The Syndicate

fuckin gbite the bullet

three way tie or not?

(though plaese dont tie thats 2/3 likely town death)

youre telling me to vote evenstar? while she has had sketchy points in and out all game, her play today alone has superceded yours Radishes

and no i would've had 3 minutes left not 1

[mention]Master Radishes[/mention] [mention]Evenstar[/mention] there ya go

Immediately off the bad

- kill suggestion
-weird lylo strategy

Frankly, I don't really want to argue motives, becuse that's inherently a sea of wine. Nonetheless, I'll try and engage your points.

first big post replying to me, which is odd considering all the voting analysis which is in itself wine. We've had a lot of wine today. I am a contributor no doubt, but I dont know how much evenstar actually didnt want to argue motives only to make a couple big posts regarding motives and the night kill. which she seems to think will be a big part in her problem solving come later in the day

-the confusion on who voted where due to my shortcomings is not anything important, but insightful. Also why would scum evenstar keep a record of the votes? As mafia i personally wouldnt care, regardless, moving on.

You're town because you're the quiet obvious mislynch bait in a final 3.

Radishes is town because Rabbit and Pawn both read him town, and then Pawn got killed.

You're scum because all your major contributions are information collection, not analysis.

Radishes is scum because... in Pawn-lynch world, because he's not dead. In Pawn-kill world, because he's a much more plausible partner to Epi than you.

- [sprityo] is scum because you made a big show of "oh no I'm getting lynched" at the end of yesterday, and now you're confidently assuring me that you were never in any danger.

I liked these posts.

Spoiler: show

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:01 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:32 am Let's start with me.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:38 am @sprityo
Frankly, it really goes against my instincts to be voting you right now. Radishes is inconsistent and wobbly, pushed me for stupid reasons, and accepted that the spiny post cleared me way too easily. I think, in my heart of hearts, even as I am voting you, that he's the scum here. I'm stomping on it 'cause I'm at lylo and therefore I am wrong.

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:49 pm So between the option of Radishes who I haven’t tried to scrutinize. The man who was drawing a lot of different view points from everyone yesterday (and I think day 2 as well?). Points of interest I remember about Radishes was his and Pawn’s “You’re copying me” type deal with reads

By all means I would be the one lynched here since Evenstar and Radihes have the same reads. But if mafia is picking who goes where...then that would be what they want and too easy. I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and go with that’s the case.

Radishes seemed to have pretty consistent reads from what I can remember as well. As in they didn’t change if at all. Evenstar is going to be a bag of cats to dissect
So the two real points against me appear to be my 'wobbly and inconsistent' play (what does that even mean?) and my 'pretty consistent reads' (which isn't true).

My play has been the same since the beginning; any wobbliness comes from three things:
(a) adapting my gameplay to the non-voting/non-rereading mechanics
(b) unfamiliarity with me/my meta
(c) the fact I never truly let go of my scum!Evenstar read and was trying to work around it

My reads did change:
(i) Jack went from mild SR to mild TR to strong SR (bottom 3) to strong TR
(ii) Colin went from TR to a bottom 3 SR
(iii) Epi went from SR to TR
(iv) Sprityo went from SR to uncertain TR
...etc. Rabbit was a strong TR throughout, but beyond that everything was in flux to some extent.
What I mean by "wobbly and inconsistent" is that you don't seem to really believe your own reads.

The fact that your reads have shifted over time is not inherently a bad thing, and in fact too-static reads are often a scumtell: what I take issue with is how your reads have shifted. I expect to be able to understand your reasoning for why certain people are town or scum, since we come from a similar environment and you claim to have some idea how my brain works and how to pitch me a case, but everything you've personally come up with has left me cold.

Exhibit A: Me
You called me scum D2&3 based on my late D1 vote, then said you were having doubts early in D3 and used that to justify accepting Spiny's post as a clear on me. When me and Pawn called you on it, you backtracked hastily. Today you're maintaining that your heavy scumread of me remained strong for the whole day. So what you said about having doubts on D3 was a lie, then?

Exhibit B: Jack
You scumread Jack early in D3, putting him in your bottom 3 IIRC. He remained there for some time, and then I made my post about how the current PoE felt bad and I thought Jack, Colin, Dom, Sprityo were all bad cases and that Jack in particular was ML bait because he has no defenders at all. You seemed vaguely convinced by this and moved off your scumread, but returned to it later in the day for reasons that aren't really clear to me, and AFAIK that was where you left off. Now you're saying that you reversed your position again and hard-townread Jack? I don't understand the reasoning behind your flip-flops here.

Exhibit C: Pawn, Epi, Rabbit
Throughout the entire day you were "townreading" Pawn with a deeply uncertain tone. I don't recall if you actually flipped on him when I pushed him, but I definitely don't recall you defending him... and checking my spreadsheet here, it looks like one of your final 3 options was Pawn.

Epi, on the other hand, you entered the day scumreading... and then slowly slid into a townread based IIRC on his push of Rabbit, which to my eyes was excessive and unfair. You did this while townreading Rabbit, and made no attempt to break up the conflict between two of your townreads. It feels extremely convenient to me that you slid into townreading Epi in this fashion.

Furthermore, when Pawn and Epi were scumreading each other, you stood aside and let them duke it out without significantly contributing one way or the other. I can see a towny motive for this if both your reads of them were highly uncertain, but my recorded votes say you had Pawn in your bottom 3 and Epi not at this point, so that seems unlikely. I think you did make a brief post about Pawn "slanking" or "coasting" at one point, but I certainly don't recall any major contributions from you at EoD. (Unless it was you who was tinfoiling a Pawn/me scumteam? I'm fairly sure that was earlier in the day anyway.)

In Summary:
My general impression of you is that your scumread of me is your only controversial opinion. You slid towards "Jack is town" following me; you slid towards "Pawn is scum" following Epi. You claim to have only townread Pawn in the first place based on the fact that Rabbit thought he was town. You backed off your position that I was scum very quickly when Spiny's post came up, and then backed right back onto it just as quickly when I called you out on it.

You try not to get involved in conflicts in the thread, and are particularly likely to ambiguously-townread strong players like Epi and Pawn. It seems important to you that perceptive people like Epi not have reason to look at you too close: while I'm also known as a strong player, it's a lot easier to brush off suspicion from me than from someone like Epignosis, which makes your persistent scumread of me slot quite neatly into a world where I'm being framed.

As for your analysis content, I recall one solid analysis post at the beginning of D2 regarding the votals, and thereafter your reads have felt confused, vague and underspecified. I've had to prod you for reasoning multiple times, and I've rarely been satisfied with what I get out of you in response. It's also notable that you have significant falloff in contributions over time: Sprityo posts less than you, but they're much more consistent, and there's significant evidence of real heavy lifting behind the scenes. Given that most of what they've done is bullwork, this is a weaker towntell than I'd like, but they score points for getting louder in lylo while you seem to be becoming quieter.

sinice evenstar wants to be koi

I dont think it's evenstar. The amount of thought put into this is either town or a damn good mafia player, that I wouldnt be ashamed to lose to today.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

I will be taking exactly 10 minutes to read evenstar

This is it. This is probably one of the biggest points of the game is this phase. Seeing both a recent finalist in action and a mafia veteran of exceptional skill really reminds me how outclassed I am.
I'm starting off with how each player has progressed throughout the day.

Master Radishes - 42 posts:

Yesterday Mr expresses his thoughts on Final 3 situations, stating they are "the worst" and at the same time his experience has told him it's obvious who the lynch will be. He mentions that he believe this to be another obvious lynch case. First meat post has MR replying to our general idea posts of what we had thought of the other players until now. I'll be covering this below in conjunction with all the follow ups to that post. This is MR's general reads post which he then translates into my Strongest Points question post i asked.

Evenstar - everything I'm seeing looks the opposite of the town!Eva I've seen. I've never played with her, and it's different to watch from spec chat, but she looks...uncertain. Also, the Nook and potentially Pawn kills fit her meta perfectly. And lest we forget her D1 vote at 3 mins remaining nearly prevented Drago being lynched. The big point against this theory is if Spiny spewed her Mason, but without access to the main thread I can't check.

Sprityo - has been laying low and is now suddenly here and active, which is nagl for anyone. D1-D3 posting left me uninspired. Emotional outbursts can be faked. The big point against this case is that he's also shown a propensity to be much more insightful than his low-posting would indicate, such as countering theories with logical points others had missed, and how this round his biggest post ^^ showed me he's been paying much more attention than I realised.

I won't 'hide' the fact that I am still leaning towards Evenstar as scum. But I suppose in F3 due diligence is needed, so I'll duly and diligently try to see the opposite world.

Initially MR gives a pretty heavy scum lean on Evenstar with the exception of something we can't prove, even stating he leans Evenstar is scum. For myself he says my sudden change in frequency and activity is a bad look and that up until recently i've essentially been non-existent, finished with a backhanded compliment. It doesn't make it a point against his case since he had already said that my change was not a good look. so saying that i've been paying more attention than he had realized doesn't give me any kind of positive light. You could say the "countering theories with logical points" is a positive if it wasn't rightfully dismissed later down the line. For good reason too because logic =/= town. This post aims to satisfy a trend.

The rest of the the has left me the same as i've felt about MR the entire game. There, playing, but hardly convincing. He explains and responds with things that sound good but more or less not inspiring. I have to weigh this versus Evenstar now-

It's 2:20 am in the morning, i have 4 hours of rest up until now, and i dont drink coffee

please hold while i gather my thoughts and submit my vote

I’m going to be taking a nap for about an hour or two. Then I’ll be here until end of day for the final bouts and discussion

Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:33 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:28 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:24 am I think my decision here may come down to whether Pawn was lynched or killed. Only Radish had motive to NK Colin, and only Sprityo had motive to lynch him.
Are you referring to motive as a "need to kill" or a motive as in "possibility to vote." And if so why would i need Pawn lynched? What is my motive?
Only you had motive to lynch Colin, sorry, it's phrased confusingly. Any scumteam would have preferred to lynch Pawn, IMO: a Colin lynch feels like a safety play, the kind of thing that you would pile on if one of your team members was under significant pressure.

Understandable. But I still have the same question:

What is my direct motive, my personal motive for lynching Colin? Not a hypothetical scumteam situation. Colin, (much like how I was to pawn) was there out of virtue of following the rules of needing three people to vote.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:55 am
--D1 he made an opening post that was basically fluff, e.g. ‘Oh these two people are fighting, I’ll stay out of that’ with no analytical content or anything. I called him on it and several agreed, and Sprit’s response was to basically say he hadn’t intended to be analytical, just a catch up for himself. I still know why he needed to *post* it then.

What's the alternative then, to not participate? To not post anything and remain a lurker. At the minimum content is made and with content comes discussion and analysis. Not necessarily by me, but from the game as a whole? I also do not take notes. So just putting things in a tldr in thread based on my own thoughts at the time is a use for me as well. Albeit this was before we knew about the shenanigans now wasn't it?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:55 am --D2 he was one of the slankers, and was generally ignored until closer to the end. I think I was the one to first raise this. Sprit…again didn’t really have much of a response. But as I recall it, Nova and Sprit became the two real wagons by EoD2. My sense of the thread at that point was that it was 50/50. The fact Sprit remained could suggest the scum voted Nova (presumably as a bloc, since it’s private). This is interesting, as if it was a v/v situation why did they choose to help lynch the bigger slanker? It could indicate Sprit was a wolf wagon in this situation.

--Sprit had that emotional outburst; that’s a post that is easily faked. He’s certainly seemed calmer since.

I felt my point was made with that post. But a long night with little sleep coupled with my pet peeve of voting without backing really set me off. I couldn't tell you why nova was the wagon over me, perhaps mafia has kept me alive for the sole purpose of having a pocket mislynch. It makes a wine situation after all

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:55 am --In D3 there was more activity, but the quality of contribution remained variable. Aside from a couple insightful moments, which are somewhat NAI anyway, he coasted through without ever really being under the heaviest of fire.

yes

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:55 am --His start this Day has been better. Although now that Eva and I are going at it, he seems content to recede to the background again.

I had my discussion with Evenstar earlier and haven't had anything else to add or say as of recent. Maybe it's my military logic, but straight forward answers will satisfy my questions. Find a problem, solve it. And if you can't you just do your best and/or ask for help.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:29 am it's 4:30 AM here btw

so yeah, @Sprityo it'd be great if you could engage with Radishes' case and stuff so I can see what you have to say in the morning

Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:19 am In the world where Pawn is lynched, it's because Sprityo is less of a threat. In the world where Colin is lynched, it's because Sprityo is scum. I think it's convenient that Sprityo believes Pawn was lynched.

adressing my last post. Are you referring to a motive to kill pawn or colin, because i read it as pawn

Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:24 am I think my decision here may come down to whether Pawn was lynched or killed. Only Radish had motive to NK Colin, and only Sprityo had motive to lynch him.

Are you referring to motive as a "need to kill" or a motive as in "possibility to vote." And if so why would i need Pawn lynched? What is my motive?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:55 am @sprityo any chance you have a recent game where you were scum (or even town) for us to compare you to?

Escape from Sockville Pen Most recent. Won, Survived
Retrocausality Mafia Lost, Shot Day 5
Vanilla Mafia Won, Lynched Day 2
DFS Mafia Lost, Surrendered Day 2
Chinese Food Won, Survived
Dethy Game Won, Survived
Pokemon Mafia Won, Lynched Day 3

All seven of my mafia games on the site

Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:25 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:14 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:08 pm I'm off for the night. Another 24 hours shift tomorrow. Leave me questions if you have any and i'll be able to respond in the next 12 hours more than likely.
Why weren't you lynched yesterday?
Sprityo's been back in thread and answered another of my questions, but hasn't answered this.

My bad I somehow missed this one?

And I don’t have an answer for you on why I wasn’t lynched.

What I believe is mafia in the case if lynching colin that they needed to figure out who Town would pile on more? A relatively absent player or someone who’d been at least trying to play. With pawn it’s more so mafia taking advantage of stray votes at EOD.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:26 pm I distinctly recall Jack started D3 with {Epi, Rabbit, Colin}.
sprityo, am I misremembering?

In truth I don’t take notes. I happened to just make that vote list yesterday in google sheets

So I can’t remember what jack’s votes were s the start. If anything I looked through his ISO for day 3 and couldn’t find a legitimate 3 people he listed. So I made a crapshoot. Soon after posting that table jack corrected me on what his pool was, which I assume he kept until EOD.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:16 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:35 pm I'm going to assume the scum can at least pick which of their own goes to the next level.
This is an interesting thought. I've wondered the same.

What scum team chooses Sprityo to go 'all the way'? He's collectively scumread by many players. Unless his partner was, like, Colin, Sprit is not their ace in the hole. (No offence Sprit, that's not a comment on your ability so much as on your position this game.)
Also, coming back to this: Sprityo is damn near an IC at this point because he's too visibly unskilled to have gotten here on purpose. This makes him extremely unlikely to get lynched, and therefore, paradoxically, a great selection to put in a F3. 112 lurked out three days in WC1 by looking too harmless/not-on-the-ball to be scum.

So yeah, I'm paranoid. Doubly so because Sprityo definitely has some skill: he's not a poor player, he's a competent-but-quiet one.

thanks I try my best.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:35 pm I'm going to assume the scum can at least pick which of their own goes to the next level.
This is an interesting thought. I've wondered the same.

What scum team chooses Sprityo to go 'all the way'? He's collectively scumread by many players. Unless his partner was, like, Colin, Sprit is not their ace in the hole. (No offence Sprit, that's not a comment on your ability so much as on your position this game.)

A scum team may choose me, but I've faced my share of heat as well. There was a point where I was the most widely scumread player. I may not have been at EoD3, but I was certainly not strongly townread. I was an 'eh, probably not' sort of read. If my teammate is any of Rabbit, Epi, or even Pawn, they're likely here instead of me. Heck, possibly even Dom.

A scum team could very well choose Eva. She was widely townread except by one vegetable. That seems like a solid choice.

It's interesting you assume this because I think if anything it points to you more than Sprit.

None taken Radishes. I’m aware of my lack of prowess

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:50 pm Oh, @sprityo, are you able to be around at EoD then? Or do we need to settle things before then?

EoD is 11pm for me (GMT) and I can be around for the last 2-3 hours, intermittently.

Preferably before. But I can make an effort to appear

I'm off for the night. Another 24 hours shift tomorrow. Leave me questions if you have any and i'll be able to respond in the next 12 hours more than likely.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:52 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:50 pm nvm im dumb you just said you couldnt get ahold of him

Did you try sloonei?
no, that's a good point, I will

Was that table of yours from last time an image? I can't seem to get table code to work here

yes

nvm im dumb you just said you couldnt get ahold of him

Did you try sloonei?

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:43 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:32 pm To clarify. MR didnt have a legit bottom three when I left, so i took a look at his ISO and pulled out all the people he had said he had scum reads on. 5 people to be exact with pawn not being one of them
I checked the OP again, and the rules of this level only seem to prohibit me from discussing my own personal vote. JJJ hasn't responded to a prod. Given that you didn't get whacked for posting your chart last level, I'm just gonna assume I can post mine, 'cause I'm leaving for uni in like an hour and I don't know when JJJ'll be around to answer my question.

- linking the spreadsheet would be a bad plan because OGI, let me just convert this to a forum table

maybe jay was just giving me a pass, I would just ping or PM him first or something

To clarify. MR didnt have a legit bottom three when I left, so i took a look at his ISO and pulled out all the people he had said he had scum reads on. 5 people to be exact with pawn not being one of them

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:19 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:52 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:29 am I super wish I'd taken more notes and quotes from D3. If I had them right now you wouldn't be able to plead ignorance like this.
I'm not pleading???
It struck me as weird that you were acting like you didn't know who the post was aimed at, because:
1: I don't think Radishes was ever a serious candidate for the lynch yesterday,
2: I don't think he's said anything today about how likely he was to be lynched yesterday.

I felt like it was probably meant for me, and it was after my post, it just didnt have my name in it was all. Clarification was all i was looking for really

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:08 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:51 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:27 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:08 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:56 am You're scum because you've been lurking? Feels like a bad reason.

- You're scum because you made a big show of "oh no I'm getting lynched" at the end of yesterday, and now you're confidently assuring me that you were never in any danger.
I must've missed this. Can you explain further, or who it's directed at?
It's directed at you, Sprityo. I recall you had three or four posts where you were moping/venting frustration about how you were first up on the chopping block.

Today, you're telling me that you tallied the votes and Pawn was a clear front-runner. In that case, why were you stressing so much about possibly getting lynched?
He wasn't the clear front runner. He clearly wouldve been lynched over colin given my notes. I still was within death's door a when I left and I had no certainty that I would live. As i explained before, I'm never not worried about eating a lynch. Youre reading confidence, I'm saying statistics. Two completely different things.
Okay, this is a good answer and brings me more around towards "my chart's just ahead/behind of yours": if you'd claimed that the data was clear I would have called you a damn liar.

Yes because MR didnt have Pawn in his pool when I left for the night as well. As you indicated above

good post good post

He DID say he was gonna be bust all day, so I expect him to be back and replying within the next couple hours

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:32 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:26 am I’ll ask MR about those read changes he was referring to after lunch.

And yes while I appreciate the “towntell” point. I agree that it’s just me being logical. Analysis large quantities is not my strong suit so using logic when faced with an issue and making hypothesis around voting and night kills is what I try.
Frankly I feel like you're being overly modest here, and it's pinging me, mostly because I do "oh that's not a real reason to townread me" more often as scum. I got IIRC Vanity with that one in WC1 for a good day and a half.

WIFOM?

I'm simply agreeing with MR

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:29 am I super wish I'd taken more notes and quotes from D3. If I had them right now you wouldn't be able to plead ignorance like this.

I'm not pleading???

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:27 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:08 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:56 am You're scum because you've been lurking? Feels like a bad reason.

- You're scum because you made a big show of "oh no I'm getting lynched" at the end of yesterday, and now you're confidently assuring me that you were never in any danger.
I must've missed this. Can you explain further, or who it's directed at?
It's directed at you, Sprityo. I recall you had three or four posts where you were moping/venting frustration about how you were first up on the chopping block.

Today, you're telling me that you tallied the votes and Pawn was a clear front-runner. In that case, why were you stressing so much about possibly getting lynched?

He wasn't the clear front runner. He clearly wouldve been lynched over colin given my notes. I still was within death's door a when I left and I had no certainty that I would live. As i explained before, I'm never not worried about eating a lynch. Youre reading confidence, I'm saying statistics. Two completely different things.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:56 am You're scum because you've been lurking? Feels like a bad reason.

- You're scum because you made a big show of "oh no I'm getting lynched" at the end of yesterday, and now you're confidently assuring me that you were never in any danger.

I must've missed this. Can you explain further, or who it's directed at?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:32 am My reads did change:
(i) Jack went from mild SR to mild TR to strong SR (bottom 3) to strong TR
(ii) Colin went from TR to a bottom 3 SR
(iii) Epi went from SR to TR
(iv) Sprityo went from SR to uncertain TR

So do you remember the reasons for these changes? or at least when they happened?

Aka, anyone can be logical. Anyone could’ve seen it. I don’t know how I happened to be the one to catch it. Probably because I’ve had my eye on Evenstar all game.

I’ll ask MR about those read changes he was referring to after lunch.

And yes while I appreciate the “towntell” point. I agree that it’s just me being logical. Analysis large quantities is not my strong suit so using logic when faced with an issue and making hypothesis around voting and night kills is what I try.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:54 am No, that's not even right, the Doublevoter thing was a good piece of analysis.

Was it though? I wrote it off as not anything important. More so rabbit and pawn rolling with free "you are town" publicity

Evenstar:

Town Point - Evenstar had seemingly no suspicion all game. Even while confronting Mac and Nutella, I can't think of a lot of people who openly said they suspected Evenstar or wanted to lynch her aside from Day 1.

Mafia Point - Evenstar's backtracking is what concerns me the most. I know you've already addressed this before but it is the most obvious concern for me. When you backed off Mac after he confronted your reason for suspecting him. Backtracking when you backed off nutella when she and myself repeatedly explained why your logic and graph was flawed. Not really backtracking on the iaafr doublevoter thing, more so just not thought through.

Master Radishes:

Town Point - Much like Pawn, who we seem to keep comparing Radishes to, MR has been able to effectively explain any and all questions directed at him with clarity and good reason.

Mafia Point - I'm getting Jack syndrome with MR, the only difference is MR doesnt goof around. But my issue is I don't remember specifics about MR. Blendy maybe is the word?

Open Question:

What's the Singular biggest reason to Town read the other two players

And what is the Singular biggest reason to read them Mafia?

I'll be doing mine

Well, moving on then. I don't think it'd help for us to speculate on who would kill pawn/colin. The closet, MAYBE I would get is if Evenstar still had pawn in her lynch pool by EOD. That would be the closet thing. Killing colin wouldve been more so a throw away point given that the lynch wasnt revealed at EOD. Mafia can use that to their advantage technically.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:22 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:17 am also @Evenstar if your graph is correct, then it's still the same question, of why did mafia want pawn dead, and we can assume that his failed lynch was why he was killed.
It seems pretty clear the mafia wanted to break up the towncore of me/pawn/rabbit and therefore pushed/killed the weak link. What's your hypothesis?

I think mafia is looking for an easy lynch

not graph, notes on lynches

also [mention]Evenstar[/mention] if your graph is correct, then it's still the same question, of why did mafia want pawn dead, and we can assume that his failed lynch was why he was killed.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:15 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:08 am Fair enough, fresh eyes are important. Though you can't blame me for worrying about you tunneling.

also what is SPK stand for?
Strong Player Kill. I'm known to be good at mafia, therefore scum make sure I don't get to LyLo.

Y'all here at Syndicate seem to have not gotten the hint. Which is... nice, I guess?

How fortunate for you. I'm only alive due to the nature of the game im sure. I am not what you call a Strong Player

While this is also a moot point, I wanted to ask [mention]Master Radishes[/mention] what he thinks about Evenstar and Myself since we've already done a short bit

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:12 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:02 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:52 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:31 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:38 am 6: Please walk me through how Pawn gets lynched over Colin, because I really don't see it.
I know you literally just said that you dont really see it, and I have the argument prepared, but i actually need you to tell me first.

Odd, I know. But i want to see one more time if you can figure out why I think that.

Why would I think Pawn got lynched over colin?
I can think of a bunch of options, ranging from "you're scum and know that to be the case" to "you did a more up-to-date tally than the one I saw, and the results suggested a Pawn lynch was more plausible than a Colin lynch." Going by stated votes, it was pretty much a crapshoot IIRC: while I acknowledge that it's possible Pawn drew the short straw, I was defending him and pushing Epi at EOD, and my opinion ought to have counted for something.

Basically, I don't see how y'all end up lynching Pawn - an active player being pretty strongly townread by both me and rabbit - over a nothing player with like a dozen posts in the dayphase. I especially don't see why he'd get lynched and then Colin would get killed. I would've expected a kill on me, Rabbit or Epi in that case.
So as you pointed out yesterday, compiling the votes and posting it was illegal, but i'm sure there's no problem with me keeping a personal counter of it. Without referencing it directly. Same as how Epi was able to pull some of his posts earlier.

So if you take out Dom, who never publicly said a 3 list, at least not to my knowledge. No one suspected Evenstar. Not a single player had you in their pool. Pawn had the most potential votes when looking at the pools.

if you could divide the pool in half to see who was likely to be lynched and who wasnt it'd be, it'd look like:

Colin, Epi, Evenstar, iaafr, Radish / Dom, Jack, Pawn, Sprityo

What i'm getting at is in a world where everyone was honest of where they were potentially voting. Colin would NEVER had beat Pawn in the lynch poll.
Huh. That's weird, because my spreadsheet says Colin was edging out Pawn and the main race was between you and Jack.

I did miss the last couple hours. So unless you can explain to me what happened to turn it around at the last second, I'll believe my theory

I won't make that a big point. It's more so interesting. Situational Awareness if you will.

So then if we are to believe that this is reality, why did the mafia kill Colin?

Fair enough, fresh eyes are important. Though you can't blame me for worrying about you tunneling.

also what is SPK stand for?

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:52 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:31 am
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:38 am 6: Please walk me through how Pawn gets lynched over Colin, because I really don't see it.
I know you literally just said that you dont really see it, and I have the argument prepared, but i actually need you to tell me first.

Odd, I know. But i want to see one more time if you can figure out why I think that.

Why would I think Pawn got lynched over colin?
I can think of a bunch of options, ranging from "you're scum and know that to be the case" to "you did a more up-to-date tally than the one I saw, and the results suggested a Pawn lynch was more plausible than a Colin lynch." Going by stated votes, it was pretty much a crapshoot IIRC: while I acknowledge that it's possible Pawn drew the short straw, I was defending him and pushing Epi at EOD, and my opinion ought to have counted for something.

Basically, I don't see how y'all end up lynching Pawn - an active player being pretty strongly townread by both me and rabbit - over a nothing player with like a dozen posts in the dayphase. I especially don't see why he'd get lynched and then Colin would get killed. I would've expected a kill on me, Rabbit or Epi in that case.

So as you pointed out yesterday, compiling the votes and posting it was illegal, but i'm sure there's no problem with me keeping a personal counter of it. Without referencing it directly. Same as how Epi was able to pull some of his posts earlier.

So if you take out Dom, who never publicly said a 3 list, at least not to my knowledge. No one suspected Evenstar. Not a single player had you in their pool. Pawn had the most potential votes when looking at the pools.

if you could divide the pool in half to see who was likely to be lynched and who wasnt it'd be, it'd look like:

Colin, Epi, Evenstar, iaafr, Radish / Dom, Jack, Pawn, Sprityo

What i'm getting at is in a world where everyone was honest of where they were potentially voting. Colin would NEVER had beat Pawn in the lynch poll.

let rephrase "a strategy so easily exploitable"

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:38 am In the case where it's Radishes scum, then you're here because you're the lowest poster that's not Colin and I'm here because the scum know about my strat of flipping my reads at LyLo.

also this....why would this be a strategy. especially one that could so heavily be relied on by people you know.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:38 am 6: Please walk me through how Pawn gets lynched over Colin, because I really don't see it.

I know you literally just said that you dont really see it, and I have the argument prepared, but i actually need you to tell me first.

Odd, I know. But i want to see one more time if you can figure out why I think that.

Why would I think Pawn got lynched over colin?

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