fucking know what you want from me. I play a certain way and why you think you know it and why you think you can expect something different from me I have no clue. I'm pretty much the only one still giving a shit about Russ, found a possible connection to MP, a possible slip by Glorfindel, speculated about the secret roles, expressed opinions on who I trust and who I don't, what posts I believe and which I don't. I have no idea what answer you're looking for, and you don't even have to agree with anything, but don't try to minimize my efforts like I'm not offering more than most of the playing roster right now. I'm sorry if I'm not good enough for you.

Quite a piece of work aren't you, Enrique? If I'd voted for YOU, you'd very likely be toast by now. But no, I took you at your word and instead voted for Russ in (an apparently misguided attempt) to confirm your innocence. And what do I get in return? You throwing shade at me for a remark that I made (entirely valid in my view) about the loss to our team of Admiral Ackbar. I certainly hope that for your sake, you never end up in a situation again where you requie my support for your survial after this

And I reiterate my comment from my last post - we lost a player with a useful ability (in my view a power role in comparison to our vanilla roles) for whom I at least was not so misguided as to have voted. My point being that for the second consecutive Day phase my vote has been competent and hell, if nothing else, at least I just VOTED which is more than I can say for some players here

Enrique wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Not a good result. RIP Bass.

I've skimmed quickly. Don't have time for a detailed catchup this morning.

For now, I have the following thoughts:

1) Glorfindel, you're suspicious based on tone as well as the lack of thoughts you espew. Also, your Day 2 vote stinks
You call that a thought? A comedy routine more likely. Just how pray tell is my tone suspicious? And MY Day 2 vote stinks? At least I made one which is more than I can say for a lot of players this game and yet you target me? Again? My vote wasn't on one of our power roles nor was it on what is looking to me like an increasingly Town-looking Enrique... I expect we'll find out soon enough then. You don't know that Russtifinko isn't non-Town (whatever they're called) so for you to criticise my vote just makes you look like you're grasping at straws and pretty transparently at that...
What does it mean? At first the only logical explanation I could think of was "the people up for lynch," but then you mentioned me separately so I'm without a clue again. What's a power role? How do you know who is and isn't one?

I'm sorry, I may be confused but wasn't the victim of yesterday's lynching (Admiral Ackbar) a power role? I thought I read somewhere that it was?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Not a good result. RIP Bass.

I've skimmed quickly. Don't have time for a detailed catchup this morning.

For now, I have the following thoughts:

1) Glorfindel, you're suspicious based on tone as well as the lack of thoughts you espew. Also, your Day 2 vote stinks

You call that a thought? A comedy routine more likely. Just how pray tell is my tone suspicious? And MY Day 2 vote stinks? At least I made one which is more than I can say for a lot of players this game and yet you target me? Again? My vote wasn't on one of our power roles nor was it on what is looking to me like an increasingly Town-looking Enrique... I expect we'll find out soon enough then. You don't know that Russtifinko isn't non-Town (whatever they're called) so for you to criticise my vote just makes you look like you're grasping at straws and pretty transparently at that...

sig wrote:I'm not liking Glorfindels post right know, he keeps referring to himself as a new player, while he is new to this website he isn't new to mafia at all. He also never answered my question.
@Glor please answer my question your posts are starting to make me uncomfortably.

I will once again be voting for enrique I believe he is scum, his posts today has just reinforced this.
enrique

I'm sorry, I'm not with you at all on this one? I never said I was new to Mafia - that is in truth an entirely different thing to being unfamiliar with the way it works and the people here. I honestly don't understand what is so hard to understand about that

As for your 'question', what question? I had a look back and I couldn't see any question you addressed to me directly in any of your recent posts...

OK, this is ridiculous. I'm totally torn here. I don't feel remotely comfortable voting for someone that I don't feel is conclusively Mafia but again, I'm left with no time. I'm going to vote for Russtifinko if for no other reason that he doesn't appear (to me) to be an influential player here and his alignment might reveal something conclusive in respect of the whole MP/Enrique mess...

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