surprised that nobody used this image in this game at all
so I shall do it
Bart is probably the
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Return to “The Simpsons [GAME OVER]”
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:54 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:45 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
I have even more evidence outside of their posting style that it's them, it's a small detail in one of their posts that just locks the read.
you can rest assured it's her
you can rest assured it's her
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:44 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
i'm telling you it's Michelle 99% of the time
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:42 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
Hugh, Bart is almost certainly Michelle.
It's like a 99% lock, it's most certainly not dunya.
It's like a 99% lock, it's most certainly not dunya.
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:41 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
Additional points of concern :
I. Alison's conviction of CBG being scum based off those reasons seems contrived, implicitly the reactions like "they are in anti-spew ; I was so sure they'd flip scum too" (lolwat)
Why is it a concern? Emotion that's being put in pushes should signal to people that "they buy the read" but if you are to take a minute and analyse Alison's scum reads, they're all pretty easy to manufacture.
II. A few thoughts that I don't think they'd have as a villager (harder to place much confidence in this)
III. Not obvious villa through sheer pushes and it's D3.
I. Alison's conviction of CBG being scum based off those reasons seems contrived, implicitly the reactions like "they are in anti-spew ; I was so sure they'd flip scum too" (lolwat)
Why is it a concern? Emotion that's being put in pushes should signal to people that "they buy the read" but if you are to take a minute and analyse Alison's scum reads, they're all pretty easy to manufacture.
II. A few thoughts that I don't think they'd have as a villager (harder to place much confidence in this)
III. Not obvious villa through sheer pushes and it's D3.
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:38 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
Alison's pushes this game
1) someone pushed obvtown Ned Flanders
2) CBG moved votes at EoD between his scum reads
3) Lisa's posts on D3 were lame (after saying Lisa was her strongest town read on D1 and she didn't seem to falter much on that read either)
number 3 looks a tad more concerning because, fmpov, an Alison / Otto / +1 team is kinda running out of options that wouldn't receive some type of backlash. Pretty much anybody that's not Lisa (ergo, actually in thread) would probably push back on the read and thus making them look slimier and a little more dirty than they seem to look rn.
1) someone pushed obvtown Ned Flanders
2) CBG moved votes at EoD between his scum reads
3) Lisa's posts on D3 were lame (after saying Lisa was her strongest town read on D1 and she didn't seem to falter much on that read either)
number 3 looks a tad more concerning because, fmpov, an Alison / Otto / +1 team is kinda running out of options that wouldn't receive some type of backlash. Pretty much anybody that's not Lisa (ergo, actually in thread) would probably push back on the read and thus making them look slimier and a little more dirty than they seem to look rn.
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:34 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
if it's villager, Alison / Otto / +1Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:33 pmWhat world would you look at depending on his flip?Marge Simpson wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:10 pm idk why we don't just get rid of Burns here
been pushing villagers all game, doesn't reconsider at all
progression on Gramps slimy af
if it's wolf, Gramps / Burns / +1
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:32 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
probably has 0/3Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:22 pm I doubt the game is as easy as all three of them being scum but I would be pretty unsurprised if there was 2 scum in that pool
where you at rn
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:31 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
don't like the last line tacked on thereAllison Taylor wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:22 pm CBG's responses have really irked me. I think he's going for a TWTBAW strategy. He's trying to give off an aura of not giving a fuck but his overly flippant attitude feels OTT. I think he's just scum here, maybe even trying his best to anti-spew so as to deny us associative reads.
the strength of the evidence you've provided shouldn't match the level of confidence that you have in this read
Alison's CBG read was that he was vote switching at EoD between his scum reads, wat
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:27 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 2]
I don't really get the thought progression in this post at all.Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:13 pmThis is pretty ballsy to come from scum and IME wolf teams are usually scared to tie themselves to each other like that. Plus I have independent townreads on these two so I'm willing to just trust that Otto and Krusty are V/V.
You think Otto is town because he made a read that him as a wolf wouldn't make on Krusty as his wolf partner???
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:19 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 2]
watAllison Taylor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:20 am I'm honestly not sure what to do with this gamestate.
There's a lot of people who are gigantic question marks to me, mostly because they've dropped off severely in posting, and I only have one firm scumread.
you've been repping a town core of 6 people and now it disbanded for no reason?
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:12 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
[VOTE:
Alison ] aubergine
clicking buttons
clicking buttons
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:10 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
idk why we don't just get rid of Burns here
been pushing villagers all game, doesn't reconsider at all
progression on Gramps slimy af
been pushing villagers all game, doesn't reconsider at all
progression on Gramps slimy af
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:07 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
voted for burns but I may be up for a spicy yeet on Alison
who knows
who knows
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:05 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
idk, I still find the reaction very good for them
don't think I'd be down for wagonning bart toDay
don't think I'd be down for wagonning bart toDay
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:02 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
their reaction to me was pretty good, but I guess I can double check
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:59 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:58 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
i'm just trolling Gramps because he's pushed slankers for not doing anything twice this game
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:57 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
atp I'd probably be down to yeet alison
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:56 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
lololololol
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:54 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
ok then, get omgused on, what can I say
you've been slanking today so from your PoV it's only fair game to yeet you here because it's wolfy to do nothing
you've been slanking today so from your PoV it's only fair game to yeet you here because it's wolfy to do nothing
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:49 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
can we just vote burns today please
get some real info imo
get some real info imo
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:41 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
like even on D1 you were acting like I kicked you in the nether region for even daring to town read homer
why is that part so important to you? are you saying it's wolfy that I'm doing it?
you've been struggling for 3 days to have any remote form of progression on me and it keeps getting stopped at exactly "he was right on Homer and I'm so hurt because of it"
move on
why is that part so important to you? are you saying it's wolfy that I'm doing it?
you've been struggling for 3 days to have any remote form of progression on me and it keeps getting stopped at exactly "he was right on Homer and I'm so hurt because of it"
move on
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:39 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
[VOTE:
Gramps ] aubergine
give a read on me and stop being pissed for no reason otherwise I'm gonna keep thinking you're faking it
give a read on me and stop being pissed for no reason otherwise I'm gonna keep thinking you're faking it
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:38 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
it's very hard for me to not think you're straight up feigning being angry or whatever
do you scum read me or wat, otherwise why tf do you keep coming up with this shit
so annoying damn
this is D1 stuff, why are you still on it
do you scum read me or wat, otherwise why tf do you keep coming up with this shit
so annoying damn
this is D1 stuff, why are you still on it
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:35 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
[VOTE:
Burns ] aubergine
maybe this finally picks up so we can move on with the game and get some real info
maybe this finally picks up so we can move on with the game and get some real info
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:34 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
so what I gather is that Krusty / Burns / Gramps are either all CFC'ers or from other sites
i prob don't wanna vote krusty today tho, his D3 is kinda solid just aggression-wise
i prob don't wanna vote krusty today tho, his D3 is kinda solid just aggression-wise
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:13 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
I have yet to see a wolf game from Alison
I basically don't remember any of their posts this game so I'll take a look tomorrow, assuming I get to live which is pretty likely
I basically don't remember any of their posts this game so I'll take a look tomorrow, assuming I get to live which is pretty likely
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:07 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
I have her in PoE but would always love seeing her go after other people.
if you have a case or something maybe I can sheep
if you have a case or something maybe I can sheep
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:02 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
i'm not really thinking it's anything explicitly civvie-motivated rather than just...not wolf motivated.
i struggle to find a wolf faking that type of read and for what reasons. not sure if as a wolf you'd go to that length?
i mean, who would have ever thought about that type of stuff?
maybe you're right but ime I'd say that stuff is kinda hard to fake as a wolf unless it's w/w
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:57 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
"out of all of the posts they had in their ISO, Lisa is gonna point out that thing?"
type of mindset I have behind the read
type of mindset I have behind the read
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:56 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
i guess i looked at it being villagery because the progression was
"gosh, Grumple fell off the stairs from d1 to now" and then they make that post?
idk, seeing it as a bit silly for a wolf to make on a villager
don't see the point, felt like I can see the gears turning, like they noticed someone wasn't active, they look for their posts and spot something
and I don't think wolves come up with that after saying it lol
idk, resonates with me
"gosh, Grumple fell off the stairs from d1 to now" and then they make that post?
idk, seeing it as a bit silly for a wolf to make on a villager
don't see the point, felt like I can see the gears turning, like they noticed someone wasn't active, they look for their posts and spot something
and I don't think wolves come up with that after saying it lol
idk, resonates with me
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:51 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
[VOTE:
Krusty the Clown ] aubergine
could rock with this
could rock with this
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:51 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
on a villager, obv
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:50 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:42 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
You could have very well not known the lingo (which I am inclined to believe you don't, why would you lie about that part, ldo)
but if Lisa were scum and she KNEW you were also scum, then they'd be able to take information in the thread and make it look like it's scummy for you because they know you are a wolf, ergo twist anything and say you are a wolf for it because it's easy to do so with the knowledge that you're a wolf
hope that makes some sense
but if Lisa were scum and she KNEW you were also scum, then they'd be able to take information in the thread and make it look like it's scummy for you because they know you are a wolf, ergo twist anything and say you are a wolf for it because it's easy to do so with the knowledge that you're a wolf
hope that makes some sense
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:40 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
uh, no
hold on, you misinterpreted something
you don't need to be faking the actual thing, but from a TMI standpoint (if you and Lisa were scum mates), then they would've drawn that conclusion based on info in the thread because they have the notion that you are a wolf.
hope that makes a bit of sense
for that read, this part right here :
hold on, you misinterpreted something
you don't need to be faking the actual thing, but from a TMI standpoint (if you and Lisa were scum mates), then they would've drawn that conclusion based on info in the thread because they have the notion that you are a wolf.
hope that makes a bit of sense
for that read, this part right here :
isn't relevant for my readThe Grumple wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:36 pm your theory is that i'm just pretending to not know recently invented mafia slang words for some reason
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:38 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
exactly that
not to be misinterpreted for "I think you are w/w based on this" because I don't, I think Lisa had a villager-y reaction to that and it looks like a non-TMI read
but if they were to flip scum and I was wrong, then that thought is a whole lot easier to manufacture if it's directed towards a scum mate
so I guess kind of what you said, yeah, I don't see why you think it's confusing.
not to be misinterpreted for "I think you are w/w based on this" because I don't, I think Lisa had a villager-y reaction to that and it looks like a non-TMI read
but if they were to flip scum and I was wrong, then that thought is a whole lot easier to manufacture if it's directed towards a scum mate
so I guess kind of what you said, yeah, I don't see why you think it's confusing.
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:23 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
TMIMr. Burns wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:18 pmYeah, that was a pretty astonishing read on your part. What was it based on again?Marge Simpson wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:37 pm unless you guys think Lisa is exactly with Grumple then yeeting her here seems suboptimal
but what do I know
after all I called homer villager and all
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:37 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
unless you guys think Lisa is exactly with Grumple then yeeting her here seems suboptimal
but what do I know
after all I called homer villager and all
but what do I know
after all I called homer villager and all
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:35 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 2]
I assume there will be little to no wagon fluctuation at EoD and the yeet will probably be exactly Lisa
if she does flip wolf and I am wrong about her being a villager, I think she's the most likely to be with Grumple off the post that I had called her townie for
i'd call that post extremely villagery but if Lisa's a wolf, then i'm pretty confident that she can only make that read on Grumple if she has TMI on him being a wolf
talking about this one
if she does flip wolf and I am wrong about her being a villager, I think she's the most likely to be with Grumple off the post that I had called her townie for
i'd call that post extremely villagery but if Lisa's a wolf, then i'm pretty confident that she can only make that read on Grumple if she has TMI on him being a wolf
talking about this one
Lisa Simpson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:52 pmHe seems to know what a player salad is but doesn't know what TR means. Just seems odd to me. I don't know why one would fake it though but just putting this down since i noticed alot of his posts D2 are just asking about terminology.Lisa Simpson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:47 pm Is it me or does it feel like Grumple fell down a flight of stairs in the middle of D1
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:32 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
i'm not doing that thoughMr. Burns wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:00 pmI'm trying to kill Lisa right now and have no interest in coming at you with anything...but you easily could be a wolf and if town the "you agree with me you are town, you disagree so wolf" play is just lazy.Marge Simpson wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:44 pm come at me with something harder imo
"she can do this as a wolf easily" isn't great bait for villagers to follow, sir
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:44 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
come at me with something harder imo
"she can do this as a wolf easily" isn't great bait for villagers to follow, sir
"she can do this as a wolf easily" isn't great bait for villagers to follow, sir
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:29 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
will make my vote useful
[VOTE: Gramps ] aubergine
[VOTE: Gramps ] aubergine
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:26 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
yup
my game view is skewed anyway and if it wasn't then whatever, we aren't yeeting any of the people I wanna yeet anyway
glgl
my game view is skewed anyway and if it wasn't then whatever, we aren't yeeting any of the people I wanna yeet anyway
glgl
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:13 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
sure whatever, I can compromise
feel like Bart reacted villagery here and it may be worth sheeping them
my reads are gonna be bad probably because of the game environment, the way the game is and the combo of players and their views makes it hard for me to get accurate reads
[VOTE: Hugh Jass ] aubergine
feel like Bart reacted villagery here and it may be worth sheeping them
my reads are gonna be bad probably because of the game environment, the way the game is and the combo of players and their views makes it hard for me to get accurate reads
[VOTE: Hugh Jass ] aubergine
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:05 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 2]
Spoiler: show
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:56 am
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
i don't need to know the alignment of two people in order to draw out the conclusion that Hugh reacted like a villager
wat
wat
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:50 am
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
not a huge fan of GTH stuff
also, I don't know what this is supposed to meanBart Simpson wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:45 am Do you have a certainty on any player's AI to judge a reaction as genuine?
- Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:25 am
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: The Simpsons [GAME OVER]
- Replies: 2378
- Views: 28263
Re: The Simpsons [DAY 3]
I think your hunting has been very limited and the best vote you could come up with in 3 days was that Hugh was looking too townie to be a scum here.Bart Simpson wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:24 amI think this is for me specifically, and i so love meta reads, maybe you could define underwhelming, and what very may add at the read?Marge Simpson wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:43 am ISO is actually pretty underwhelming upon reading it after D1.
very underwhelming for them specifically
In simple words i think you flipped the read after i pulled some strings and this is looking very bad after you backtracked from Burns' scum read like that.
you aren't so focused on town reads either.
also, for the red line, I don't know why that'd "look bad" unless you think we're somehow w/w together?
I didn't really back track, like I'm still down to vote burns but I acknowledge that I don't have a good time reading them because most of their thoughts I dismiss as being fake but a lot of it is because we just see the game very differently, so I can't really get a confident read there.