The Syndicate

LoRab wrote:To be fair, DH, that was a serious misuse of the word literally.

Quin wrote:
I define trustworthiness as being loyal to people who deserve it.
Then we have different definitions.

Quin wrote:
LoRab wrote:And please, enlighten me.
You're going to have to earn it.
If you're going to make an offer than involves my voting for someone that I promised I wouldn't vote against, then it's a no go. My integrity is worth more than some alleged information. Nice try, though.

I didn't make you an offer. You can do what you like.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Quin wrote:What do you think you have, DH? I pointed the tribe to strategies. Said strategies were the same as many of the ones you were implementing on your own. And this isn't even the context of the beef we're having.
You said I oversold what I contributed to the challenge. You also said "Half" of what I contributed, you directed the thread to do first.

What I did:
- Placed the items
- Came up with the grid
- Helped to direct people to their assigned grids
- Through practicing the above strategy, hit the oar on my first guess.
- Provided a colored grid so people like Eloh could follow along easier

My questions are, which you haven't I don't think answered adequately, How have I oversold what I did, and what parts of what I did do you expect to take credit for based on "directing the thread" via the remarks "I looked up a battleship strategy that gives a couple of tips"

You placed items in a risky manner. If you'd looked at said strategies you'd have known one of the biggest tips is 'DON'T PUT BLOCKS SIDE BY SIDE'

Okay. You came up with the grid. See above.

You got the ore based entirely on luck. It is nothing more. It will never be anything more than luck. A 1 in 64 chance.

You can have being helpful. You can have the colour grid too. But INH and SVS did grids too, and you weren't the only one helping people like me catch up.

This isn't about me. Don't ask for 'my credit'.

Plus the whole everyone being sick thing. The reward we *might* get is no excuse.

A 'loyal' ally would not be out searching for an immunity idol while his tribe mate was two challenges away from running out of energy.

What do you think you have, DH? I pointed the tribe to strategies. Said strategies were the same as many of the ones you were implementing on your own. And this isn't even the context of the beef we're having.

LoRab wrote:And please, enlighten me.

You're going to have to earn it.

LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:All you've done is reiterate the same debunked contributions. You did nothing today that anybody else either didn't already or couldn't do. You've also proved that you're completely untrustworthy as a tribemate. Strength of integrity matters just as much as challenge ability.
Sometimes, it's the reverse.

In fact, DH has demonstrated integrity in keeping his word to people to whom he has given his word. Are you suggesting that he go back on his word and break promises? Is taking back a promise to protect another individual how you define trustworthiness?

Quin wrote:Your dishonesty and hierarchy are making this tribe look pretty weak right now.
I disaagree, Quin. I think our openness and loyalty is what makes this tribe strong.

I define trustworthiness as being loyal to people who deserve it.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Quin wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.
I wasn't here for the bulk of it, so I can't. I'm just not going to oversell what I have done like you are.
You quite literally said I aped your strategy when all you did was say the words "there are battleship strategies"

False.

LoRab wrote:EBWOP: That you didn't like the strategies that were used, and that the strategies you had in mind weren't used.

linkitis: Apparently didn't need the EBWOP.

But how could they have been discussed if no one knew what they were? There was discussion of how to play. DH made a suggestion of how to place the tiles, which was a strategy based suggestion, and asked for input before submitting it. There was discussion of how to strategize searches. It included an article online, which I assume SVS found on a google search. What that you suggested wasn't talked about in figuring out how to approach the challenge?

And DH didn't throw you under the bus as a vote candidate. He suggested that you were one of 2 people he is considering for the vote. As I've shared, I'm in the same boat as he is. I value loyalty and I've given my word to people. It's not a tribe thing, it's an individual word thing.

This isn't mafia, so throwing under the bus doesn't really carry the same weight (no pun intended) and we need to vote for someone. Would you have preferred there be no discussion of the vote? How would you have preferred the vote discussion to happen?

I know the dynamic isn't the same. I'm not treating this as the same thing as mafia. But the fact remains that you may staked your word on it, but he is not somebody who can be trusted to work for the good of this tribe. You are not in his long term future, LoRab. I tell you this because I know who is.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Quin wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.
I wasn't here for the bulk of it, so I can't. I'm just not going to oversell what I have done like you are.
You keep saying I'm overselling what I did, but you can't point out how.

I did like three times.

DharmaHelper wrote:EBWOP: As a matter of fact, if you can explain to me what you did during today's challenge that someone else "couldn't have or didn't already", I'm more than happy to listen.

I wasn't here for the bulk of it, so I can't. I'm just not going to oversell what I have done like you are.

Your dishonesty and hierarchy are making this tribe look pretty weak right now.

LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:
LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:LoRab, the only thing missing that distinguishes 'suggesting strategies' and saying 'there are strategies' is me copy and pasting the damn thing on the thread. I told you to find them and by the looks of it nobody actually did.
What makes you think that no one looked at strategies? The items were placed based on strategy and the items were searched for based on strategy. There are multiple strategies for battleship that exist. The strategies chosen may not be the ones you would have chosen. They may not even be the ones that you found in the article you read in the quick google search you did. But that doesn't mean that someone else didn't find an article in a different google search. SVS even posted an article (demonstrating that it's factually untrue that nobody actually did).

The difference between "suggesting strategies" and "there are strategies" is that clearly you had a particular strategy in mind, and you are not happy that it was not the strategy that was used. But no one had any way of knowing what your opinion was about which strategy you would have preferred based on the one you read about because you didn't say which one it was. Therefore, someone using a different strategy (whether known through a google search or through life and playing battleship and already knowing strategy that exists) cannot imply that they didn't act strategically.

And you cannot claim that you made suggestions of what strategy should be used. Until you said differently, there was no way for anyone to know that you wouldn't have done things in exactly the same way, based on what you had posted before you went to bed.
I don't care that the strategies I had in mind weren't used. Not once did I say that.
No, but you've said that you suggested people look at strategies and clearly they didn't. What makes you believe that is true, other than the fact that you didn't like the strategies you had in mind?

Because nobody talked about them, and because DH never regarded my contributions when he threw me under the bus as a vote candidate.

LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:LoRab, the only thing missing that distinguishes 'suggesting strategies' and saying 'there are strategies' is me copy and pasting the damn thing on the thread. I told you to find them and by the looks of it nobody actually did.
What makes you think that no one looked at strategies? The items were placed based on strategy and the items were searched for based on strategy. There are multiple strategies for battleship that exist. The strategies chosen may not be the ones you would have chosen. They may not even be the ones that you found in the article you read in the quick google search you did. But that doesn't mean that someone else didn't find an article in a different google search. SVS even posted an article (demonstrating that it's factually untrue that nobody actually did).

The difference between "suggesting strategies" and "there are strategies" is that clearly you had a particular strategy in mind, and you are not happy that it was not the strategy that was used. But no one had any way of knowing what your opinion was about which strategy you would have preferred based on the one you read about because you didn't say which one it was. Therefore, someone using a different strategy (whether known through a google search or through life and playing battleship and already knowing strategy that exists) cannot imply that they didn't act strategically.

And you cannot claim that you made suggestions of what strategy should be used. Until you said differently, there was no way for anyone to know that you wouldn't have done things in exactly the same way, based on what you had posted before you went to bed.

I don't care that the strategies I had in mind weren't used. Not once did I say that.

All you've done is reiterate the same debunked contributions. You did nothing today that anybody else either didn't already or couldn't do. You've also proved that you're completely untrustworthy as a tribemate. Strength of integrity matters just as much as challenge ability.

Another question: Why can't we bring you up if we're discussing votes? You aren't leading this tribe.

I wouldn't be reluctant to vote for one of my own numbers. I'm only concerned with votes that strengthen the tribe. We haven't merged. We're not ready to cannibalise ourselves.

DFaraday wrote:DH, are you saying that from here on out you will only vote for me, Quin, or SVS? It sounds to me like we're not a unified new tribe after all, it's still us original Atamais alongside Manamanamanas, we're just all in the same location. I would like for us all to work together, but if we're to be second class citizens in our tribe, I don't see how that's going to work.

As for the challenge, yes I took a long time. Scotty's instructions made me think the only effect was game-based time. I've never played a Mafia game (not that this is really Mafia) where the amount of time it takes you to do something in real life directly translates to time in the game. Now I know better. If you want to lynch me for misunderstanding a game mechanic on Day 1 so be it.

Also, I doubt that earlier epidemic is the only sickness that will come up this game. If you guys want to get rid of your doctor already you're just handicapping yourselves.

This is a glaringly obvious theme to your strategy, DH. That's not something we need on this tribe.

LoRab, the only thing missing that distinguishes 'suggesting strategies' and saying 'there are strategies' is me copy and pasting the damn thing on the thread. I told you to find them and by the looks of it nobody actually did.

DharmaHelper wrote:Also, I'm not "rejecting your efforts" Quin. We're on the same team here, I'm asking you what those efforts were.

Fine. I've since shown you my efforts. Next time I'd advise you not to reveal your PoE before you ask the important questions. This is what happens.

4 and 5 still mean nothing. You are by no means a stronger or more reliable player than the rest of us because of what you did in those two instances. Both of them were pure probability.

@linki - I did not say that. You chose to ignore my personal contributions. This is my response.

DharmaHelper wrote:Well now, hold on, let's be fair about this. Is this the post you mentioned?

Quin wrote:These time zone differences are worse than I thought

Going to bed. I looked up a battleship strategy that gives a couple of tips that might help with placement and also searching. Might be a good idea for people to have a look before making any decisions.
Because, there's nothing here but the words "a battleship strategy". Nothing about quadrants. Nothing about picking diagonally (which I suggested based on the article *SVS* posted and her own desire/experience to use the diagonal strategy.) Nothing about taking turns, or dialing in on items, or using a grid with a color code.

Ask anyone from Manama, I'm the first person to give out fair dues, but taking credit for stuff you didn't do, that's a no-no.

http://www.ultrabattleship.com/tips.php

Don't reject my efforts because you couldn't do a google search.

The grid is the only thing you have going for you. Thank you for that.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Quin wrote:I might be inclined to vote for you. Why weren't you helping around camp today? I think you were being sneaky, and were looking for an idol. I think that enough shows that even while you and the rest of the tribe were sick you were more interested in your own self-preservation than helping at camp.
I think after putting together the winning strategy to give us food and water via reward, busting ass during the challenge, being the first person to find an item, I earned a nice stroll through camp, don't you?

I may not have gone fishing, or gone to get water, but my performance in the challenge provided us with both. And now we have eggs.

Is there anyone else you've got an eye on?

Got a problem with this too. Half the stuff you presented as the 'winning strategy' was stuff I'd already directed the tribe to in my goodnight post. You alone didn't win us the reward, in fact I think you screwed up more than anybody else by putting two of our biggest blocks together. That could have gone horribly wrong.

Finding the first item was a matter of probability. It doesn't earn you anything in my book.

Are you suggesting that because you found eggs you were valuable to the tribe? Unless you knew that by going there you'd find a chicken, you didn't. You got lucky. Or am I wrong?

I might be inclined to vote for you. Why weren't you helping around camp today? I think you were being sneaky, and were looking for an idol. I think that enough shows that even while you and the rest of the tribe were sick you were more interested in your own self-preservation than helping at camp.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Quin wrote:I'll answer you seriously. I think you're undervaluing my own contributions to the tribe. I wasn't here for the start of the challenge because I couldn't be. Otherwise, even while nobody else is here, I'm putting strategies forward and I'm putting my foot first to take care of the tribe.
I made no comments on your contributions, I wanted to let you have the floor before I did that. But you can't argue that what I said about SVS, INH, and myself taking charge of the challenge wasn't true.

It's possible you're right, and you do put strategies forward, and you do have the tribes best interest at heart. I'm a newcomer here, so I'd need to see that for myself or let you make your case.

While I have your attention, something's been nagging at me about the first challenge. From Scotty's write up, it sounded like DFaraday cost you guys the challenge. Scotty wrote that he "fell asleep" and that "the gap [left after the puzzle] was too much to make up."

So my question is, was that a 1-to-1 translation of what went down? And if so, why did you not, as a tribe, vote for DFaraday?

By not saying anything you said a lot. And I can't just ignore that you've painted me as one of two people who could get the axe tonight.

DF took a long time to do the water puzzle, but we voted sig because he was a no show. It was an easy choice.

I'll answer you seriously. I think you're undervaluing my own contributions to the tribe. I wasn't here for the start of the challenge because I couldn't be. Otherwise, even while nobody else is here, I'm putting strategies forward and I'm putting my foot first to take care of the tribe.

You put my name up.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Quin wrote:Tell you what though, you've got spunk to come out swinging early on like that.
Is that a bat joke?

It's whatever you want it to be. Question is, should I forgive you?

Tell you what though, you've got spunk to come out swinging early on like that.

DharmaHelper wrote:
It's that time again. My Mamana brothers and sisters are familiar with what comes next, but you Atamai's are in for a treat. I like to mull over who it is we should vote for in the thread. I will offer my opinion first:

Firstly, I won't be voting for nor advocating a DH vote. I think I provided valuable aid in the challenge today. Not only did i hide our items, but I provided the quadrant strategy, found the oar, and provided a helpful visual aid to keep us on track. This is the sort of hustle, leadership, and competitive edge you can get used to with me over on this side of the island.

Now, I also won't be voting for SVS. Next to me and INH she was right there ready to go and kill this challenge. Not only that, but I gotta respect the Atamai leadership. I'm reaching across the aisle here, extending an olive branch.

Now that being said, I definitely won't be voting for LoRab or Eloh either. I made a vow to everyone on the Mamana beach that I would watch their backs, and I intend to honor that. Loyalty is the most important thing. I won't even entertain the possibility of maybe even considering thinking about voting for a former Mamana.

Which leaves us with Quin and DFaraday. Now, I dunno how you did things before we got here, but I'm fair enough to let you both get your two cents in. Honestly, I'm genuinely sad that despite crushing this challenge, our first as a new and badass tribe, we have to say goodbye to someone. But we do, so we will. The only question is, is it Quin or is it DFaraday.

Both of 'em have merit, and both have drawbacks. I think the best way to begin is to have our Atamai folks recount the merits of both our friends.

I make jokes. I'm already the most important person on this tribe.

noice

I don't need any fish. I can give them all away to anyone who needs them. You need only ask, preferably accompanied with a crisp 5'er.

Also, yay chicken.

LoRab wrote:
Quin wrote:
LoRab wrote:I'll be at 10, 10, and 9.

I'm happy to get water so everyone can stay hydrated. With 2 of us getting water, we all seemed to be staying hydrated when we were healthy. I can get water tonight and then rest the day after, assuming I get cured.

I can't remember if Elo and INH are sick or not. Just over half of our tribe had food poisoning yesterday. I'm guessing your tribe was the same. We think we gave it to the opposite tribe from the previous night poll.
You're definitely resting if we win this reward
Oh, fine. I mean, the only thing that loses energy is challenges that involve energy. But I guess I'll nap.

The immunity challenges could really make a dent in your energy if you aren't careful, so you can do whatever you think is right but it might be safer to make sure your energy levels are always in the double digits.

LoRab wrote:I'll be at 10, 10, and 9.

I'm happy to get water so everyone can stay hydrated. With 2 of us getting water, we all seemed to be staying hydrated when we were healthy. I can get water tonight and then rest the day after, assuming I get cured.

I can't remember if Elo and INH are sick or not. Just over half of our tribe had food poisoning yesterday. I'm guessing your tribe was the same. We think we gave it to the opposite tribe from the previous night poll.

You're definitely resting if we win this reward

lol yall better stay away from me

I remember SVS was sick yesterday. Are you better now, SVS?

DharmaHelper wrote:
Quin wrote:I'd be full, and I have 14 energy so that would be a good choice for me.
If we won I'd be at 14 Energy 9 Thirst 10 Hunger

Are you sick, or is it just LoRab?

I'd be full, and I have 14 energy so that would be a good choice for me.

If we win this challenge, what will everyones health and thirst levels be like? We might not actually need to fish/water at all, so we can rest if we need to.

I've got mine sent in, but ask me tomorrow

LoRab wrote:Yay Doctor!!

And
Quin wrote:Food poisoning is an Atamai specialty.
I'm not certain mine was food poisoning.

Could there be...mafia on this tribe?

Food poisoning is an Atamai specialty.

DharmaHelper wrote:Also, putting the shovel under the flag might trip them up to, if they come in on the bottom half of the flag or the top half of the shovel, it could look like an oar or they could miss trying to make the shovel into a 2x2

I was worried about this one just because if they do take the 1x3 route, they'll know for the sure that you've put two side by side.

LoRab wrote:Now that we're done with the challenge, I just wanted to mention that I got poisoned last night. If anyone knows anything about a cure.

If we win this challenge you should be cured because the reward says so. Otherwise, DF.

S~V~S wrote:Poor Scotty, this must be a ton of work.

I'd never host a game like this, purely because I wouldn't be able to.

I hope the other team isn't finished yet. That'd be a good sign.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Quin wrote:Make that 30 with the winning guess. Still.
Four of the squares I marked "Miss" were just squares I knew contained nothing due to an advantage.

Oh, okay.

Make that 30 with the winning guess. Still.

We got'er done in 29 guesses. It took less than half the board. I'm optimistic.

Maybe I'll stay in Q4 as well. My intuition hasn't been great so far for this one.

S~V~S wrote:I am gonna stay in 4 cause that's the only one where something has not been uncovered.

I think it's possible, but we don't want to get tricked into thinking that there's at least one in each quadrant.

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