The Syndicate

posts. Not pages.

We're like 30 pages away from this being the most active side job thread btw. Let's do it.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Quin: What specific reasons are there for you to consider LoRab such a strong town read?

My discussion with Wilgy in regards to LoRab's associations with Eloh made me feel good about her, and her interactions with Dom support that. Obviously the latter rests on Dom being bad. I also think that most recent post was civ-minded.

I can probably elaborate on this further after I've done reads on you both.

I look forward to you doing that.

You'll have to reward me after. I'm already cringing at the idea of reading through 20 pages of your posts, because I know that it's probably all meat.

Sloonei wrote:Quin: What specific reasons are there for you to consider LoRab such a strong town read?

My discussion with Wilgy in regards to LoRab's associations with Eloh made me feel good about her, and her interactions with Dom support that. Obviously the latter rests on Dom being bad. I also think that most recent post was civ-minded.

I can probably elaborate on this further after I've done reads on you both.

LoRab wrote:I will avenge you JJJ.

I have started wondering if Quin/Dom is civ/civ misunderstanding and my suspicion of Sloonei has increased, tbh. Didn't want to mention it until night had ended. But, yeah.

If LoRab is bad then she needed only come in and pick a side between Dom and myself. Pushing an additional suspect is unnecessary. I don't think LoRab is bad.

Sloonei wrote:I noticed in one of the posts you pointed out that zebra had, at one point, placed Dom at the very top of her rainbow. Is this something that you necessarily find suspicious? That's a pretty strong connection for zebra to create if they're both bad.

The reason that caught my attention was because their interactions beforehand were minimal. Dom's placement on that list was not at all reflective of the conversations they had. So, yes.

They're also the ones you called opportunistic

Sloonei wrote:What interactions between Epi and Dom are you referencing? I'd be interested to see an interactive read from you on those two.

I posted about them in the posts going down from this post.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].

You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.

What compelled you to feel more strongly about your suspicion of Dom yesterday than the case against Epi and his concession?

I'll elaborate on this post:

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.

Aside from the concession, the most suspicious things I found in Epi's posts were the teammate interactions he had with Dom. My Dom case is significantly more tangible. In respect to Epi's concession, I had my doubts as to his motivation. Firstly, I don't understand the motivation for either a civilian or mafia to throw the game at Lylo, because in either situation he's screwing over his teammates. Secondly, I didn't have Epi pegged as the kind of guy that would throw the game after being suspected. So when he did, I was confused. And that doubt kept me on Dom. If I'd known he was going through what he is it might have affected how I felt about his concession, but that's in hindsight.

Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].

You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.

Sloonei wrote:Dom, Quin: fight for my love.

I can't go any further than I have in pushing my Dom case. It's there in its entirety. I intend to spend today finding reasons to rule out it being you or LoRab.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey guys, is town going to win?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:I knew I was being subbed in a few days before I actually did because G-Man wanted to make sure I was still on board. I think I looked at the thread beforehand if that's what you mean by 'benefits'.

Would you say you suspected Elohcin before you hopped in officially?

I didn't have any game-related thoughts at all. I had way too much to do in terms of uni work to actually observe. I just read for the sake of reading.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:LoRab didn't backpedal like Eloh did; she claimed your roleplay was suspicious based on principle and held that ground whereas Eloh took the 'I was just trying to provoke 3J' route. The backpedaling was what I remember basing my suspicion around.

You cast some suspicion prior to the backpedaling, but you didn't become more aggressive about it until after that. So I kind of agree.

I went back and checked. G-Man announced you'd replaced into the game at 8:31 PM my time on the 20th. You made your first post 17 minutes later. In your fifth post, you made your first move against Elohcin, approximately 5.5 hours after rejoining the game. Do you think you enjoyed any benefits that enabled you to take this correct action so quickly?

I knew I was being subbed in a few days before I actually did because G-Man wanted to make sure I was still on board. I think I looked at the thread beforehand if that's what you mean by 'benefits'.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Question for Quin:

In your work against Elohcin, you repeatedly cited her treatment of my Neil Hartley roleplay as a reason to be suspicious of her. That's fine, I felt the same way. However, LoRab also cast some suspicion upon me for my roleplay and you acknowledged that here:

Quin wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Glad Epi is dead. I was gut feeling him as bad and this makes my life easier.

Someone tl;dr me for day/night 1.

So, a civ is very likely dead and you are glad about it? Hrm.

His post caught my attention as well. Did I make a mistake letting it go based on the fact that it came from Wilgy? I don't think so.

Sloonei mentioned in a post that you were pinged by 3J's roleplay earlier, LoRab. Can you elaborate on why? Was there a reason to suspect him for it in this specific case, or is it based on principle?

This wasn't a point you followed up on. This means you were a lot more forgiving of LoRab for being suspicious of my roleplay than you were of Elohcin for the same. Why was that?

LoRab didn't backpedal like Eloh did; she claimed your roleplay was suspicious based on principle and held that ground whereas Eloh took the 'I was just trying to provoke 3J' route. The backpedaling was what I remember basing my suspicion around.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:How likely is it Quin is bad?

Likely enough that he should be critically assessed. Genuine as he may appear, his stubborn planting of his votes lately leaves him conveniently detached from two baddie lynches. I think it was close to an absurdity on Day 9 to call his case against Dom more conclusive than Epignosis conceding. He's going to have to answer to that.

It's also not ideal that Dom made it clear he felt he was being pursued as a game-ending mislynch but then wouldn't commit to calling Quin a baddie. For his premise to make sense, Quin must be a baddie. To be unsure is understandable, but the suspect pool is tiny now and that's the narrative he has pushed.

I've been answering for that this whole time by voting the person who's case I argued was the strongest. Epi worked out. Dom is still bad.

You all know my thoughts.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I just noticed that this game has a pretty decent chance of surpassing Economics Mafia for the Side Mission with the most posts.

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I just noticed that this game has a pretty decent chance of surpassing Economics Mafia for the Side Mission with the most posts.

You two having a combined 1,500 posts probably might have a bit to do with it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:So go ahead. Explore each others' bodies.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:I would prefer my town read to not be kept in your armpit. It needs sunlight.

Rest assured, I wasn't talking about my armpit.

No wonder it's not at 100%, if it's company was anything to go by.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Estimated chance of being town:

Epignosis = 0.01%

Dom = 15%

Quin = 75%

Sloonei = 75%

LoRab = 90%

INH = 99%

I am getting these numbers from a dark, humid place.

I would prefer my town read to not be kept in your armpit. It needs sunlight.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:Yes, but choosing the wrong teammate means we lose.

Yup. For me, Dom is the one who is the higher risk of being that.

[insertdeaththreathere]

where is that guy, anyway?

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:Question:

Was Glorfindel an inevitable lynch? I know you don't like it when I suggest that sort of thing. But I'll still ask.

I wouldn't say he was an inevitable lynch, but I would say he was a likely lynch -- likely enough that Epignosis could make a half-hearted motion in another direction without expecting it to actually develop.

I could see it as an attempt to gain civ cred by doing something ultimately pointless if that lynch were between both of his teammates.

linki: We are not settled on lynching Epi today.

Dom has to have a teammate.

Yes, but choosing the wrong teammate means we lose.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:Question:

Was Glorfindel an inevitable lynch? I know you don't like it when I suggest that sort of thing. But I'll still ask.

I wouldn't say he was an inevitable lynch, but I would say he was a likely lynch -- likely enough that Epignosis could make a half-hearted motion in another direction without expecting it to actually develop.

I could see it as an attempt to gain civ cred by doing something ultimately pointless if that lynch were between both of his teammates.

linki: We are not settled on lynching Epi today.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:It would make him look better at face value.

That's the fun part when I think about them as potential team mates.

I kind of get the impression Epignosis intended for this to be our response. "Oh okay, Epi was trying to win the game with a Dom lynch." Which would imply...

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

Question:

Was Glorfindel an inevitable lynch? I know you don't like it when I suggest that sort of thing. But I'll still ask.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.

What is your perspective of the recent interactions of Dom and Epignosis, going back to the Glorfindel lynch when Epi pursued a Dom lynch instead?

He was claiming to be acting in the best interest of town by trying to find a baddie who's vote had a value. However, given that this was at Lylo, it was to be expected that nobody (except me, I guess) was going to lynch him. If Dom and Epi are teammates then his vote was safe there. But this does nothing for Glorfindel's safety, and he was bad. That, and the fact that this came at Lylo makes me doubt it was civ motivated.

This is a valid point that would make Epi seem worse than Dom in that context.

Do you feel that reflects on Dom in any certain way, when considering a bad Epignosis in that scenario?

It would make him look better at face value.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.

What is your perspective of the recent interactions of Dom and Epignosis, going back to the Glorfindel lynch when Epi pursued a Dom lynch instead?

He was claiming to be acting in the best interest of town by trying to find a baddie who's vote had a value. However, given that this was at Lylo, it was to be expected that nobody (except me, I guess) was going to lynch him. If Dom and Epi are teammates then his vote was safe there. But this does nothing for Glorfindel's safety, and he was bad. That, and the fact that this came at Lylo makes me doubt it was civ motivated.

This is a valid point that would make Epi seem worse than Dom in that context.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:His sudden 180 is suspicious, but it is not the most suspicious thing and not something I am going to place a vote for at Lylo.

When you say "his sudden 180", what does that mean? How has he pulled a 180?

I'm referring to his concession and his posts since.

When you imagine Epi is doing this as a townie, please try to describe to me what you believe is happening inside his head. What is motivating that behavior from a town Epi?

That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I was having issues too, but it's letting me in now. Hopefully that was a brief hiccup.

How would you feel if I refuse to vote for Dom today, Quin?

Anxious and upset. Do you refuse to vote for Dom?

It's fun because I think we're most likely arguing about the two baddies.

I'd be hard to convince though that the case against Dom is stronger than Epignosis resigning gracefully today.

I would call this a stalemate but Epi is the one with three votes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:His sudden 180 is suspicious, but it is not the most suspicious thing and not something I am going to place a vote for at Lylo.

When you say "his sudden 180", what does that mean? How has he pulled a 180?

I'm referring to his concession and his posts since.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Do you have an opinion on Epi?

Do you have an opinion on Epi?

Do you have an opinion on Epi?

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I was having issues too, but it's letting me in now. Hopefully that was a brief hiccup.

How would you feel if I refuse to vote for Dom today, Quin?

Anxious and upset. Do you refuse to vote for Dom?

Do you have an opinion on Epi?

His sudden 180 is suspicious, but it is not the most suspicious thing and not something I am going to place a vote for at Lylo.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I was having issues too, but it's letting me in now. Hopefully that was a brief hiccup.

How would you feel if I refuse to vote for Dom today, Quin?

Anxious and upset. Do you refuse to vote for Dom?

The Syndicate is giving me shit again, hopefully it sorts itself out soon. I'll be back when it has.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I might have given Quin 2 points, but I reduced it to 1 because I'm paranoid that he is deliberately ignoring the obviousness of Epi's alignment so he can continue pushing fruitlessly for his Dom mislynch. Even if he carries it into true LyLo he has the advantage of looking like he's invested.

I think it's illogical behavior. Logic and townies don't always mix though.

I'm not ignoring anything. There is a good chance Epi is bad, but there is a better chance that Dom is. If we're wrong we won't get another shot. So I'm not going to put my faith in a case that isn't as strong as the persons I've been pushing since Day 6 and have absolutely no reason to doubt.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Anyway Quin: what do you think of Sloonei seldom poking around here lately without doing much?

I have absolutely no opinion. He is not the type to shy the thread when he's bad, and I do not think that choosing not to post is something that should be considered suspicious.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The case against Dom could be the most riveting, compelling case to ever exist in a Mafia game and he still wouldn't be confirmed as Epi is. This is my confusion.

He is not confirmed until there is a flip. Him conceding the lynch is just another piece of evidence to consider, and Dom still looks worse to me.

In what universe is Epignosis ever town right now?

The universe that he's completely screwing with us.

That universe doesn't exist for a town Epignosis. He even said as much. He is a proud and competitive player who isn't going to throw a game away because of his own boredom. That's well beneath him and nearly anyone else. Would you ever do that?

Quin wrote:In what universe is Dom ever town right now?

The universe where you're bad.

That is not a universe that exists.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:What investigation I have done on him

This is a thing?

Sure. I don't know whether it's public or not, but I have read the posts of every single person in this game at least once.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The case against Dom could be the most riveting, compelling case to ever exist in a Mafia game and he still wouldn't be confirmed as Epi is. This is my confusion.

He is not confirmed until there is a flip. Him conceding the lynch is just another piece of evidence to consider, and Dom still looks worse to me.

In what universe is Epignosis ever town right now?

The universe that he's completely screwing with us. The universe that Dom's teammate is someone else. I still haven't looked into LoRab or Sloonei for that possibility.

In what universe is Dom ever town right now?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Quin, you have given me zero evidence that you care about Sloonei. Show me that you care about Sloonei.

I don't care about Sloonei. What investigation I have done on him hasn't put him anywhere near the same level as Dom.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The case against Dom could be the most riveting, compelling case to ever exist in a Mafia game and he still wouldn't be confirmed as Epi is. This is my confusion.

He is not confirmed until there is a flip. Him conceding the lynch is just another piece of evidence to consider, and Dom still looks worse to me.

Dom wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dom wrote:idk how else to tell you i'm not bad.

A good first step would be to stop trying. Defending yourself is less useful than finding the last baddie. That should be our only concern.

please tell me how to do that when i've been the lynch alternative in many lynches.

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't struggle to see a reality where Quin is the last baddie and over the last two day phases he's been trying to force the win by mislynching Dom. I'm open to talking about that.

I have been voting for Dom since before we were in Lylo, so that's not it.

You don't have information either, so I'm forced to ask myself these questions. You never voted for Glorfindel and you haven't given Epignosis much of your attention. You've actively campaigned to lynch someone else.

I'm actively campaigning to lynch someone who is bad. Information or not, pretty much the only thing I have felt confident in since Day 6 is this read. I intend to keep voting this way. Even with Epi now doing the thing he is doing.

LOL LISTENING TO MY REPSONSES MY ASS

I am listening. Your responses aren't cutting it. For a period you flat out refused to talk to me, which did not help.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:What's good enough for you is not good enough for me. Every time I look at Dom's post I see absolutely nothing but 'I am bad'. When I look at Epignosis I see 'I am suspicious'. I made my choice, and the thought of changing my mind feels like I'm hacking at my brain with a cheese grater.

I mean, I'm not even saying Epignosis is "suspicious". I'm not saying he "looks bad".

I'm saying he's conceded his lynch.

Is that good enough for you to prioritise over the time that's been spent developing numerous cases on Dom, one which you and almost everyone else has entertained? I think you're choosing to lynch someone who's playing for the shits and giggles over someone who's every post is indicative of him being bad.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:Yes.

That's hard to understand in a game where no roles have information.

We have:

1. Dom, a player for whom you have built a substantial case (and I understand your suspicion).

2. Epignosis, a player who has only barely come short of saying "yes, I'm bad".

?

What's good enough for you is not good enough for me. Every time I look at Dom's post I see absolutely nothing but 'I am bad'. When I look at Epignosis I see 'I am suspicious'. I made my choice, and the thought of changing my mind feels like I'm hacking at my brain with a cheese grater.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:I intend to keep voting this way. Even with Epi now doing the thing he is doing.

What if there are unseen shenanigans that might affect the tally and disrupt the lynch because it is too close? What do you hope to gain from your voting behavior?

I hope to gain a dead baddie. The same question applies to you, but I imagine you'll have the same answer.

Do you think that, as of right this moment, Dom is more likely to be a baddie than Epignosis?

Yes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:I intend to keep voting this way. Even with Epi now doing the thing he is doing.

What if there are unseen shenanigans that might affect the tally and disrupt the lynch because it is too close? What do you hope to gain from your voting behavior?

I hope to gain a dead baddie. The same question applies to you, but I imagine you'll have the same answer.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't struggle to see a reality where Quin is the last baddie and over the last two day phases he's been trying to force the win by mislynching Dom. I'm open to talking about that.

I have been voting for Dom since before we were in Lylo, so that's not it.

You don't have information either, so I'm forced to ask myself these questions. You never voted for Glorfindel and you haven't given Epignosis much of your attention. You've actively campaigned to lynch someone else.

I'm actively campaigning to lynch someone who is bad. Information or not, pretty much the only thing I have felt confident in since Day 6 is this read. I intend to keep voting this way. Even with Epi now doing the thing he is doing.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't struggle to see a reality where Quin is the last baddie and over the last two day phases he's been trying to force the win by mislynching Dom. I'm open to talking about that.

I have been voting for Dom since before we were in Lylo, so that's not it.

@Dom - I tried to answer to your actual post but the post format just wasn't having it. Hopefully this will do.

Case one: You can call it what you will, the fact is that I made an on-the-spot read based on what information I could recall at that moment.

Case two: I could understand you drawing conclusions out of frustration if it weren't for the fact that neither I or Sloonei had actually suspected you. We wanted a dialogue. 'Antsy' would be a better way to describe your actions than 'frustrated', and they hold different connotations.

Case three: Why is the LoRab case not comparable? The themes are the same.

He's also been avoiding discussing really any of this in a discourse that can actually be defined as that. I want to be careful not to paint him taking the backseat in the thread as suspicious, because he seems to be going through some stuff, but I am keeping it in mind.