The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:Something to throw out there is that Nacho might not have been the intended kill given marmots role flip.

I recall Golden mentioning his actual Night 1 target wasn't who he had initially targeted. Was that person Nacho?

This would require the mafia to redirect their own kill.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

Ding dong.

is that the believable theory?

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:Sloonei, If we understand each other now, I'd rather break from this for a bit. We've taken three pages almost just between the two of us.

Indeed. And you'll be happy to know that you were my top suspect all throughout the night, but after this whole episode you've climbed up closer to the green side of my rainbow. I feel like you believe your argument against me, and that is fair. I just hope that you'll re-examine my posts from the mindset that I am town and that my strategy always involves keeping a very open mind.

I'd also still like for you to answer to the obvious questions that come with supporting a case that was directly opposed to the lynch of a scum player in such a contested lynch as yesterday. Let's not forget that you were the one on the wrong side yesterday.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:Sloonei, If we understand each other now, I'd rather break from this for a bit. We've taken three pages almost just between the two of us.

Indeed. And you'll be happy to know that you were my top suspect all throughout the night, but after this whole episode you've climbed up closer to the green side of my rainbow. I feel like you believe your argument against me, and that is fair. I just hope that you'll re-examine my posts from the mindset that I am town and that my strategy always involves keeping a very open mind.

I'd also still like for you to answer to the obvious questions that come with supporting a case that was directly opposed to the lynch of a scum player in such a contested lynch as yesterday. Let's not forget that you were the one on the wrong side yesterday.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:I don't know what Occam's Razor is.

"I have an answer right in front of me which makes sense. I also have an answer in front of me which makes considerably less sense, but under certain conditions it sure would be brilliant."

Occam's Razor is the former (generally it's sensible to favor the simpler explanation). Tinfoil is the latter.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My face when people still try to lynch Dizzy, who I think would not be near the conversation minus SlipGate:

My face when Sloonei doesn't give a shit about his prior stances and places a vote:

My face when Sloonei's vote helps kill a bad guy: /// ///

My face when Quin goes straight to Tinfoil Town to the point of self-parody:

My face when Sloonei had the necessary content in his post history to justify a Dizzy vote but instead voted for a confirmed baddie and people act like that's scummy:

My face when Sloonei is a town read:

My face when Jack for some reason cares about which scum teammate nutella assigns to him:

My face when posts like this are in my ISO:

Do people around here stop caring about progression just because a mafia player got lynched? Is bussing a thing that never happens?

If I read Quin as town and Sloonei as null as of a few pages before the end of yesterday and then Sloonei does a thing that makes me suspect him.

I know I'm town. If you pair me with someone I think is town as w/w suspects, either I or said townie can convince you and I don't have to worry about getting mislynched.

If you pair me with someone I think may be scum as w/w suspects, every scummy thing and an eventual mafia flip from that other guy just increases my chance of getting mislynched.

speedchuck wrote:

Quin wrote: I don't have an answer to that. I don't think that anybody who is bad plays a game with a constant baddie scheme in mind. To an extent baddies just play fallaciously and take advantage of things when the circumstances present themselves.

Whoa. You and I have very different ideas of how scum plays.

"This was not good play, and had a flaw, so it must be scum" is not how I (or anyone I've played with before) looks at the game. We generally look for motive and themes of alignment and genuine-ness vs fake-ness.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Quin wrote: Why is it weird? Some people don't vote for scum, because the train of thought leading them there never clicked. Sloonei's posts don't provide that train of thought, so for his vote to end up there doesn't sit well.

You can call him scummy for it. But to say that he shouldn't have voted for scum is weird.
Do we not want him to vote for scum?

Honestly, only reason I'm not calling him out right out the gate is that I can follow his logic. SOMETHING was not right about the lynches that were going on. Everyone could see it.
If he wanted a lynch to happen, Sloon had to switch to Dizzy or Marmot. He had posted twice issuing doubt on marmot before changing the vote.

I'm not pegging you as scum because I get your logic, but I think the odds are better that Sloonei gutread it.

I don't get this line of questioning. Your question only makes sense if you're reading him as civ. I'm not.

Pretend I'm civ for a moment then.

I don't believe you're the kind of person to hold back your concluding comments and opinions. If you're civ, this is an exceptional case to me.


linki: My face when 3J immediately discredits it as a tinfoil

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Quin wrote: Why is it weird? Some people don't vote for scum, because the train of thought leading them there never clicked. Sloonei's posts don't provide that train of thought, so for his vote to end up there doesn't sit well.

You can call him scummy for it. But to say that he shouldn't have voted for scum is weird.
Do we not want him to vote for scum?

Honestly, only reason I'm not calling him out right out the gate is that I can follow his logic. SOMETHING was not right about the lynches that were going on. Everyone could see it.
If he wanted a lynch to happen, Sloon had to switch to Dizzy or Marmot. He had posted twice issuing doubt on marmot before changing the vote.

I'm not pegging you as scum because I get your logic, but I think the odds are better that Sloonei gutread it.

I don't get this line of questioning. Your question only makes sense if you're reading him as civ. I'm not.

Pretend I'm civ for a moment then.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:There's one argument I've yet to see Sloonei make which would be fine with me, but he hasn't made it.

Which would that be? I've responded to everything you've said as honestly as I am able to.

Sloonei wrote:EBWOP

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:Just because you weren't caught up and weren't confident in your reads doesn't lead me to think you'd approach EoD as you did. Would you really fall into line like that, just because you weren't sure? Why would you lynch somebody who five minutes beforehand you were solidly reading as town? I strongly believe that's not a decision you would have made as a civilian.

Why not?

A personality read?


I'd also still like you to explain my behavior from the perspective that I am scum. So far you've pointed out that it's questionable. Okay. Now answer the questions. Why does baddie Sloonei act the way he does all day?

I don't have an answer to that. I don't think that anybody who is bad plays a game with a constant baddie scheme in mind. To an extent baddies just play fallaciously and take advantage of things when the circumstances present themselves.

speedchuck wrote:

Quin wrote: Why is it weird? Some people don't vote for scum, because the train of thought leading them there never clicked. Sloonei's posts don't provide that train of thought, so for his vote to end up there doesn't sit well.

You can call him scummy for it. But to say that he shouldn't have voted for scum is weird.
Do we not want him to vote for scum?

Honestly, only reason I'm not calling him out right out the gate is that I can follow his logic. SOMETHING was not right about the lynches that were going on. Everyone could see it.
If he wanted a lynch to happen, Sloon had to switch to Dizzy or Marmot. He had posted twice issuing doubt on marmot before changing the vote.

I'm not pegging you as scum because I get your logic, but I think the odds are better that Sloonei gutread it.

Sloonei wrote:Also Quin, I'd still like you to explain to me why "not being opposed" to the Dyslexicon case means I have to vote for him at crunch time. I was never opposed or committed to it. That was why I spent so much time engaging you and INH about the case. I think this should be very transparent and very obvious. That you are acting like I should have voted for Dizzy because I was curious about the case is a bit short-sighted. If I had any strong belief in the case, I would not have spent so much time probing it.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

nutella wrote:

Quin wrote:Your state of mind was boggled. Like the rest of us. That doesn't excuse you from lynching a 'solid town read' who you only began to see the other side of the coin on 5 minutes prior.

I think it's excusable given the situation. He needed to choose or nobody would be lynched. As long as he was starting to agree with some Marmot suspicion, that's enough for him to decide that lynching Marmot would be better than not lynching anyone (or than lynching dizzy if he changed his mind on that case as well).

I would not lynch a solid town read just so somebody was lynched, but that's just me.

Metalmarsh was no longer a solid town read when I voted for him. I think that should be obvious.

Five minutes is not a long enough time frame to decide to lynch a solid town read. I'd expect you to return to it tomorrow specifically because of how chaotic EoD was. It reeks of a bus.

@Dizzy We've got a good combo here. I'll be confident Quin who sounds like an asshole, and you can dissolve the tension with gifs To that end, I apologise if you want to punch me in the face for how I've gone after you Sloonei. I'm me.

It's plenty of time when everything is as sped up as they were yesterday. Once again I will remind you (and wait for you to acknowledge) that I had not even been in this game for 48 hours yet, and had had to read over 1000 posts while also maintaining my relatively high level of activity in the thread. That was a hyper-sped-up Day 1 for me. Why am I not allowed an abrupt change of mind at a crucial moment?

And please explain my mafia motivation to behave the way I did all day yesterday.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

nutella wrote:

Quin wrote:Your state of mind was boggled. Like the rest of us. That doesn't excuse you from lynching a 'solid town read' who you only began to see the other side of the coin on 5 minutes prior.

I think it's excusable given the situation. He needed to choose or nobody would be lynched. As long as he was starting to agree with some Marmot suspicion, that's enough for him to decide that lynching Marmot would be better than not lynching anyone (or than lynching dizzy if he changed his mind on that case as well).

I would not lynch a solid town read just so somebody was lynched, but that's just me.

Metalmarsh was no longer a solid town read when I voted for him. I think that should be obvious.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:Your state of mind was boggled. Like the rest of us. That doesn't excuse you from lynching a 'solid town read' who you only began to see the other side of the coin on 5 minutes prior.

Why is that inexcusable? What part of me is not allowed to change its mind? You just said that I was "boggled". I've described myself as scatterbrained. I had spent the entire day digging around in the thread and playing catch-up. I am not a lightning-speed processor. None of my reads were all that confident because I had just begun to formulate them a few hours earlier and I was committed to nothing. I find it bizarre that you wish to forbid me from lynching certain players. Your argument right now is that I should have voted for who you wanted me to vote for.

nutella wrote:

Quin wrote:Your state of mind was boggled. Like the rest of us. That doesn't excuse you from lynching a 'solid town read' who you only began to see the other side of the coin on 5 minutes prior.

I think it's excusable given the situation. He needed to choose or nobody would be lynched. As long as he was starting to agree with some Marmot suspicion, that's enough for him to decide that lynching Marmot would be better than not lynching anyone (or than lynching dizzy if he changed his mind on that case as well).

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:Something I wouldn't bring up in normal circumstances (but I think that this is a special case given how chaotic the thread was at EoD), but I saw Soneji viewing for thread at EoD and never posted.

linki: Your posts gave the impression that you'd have landed on a Dyslexicon or Scotty vote.

The more I talked to you and INH about the Dyslexicon case, the less I liked it. I think you should be able to trace this if you go back and read my posts. But I was also very frantic at the end of the day. Like I said a couple of times, yesterday was a regular Day 2 for everybody else, but for me it was a very rushed and hectic Day 1. I was still formulating my initial reads while everyone else was pushing their established suspects. When it appeared that Scotty was not going to have enough support to be lynched, I decided I preferred to take the mamot out than Dyslexicon.

I am intrigued that your first move out of the gate today has been to rail against a guy who just cast a crucial vote to lynch a scum player. Seems a bit counter-intuitive. Can we talk about how you pushed the case that was directly opposed to the lynching of said scum player all day?

There were multiple parts of my (and INH's) case against Dyslexicon. You explicitly said you liked and found my accusation re: her gambit compelling. The only thing you disagreed with was where I found her changing reads on 3J suspicious. Not liking how you condensed it into one entity to disagree with it.

Saying you cast a 'crucial' vote means nothing to me, because I question your motives.

I should have viewed the entirety of the case against a player as multiple things? What? I can agree and disagree with parts of a case, but in the end I can only choose one side on the case as a whole. In the heat of the moment, I decided I did not like it.

You seem to be an expert on my posts from last night. How would you describe my state of mind at the time?

Three major points, and your reactions to them:

- Dizzy did not follow up on her gambit the way a civ should: 'I like this post, I find it compelling'.
- Dizzy has inconsistent reads on 3J: 'I don't see the evidence'.
- Neutral player observation: 'It has some merit'

That's a net positive.

That's not how mafia works and you didn't answer my question.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:Something I wouldn't bring up in normal circumstances (but I think that this is a special case given how chaotic the thread was at EoD), but I saw Soneji viewing for thread at EoD and never posted.

linki: Your posts gave the impression that you'd have landed on a Dyslexicon or Scotty vote.

The more I talked to you and INH about the Dyslexicon case, the less I liked it. I think you should be able to trace this if you go back and read my posts. But I was also very frantic at the end of the day. Like I said a couple of times, yesterday was a regular Day 2 for everybody else, but for me it was a very rushed and hectic Day 1. I was still formulating my initial reads while everyone else was pushing their established suspects. When it appeared that Scotty was not going to have enough support to be lynched, I decided I preferred to take the mamot out than Dyslexicon.

I am intrigued that your first move out of the gate today has been to rail against a guy who just cast a crucial vote to lynch a scum player. Seems a bit counter-intuitive. Can we talk about how you pushed the case that was directly opposed to the lynching of said scum player all day?

There were multiple parts of my (and INH's) case against Dyslexicon. You explicitly said you liked and found my accusation re: her gambit compelling. The only thing you disagreed with was where I found her changing reads on 3J suspicious. Not liking how you condensed it into one entity to disagree with it.

Saying you cast a 'crucial' vote means nothing to me, because I question your motives.

I should have viewed the entirety of the case against a player as multiple things? What? I can agree and disagree with parts of a case, but in the end I can only choose one side on the case as a whole. In the heat of the moment, I decided I did not like it.

You seem to be an expert on my posts from last night. How would you describe my state of mind at the time?

Dyslexicon wrote:@Quin, Why did you purposefully lie in your statement about Sloonei when you thought he was being non-commital?

Dyslexicon wrote:

Quin wrote:u aint dead

Should I be?

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:Something I wouldn't bring up in normal circumstances (but I think that this is a special case given how chaotic the thread was at EoD), but I saw Soneji viewing for thread at EoD and never posted.

linki: Your posts gave the impression that you'd have landed on a Dyslexicon or Scotty vote.

The more I talked to you and INH about the Dyslexicon case, the less I liked it. I think you should be able to trace this if you go back and read my posts. But I was also very frantic at the end of the day. Like I said a couple of times, yesterday was a regular Day 2 for everybody else, but for me it was a very rushed and hectic Day 1. I was still formulating my initial reads while everyone else was pushing their established suspects. When it appeared that Scotty was not going to have enough support to be lynched, I decided I preferred to take the mamot out than Dyslexicon.

I am intrigued that your first move out of the gate today has been to rail against a guy who just cast a crucial vote to lynch a scum player. Seems a bit counter-intuitive. Can we talk about how you pushed the case that was directly opposed to the lynching of said scum player all day?

speedchuck wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote: I have an open question about the items. Should we talk about who has been getting them and not? I'm counting on scum to vote for each other to have it. Should town organize voting on someone to get the items? Don't know why we haven't discussed this.

I tried, but nobody cared to have that discussion.

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:What do you propose I should have done with my vote, Quin?

Not voted marmot. I don't believe that your reasons for voting there were genuine.

Just want to say that telling someone that they should not have voted for scum to get lynched is weird.
I get the point, that you think it was too out of the blue.
Still sounds weird.
And man, frigging go read mM's posts. If you can't get why he did it, then
Also was literally the only way to get a lynch through, aside from maybe Dizzy.

Sloonei wrote:

speedchuck wrote:I'll be around more for the second day of day.
Weekend time is hard to come by.
Will try to check in when I can.

I have thoughts on the lynch I can share real quick though:
mM might have been doing what I do as scum, by buddying with a town person. I doubt he would blatantly buddy with Scum INH, and there wasn't as much buddying going the other way from what I recall.
INH thus may still be town. Wine on that.

mM coming in might have saved scotty, honestly. Wine on that.

mM coming in to kill/bus dizzy might have happened as a motive. Wine on that.

Would be surprised if there wasn't another scum between the three, all things considered. Would like thoughts, at this point in the game, on these three people, as the lynch craziness is fresh in our minds.
I may not be around for much of the next 24 hours.

Nothing that has happened since the end of the day phase has convinced me that Scotty can't bad.

Nope. But Scotty is still alive, and Marmot was trying to get Dizzy dead instead of scotty. Wasn't trying to say he was changing your read. Just...

Does anyone have an explanation for marmot dayend play?

Sloonei wrote:What do you propose I should have done with my vote, Quin?

Quin wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:I wish Jack or JJJ was around. Sloonei is VERY non-commital as a leader.

This is abnormal for Sloonei, but I don't think that non-committal is an accurate description of his play so far.

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Scotty wrote:Them MM voters lookin real good right now by the by

Well done on catching him y'all

Them non-MM voters, on the other hand... Let's talk about Quin and insertnamehere.

I'd rather talk about you.

You don't lynch a 'solid town read'

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I am starting to doubt my marmot read.

This would be more useful if you had a read on me.

You've been a solid town read for about 5 hours now.

with two minutes to go during a lynch as hectic as that. You just don't.

You're right, I'll take that vote back.

The "solid town read" comment in that post was in the past tense. It's true I'd read him as town throughout the day. I changed my mind. I think we've agreed that changing one's mind is not suspicious behavior, right?

Dyslexicon wrote:Lynch INH

Sloonei wrote:

Scotty wrote:Them MM voters lookin real good right now by the by

Well done on catching him y'all

Them non-MM voters, on the other hand... Let's talk about Quin and insertnamehere.

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I am starting to doubt my marmot read.

This would be more useful if you had a read on me.

You've been a solid town read for about 5 hours now.

Silver Lantern wrote:Dyslexicon, Elohcin, Epignosis, insertnamehere, Jackofhearts2005, juliets, Metalmarsh89, nutella, Quin, Silver Lantern, Sloonei, Soneji, speedchuck, sprityo and 1 guest

Those are the people on ATM and NOT voting for Scotty or Dys for that matter.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:vote Scotty

I'd rather lynch Speed but only Dizzy agrees with me on him.

Not convinced by INH on Dizzy at all. Can't read Marmot for crap. Can't read Elih cause she's barely playing but I could see her w/w with Marmot if one of them flips.




So many linkis. If someone has a strong argument, point me to it fast.

nutella wrote:

Quin wrote:@INH I didn't like it either. Suggesting a INH or marmot lynch must happen before a Dys/3J lynch doesn't sit well with me, because that surely works the other way around.

It doesn't for me because I suspect Marmot/INH significantly more. And as I also said, I would feel less bad about mislynching a civ marmot than a civ Dys because Dys has been participating a lot and marmot hasn't.

Quin wrote:nutella expressed that INH and I were making her 'sad' and that she was 'disappointed' in Sloonei. Neither of those are stances on our alignments. Something to take with us to Day 3.

I am disappointed in Sloonei because he's been a pretty strong town read for me, I just disagree with a lot of his opinions today. Same goes for you but you're lower on my town list atm.

insertnamehere wrote:

Quin wrote:nutella expressed that INH and I were making her 'sad' and that she was 'disappointed' in Sloonei. Neither of those are stances on our alignments. Something to take with us to Day 3.

Nutella is my biggest scumread other than Dys right now.

Can you give some reasons why?


Guys, I know I'm being really crazy right now but that's because of the stress of this EOD and I'm kind of exaggerating my views in the heat of the moment. I might scale back on how I feel about INH/Marmot after some time to reflect, but I don't have any of that right now so instead I'm saying borderline extreme things because I'm worried about this lynch.

Silver Lantern wrote:I wish Jack or JJJ was around. Sloonei is VERY non-commital as a leader.

Elohcin wrote:

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Quin, who should I vote for?

I wouldn't recommend voted outside of those already on the poll. Decent cases have been made for everyone currently on it.

and who would that be?

I won't tell you that. I'd rather you make a decision on your own.

I just wanted to know who even had votes. Ah well..whatever. I'm over this game.

and the linki is INSANE....has been all hour.

AH....like 4ths linki and I finally see votals. really? votals? lord. I vote Elohcin


LINKI LINKI GAHHHHHH