The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I have not read up on why we ended up at a tie, but I see we have LoRab to thank for that. That all but confirms her as a townie, not that I had much doubt anymore. The biggest concern about Quin is that he's been too confident about Dom, obviously. Look at the rest of the townies who have been around for the last few days. We've all been hysterical, going back and forth trying to figure things out. But Quin has been 100% sure of Dom the whole time. Maybe he's right. Or maybe he just doesn't have that natural paranoia that comes with being town in a late game situation. Thank you for the delay, LoRab. I was feeling shaky myself but couldn't contribute anything. I hope we can work this out.
No, I'm probably not as paranoid as you or LoRab. I'm confident and I don't think I've ever been given a good reason for me to doubt my read. Dom's posts have barely anything in them that I can associate with townie behaviour. He's admitted he looks bad, but I mean, how can you look this bad without actually being bad?
So you know that I am town? Then why are you asking LoRab what she thinks of me?

As long as I believe Dom is bad then you obviously aren't. I'm asking LoRab because it's important, I want to discuss it, and I am listening to the alternatives.

LoRab, when I asked your reasoning for tying the vote, you said this:

LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:LoRab, what are these reasons? Please change your vote.
I can't explain right now. Please trust me. Unless you're bad.

Moving your vote off Dom means you're hesitating on suspecting Dom. Asking me to trust you infers that you're also hesitant to suspect me. I'm left to believe that you tied the vote because you think we're both bad lynches. Am I correct? What are your thoughts on both Sloonei and INH?

Sloonei wrote:I have not read up on why we ended up at a tie, but I see we have LoRab to thank for that. That all but confirms her as a townie, not that I had much doubt anymore. The biggest concern about Quin is that he's been too confident about Dom, obviously. Look at the rest of the townies who have been around for the last few days. We've all been hysterical, going back and forth trying to figure things out. But Quin has been 100% sure of Dom the whole time. Maybe he's right. Or maybe he just doesn't have that natural paranoia that comes with being town in a late game situation. Thank you for the delay, LoRab. I was feeling shaky myself but couldn't contribute anything. I hope we can work this out.

No, I'm probably not as paranoid as you or LoRab. I'm confident and I don't think I've ever been given a good reason for me to doubt my read. Dom's posts have barely anything in them that I can associate with townie behaviour. He's admitted he looks bad, but I mean, how can you look this bad without actually being bad?

LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:LoRab, what are these reasons? Please change your vote.
I can't explain right now. Please trust me. Unless you're bad.

I do trust you. But I don't understand you.

I guess we have a Day 11, at least.

Let's not lose based on emotional appeals from someone without an ounce of civ cred.

LoRab, what are these reasons? Please change your vote.

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Yes, I did. He was not confirmed at that point, and I expressed why I had my doubts and chose you over him.
He admitted to being bad.

You also did this with Glorfindel.

Explain to me how Glorfindel's meta standpoint on refusing to answer a question is a clear-cut scum-tell.

Are you caught up, Sloonei?

Sloonei wrote:Hey what's up?

Anything that isn't down.

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Indiglo-- LoRab.
Your first interaction about indiglo was well after the case against her had surfaced.
That wasn't her question.

I am answering her question.

Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Please, if yo uwant to win this game reconsider your votes.

I played a shit game and Quin played masterfully. If he's not bad then someone is fooling me hard. He has tried to end this game early on multiple occasions. Am I assuming the worst case? Yes. I want to win. I want us to win. I am a civvie. People could have searched their feelings earlier in the game and found me, but none did. I truly am alone in this game. You have seen a Dom play like crap.

Now, quin has repeatedly avoided the last two (read: all of them but elohcin) baddie lynches. Have I made the right calls always in this game? Heck no. Have I owned up to these mistakes? Yes. Quin has stood by his suspicion of me to try and end this game. He doesn't acknowledge that this is the exact strategy that Epi employed in the Glorfindel lynch. He is bad.
I have not tried to end this game through my vote for you. You're pushing this narrative that I made you into my lylo scapegoat, which is blatantly false. I stuck to my case on you because you looked no better than they did. I own that. I won't acknowledge it's the same strategy, because it's not. I think he voted you for an attempt to gain civ cred. I voted you because you're bad.
Weird how you both have the same record on the day where the baddie count went from 2-1.
What does this mean?
Weird how you and a confirmed baddie both voted against the confirmed baddie on the day that confirmed baddie made the baddies go into 1 lynch until loss.
We went into lylo after we lynched WIlgy, not Glorfindel.
That wasn't my point.
You voted against a confirmed baddie on the day that the baddie team became a team of one.

Yes, I did. He was not confirmed at that point, and I expressed why I had my doubts and chose you over him.

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Please, if yo uwant to win this game reconsider your votes.

I played a shit game and Quin played masterfully. If he's not bad then someone is fooling me hard. He has tried to end this game early on multiple occasions. Am I assuming the worst case? Yes. I want to win. I want us to win. I am a civvie. People could have searched their feelings earlier in the game and found me, but none did. I truly am alone in this game. You have seen a Dom play like crap.

Now, quin has repeatedly avoided the last two (read: all of them but elohcin) baddie lynches. Have I made the right calls always in this game? Heck no. Have I owned up to these mistakes? Yes. Quin has stood by his suspicion of me to try and end this game. He doesn't acknowledge that this is the exact strategy that Epi employed in the Glorfindel lynch. He is bad.
I have not tried to end this game through my vote for you. You're pushing this narrative that I made you into my lylo scapegoat, which is blatantly false. I stuck to my case on you because you looked no better than they did. I own that. I won't acknowledge it's the same strategy, because it's not. I think he voted you for an attempt to gain civ cred. I voted you because you're bad.
Weird how you both have the same record on the day where the baddie count went from 2-1.
What does this mean?
Weird how you and a confirmed baddie both voted against the confirmed baddie on the day that confirmed baddie made the baddies go into 1 lynch until loss.

We went into lylo after we lynched WIlgy, not Glorfindel.

Dom wrote:Indiglo-- LoRab.

Your first interaction about indiglo was well after the case against her had surfaced.

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Please, if yo uwant to win this game reconsider your votes.

I played a shit game and Quin played masterfully. If he's not bad then someone is fooling me hard. He has tried to end this game early on multiple occasions. Am I assuming the worst case? Yes. I want to win. I want us to win. I am a civvie. People could have searched their feelings earlier in the game and found me, but none did. I truly am alone in this game. You have seen a Dom play like crap.

Now, quin has repeatedly avoided the last two (read: all of them but elohcin) baddie lynches. Have I made the right calls always in this game? Heck no. Have I owned up to these mistakes? Yes. Quin has stood by his suspicion of me to try and end this game. He doesn't acknowledge that this is the exact strategy that Epi employed in the Glorfindel lynch. He is bad.
I have not tried to end this game through my vote for you. You're pushing this narrative that I made you into my lylo scapegoat, which is blatantly false. I stuck to my case on you because you looked no better than they did. I own that. I won't acknowledge it's the same strategy, because it's not. I think he voted you for an attempt to gain civ cred. I voted you because you're bad.
Weird how you both have the same record on the day where the baddie count went from 2-1.

What does this mean?

Dom wrote:Please, if yo uwant to win this game reconsider your votes.

I played a shit game and Quin played masterfully. If he's not bad then someone is fooling me hard. He has tried to end this game early on multiple occasions. Am I assuming the worst case? Yes. I want to win. I want us to win. I am a civvie. People could have searched their feelings earlier in the game and found me, but none did. I truly am alone in this game. You have seen a Dom play like crap.

Now, quin has repeatedly avoided the last two (read: all of them but elohcin) baddie lynches. Have I made the right calls always in this game? Heck no. Have I owned up to these mistakes? Yes. Quin has stood by his suspicion of me to try and end this game. He doesn't acknowledge that this is the exact strategy that Epi employed in the Glorfindel lynch. He is bad.

I have not tried to end this game through my vote for you. You're pushing this narrative that I made you into my lylo scapegoat, which is blatantly false. I stuck to my case on you because you looked no better than they did. I own that. I won't acknowledge it's the same strategy, because it's not. I think he voted you for an attempt to gain civ cred. I voted you because you're bad.

Dom wrote:
LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:
LoRab wrote:You're assuming that the night target would have been the same with a different lynch result, first off. Which doesn't necessarily hold true. But forget the past.

For your numbers for the present, you're assuming a successful night kill, which won't necessarily happen.
The names he used don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, the ratio is more important. It's true that the night kill might not be successful, but I think Dom's just painting the worst case scenario.
But he's painting it as definitive reality. I think he's trying to paint the worst case as what will happen so that we panic.

Although, do you think that if we lynch him, the baddies almost surely win?
Yes.

Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:I never criticised you for sitting out lynches. I have also been voting for you since before it would have won us the game. Tell me why it's a 'known' strategy of our team if I'm bad.
Because Rob did the same thing?
What are you even asking?
That doesn't tell me why it's a 'known' strategy. It sounds like you're trying to augment your case with buzz words.
Epi carried out the exact strategy out that you are. He is a known baddie. You are using, and have been using, the same tactic as him. what is unclear here? You are being purposefully obtuse.

Our approaches to that lynch were in no way even remotely similar, so even suggesting that its 'the exact same strategy' is just blatantly wrong. I don't even think Epi wanted you lynched that day tbqfh.

Quin wrote:
LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:
LoRab wrote:You're assuming that the night target would have been the same with a different lynch result, first off. Which doesn't necessarily hold true. But forget the past.

For your numbers for the present, you're assuming a successful night kill, which won't necessarily happen.
The names he used don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, the ratio is more important. It's true that the night kill might not be successful, but I think Dom's just painting the worst case scenario.
But he's painting it as definitive reality. I think he's trying to paint the worst case as what will happen so that we panic.

Although, do you think that if we lynch him, the baddies almost surely win?
I can't say whether that was what he was doing or not, but I do know that he's not strictly wrong in what he's saying.

If we lynch who? Dom? No, there's no way in hell he's town.
Says the guy who wanted to lynch me over Epi and Glorfindel.

Yup.

LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:
LoRab wrote:You're assuming that the night target would have been the same with a different lynch result, first off. Which doesn't necessarily hold true. But forget the past.

For your numbers for the present, you're assuming a successful night kill, which won't necessarily happen.
The names he used don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, the ratio is more important. It's true that the night kill might not be successful, but I think Dom's just painting the worst case scenario.
But he's painting it as definitive reality. I think he's trying to paint the worst case as what will happen so that we panic.

Although, do you think that if we lynch him, the baddies almost surely win?

I can't say whether that was what he was doing or not, but I do know that he's not strictly wrong in what he's saying.

If we lynch who? Dom? No, there's no way in hell he's town.

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:I never criticised you for sitting out lynches. I have also been voting for you since before it would have won us the game. Tell me why it's a 'known' strategy of our team if I'm bad.
Because Rob did the same thing?
What are you even asking?

That doesn't tell me why it's a 'known' strategy. It sounds like you're trying to augment your case with buzz words.

LoRab wrote:You're assuming that the night target would have been the same with a different lynch result, first off. Which doesn't necessarily hold true. But forget the past.

For your numbers for the present, you're assuming a successful night kill, which won't necessarily happen.

The names he used don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, the ratio is more important. It's true that the night kill might not be successful, but I think Dom's just painting the worst case scenario.

Dom is right, LoRab. INH can be considered a 'non-entity' if you like, because his vote doesn't count. That's if you believe INH is Silvertongue, which I do.

Quin wrote:My internet died for a while and now I have to go drop my brothers uniform at his work. I'll be gone for another 20 minutes or so.

Might be longer. He's got me going on a scavenger hunt for things that aren't where he says they are because he can't keep all his things organised. Won't answer his phone either

My internet died for a while and now I have to go drop my brothers uniform at his work. I'll be gone for another 20 minutes or so.

Quin wrote:Answer my question, Dom.

Dom wrote:If you lynched me instead of Glorfindel the game would have been over.
If you lynched me instead of Epignosis the game would have been over.

No it wouldn't. You're bad.

Answer my question, Dom.

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Quin wrote:I never criticised you for sitting out lynches. I have also been voting for you since before it would have won us the game. Tell me why it's a 'known' strategy of our team if I'm bad.

Only the last sentence makes sense.

And that's not true.

Lynching me instead of Glorfindel would have all but assured a win for the baddies.
Same with Epi.

It is true. I voted for you and pushed your lynch starting on Day 6. We were not at Lylo then.

Those were all supposed to be underlined, oh well.

Quin wrote:I never criticised you for sitting out lynches. I have also been voting for you since before it would have won us the game. Tell me why it's a 'known' strategy of our team if I'm bad.

What's your perspective on Dom's case on me, LoRab?

LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:I have also been voting for you since before it would have won us the game.
Wait...what....

I wrote that full post from the perspective that I was bad for Dom to comment on. It's not a scum slip.

I never criticised you for sitting out lynches. I have also been voting for you since before it would have won us the game. Tell me why it's a 'known' strategy of our team if I'm bad.

Sloonei wrote:I am starting to think it's Quin but I am at work and can't talk about things.

You should probably make time.

Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Where's all the posts, people?
Im here!

How bout them cubs?

That is a baseball team.

And that is everything I know about baseball.

Dom wrote:Quin, did you research this read or not?

No, for the fifth time.

Dom wrote:Quin, you are now backing it up with a back and forth. I thought it was just the GTH? You're waffling on this.

No. It was both from the very beginning.

Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Quinn is a liar.
I recalled a bunch of dialogue between you two and remembered 3J's GTH thing. Your post was more recent, though.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Night 3 GTH chart re-uploaded:

Spoiler: show
I still want to read you, just based on the fact that I haven't since I first subbed in.

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
LoRab wrote:
Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.
And why would I do that?
We basically got 2. I understand why a baddie would kill the one whose vote matters, but why would I, as a baddie, kill Jay?

Sloonei wrote: This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?
"In a way that is useful." I'd like to know what that means, Dom. If you're still reading this massive wall of text. Maybe I should mention in BIG COLORFUL LETTERS that I am asking you a question, Dom! And I'd like an answer, if you're capable. What were you hoping to get out of me here? On the one hand it seems you're just antagonizing me and trying to prove a point about my treatment of Epi ("why is Epi fully responsible..."), but in the previous sentence you suggest you are looking for specific game-relevant information out of me. Which is it? What was your motivation here?

After this, Dom goes on a mini crusade where he starts demanding I answer his question, but I am still unclear on why this was such a huge deal or what was unsatisfactory about my many responses. When I pointed out to him that "who are you gonna vote for" is just a routine question I ask people in this game, he swats it away by saying the context is different, and continues to go about demanding something out of me that is equal parts unclear and unfair. At the time I thought Dom was just flustered, but in retrospect he looks to simply be aggressively opposed to and stubbornly refusing anything that can be said against him. And I don't think that's a good look. I'm still not familiar with what past-scum Dom looks like, but I have seen plenty of scum performances that look like this from other players.

For the sake of cutting this post off and getting some thoughts into the thread, I'll leave it at this. If you don't feel like reading everything I just typed (and you certainly don't have to), my conclusion is this: Day 6 Dom looks like an over-defensive baddie who was unwilling to engage honestly with both Quin and myself. I left out his later accusations against Quin, but I think we're all familiar with them by now. My hope with this post was that I could gain a more neutral perspective of Quin and Dom, but I just came out of it feeling more strongly that Dom is bad and, therefore, Quin is good. I'm putting my vote on Dom, but this decision is by no means final.
Sloonei, I have played a terrible game. I will admit to it. I have made plenty of mistakes. I have let out of game frustrations aggrevate me in this game. I have been wrong about just about everyone. I look bad. I know it.
But I'm not.

I really thought we settled these questions, but I'll go through this once more.

I kept pushing this because I didn't trust you at the time. I thought you might be trying to get Epig lynched because you saw low participation-- easy lynch. I was very wrong. I've been very wrong more than I've been very right in this game. I wanted to see if you could provide the same information Epig was providing you. You did not, in my opinion, do that. We have since agreed that there was some sort of misunderstanding.

Does that answer your question?
It does but it doesn't answer the question. I'm sorry, I'm not sure there is much more you can say. But I'm still left feeling unconvinced. If this is all honest then I appreciate it and it's all understandable. But in this game right now it looks like the answer of a baddie who has no place left to hide. I wish there were more people in the game so I could ask you for reads or something, but we're here and there's not much room to work with.

What would you say has been the strongest conviction your townie self has held in this game and why?
My scum read of MP.
I was really wrong, but I really thought I was right.

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:There is one aspect of Day 6 that is bugging me about Quin, and that is that initial suspicion post where he says Dom was suspect because Mac had suspected him. It's been covered and we know that Quin acknowledged his mistake, but I'd still like to know if we could identify where that mistake originated. Has that been explained yet?
Yeah. A few pages before you asked me the question 3J had reposted his GTH read analysis where Mac had scum-read Dom. That and the dialogue that the two of them had brought me to that conclusion.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... &start=160

ok ignore day 2 as well as mac's final read on me too.

I see you're still ignoring the fact that my read was not researched.

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Why are you so sure I'm town?
Because Dom isn't. Other than that, you haven't impressed me in any notable way. I'm currently remedying that, but I'm looking at LoRab's posts first, because there's less of them.
...what the hell is this?

I don't know. What the hell is this?

Believe it or not that post took two hours, so now it's late and I want to go to bed. :P

I'll be around for EoD, more than likely.

Probably the most notable part of Sloonei's and Elohcin's interactions is Sloonei's Days 1 & 3 votes. During Day 1, Sloonei placed a vote on Eloh, moved it around a few times and then voted her again at the EoD. The original vote for Eloh was at a point where the opportunity for an early bus existed. However, his final vote was the first on Eloh. Sloonei was the first to put a vote on LoRab on Day 3, and was among the first to construct an actual case against her. I could interpret this as one baddie creating a counter wagon in order to protect their Eloh teammate. There are some strong signs that would indicate Sloonei being Eloh's teammate.

Sloonei appeared to be consistently 'meh' about Glorfindel until around Day 6. I can understand that given that Glorfindel wasn't really 'here' until around Day 4. Sloonei addresses the 'Glorfindel won't answer 3J's question' case once or twice, even suggesting that he appreciates the 'I refuse to answer that question' stance - but his read on him is developed from a hundred things outside of that. He also doesn't entertain the town-read for Glorfindel based on Eloh's misrecollection to the same level as LoRab does. I think it's unlikely that they're teammates.

Sloonei's read on zebra evolved from a Day 1 vote to a top(ish) town read up until she was replaced. I don't see any dialogue between the two that make me lean any particular way in regards to whether they could be teammates. Sloonei held a relatively strong level of suspicion for Epi after he replaced back in. Although, of all of Sloonei's reads that I'm familiar with I'd say that his Epi read fluctuated the most. He tried to garner interest in an Epi lynch on Day 6 through multiple posts over the course of the day, so I have my doubts that it was just an attempt at distancing. I'd say a teammate relationship here is feasible.

Sloonei wrote:Gotcha. Now do me.

At least buy me a drink first.

I will tonight. Dinner will be ready shortly and I'd rather not be interrupted halfway through.

Sloonei wrote:Of course Dom and LoRab don't have BTSC. There is only one baddie left.

No, I'm saying that because Dom and LoRab don't have BTSC, and Dom has more mafia BTSC links than LoRab, the last baddie is less likely to be LoRab than before.

In reading LoRab, her interactions with Eloh make it quite clear that they do not share BTSC. I still firmly believe that. I think the possibility exists for her to share BTSC with Glorfindel, because her reads on him are often skewed with uncertainty or weak defence based on Elohcin's misremembering about Glorfindel's not-replacement, seen in these posts:

Spoiler: show

LoRab wrote:Shit. I need to say something suspicious, too many people think I'm civ and that makes me uncomfortable, lol. Also, Mac and I are civ reading each other? That's just effed up. That said, Sloonei and INH haven't been around to rouse suspicion of me, so I should be ok.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:LoRab, I have two questions for you:

1. Which two players do you think are least likely to be bad?

2. Which two players do you think are most likely to be bad?
1. You and Motel Room--You because I'm tending to agree with you on your content and I think your thinking makes more sense from a civ perspective than a bad one. Him because his vote in the last lynch would be strategically a bad choice, and I find it highly unlikely that a member of the mafia would do that and give their teammate what could potentially be the deciding vote. Glorf is probably tied with Motel Room because I don't think it is all that likely that Elo would have not known that a teammate hadn't been replaced.

2. Number one is definitely INH. The second slot is harder for me. Indiglo, Dom, Sprityo (whom I haven't mentioned before, but have appreciated the posts and insight about--I don't think I've played with them before--maybe 1 game, but I don't remember--so I don't know how to read them at all), and Wilgy are all in the running.

Maybe I'll try the whole rainbow list thing.

motel room wrote:
Yeah I think so. I think you're good. Early on I wasn't sure cos you said a couple things that irked me and I pointed them out but (and I know this isn't PC Principal) when I saw you weren't male they looked more genuine to me and I started to see you in a different light.

With this, if you were bad you can't outright say you're bad here obvs but having this line of thinking sets me up as a potential scapegoat and I think you'd be more waffly about me and my intentions about my vote.

So, cool, nice brain.
It's not non-PC at all, to me at least. It totally makes sense--men and women tend to behave and speak differently, and it's only fair to use that as a factor in reading posts.

Spoiler: show

LoRab wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
LoRab wrote:I've been consistent enough in my thought that he's bad that I didn't really feel the need to say it again at that point.
Perhaps a little too consistent. Your focus in recent phases has been narrowed enough that it has inhibited your engagement with the broader scope of discussion, and that's beneficial to you if you're bad.

LoRab
I tend to have tunnel vision when I latch onto a suspect. That has not inhibited my engagement. My schedule IRL, on the other hand, has limited my time. I'm going away tomorrow and have been swamped at work getting everything in place for me to be away. Plus, it's a trip that requires a bunch of prep work. But I have some time tonight to play.

I don't know how to convince you that I'm civ. But if it's just that I'm stubborn and continue to suspect INH, then I don't really know what to say. Yes, I still suspect him. But that's not indicative of anything other than my suspecting him.

As for other suspects...

I could reconsider Glorf. I hadn't been suspecting him because of his vote in the Elo lynch, but maybe he would vote for a counterwagon in the end of a lynch in hopes of saving a teammate. It seemed unlikely at the time, but maybe it was done because it was unlikely, and because it presented a chance for a save. On the other hand, I still find it unlikely (thinking back) because of the Elo confusion of who had been replaced and who hadn't--it read like an honest error; and I find it hard to believe that a baddie would forget who was on their team. So, that makes me doubt Glorf is bad. So, I'd like to hear explanations of how that could make sense for Elo to have thought Glorf was replaced if Glorf were on her team.

Wilgy, I had suspected a bit back--I need to look back at my posts to remember why. I think it was in part that he celebrated the death of a civ in the thread, which is inherently suspish to me, but I seem to remember there was something else to my eyeballing him.

Sloonei I have had a basic neutral read of for most of the game. He's been very active, so I want to assume civ. But he actively pushed for the Elo counter-wagon, so that doesn't seem great. Now, given that said wagon was against me, means that I can't help but read that personally, so I recognize that colors my reading of it, so I'm also hesitant to suspect him because of it. But maybe I shouldn't hesitate. Maybe he's the wolf that's been hiding in sheep's clothing. I'm not ready to really go down that road yet, but it's a suspicion that's been growing in the back of my mind.

Scotty has seemed civ since he started participating, but he can be wiley, so an eyeball is still there. Knowing that Indiglo took suspicion because she didn't participate much as a sub in, it's possible that a baddie subbing in would actively decide to do the opposite. He hasn't done anything to make me suspect him, but an eye is there just because he is smart enough to be careful subbing in--especially into a role that had the majority of players, IIRC, ready to lynch them.

Dom, I'm currently reading as civ, based entirely on vibe. I mention this because I had suspected him earlier. I've gone back and forth, but I'm not currently suspecting him.

I have some residual suspicion of Epi because I had some vague suspicion of zebra, but I need to look back to remember why. My brain is mushy enough at the moment that I'm not recalling why I had any suspicion there. If I recall, it was more neutral read and therefore not sure if civ than baddie read. So, I guess that's still neutral.

Everyone else is between civ and neutral.

However, I also feel strongly that LoRab and Dom do not share BTSC, and in Dom's case, there's reasons to believe that he could be teammates with either Eloh, Glorfindel or Epi. So I come out of this still confident that LoRab is civ.

Actually, that's wrong. I remember voting Wilgy in order to save you at one point. I must have had a reason for that.

Sloonei wrote:Why are you so sure I'm town?

Because Dom isn't. Other than that, you haven't impressed me in any notable way. I'm currently remedying that, but I'm looking at LoRab's posts first, because there's less of them.

Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I'm gonna ask Quin that same question, with the caveat that it be his strongest non-Dom conviction from this game.
Excluding my town-reads for 3J and INH for host post reasons, my scum-read for Eloh.
That came about pretty quickly. Why were you so confident so early?

It did. I thought my case against her was strong, and there were a number of other ideas put out by people that implicated her which helped to supplement my read.

Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:There is one aspect of Day 6 that is bugging me about Quin, and that is that initial suspicion post where he says Dom was suspect because Mac had suspected him. It's been covered and we know that Quin acknowledged his mistake, but I'd still like to know if we could identify where that mistake originated. Has that been explained yet?
Yeah. A few pages before you asked me the question 3J had reposted his GTH read analysis where Mac had scum-read Dom. That and the dialogue that the two of them had brought me to that conclusion.
What dialogue are you referring to?
Nothing specific. I just recalled that they had a back and forth.
Who is they? When about did it occur?

Dom and Mac. Before 3J posted his GTH spreadsheet the second time.

Sloonei wrote:I'm gonna ask Quin that same question, with the caveat that it be his strongest non-Dom conviction from this game.

Excluding my town-reads for 3J and INH for host post reasons, my scum-read for Eloh.

Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:There is one aspect of Day 6 that is bugging me about Quin, and that is that initial suspicion post where he says Dom was suspect because Mac had suspected him. It's been covered and we know that Quin acknowledged his mistake, but I'd still like to know if we could identify where that mistake originated. Has that been explained yet?
Yeah. A few pages before you asked me the question 3J had reposted his GTH read analysis where Mac had scum-read Dom. That and the dialogue that the two of them had brought me to that conclusion.
What dialogue are you referring to?

Nothing specific. I just recalled that they had a back and forth.

Sloonei wrote:There is one aspect of Day 6 that is bugging me about Quin, and that is that initial suspicion post where he says Dom was suspect because Mac had suspected him. It's been covered and we know that Quin acknowledged his mistake, but I'd still like to know if we could identify where that mistake originated. Has that been explained yet?

Yeah. A few pages before you asked me the question 3J had reposted his GTH read analysis where Mac had scum-read Dom. That and the dialogue that the two of them had brought me to that conclusion.

LoRab wrote:And, Elo, well played. You played the evil role well. I'm sorry personally that I figured out that you were bad and had to go after you--just like you were playing your evil role, I'm playing my civ role. And that role is to kill all the bad people.

How does everyone feel about this? It's a weird sort of apology that I'm reading as genuine. I think it's well elaborated to the point where if it were a bus I think it would be better suited to BTSC chat.

Dom wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.
And why would I do that?
We basically got 2. I understand why a baddie would kill the one whose vote matters, but why would I, as a baddie, kill Jay?

You just answered your own question. Plus, it's one less confirmed civilian on the lynch poll.

Sloonei wrote: This doesn't answer the question in any way that is useful. AGain, why is Epi fully responsible for knowing who he's voting for the second his top suspect dies but you are not?
"In a way that is useful." I'd like to know what that means, Dom. If you're still reading this massive wall of text. Maybe I should mention in BIG COLORFUL LETTERS that I am asking you a question, Dom! And I'd like an answer, if you're capable. What were you hoping to get out of me here? On the one hand it seems you're just antagonizing me and trying to prove a point about my treatment of Epi ("why is Epi fully responsible..."), but in the previous sentence you suggest you are looking for specific game-relevant information out of me. Which is it? What was your motivation here?

After this, Dom goes on a mini crusade where he starts demanding I answer his question, but I am still unclear on why this was such a huge deal or what was unsatisfactory about my many responses. When I pointed out to him that "who are you gonna vote for" is just a routine question I ask people in this game, he swats it away by saying the context is different, and continues to go about demanding something out of me that is equal parts unclear and unfair. At the time I thought Dom was just flustered, but in retrospect he looks to simply be aggressively opposed to and stubbornly refusing anything that can be said against him. And I don't think that's a good look. I'm still not familiar with what past-scum Dom looks like, but I have seen plenty of scum performances that look like this from other players.

For the sake of cutting this post off and getting some thoughts into the thread, I'll leave it at this. If you don't feel like reading everything I just typed (and you certainly don't have to), my conclusion is this: Day 6 Dom looks like an over-defensive baddie who was unwilling to engage honestly with both Quin and myself. I left out his later accusations against Quin, but I think we're all familiar with them by now. My hope with this post was that I could gain a more neutral perspective of Quin and Dom, but I just came out of it feeling more strongly that Dom is bad and, therefore, Quin is good. I'm putting my vote on Dom, but this decision is by no means final.

Sloonei, I have played a terrible game. I will admit to it. I have made plenty of mistakes. I have let out of game frustrations aggrevate me in this game. I have been wrong about just about everyone. I look bad. I know it.
But I'm not.

I really thought we settled these questions, but I'll go through this once more.

I kept pushing this because I didn't trust you at the time. I thought you might be trying to get Epig lynched because you saw low participation-- easy lynch. I was very wrong. I've been very wrong more than I've been very right in this game. I wanted to see if you could provide the same information Epig was providing you. You did not, in my opinion, do that. We have since agreed that there was some sort of misunderstanding.

Does that answer your question?

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
You've strongly suspected everyone still alive at one point or another. I'm not sure what your point is. I think you killed the confirmed civilian, not your biggest supporter.
What compelled you to feel more strongly about your suspicion of Dom yesterday than the case against Epi and his concession?
I'll elaborate on this post:

Quin wrote:That's the thing. I'm not arguing against your case. I'm arguing that mine is stronger. I don't know what his civilian motivation for this is, but I also don't know what his mafia motivation is. We may very well be discussing both baddies, but we only have one chance and I'm pushing for the stronger case.
Aside from the concession, the most suspicious things I found in Epi's posts were the teammate interactions he had with Dom. My Dom case is significantly more tangible. In respect to Epi's concession, I had my doubts as to his motivation. Firstly, I don't understand the motivation for either a civilian or mafia to throw the game at Lylo, because in either situation he's screwing over his teammates. Secondly, I didn't have Epi pegged as the kind of guy that would throw the game after being suspected. So when he did, I was confused. And that doubt kept me on Dom. If I'd known he was going through what he is it might have affected how I felt about his concession, but that's in hindsight.

Aside from him admitting he is bad???????
Like?????

DId you read that post?

Sloonei wrote:I noticed in one of the posts you pointed out that zebra had, at one point, placed Dom at the very top of her rainbow. Is this something that you necessarily find suspicious? That's a pretty strong connection for zebra to create if they're both bad.

Perhaps Zebra was buddying me. I think Zebra does not like how I helped lynch her in Star Wars and might do that. I don't know.

Sloonei wrote:Dom, your general thoughts would also be great right now. You've expressed some doubt that Quin is the last scum. If not him, then who is it? What are your thoughts on each of us right now?

At this point, if it's not him, it HAS to be you, but I don't see HOW it's you either.
So it HAS to be Quinn.

LoRab wrote:
Sloonei wrote:You're a strong town read and have been for a long time. If that was a lie, it's not one worth telling.
You mention wanting to read me an awful lot for someone who thought of me as strong town for a long time, but I accept. It's the mafia paranoia talking. I've suspected you on and off this entire game, but the more I read your posts in retrospect, the more I think you are town.

On the other hand...

Dom wrote:Did I systematically kill all of my suspects until now and then decide, nah, I'll kill my biggest supporter [read one of few people showing open mindedness about my status].
Yes, yes I think you did. This is pure WIFOM. And you just earned my vote.

I'm asking you to analyze the Night Kills. Do you they make sense if I am bad? I don't think they do. Continually undercutting my own arguments and setting myself up for the position I'm currently in where everyone thinks I'm bad? Killing SVS and MP early on? Leaving YOU still alive at this point?

Is this really the baddie Dom you know, LoRab?[/quote]

Search found 334 matches