The Syndicate

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
The prize itself doesn't matter much, but my wincon while I'm still playing the game does.

This statement is all that I need to know that I would never host a game where you had to be alive to win. It's all anyone should need, to understand why it's a terribly flawed notion.

It's not about winning and losing, it's about incentive and intent. If your townies aren't playing properly, then it's not the same game anymore. If I enroll in a game and I'm later informed that I need to be alive to win, even if I am technically a Town role-- as far as I'm concerned, I'm a survivor Indie. And like it or not, that's how the majority would think, whether they talk about it or even realize it. That's basic human psychology at work.

I've not seen one person here refute this most basic detractor from that style of hosting. I've seen some people try, and ultimately fail.

thellama73 wrote:I have a question for the group. I always hear people attack the "you have to be alive to win" condition on the grounds that it keeps the civilians from playing like a team and encourages every man for himself tactics. My question is his: what does "playing like a team" look like for civilians? How, specifically, is it different than what we see now? How can you play like a team when you don't know who your teammates are?

I don't think I've ever heard this explained.

If I roll a generic role as a Townie, I will do everything in my power to get myself killed instead of someone with a Power role.

Same goes for being a mafia goon and taking attention away from stronger members.

Inviting your mafia teammates to bus you in a smart way to help the team overall.

There are dozens, these are just the first ones to pop into my head as I read your question.

Agreed with S~V~S and JJJ.

Needing to be alive to win is called a Survivor. It has no place in Townie/Mafia win-conditions, imo. It's not a game I'd want to host or play in unless I was Independent.

I will never host a game where Townies or Mafiosos need to be alive in order to win.

That type of win-condition belongs in 3rd party/Independent faction, not the main two. Sometimes sacrificing yourself is the smart play, and you should win with your team.

I'd rather take wins away from players who stayed alive but didn't deserve to win than those who played hard for their team, but got killed for it.

Epignosis wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Public lie detectors as a whole, honestly.

A non-public LD is essentially a weaker cop, so it can be dealt with even if it can be used every day.

A public one is so OP it hurts.

I have a standing rule that I refuse to make statements for the purpose of being checked by the lie detector- my alignment matters not.

I'd rather people not know there was a lie-detect in the game right up until that one moment they pop in and fire it off, without hinting or asking people obvious, pointed questions.

In a big, big game, I'm cool with a One-Shot public lie-detect. Generally, I like to keep them private though.

Lie-detectors that can be used every single day, so you end up with everyone in the game clamoring to be detected.