The Syndicate

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:If I don't protect, and instead kill nutella in the hopes that you watch her, I'm the only person who's going to show up. How pointless.

That's not what I said.

Golden wrote:Theory:

Quin is mafia odd night doctor. It was intended as a mechanic against the odd night vig, but that's gone. Mafia odd night doctor doesn't prevent mafia kill, so the mafia risk my watching nutella in the hope that, if I do, I hard clear Quin's doctor claim.

juliets wrote:

Quin wrote:

juliets wrote:And I'll also say I'd like to believe your claim is true, and I've tried today to think of ways that it could be true but I just can't come up with anything other than we have a redundancy.

If you aren't the doctor yourself, and you're under the impression there are two identical roles, why are you so sure I'm the one who is lying?

There are two things that could be true here and you not be lying: 1.) it's a redundancy. 2.) my lack of experience with this type of game set up is precluding me from seeing a way what I know to be true and you being an odd night doctor could simultaneously be true. I tried to clarify what I know to be true further with the hosts but as I said earlier today, they said it would be cheating for them to clarify any further than they've done.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:PS I don't like that I spent my whole lunch in discussion with Quin either. I'm going to try to move on to other things.

But I just have a big issue in that it felt like a big agenda to me. Like Quin felt like he could seize upon an inconsistency and got lost in an inability to accept my response.

That's all I'll say for now. I'm looking forward to other, not-me perspectives. Especially Jay. I don't like that this happened so close to end of day, it's hard for me to get objective distance.

When you ended things like that in ASOUE, I wanted to lynch you so bad. If you're civ this time too, you just don't understand me at all.

Or maybe I do. You were never inherently town aligned in ASOUE. What are you referring to with 'when things ended like that'?

juliets wrote:And I'll also say I'd like to believe your claim is true, and I've tried today to think of ways that it could be true but I just can't come up with anything other than we have a redundancy.

Golden wrote:PS I don't like that I spent my whole lunch in discussion with Quin either. I'm going to try to move on to other things.

But I just have a big issue in that it felt like a big agenda to me. Like Quin felt like he could seize upon an inconsistency and got lost in an inability to accept my response.

That's all I'll say for now. I'm looking forward to other, not-me perspectives. Especially Jay. I don't like that this happened so close to end of day, it's hard for me to get objective distance.

juliets wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Quin wrote:

juliets wrote:

Quin wrote:

juliets wrote:Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

Unlikely. If Epi had a hand in balance, redundancy shouldn't be a thing.

Almost zero percent likely.

Then, as I said last night, I don't think you are telling the truth about your claim Quin unless the theory JJJ put forth last night is true.

Fredwood wrote:

Quin wrote:Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

Quin wrote:I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Sorry, got distracted by Planet Earth II...the Blue Whale is fucking amazing.

His credibility took a hit from my previous lists, I knocked him down from moderate town on Days 1-3 to Light Town today because the lack of watching. He addressed it, there really isn't more he can say on the subject, but it did weaken my case for him.

As for this interaction. I'm not sure. I said I'd need to be convinced of your lynch over the other targets, maybe he has the same feeling about Long Con?

This feels like a semantics based argument rather then a "slip" argument, so I'm don't know if it impacts my read one way or another. I'll read through it again, but most of the argument is about the usage of specific words, you guys really haven't agreed on the content, let alone an interpretation.

juliets wrote:

Quin wrote:

juliets wrote:Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

What do you mean by redundancy?

Two doctor roles that operate on odd nights.

juliets wrote:Soneji, Quin, and Golden:

Do you think it's likely that there is redundancy in the doctor role in the civ alignment? [Soneji you may not have gotten to the point yet that you understand why I'm asking this]

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:Oh, I see what you did. You added the word 'strictly' which I never used once.

Because that's what saying that would entail.

Bullshit. Discussion leads to reads, reads lead to a lynch. But the lynch is not arbitrary, it's considered.

But you want everyone to buy that saying I want you discussed is the exact same thing as saying I approve of your lynch, and you refuse to acknowledge that isn't true.

It is. That was a lynch shortlist list. Denying it is a joke.

Yes, it was a lynch shortlist. I've never denied it. What I'm denying is that 'you should be on a lynch shortlist for discussing which of those people we should lynch' and 'you should be lynched' are the same thing, they're not.

Soneji wrote:

Quin wrote:Dizzy, Fred, juliets, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck

Can you answer this?

Quin wrote:I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Scum read.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Back to reading ] aubergine

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:Oh, I see what you did. You added the word 'strictly' which I never used once.

Because that's what saying that would entail.

Bullshit. Discussion leads to reads, reads lead to a lynch. But the lynch is not arbitrary, it's considered.

But you want everyone to buy that saying I want you discussed is the exact same thing as saying I approve of your lynch, and you refuse to acknowledge that isn't true.

Golden wrote:Oh, I see what you did. You added the word 'strictly' which I never used once.

Quin wrote:I would like to know what people's reads are on Golden as of this point.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:I already did. Lynching and discussion are not mutually exclusive.

A non-answer isn't an answer. It's weasel words.

I don't do weasel words.

Then answer the question straight. What do you believe jay meant - a pool for discussion or a pool to arbitrarily lynch in?

Golden wrote:

Golden wrote:I've been out all evening, so haven't caught up (soooo much posting in this game, and I didn't realise how busy I was going to be at the same time.)

A few notes on what I have seen:

1) I think it's quite possible juliets isn't claiming doctor, so lets not presume she is just by implication (unless I've missed her confirm it). There are other reasons she might have to doubt Quin's claim.

2) Jay, it's true I didn't have much of a progression in marmot. One thing you left out is the first reads post (where I had him as town) was so early that I didn't even have a read on nutella yet. I liked his map cover and the way he handled himself around it. I didn't like much else thereafter. I referenced Dune which was a game where he lacked in any real content. That's exactly what he felt like here.

On the day he was lynched, I had to be absent and had very little time to contribute, so it is an accurate observation to say I didn't push my marmot suspicion much but I didn't really push any much (even inh, who I voted for). I wish I could say who I would have voted for or what I might have contributed if I was around, but I can't. I think it would probably have been marmot, but perhaps my participation in the thread would have seen inh lynched and delayed the marmot vote. Who knows.

3) Today is a clusterfuck.

I was intending to do a proper thinking mans rainbow but I haven't really revisited people properly. So I'll do a sort of gth rainbow for now, and then tomorrow Jay can see what's different and ask me about my thought progression.

Jay
Dizzy
Sloonei
Long Con
Quin
juliets
Jack
Fred
Soneji
Eloh
Scotty
Strawhenge
Speedchuck

Quin, this is my most recent rainbow, made after those posts about you.

I trust lc more than I trust you. I'm not subbing him out because I'm subbing him out because I really think he's town and I'm less sure about you.

You keep coming at me with different angles:

First it's that I read you based on your claim (false) Are you trying to tell me that believing my doctor claim is genuine did not come with a town read?
Second I had you as strong town all game (false) Your non existent posts are not proof of this.
Third it's because I 'approve of your lynch (the closest to true based on my words, but still a logical leap)You did.
Fourth it's because I swapped out long con even though I should be reading you stronger (incorrect) See #2.

All through this you seem to outright reject and refuse to acknowledge the gap between thinking you should be on the table of discussion and thinking you should be lynched posthaste. And you won't answer a very basic question, I believe because you know the honest answer undermines the fact that you understand that gap full well.

It feels like you just don't like the fact I'm not supporting you unreservedly.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:I already did. Lynching and discussion are not mutually exclusive.

A non-answer isn't an answer. It's weasel words.

Golden wrote:Now Soneji says shoot me. I'm target de jour.

I have a lot of work to get done today so I'm not going to be around to defend myself a whole lot.

Right now, I'd vote Jack. He already went down my rainbow for his approach to Quin at the start of the day. It seemed evident to me that there was a whole lot of inherent town-leaning stuff going on from Quin (and also, evident to me that Quin was hinting at doctor before he claimed, given he confirmed there was a blocker), but Jack pushed him far further than seemed natural even for someone who was suspicious of him (Jay's approach seemed much more in line with genuine suspicion tempered with sensible town play if wrong).

Now, his approach to me appears to be clinging on to the suspect du jour, but he's coming at me with alternate facts.

I don't like it at all.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:Ok, I just isoed for my references to 'quin' and I wasn't particularly firm about my quin suspicion. But I do feel like you got a lot in early then virtually vanished and drifted by. I pointed this out a couple of times. I didn't do a rainbow in the middle.

Incomplete thought progression recording is a thing when I'm this busy, but the fact I only had you as light town AFTER I defended your entry into the thread today should speak fairly well to my progression on you.

I don't think you are unimpeachable and deserve to avoid discussion about you.

You said that I am one of four people you approved of being killed today. That has nothing to do with whether or not I think I should be the focus of discussion.

You said it here.

That was in response to you throwing shade at me for thinking I'm unimpeachable. Try again.

I don't care what it's in response to. You're trying to claim that I'm saying 'I approve of your lynch' rather than 'I think you should be in the discussion' and saying the latter is irrelevant.

Answer the question - what do you think jay meant?

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:Yeah, my reasons for the early strong town read had fallen off a cliff.

Linki @quin - I did not say that at all. Jay said 'I might kill you', but being entirely honest, what do you think jay meant by that - an arbitrary selection from that list or choosing a pool of people to discuss? Because I sure interpreted it as the latter and I think jay would back me up in saying that's how he intended it.

Replace 'kill' with 'lynched'.

Which words am I adding to back a misrepresentation?

The ones where i apparently said I 'approved' of you being 'killed'. You're putting jays word in my mouth.

You approved of me being in that list. That is evident because you spoke out against Long Con, but not me.

I am not on Jay's list for the shits and giggles. He is looking to vote for one of the four of the people on that list.

Do you deny either of these statements?

Nope. Both of those statements are correct.

Then you approved of my being lynched.

I approve of you being examined and discussed. At the end of that process, I am open to the possibility that my conclusion could be that I approve of your lynch.

You seem to have an issue with me being ok with you being in the discussion at all.

Golden wrote:OK, I may as well say my thought on Quin's entry now.

It seems to me unlikely that Quin genuinely thinks that nutellas is an every day cop, kills nutella, and then proclaims that he thought nutella was an every day cop. I guess Jay's response was, effectively, the wifom - that I'm saying what I'm saying now. But my immediate thought when Quin said 'I thought nutella was an every day cop' was 'motive' - and if a motive is that transparent, it just seems unlikely that he would be so open about it.

Add to that, this quote is ridiculous. And blatant. If it comes from a baddie it is ballsy.

Quin wrote:I would personally recommend you just move on from this conversation, though.

These things look town to me.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:Ok, I just isoed for my references to 'quin' and I wasn't particularly firm about my quin suspicion. But I do feel like you got a lot in early then virtually vanished and drifted by. I pointed this out a couple of times. I didn't do a rainbow in the middle.

Incomplete thought progression recording is a thing when I'm this busy, but the fact I only had you as light town AFTER I defended your entry into the thread today should speak fairly well to my progression on you.

I don't think you are unimpeachable and deserve to avoid discussion about you.

You said that I am one of four people you approved of being killed today. That has nothing to do with whether or not I think I should be the focus of discussion.

You said it here.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:And what's more you're doing it pedantically to imply that jay (and by extension, i) would choose from the list arbirtarily and without further thought.

Answer my question - what do you think jay honestly meant - a list for discussion or equally happy with an arbitrary kill of any person in that list?

No I'm not. Whether you and Jay were to choose arbitrarily from the group is irrelevant to what we're talking about.

No it's not. You're the one whose claiming it wasn't a list for discussion.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:Yeah, my reasons for the early strong town read had fallen off a cliff.

Linki @quin - I did not say that at all. Jay said 'I might kill you', but being entirely honest, what do you think jay meant by that - an arbitrary selection from that list or choosing a pool of people to discuss? Because I sure interpreted it as the latter and I think jay would back me up in saying that's how he intended it.

Replace 'kill' with 'lynched'.

Which words am I adding to back a misrepresentation?

The ones where i apparently said I 'approved' of you being 'killed'. You're putting jays word in my mouth.

You approved of me being in that list. That is evident because you spoke out against Long Con, but not me.

I am not on Jay's list for the shits and giggles. He is looking to vote for one of the four of the people on that list.

Do you deny either of these statements?

Nope. Both of those statements are correct.

Golden wrote:And what's more you're doing it pedantically to imply that jay (and by extension, i) would choose from the list arbirtarily and without further thought.

Answer my question - what do you think jay honestly meant - a list for discussion or equally happy with an arbitrary kill of any person in that list?

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:Yeah, my reasons for the early strong town read had fallen off a cliff.

Linki @quin - I did not say that at all. Jay said 'I might kill you', but being entirely honest, what do you think jay meant by that - an arbitrary selection from that list or choosing a pool of people to discuss? Because I sure interpreted it as the latter and I think jay would back me up in saying that's how he intended it.

Replace 'kill' with 'lynched'.

Which words am I adding to back a misrepresentation?

The ones where i apparently said I 'approved' of you being 'killed'. You're putting jays word in my mouth.

Golden wrote:Yeah, my reasons for the early strong town read had fallen off a cliff.

Linki @quin - I did not say that at all. Jay said 'I might kill you', but being entirely honest, what do you think jay meant by that - an arbitrary selection from that list or choosing a pool of people to discuss? Because I sure interpreted it as the latter and I think jay would back me up in saying that's how he intended it.

Golden wrote:Ok, I just isoed for my references to 'quin' and I wasn't particularly firm about my quin suspicion. But I do feel like you got a lot in early then virtually vanished and drifted by. I pointed this out a couple of times. I didn't do a rainbow in the middle.

Incomplete thought progression recording is a thing when I'm this busy, but the fact I only had you as light town AFTER I defended your entry into the thread today should speak fairly well to my progression on you.

I don't think you are unimpeachable and deserve to avoid discussion about you.

Golden wrote:I haven't been strongly tiwnreading you since day one. I was strongly town reading you on day one. By the end of day three, my position on you was quite different. I was quite suspicious of you. The entry you made into the thread today got you back to weak town. All of this is in the thread, and I was having specific discussions with you about my suspicion on day three.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have to be away for a bit myself, but I should be back well before the deadline.

Quin
Long Con
Soneji
Scotty

I might kill you. Show me why I shouldn't.

I think the shortlist is fair, but I'd personally replace LC with strawhenge. Any reason you exclude him? He doesn't remind me of what I'm used to as town from him, although this could be a function of time.

You'd replace LC with Strawhenge, but not remove the person you thought was genuine in their doctor claim?

Yep, that about sums it up. I think it's important to discuss you and for me to take another look in light of Jack's flip.

What does Jack have to do with the hints I gave that lead you to the thought that I was claiming doctor?

Nothing, but your doctor claim has nothing to do with my reasons for reading you as civ. It had to do with my reasons for thinking Jack was bad (ie, I thought it was obvious enough that his suspicion looked false). But it does nothing to move my needle on your affiliation.

My perception of you in that exchange was coloured by the fact I felt Jack looked off in that exchange. I want to look at it again and see if I still feel that way taking 'it feels like Jack is setting Quin up' out of the equation. If it does, I'll likely come back to a town read. If it doesn't, it might not. Whatever, you don't get an automatic pass just because I was town reading you earlier and just because you want one.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have to be away for a bit myself, but I should be back well before the deadline.

Quin
Long Con
Soneji
Scotty

I might kill you. Show me why I shouldn't.

I think the shortlist is fair, but I'd personally replace LC with strawhenge. Any reason you exclude him? He doesn't remind me of what I'm used to as town from him, although this could be a function of time.

You'd replace LC with Strawhenge, but not remove the person you thought was genuine in their doctor claim?

Yep, that about sums it up. I think it's important to discuss you and for me to take another look in light of Jack's flip.

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have to be away for a bit myself, but I should be back well before the deadline.

Quin
Long Con
Soneji
Scotty

I might kill you. Show me why I shouldn't.

I think the shortlist is fair, but I'd personally replace LC with strawhenge. Any reason you exclude him? He doesn't remind me of what I'm used to as town from him, although this could be a function of time.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have to be away for a bit myself, but I should be back well before the deadline.

Quin
Long Con
Soneji
Scotty

I might kill you. Show me why I shouldn't.

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:My role? I'm a fucking stump.

As in the kind that has no vote or night actions?

If I activate.

Which is why I haven't activated. Because if I don't talk then I'm literally a loss to the civs, because I'd essentially be dead.

So as of now I'm a vanilla. Or I could be a Furby that wakes you up at 3am with ghostly tremors

Scotty wrote:Wtf is going on. You people talk too much.

Are we all claiming? Is that what's going on? Sloonei's got a gun and he's trained it against either me or LC now eh? I still want to believe Quin is the good one and jack is the bad one in all of this, and apparently Justin like yesterday, you guys seem to keep talking yourself out of it.

I can claim too- I don't really give a shit anymore, because I've been far too inactive to utilize it my full potential and may be running out of opportunities in this clusterfuck with all these more powerful claims.

My role? I'm a fucking stump.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Quin, I do not believe you ever gave any GTH reads. Could you do that?

Only if you promise to stop talking about me. I'll even include everyone.

GTH Good:

3J
Golden
Dizzy
juliets
speedchuck
Elohcin

GTH Bad:

Jack
Soneji
Sloonei
Fredwood
Scotty
Long Con
Strawhenge

Sloonei wrote:Quin, I do not believe you ever gave any GTH reads. Could you do that?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:I clarified yesterday as to why nutella died last night with sprityo. His answer involved a certain wording that might support that theory, 3J.

It might be a good idea to dig deep into the flavor text. Sometimes these little nuggets make appearances there.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Theory:

Three similar supportive civilian roles. They are balanced in that they don't always work -- see: paranoid/insane/naive cops. Doctors have similar variants. Quin is one such variant. His shit didn't work because he's a wack ass doctor.

Why three specifically?

Because two people are disputing your claim.