The Syndicate

Arete seems pretty frantic to me right now. But I don’t know what that means.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

??

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:02 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:01 pm Oh, is EoD tomorrow?

no it's in 2 hours - i think theyre implying that they'll be able to make a wallpost after death

Right, the price thing

Oh, is EoD tomorrow?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:57 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:55 pm I kind of have the fear

me too but i think/hope if it's not arete it's almost always spf

I’ll fucking hate it if I get dragged to F3. I don’t know who if not Arete.

That’s not constructive. But yes, Arete, I’m interested in any new thoughts or insights that have developed if any.

I kind of have the fear

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:08 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:53 am I mean, actually, that kind of bothers me. SPF, I'm genuinely a bit ticked off about you thinking that you would bus in a manner of "Haha Dya wolf brrrrr" and expect to get town cred from that. We are not playing level 0 mafia here. TMI bussing is not exactly hard to spot. I don't remember how you bussed in Grasslands, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have that flavor at all.

you seem to be misunderstanding the point. i'm using the "haha Dya wolf brrrrr" argument as hyperbole to bring attention to the fact that my busses as a wolf are typically orchestrated to give me as much towncred as possible. when i bus my partners, i go to great lengths to:

A. make the bus extremely noticeable

B. be extremely loud about the bus

C. hammer home the narrative that me/the person im bussing cant be the same alignment

to give an example of this, i faked an entire angry emotional argument with long con in grasslands (i encouraged him to be mean as possible) just so that the two of wouldn't look teamed with each other. to give another example, i bussed c4 in CoV by voting for him, casing him, and making a big scene about how no one was sheeping my vote about him and how that definitely meant that he was a wolf. the overall trajectory was loud and performative

by contrast, my posts about dyachei in this game are understated by comparison (and not outside of the range of any competent wolf), and that's kinda the point. my trajectory toward dyachei was constant suspicion, constant interrogation, and constant pushing, but it was conducted in a way that was so "quiet" that two players in this game outright didn't remember me pushing dya much at all. there's no flashiness or drama to my push on dyachei, and that alone means that i'm a villager. THAT's the point

Alright. I mean, that (this) would be a more successful bus imo. =p
But point taken. You didn't bus Dya.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:46 am if not arete who are your next two in line?

I don't really want a line. Nut and Zack most town (NutZack hahahahahahah). I don't want to line up though, cause it's going to be just town if Aroot is mafia and at least one town if they aren't. And it's also something I'll have to just deal with then, if Aroot is town. Or I can deal with it now, if Aroot is town and able to show it.

Anyway, it doesn't really make sense to me to make a line.

I read this day yay. I think I'm sticking with Aroot.
Vulgard/Aroot deciding to hard town read each other throughout to a win. Trying to build it up and make it "natural". It's bizarre tbh, but it's hard to imagine something else.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:44 am

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:43 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:41 am i might actually kill arete and c4 before i would kill dizzy

i dunno

really?

probably not lol

Scum the lot of you. Can you just town read me. It would get simpler for you if you're town, and me too. Win win. Lol I'm such a diva LOVE ME.

And also, my takes/perspectives are not "interesting" or "weird" or "cute". Cause I've been the only one to tie Vulgard and Dya together, and I also read the Syn slot correctly (which I'm honestly so confused as to how people didn't). So maybe I'm just not that bad at mafia (trying to boost myself here as well.) The Dizzy prophecy is a real thing! Ok, there's a lot of messiness that comes with my play, and doubt and unsureness, but there is always the gems. I do it to myself, but I'm often not taken very seriously in games, I feel.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:37 am let's fast forward to the part where dizzy comes in and complains about me not having him higher in my POE and me townreading him for it

Yes, it's a bit weird, and I'm going to be a total hypocrite about it too, except not really, cause I'm right, IMO lol.

Cause you ask for the one big reason to town read me. How about me pointing out fucking specific word usage + a mindset slip from Vulgard, that nobody else picked up on. I noticed these two things when reading whatever part of the thread I got to read back then, and I mentioned it in an insecure way, ok. But for real, there's literally no positive sides to me tying a consensus town read to a consensus scum read when there's absolutely no reason to do that and nobody else has that thought. It's also strictly outside my scum meta, as I'm 100 % carry the team where I can and bus my team if I must kind of a player, because that is the true way imo. So I actually think that counts as a pretty big thing. I realise the observation was not given as me screaming it out, but it was a genuine observation that struck me, which I did call out. And I'm super happy and proud of Sunbae for listening and taking it into consideration, cause that is true good town play on his part.

Ironically, not having one big reason to town read you is the reason I'm unsure of you. I know you pointed to your interaction with Dya, but I genuinely don't understand what is clearing about it. I lean towards you believing it is, but I have questions why. I also am frowning upon you suggestion your bus would look like "haha the wheels on the bus go brrrr" cause you're just not that bad of a player. Devils advocate here is that nothing you've done points towards scum necessarily. And you not having one big thing or one more bizarre moment, like Arete and Visor have for example, could also be because of your play style, as you tend to be more flowy and less hard edged in your approach anyway.

So yeah.
You should town read me, but I don't have to town read you basically. =p
But like, I'm working on it. And you're probably town tbh tbh.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:08 am snap out of what exactly? im explaining myself to spf who is specifically talking about my confidence levels?

You've been meh-ing. I want you and everyone to be confident so I can sheep or have an instinctive reaction to it being wrong.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:01 am literally the only read hes pushed since dya is dizzy i think (c4)

He's not even pushing that read, or like, I don't understand it. He was super passionate (YES I AM USING THAT WORD CAUSE THAT IS HOW I READ IT) about me absolutely needing to be in the general PoE on D4 or whenever. I don't think I've ever heard a reason why, other than "I don't find a reason to clear you", even though I've been throwing those reasons at him like candy on halloween, which he hasn't responded to, and also like dude you've never played with me, why are you satisfied with this solve. It bothers me, and I don't think it's omgus. He's not really solving me, he isn't scum reading me, it seems like, but he is voting me.

I'm super interested in squaring this with him, and I promise not to yell, cause I'm not over worked irl and overwhelmed by this game as much.

So hi c4, what's up. Why am I the big bad to you for real for real?

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:43 am look i was super confident dya/amy were wolves, it seemed natural to me, i was wrong on amy, and got a lot of pushback from people on dya

having then shit the bed on d4, and also been wrong on amy, why wouldnt you expect my confidence level to be low?

But can you snap out of it, cause it's a bit annoying and weh if you're town, which you probably are. Be the hero we need you to be thanks dad

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:35 am tfw i cant absolve myself of responsibility

When I'm town at PerC, I get N1-ed like 50 % of the time.
When I'm town on Syndicate, I end game like ALL THE TIME.
Thanks, I hate it.

bronana wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:33 amand are both in the 18-65 age demographic

Omg towny mindmeld

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:21 am sk hunting is hard man

It's not sk hunting with three flipped wolves and a whole game behind us though. Snap snap slap slap. Y U so bleh right now

bronana wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:14 ami mean i pushed chloe/syn since d2 or whatever all game and then everyone agreed it was syn yesterday and he was green? lol

Everyone did not agree.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:02 am look i want to trust past me and just say that you're a villager.

but the paranoid side of me is v scared of f3

i guess we will see with arete and c4.

Can we not

I mean, actually, that kind of bothers me. SPF, I'm genuinely a bit ticked off about you thinking that you would bus in a manner of "Haha Dya wolf brrrrr" and expect to get town cred from that. We are not playing level 0 mafia here. TMI bussing is not exactly hard to spot. I don't remember how you bussed in Grasslands, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have that flavor at all.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:59 am

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:55 am honestly if i hadnt heard of how much of a busser you were, (from yourself no less :P) i think i would be less paranoid lmao

i remember liking your thoughts on dya at the time fwiw spf (i did villa read you then after all)

(wish retrospective vote counts were a thing)

it just feels so ...obvious FMPOV that i wouldnt bus dyachei in the way that i did. it's not like i just said "dyachei is wolfy" and left it at that - i held sunbae to the flames and thoroughly roasted his reasoning when he tried to assert himself and clear dyachei. i constantly interrogated dyachei and tried to get to the bottom of their mindset and their logic when it would have been far easier for me as a wolf to just say: "haha dyachei is wolfy, let's kill them!", and when i would have gotten FAR more towncred by doing that and putting in less effort to figure out dyachei overall. it should be obvious that i was genuinely considering dyachei's alignment throughout the entire game, which is a mindset that i am unable to replicate even when i am hardbussing my partners as a wolf

if i'm as good at bussing as i've made it sound, then i would also bus dyachei in a way that would give me an ample amount of towncred. i have just generally been frustrated with the feeling that there is a general lack of thought/consideration about how my alignment relates to dyachei's alignment, but i understand that i'm speaking from the POV of town entitlement lol

Going "haha Dya wolf" is not good bussing though.
And I'm not assuming that you're a bad player, because I know you're a good player.
What you did would be good bussing.
Doesn't mean it is.
The feeling of your defence reads town to me, the way you approach it. The content of your defence, I have a harder time seeing. But that's fine.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:56 amlook im sorry but i have to tinfoil both you and zack so I die

Medium key working for people to clear me so I can die if game doesn't end soon, but I'm worried that won't happen, so please can we just get this.

I'm sorry, but I genuinely don't understand how this is supposed to be clearing. Which doesn't make you a wolf, but I really don't get what is clearing about it. I think I could talk about a partner in this way, I don't see why you couldn't. Can you speak to it?

And I know I'm spending time explaining why I'm town, but I do feel that's one of the things I can do the best right now, or at least it's the easiest. I'm of course open to hearing others on why they are town. I'm saying that, but I glossed over SPF on their Dya interaction lol. But I'll go back and read it.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:40 amdyslexicon has generally felt villagery to me and their early interactions with dyachei are just inquisitive and punchy enough for me to feel like it's less likely to be W/W interaction. the reason i can't clear dizzy like i can clear nutella/bronana is because i'm lacking in any real, concrete reasons to towncore him. his posts have been villagery and he's generally had good observations, (and i also doubt he attacks zack's point about KZA as much as he did on d1 in a world where he/KZA are W/W), but i guess i'm just lacking in the special spice that makes me feel confident in him being town. i still think that he's more likely town

I know you're landing on me being more likely town. Still, have you given this post any consideration?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:49 amI'll list out what I feel are things that I wouldn't or even can't do as scum:
- I actually thought Gavial was highly likely mafia when I entered the game, but I felt it was a mistake to wagon him when he had like four or five posts. I have just played a game where me+Gavial was the scum team, and he was extremely obvious in how he spewed me as a teammate. So I felt that if he was mafia, it was unironically worse for town to just shut him down immediately. I wouldn't have this approach as mafia. I also think this thought process can be tracked in my post.
- Pointing out a very specific word usage read, connecting Dya and Vulgard is, as Nut points out, strictly outside my wolf range and strictly within my town range. I'm actually pretty good at reading interactions specifically, and I've had many similar finds in other games. (Also, re Syn slot who I thought was obviously not teamed with Vulgard from interaction, and it's even more apparent in Dya's ISO. But that is moot.) In any case, I would never bring up something that nobody else would ever notice about that pairing just to do it. Vulgard was a consensus town read at the time. I also town read Vulgard, mostly directly from that consensus and from Arete. Dya, however, was likely to go down either that day or soon. There would be absolutely no need for me to tie Vulgard to a wolf soon going down if they were on my team. It's not a matter of if I bus or not. I bus if it's necessary. But I would never needlessly put shit like that on my teammates that would just hurt us in the long run when nobody else has noticed the same thing.
- The day the jailkeep happened, I thought I had really solved that it must be Marl or Vulgard as one of the scum. I solved that forgetting that scum would not be free to kill Amy as they pleased, which I didn't think about. That in itself you can call a derp moment, but I'm fine if people want to wave that off as NAI. What is AI imo is that I had a real reaction to thinking this and then realising my mistake. I also had a real reaction to Marl going off at me and immediately realised that Marl was not it. The thing is that I wouldn't have a reaction to this in real time if I was scum and already knew. And then there's the discrepancy between my inner experience and what I express. But I think my reaction can be traced with how I post.
- I have never ever phoned in or not read part of a thread in a scum game. I'm super neurotic as scum and plan everything and need to know everything my teammates are doing etc. If people are ticked off by me being a bit here and there and everywhere, then that is just more signs I'm town.

So these are some of the strongest town signs imo.

Arete wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:39 amI guess I would probably go for Dizzy over Bronana as my second name just because Dizzy kind of feels like they're trying to discredit townclears e.g. with the c4 thing where they were like 'well there were already two wolves in the list so why *can't* there be a third' which feels like it's not really engaging with the reasons why people thought that that post was clearing

Allow me to correct you. Your clearing of c4 for this reason is whack to me, just like you all suspecting Syn for interactions when all the interactions super obviously pointed towards Vul and Dya TMI-ing them town was whack. I've said it already, that Vul had mentioned he previously acted towards a teammate (Alison) in a specific manner in order for them to succeed. He had already put both Dya and KZA in that post, so I don't think it's at all wild to believe he could put all three there for the wifom. And it's something I myself would definitely do for that reason. However, I've found other more clearing circumstances for c4, which is why I'm not voting there right now.

You saying I didn't engage with the reasons why people think the post is clearing is a lie, in fact. I specifically explained my take on it, and I think other's take on it is bad. I will disagree when I think other's takes have been bad, which they have been on quite a few things imo.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:19 am i have been worried that i have set the bar too low for nutella to jump over (they especially jump from wagon to wagon and idea to idea and i guess i think i should village read that but i cant lie and say i havent been worrying about that clear)

In the beginning of every of the flipped scum's ISO, it looks like they are TMI-ing Nut town.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 amit's not a joke. c4 has never misread me in a game before. if c4 is a villager then he's misreading me for the first time ever. if c4 is a wolf then he's TMI'ing me as town. in either reality, the odds of me being town are more likely than not. i don't understand why an argument like that makes you feel "wrong" - you're gonna have to be less abstract about it

I didn't realise this was your original argument. I thought you meant "If I was a wolf, I would not be interested to clear c4, cause I need wide PoE"

Arete wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:16 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:50 pm I want the game to end today, but I don't know who to vote today. Town, be town.

I want to talk to c4 about his read/thoughts on me.

I want to talk to Arete about how they felt when Vulgard was mafia.

sorry I missed this before

uh

I was sad about it, and frustrated with myself for not catching him, and sad that this meant that we couldn't just automatically be masons in every V/V game in the future? I don't know what else to say that wouldn't just be ATE

I think I was less impacted by his wolf flip than I normally would have been because he had started lowkey lolcatting before EoD and I had semi resigned myself to the possibility of him flipping scum, so I didn't have the 'wait oh no he was a wolf' realization all at once

did you have any specific questions?

No specific questions. I just don't remember seeing many feels from you about it. But I also have not read everything. Just wanted to see if you had anything to say about it. Searching for something to make me feel more sure about things.

Arete wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:05 pmFor the record I feel like 'Arete didn't interact a lot with Dya, which makes them partners,' which I've seen a couple times, is ... silly? like if you think I'm a wolf then clearly I would be capable of interacting with my partners, seeing as how basically all I did the entire game until he died was interact with Vul.

I haven't meant to imply this myself. Dya didn't interact much with me either. I feel like they were more avoidant towards me, and more aggressive in their interaction with you. But yeah, it's not something I can read into really. And ok to the rest of this post.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:48 pmThumbs up
Not specifically about your play atp so I'm not sure how much there is for you to do in terms of clarifying your PoV
If you think I'm making a listake somewhere else that's another question

You obviously have.

Kinda gotten nowhere new

Your constant switching on dya isn't w/w
dya pocketed Zack
dya TMI'd Visor
Vulgard pocketed Arete
spf generally obvious

I'd be doing more due diligence if I weren't busy with you know what
That's probably not true

Not sure how you weigh these.
I don't get how me pointing out something very specific, tying town read Vulgard to a dying wolf Dya is somehow less clearing than the one post (?) you say is Dya TMI-ing Visor, for example. But it's not a competition between most clear towns (well, it kind of is lol), but it's about finding that one wolf, and I'm not it.

Still largely stumped on where else to go is all
If it really just ends with Arete tomorrow then yell at me in post all you want

That's lethargic.
And I don't care about yelling at you.

I'm not great at campaigning for things, but I did call him a wolf, and I did try to get votes off of Alison by pinging people with my reasons. That's usually the extent I can manage.

Did you think Alison was wolf if she wasn't PT btw?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:49 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:49 pm No, I don’t even have time to read this game. Plz no

you know you want to :P

I totally don’t.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:49 pm three strongest townreads ATM are nutella, c4, and bronana

I’m jealous

I won’t fully trust you unless you claim joat!

No, I don’t even have time to read this game. Plz no

bronana wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:40 pm

Marluxion wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:47 pm I'm the jailkeeper and I targeted c4 last night. @c4e5g3d5 I don't think you are ever the night kill target last night, especially not with Amy alive. Not with Chloe Nutella arete and Vulgard alive.

Arete wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:49 pm okay well I guess my reads just suck then

:wowee:

ngl I thought bronana was softing jailkeeper who targeted Sunbae

Arete wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:50 pm[VOTE: c4] aubergine

Arete wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 6:55 pm @Marluxion

am I reading you correctly that you claimed to Vul in your neighborhood

he was already clear but if he can be extra clear that's cool too

Arete wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 7:02 pm Amy pointed this out already but it would be really weird for wolves to decide to just factional kill c4 (which could in theory happen), or any non-Amy target, while not roleblocking Amy

when marl claims he jk'd c4 ---> "well i guess my reads just suck then, vote: c4, wolves would never kill a non-amy target without roleblocking amy"

when sunbae counterclaims and says he jailed vulgard ---> "actually my reads are perfect and sunbae is a wolf, look at all these explanations for why amy wasn't roleblocked, i will make this point very aggressively and ridicule people who disagree"

?????

[VOTE: Arete] aubergine

Yeah. I think it will have to be the Aroot.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:37 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:34 pm I think I want to take c4 out of PoE

i am leaning the same. in a world where im a wolf here, i practically need c4 to go over at some point in order to win the game. so the fact that im arguing for c4 being a villager should indicate to you that im just a villager as well :P

I thought about just that. But then I also thought you are probably smart enough to know this, and maybe that’s why you’re saying nice stuff about people, but then you bring it up yourself! Rawr. Yeah, you’re probably town.

So it should be Aroot. Unless I’m dumb clearing Zack or something.

@bronana When did you conclude you weren’t going to vote me? I thought you were not sure. Just curious

I think I want to take c4 out of PoE

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:02 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:19 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:49 pm-i accidentally included amy on two tiers on one of my readslist on d2. does that mean that i'm partnered with amy? what is my wolf motivation for putting vulgard twice on the same list by accident? that doesn't even make sense lol

I mean, this is a super nit pick detail thing, but do you know why it happened at all?
I've seen people accidentally put a name twice in different tiers before. It surprises me a bit from you, because I see you as a pretty systematic player.

in both cases (amy and vulgard), it was because i was actively debating between putting them in two tiers, made up my mind, and then forgot to remove them from the other tier. just stuff that i do when im sleep deprived lol

Something something hindsight coffee tell something

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:01 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 1:30 pm c4 seems much different that CoV. They aren't fucking around as much as they did there

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 2:30 pm c4 had a lot of agenda'd posting and joking around in CoV, sunbae. Like a lot of it. It was easy to call him out as a wolf after the first wolf flipped.

dyachei wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 8:24 pm i actually kind of like her posts. why is she a wolf?

it's worth mentioning that dyachei's treatment of c4 in the first couple pages of the game was fairly friendly - dya immediately brought up that c4 was playing differently from CoV (where he was a wolf) and they prodded at c4's early read on me

im leaning on these posts spewing c4 as town - i think it would be easy for dya as a wolf to get their head into the game by calling out the obvious meta differences between c4's play in this game and his play in CoV, and the way that he prompted c4 to explain his read on me felt like they were TMI'ing both of us as villagers

I could see this.

I want the game to end today, but I don't know who to vote today. Town, be town.

I want to talk to c4 about his read/thoughts on me.

I want to talk to Arete about how they felt when Vulgard was mafia.

Can I have Arete/c4/SPF as my chosen "PoE", though I kind of hate it since two are definitely town, but can I have that?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:48 pm Dya/c4 w/w boom

I tried to check the things I wanted to check about Aroot and c4, but it was too hard for my brain and eyes. So

@Arete Did you ever react to the way Dya was reading you? How would you describe your interaction in general?

@c4e5g3d5 Did you work hard to get Dya chopped on D2?

dyachei wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:51 pm Villa to wolf list
Amy
Tangy/chloe
Vulgard
visor
Sunbae
nutella
bronana
spf
marl
Dizzy
Arete
C4
Alison

So to be real real, it's probably one of c4 and Arete. This was D2, and Dya was quite heavily suspected. I don't expect them to put both mates more towards townland here, and rather towards distance land. Not that it's conclusive, but it would be very typical.

Now to see what Arete (and c4) had to say about this.

dyachei wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 7:45 pm arete has the want I think

But that was not what I was looking for.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:36 am i think you have an interesting perspective on the game dys, so id really appreciate your overview when you get to it

Well, it doesn't feel easy. And I'm a player who tends towards wanting to town read people. I'm pretty over my Nut suspicion that I actually did have (Dya was so mad at Nut and went against consensus town read on Nut, which I felt was weird in a bad way). But after reading more and just seeing how Nut posts today, Nut is just town. All flipped scum seems to TMI Nut town in the beginning of their ISO.

I think Zack is town. I had a feeling Zack was not teamed with Dya even before Dya flipped. As I've mentioned before, I think scum was kind of happy to let me be suspicious of Zack in the beginning, and neither Dya or Vulgard said much about it, and I think they would if Zack was teamed, cause he did get some attention then. Also, the post I just pointed out, where Dya follows a defence on them with "Exactly" reads very much like scum piggy backing town.

There's things I like and some things I remember not liking from SPF. I didn't like her posts at the start of D3. I distinctly remember all of her posts reading to me like she just softly town claimed, and that was kind of it. All of her posts were basically "Well I don't know since I'm town" (this is from memory and how I took them). And to be fair, town can also post like this. It's also just the fear. But then, her posting today has been good imo. I did share her thought about Dya/Alison being a possibility earlier in the game, she now says she had the same catch about Zack that I had (which I believe, cause it's just very abnormal for scum to lie like that). I don't know. I could definitely see her posts and perspective coming from her as town here.

Nut has said nice stuff about you and how you went after Dya. So I'll check that myself. I haven't read that yet. When I read (parts of) Vulgard's ISO, I couldn't clear you off of it. Same for Dya really. So the jury is out, but at the same time, I feel I've had ok reasons to town read you throughout the game, particularly, I've felt like you've actually have been interested to solve me and don't know my alignment. I also am quite ready to buy your explanation about the freakout being unnecessary if scum.

c4 is definitely solving the least, yes. He did say he was busy with we-know-what. I don't understand why he votes me or think it's me. It started off with "Why is Dizzy not in the PoE", which have been answered. And today I'm apparently the one. So I would like to know more about that. I think the bigger reason to town read him is actually how he thought Alison was going to claim PT and how he went about that, and this may sound dumb, but I'm not sure why I think that's towny lol. It just seemed a bit out there and weird. But yeah, I'll check again how much c4 tried to get Dya chopped on D2. I remember him being the sole vote on Dya at one point.

Arete, I haven't paid to much attention to before now. I find their posts a bit difficult to digest tbh. I tried reading their post about the Syn slot last day, and I just didn't follow. I've asked a couple of times about their relation to Vulgard, but I don't think I've gotten an answer. There's obviously a relationship there. I wonder if it's like me/Hally or something. The overt defence is absurd, and maybe absurd enough to be two wolves deciding to hard town read each other throughout the game. But I think Arete did it quicker and harder than Vulgard did. I want to check their reaction to Dya having them towards the bottom of their read list when they hadn't interacted much before that.

So... this is not very conclusive. And it's also kind of dumb, and imo not even all that good for cohesion/working together, to list people in most to least town, when in fact there's just one mafia, buuut, I think the way I listed in here is how I might list it in my head right now. Not quite sure between Aroot/c4. You and SPF higher and interchangeable, probably town. Nut and Zack should just be town.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:33 pm

Arete wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:11 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:09 am

Arete wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:38 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:36 am

Arete wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:33 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:38 am c4, dya and KZA are in the "no impressions made" club and I would like them to play the game. I do not townread c4 for a carefully voiced scumread (?) on SPF. That's in any average wolf's wolfrange and I think SPF is too quick to clear them regardless of alignment.

dya and KZA just haven't talked about the game much yet. Dya got offended based on a single accusation if I read that correctly, and KZA 5-posted and dipped.

since I feel like no one actually reads my wallposts I'm just going to highlight this post as super important if Vul flips wolf (which, to be clear, I still don't think he will! just. acknowledging the possibility.)

like I feel like I've seen a lot of ambient 'the team is probably just Vul/c4/Dya' floating around and ... no, that's not a thing.

meow

uh

what does this post mean

I'm katze

katze in what way

oh my god this exchange about the c4 post oh god

That is actually legit oof

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:26 pm

Arete wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:17 pm the wording things Dizzy just pointed out are NAI at worst

like I am not Vulgard and he can correct me if I'm wrong but the thing about Dya repping a scumread is just ... him not endorsing the position that Dya believes it, rather than him endorsing the position that Dya doesn't believe it

and the defensive attitude post is like 'Dya has a defensive attitude [which would normally be wolfy] but they've done it before as town, so it could be NAI,' it has an implicitly encoded assumption that a defensive attitude is wolfy rather than an implicit assumption that Dya is a wolf

heh, this is not good

@Dyslexicon

Honestly, it just confuses me. Cause if Aroot is wolf, then why do they absolutely need to speak for Vulgard and not just let him speak to it himself? If Aroot is wolf, it's like they purposefully decided to mutually town read each other. But it's WEIRD.

"Let me get into this discussion about the link between my two live scummates and defend this a bit" is actually not something I'd expect from any mafia there. Unless Aroot is the ride or die kind of teammate.

So this actually just makes me doubt again.