The Syndicate

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:53 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:41 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:36 pm If the "if one partner dies they both die at endgame" mechanic was revealed to the wolves, I really think the town should have had this information too. Just saying.

Also, what was Bereft's role?
it was not explicitly revealed to us. only that we could achieve a win if we voted out a living town/town pair. I was and still am not entirely sure what would have happened if a town/wolf was voted out.

We were uh. flying pretty blind and worked very hard to compile information and find Wilgy as the exact target we could win on.
thanks for your help @leetic

Yeah, a reason why I'm not too happy with the balance decision.

In particular, I thought I was being helpful trying to figure out the pairings but that could've ended up costing the game. I feel like unanticipatable elements like that aren't fun. Still, I think the balance was fair otherwise.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:38 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:36 pm If the "if one partner dies they both die at endgame" mechanic was revealed to the wolves, I really think the town should have had this information too. Just saying.

Also, what was Bereft's role?
Understandable, and I did consider that. I ended up determining it would be broken to reveal that publicly, since it'd end up implicitly outing players' alignments given the game not ending on a flip.

Bereft was vanilla town killed by a janitor.

If it was open knowledge, it probably would have resulted in one of Abby/Ranmilia/Alexy going down due to being the safest options, so I think wolves could have still played around it. But town couldn't have reasonably anticipated that being the reason why the game would end, and telling wolves how to end the game without telling town how to prevent it gave wolves a pretty huge setup advantage in the last phase.

I'm not an easy player to pocket. That said, I often find it difficult to fight against thread momentum. I was considering Ranmilia for the entire phase, the NK results and pairing analyses heavily pointed in that direction, but never had the opportunity/confidence to really push it

Like I waste half of the phase trying to figure out what role/mechanic was threatening to end the game

If the "if one partner dies they both die at endgame" mechanic was revealed to the wolves, I really think the town should have had this information too. Just saying.

Also, what was Bereft's role?

Good job to @Gira for getting the correct solve

I fucking sucked this game. Should have gone with my analysis that Ran was most likely based on pairings, but whatever. GG I guess.

Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:59 pm [VOTE: rondo] aubergine

Disagree with wilgy wagon

If not you or Wilgy, then who?

It does seem like me, Ranmilia, and RDB independently came to the same vote (even if the latter was pure self pres)

Is it really Abby/ted? I don't know anymore

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine None of the RDB pairings feel likely. Hope you're right.

Both RDB and Wilgy feel like 50/50s to me, so hard to say which one I prefer

If RDB dies today, that'd be the third time in a row the previous day's CW went down

Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:43 pm He also states that Wilgy doesn't care enough about remaining alive to be a wolf.

That feels like a contradiction, doesn't town have more to lose by dying here?

Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:43 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:41 pm
Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:39 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:34 pm
Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:33 pm i mean 60 is slanking for abby

Kinda seemed autopiloty today on slight skim

Maybe w/w with Wilgy if I am right on that
How confident are you in Wilgy over Alexy?

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:35 pm @Cape90 @potentialsheltervet how confident are you in this? i don't have time to do more and jack's advice is to vote with you two
I think both give just about an equal amount of info. Not really that confident though
Well, if you're wrong, the game could end, so forgive me if I want to be careful
how would the game end?

I don't know, the OP just says it can

Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:39 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:34 pm
Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:33 pm i mean 60 is slanking for abby

Kinda seemed autopiloty today on slight skim

Maybe w/w with Wilgy if I am right on that
How confident are you in Wilgy over Alexy?

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:35 pm @Cape90 @potentialsheltervet how confident are you in this? i don't have time to do more and jack's advice is to vote with you two
I think both give just about an equal amount of info. Not really that confident though

Well, if you're wrong, the game could end, so forgive me if I want to be careful

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:39 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:38 pm Although if we mislynch on one side, numbers-wise it makes sense for wolves to shoot in the other side. Maybe we can take that into consideration?
Hm? I don't think it really matters. We're all blended now. Unless you just mean narrowing the field of confusion.

For example, if we mislynch someone on your side, then wolves shoot another, we'll be left with one town and one wolf, basically a thunderdome. Thus, it benefits wolves to shoot on my side to keep the options open.

Although if we mislynch on one side, numbers-wise it makes sense for wolves to shoot in the other side. Maybe we can take that into consideration?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:34 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:32 pm I mean, I'd probably prefer to lynch on my side, especially as the other side's "consensus" seems to no longer be a consensus. But if nobody's biting, what can I do?
You think Abby is the wolfiest?

Yeah, well the "least towniest" at least. Her voting record and interactions are unimpressive, and it's hard to think of a wolf team that doesn't include her.

Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:33 pm i mean 60 is slanking for abby

Kinda seemed autopiloty today on slight skim

Maybe w/w with Wilgy if I am right on that

How confident are you in Wilgy over Alexy?

I mean, I'd probably prefer to lynch on my side, especially as the other side's "consensus" seems to no longer be a consensus. But if nobody's biting, what can I do?

It seems the people from my side are slanking. Great.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:19 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:36 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:28 pm So Rondo voting TSP effectively has no meaning?
Anyway, what do you think of Alexy vs. ted in terms of claims?
Eh, again, I'm really bad about claims. I keep reading Ran's mech tldr and I don't parse anything of it.

I'd likely vote Ted over Alexy rn though. Greater chance of hitting a W just due to numbers on each side. Plus in skimming Ted's ISO I feel they have been more keen to mech discussion rather than drawing conclusions from it.

Alexy's reason for voting Ted also goes over my head, so it feels like useless data to me.

If the wolf on your side isn't you or Alexy, who is it?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:12 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:23 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:42 am PoE: Ted/Abigail>Alexy>Leetic/Ran

Rondo resolves against Ted.

Ran Resolves against Abigail.

This is the way.
what exactly does this "resolves against" mean?
Tes Rondo aren't W/W and feels a little dif-like (I say this in the most unsure way) so we can resolve Rondo by flipping Ted or vise versa.

What makes you think they can't be t/t? Is Ranmilia/Abby not a possibility?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:10 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:40 pm Hmm. Yeah.
[VOTE: Dr Wilgy ] aubergine

Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:56 pm [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Why?

It just bothers me how I have been talking about this and Wilgy ignored me really discussing my arguments against him

Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:59 pm [VOTE: leetic] aubergine
No

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:03 pm I guess I'll move back to [VOTE: Abby] aubergine to see if anyone will follow me.
What? Why arent you pushing alexy for pushing you?

What exactly is there to "push" when they haven't provided a reason? It's not like I've ignored the slot

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:08 pm ok I am in the middle of yet another linux install so I have a moment while it does that. Anything big happen?

Who are you gonna vote?

I guess I'll move back to [VOTE: Abby] aubergine to see if anyone will follow me.

Well, one hour 'til EoD, and three people have not voted

Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:59 pm [VOTE: leetic] aubergine

Why?

Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:58 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:00 pm Living Players

@Alexy - posts
@Cape90 - posts
@DrWilgy - posts
Dubz / @RondoDimBuckle - posts
@leetic - posts
@potentialsheltervet - posts
@☆Princess Abigail☆ - posts
@Ranmilia - posts
@tedxtr - posts

You're alive. Please review the new rules in the first post before proceeding.

@DarlingMonroe has been removed from the game.

Spoiler: show
You’re a severed employee working at Lumon Industries (town).

You begin the game knowing that [redacted] is also aligned with the town. You may share a separate behind-the-scenes chat space in the Discord Hub provided by the host.

@Bereft has been removed from the game.

@tutuu has been removed from the game.

Spoiler: show
You're a severed employee working at Lumon Industries (town).

You have no special abilities.

Day Five will is underway. You have 48 hours to vote someone out.

NOTE: While this is not technically an "endgame" phase in the classical sense, it is possible for the game to end this cycle. The only certain path to continuation is by voting out a mafia member.
Does this not indicate bereft is town? Like, i know spoiler is under tutu but I feel like it just applies to both players it's under??

Bereft was removed due to being partners with DM, they were already dead by that point. Partners can have different alignments, as with Brad/Made.

Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:56 pm [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

It just bothers me how I have been talking about this and Wilgy ignored me really discussing my arguments against him

Did he even show up lately, or is this a recurring issue?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:53 pm Does no one else think it odd for there to be both a tracker and a watcher? Seems unusual.

Not particularly, I'd be more concerned with combinations like doctor/watcher

Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:50 pm Isn't Brad lime coke? Who was a wolf...? Why do we care what they thought?

We don't explicitly know that Bereft is town, so I would like some corroboration on his claims. Which apparently were made up or misconstrued.

Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:51 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:46 pm
Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:43 pm like idk why he would lie, but ig thats possible lol
Brad said that Bereft was acting trolly and trying to push the idea that Porscha was a wolf. Is that true?
If Bereft was acting trolly, they were doing so very dryly so i wouldn't know

They did randomly say they thought Porscha's neighbor was a wolf, idk who's connected to Porscha. They didnt call Porscha a wolf though.

Okay, so Brad was most likely making things up. Abby was Porscha's partner by the way, which adds up since Bereft was suspecting Abby.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:45 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:44 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:43 pm Huh, I'm glad Cape remembers that because I don't even remember Bereft being in our thread.
Can't you still double-check your thread?
Bereft showed up. I just have no memory of it. But it happened! The proof is right there.

Bereft's ISO should be linked in the OP of that thread?

Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:43 pm like idk why he would lie, but ig thats possible lol

Brad said that Bereft was acting trolly and trying to push the idea that Porscha was a wolf. Is that true?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:43 pm Huh, I'm glad Cape remembers that because I don't even remember Bereft being in our thread.

Can't you still double-check your thread?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:42 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:40 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:38 pm Anyone else kinda want to flash wagon Wilgy or Ted?
Wilgy idk, ted probably no. What do you think of the apparent disparity in PRs between the threads?
I'm honestly not that worried about it? Really I haven't thought about it too much beyond what's been discussed here.
As for the watcher claim one of them is lying and I've decided there being a specific prohibition against watching kills is just too weird to be sensical. That's what's making me side-eye ted.
Wilgy has had strange pushes all game tbh, and while initially I wanted to believe in him for being the pushing vote on ilario, tutuu proved he'd done the same thing previously in the exact same situation. So not clearing. And I can't shake that he'd benefit way more from killing tutuu and/or scotty than Alexy would.

Although what do you make of Alexy's weird targets? It reads like a wolf trying to catch town investigative roles rather than town trying to catch the killer

Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:40 pm i also debate killing from the other thread because i believe they havent killed as many mafia as we did unless im mistaken

We've killed only one, although to be fair we don't know Bereft's role.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:40 pm
Cape90 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:35 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:34 pm Family's going ham so I'm distracted and in and out. Jack is a staunch believer in one of the watcher claims always being a wolf (we are not in full agreement on this) but also says his wilgy faith is shaken.
what do you mean "his wilgy faith" by what?
the thing earlier where wilgy did some vca and wanted abi and said "ran resolves against abi"

we are in agreement that abi is town and think that was a very sketch thing to say

If you are really in agreement that Abby, me, and you presumably are town, why aren't you going after RDB/ted? You seem a bit boxed in that regard

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:38 pm Anyone else kinda want to flash wagon Wilgy or Ted?

Wilgy idk, ted probably no. What do you think of the apparent disparity in PRs between the threads?

Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:27 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:22 pm If it's really between DrWilgy and Alexy, that's a 50% anyway? Same as the chances of voting out a wolf in my thread. Still, the bigger problem is that none of those options are picking up steam
Sounds a little like admitting you know the number of wolves left from your thread, no?

Has anyone not been working under the assumption of three wolves per thread? Dizzy jumped on this too and it was just as stupid

Although I guess one wolf on that side is confirmed via nightkills, whereas two wolves on our side isn't

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:22 pm
Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:17 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:15 pm
Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:09 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:05 pm
Alexy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:04 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:02 pm

Was there any mention in your role card of whether you can watch kills or not?
We've discussed this at least twice. No. My role says I can pick a player on two separate nights and I will be told who visited them that night. That is all.
Okay
Who do you think is wolfiest from our side of the thread?
At this point? You tbh. The tunnel on me for nearly the entire game is weird. You've turned my lowposting into this case against me, there's really nothing else. Last game we played together you were barely present and you were town. You've been here quite a bit more than I'm used to.
That's not an accurate characterization of my play from last game but fine. I have been tunneling you this game because I feel like you haven't really given many thoughts or ideas. You've been floating when you're here and I find that curious.
Have you ever played with me before? When have I ever given many thoughts or ideas?

In any case, that's fine, but I don't think it's a good enough case to vote me off today vs. someone on the night thread.
The thing is, at this point it feels like the night thread is a shot in the dark. There's no consensus on even what the PoE is and I haven't the foggiest who I'd pick. There's still very likely a wolf from our team, and it's either Dr. Wilgy or you unless Cape really pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. I'll take the 50/50 over the 20/80.

If you treat me as town (of which Alexy is the only one pushing against) it's also a 50/50 on my side. Still, I agree it's confusing and nobody on that side seems willing to congregate anywhere, which is perhaps the bigger issue.

If it's really between DrWilgy and Alexy, that's a 50% anyway? Same as the chances of voting out a wolf in my thread. Still, the bigger problem is that none of those options are picking up steam

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:09 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:08 pm At what point did ted bring up not being able to watch kills? How did that phrasing arise?
He brought it up when he fullclaimed D3 (he claimed PR D2 but didn't specify further. He didn't claim roleblocked, which caught Windward's attention).

He claimed "2x watcher that can’t detect kills"

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:08 pm At what point did ted bring up not being able to watch kills? How did that phrasing arise?

He brought it up when he fullclaimed D3 (he claimed PR D2 but didn't specify further. He didn't claim roleblocked, which caught Windward's attention).

It is admittedly interesting that Alexy seemingly picked suboptimal targets for a watcher

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:00 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 7:58 pm The other thread seems more certain on Alexy, which may justify us going there, even if we have a better statistical chance of hitting a wolf in my side
Be awfully cringe if I was wrong on Alexy and tutuu/Scotty were right on Dr Wilgy, haha. Yikes
Let it be noted that tutuu very firmly believed DW was a wolf and cased him bussing a partner in a previous game in the same way he would've bussed ilario if they were partners here. Scotty also proclaimed DW was bad. Now they're both dead. Coincidence?
...I mean, behaviorally it seems like Alexy, but if you follow the night kills you can't ignore the shiftiness in that.

Although we don't know which of tutuu/DM, if any, were killed by the wolves

Although maybe Bereft's role (and someone else's from the other side) is that they become SK at merge?

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