The Syndicate

I voted Mac partially in honor of MM and partially because it's the only vote I can make in good conscience

Snow Dog wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm gonna vote Mac today

Really? Because I was thinking him or Long Con.

I don't understand why people are thinking Long Con other than the Soneji thing to be honest.

Wigly you think pirates got wiped out last night?

I'm gonna vote Mac today

I miss MM already. Let's lynch a bad guy again.

I thought deadline was in an hour :'(

Can we move three spaces or four?

YEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Despite Mac's odd moment of honesty, I voted Soneji so I can sleep peacefully.
Have a lovely day kids, I'll try to check in in the morning and during bathroom breaks!

Deadline ends up being as soon as I get home from work tomorrow; I'm up for 40 minutes, and if Soneji doesn't post anything beautiful by then I'm voting there and praying.

I've gone from being annoyed by the whole not reading the role PM to desperately hoping that it's true; not true why Long Con still thinks that it's a long con.

you ever heard "the heart want it wants"?
it's like that. i want it not to be the case but it's the case and there's nothing I can do to change it without ignoring my heart and my soul and i simply cannot do that.

a2thezebra wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:Unfortunately the people I trust right this second are a grand total of 1) Zebra and 2) Snow Dog

does not compute

welcome to my life

Unfortunately the people I trust right this second are a grand total of 1) Zebra and 2) Snow Dog and that needs some reading and rereading to turn into anything compelling or with a >random chance to be right. And again, hopefully reading time comes tomorrow.

I will hopefully be around in full tomorrow.
Hopefully. But I also got shit to do so I might just be flying by the seat of my pants and voting Sonejii because the case he's provided for having me as a top read is absolute nonsense.

But then again my current attitude seems to be most things are nonsense so I might just sheep someone who seems like they're on fire right now.

Scotty wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Niju's post poll ending post fills me with confidence.

yeah I don't think *twiddles thumbs* comes from town who has just been lynched.

You judge harshly. I twiddle my thumbs in Monday-after-Thanksgiving deadness. Shall I scream in pain and agony instead for your amusement?

I'm putting my money on you being civ.

If I were your bank I would not grant you a loan.

Nachomamma8 wrote:i'm cool w/long con
if you vote soneji tomorrow i won't vote you

What does "cool" mean in this context?

Because LC's agreement with Soneji on zebra and his successive agreement with zebra on soneji is scummy as shit. I'm firmly in the belief that LC is bad.

Cool means that I think that he's good.
I don't why the two quotes people pointed out look scummy; break it down for me, please?

Scotty wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Scotty wrote:Ok folks's, I've got a lot to do in prep for thanksgiving (happy turkey day, US of A!) including prepping my first tofurkey (wtf). I'm sated for now with soneji's response to the "MP is civ" thing. I think I'd rather vote Boom today, so I'll go ahead and do that. Godspeed, brave adventurers!

boom

Why did you decide to vote for Boomslang here? I don't remember him being one of the targets that you liked to talk about the most, and I'd expect me pushing his lynch to dampen your enthusiasm a bit.

Boomslang was on my list from N1 missed kills. Sure he wasn't one I was talking about the most, but then I talk about candy corn all the time. Doesn't mean I'm gonna make a meal out of it.
Why would your pushing his lynch detract from or attract me to his lynch? I found him more suspicious than you.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Scotty wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I would like to point out that I am not also Snow Dog.

i feel like zebras are far less quarrelsome in the savannah. Zebras wrestling with dogs and...whatever the hell Mac's avatar is...unheard of!

Also, GTH who would you vote for right now?

mac, what is your avatar?

I want to vote MM. Anyone want to join me?

I don't really understand your case on MM; him voting Black Rock for not doing anything while saying that he wasn't doing anything was the crux of your case against him, correct? Don't you think there was a considerable difference between MM's play and Black Rock's?

Not the crux, no. But I was already suspicious of Epi's random push for BR, and that MM jumped on it without even thinking, and without even mentioning it before made my hair bristle.

Your continued discussion of candy corn made me think that candy corn was a top candy for you. I'd imagine voting with a top scum suspect is a bit weird unless you're assuming bussing, no? Or do you not care about your other reads when you're voting?

So MM making an impulsive vote on a pirate makes your hair bristle? Why?

Soneji wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Soneji wrote:Seems they have gone more the route of letting the activity slow down to a crawl rather than try to take the lead now that most of the top level/most active players are dead. The players I was watching this phase were Long Con and Nacho. As I pointed out in my ISO of Long Con, he backed off of Wilgy due to Nacho's insistence that Wilgy's role PM antics weren't scum indicative. This was odd to me considering LC going after MP for supposed buddying but then allowing someone he has no reason to trust to sway his view on another player, rather than suspecting them of buddying/defending a scummate. That Nacho has fallen off the face of the earth in activity after d1 is a big red flag.

My vote will be on LC or Nacho today.

Why is me falling off in activity suspicious? Do you generally find it pretty common that people who have the ability to post a lot as mafia post a lot Day 1 and then are completely unable to post later in the game? Why would I struggle posting when I could scumhunt legitimately?

It is completely withib the realm of possibility to me that scum could be very active d1 where there is no info to go by and its easy to forgivably mislynch(which you did) then drop off activity later.

This could be due to any combination of a lack of ability to keep up the charade, not wanting to have to be town's leader to then potentially have to be accountable for mislynches, their scummates being suspects and not wanting to seem suspect themselves by putting attention elsewhere, not wanting to be night killed by the other scum team, etc.

Two mafia games make it easier for mafia to legitimately scumhunt but it still hampers their ability. They still have their own teammates to false read, still have to get some mislynches on townies to win.

You never explained why you found it suspicious. You said "hey it could be possible!" but you never said why it was the case. You don't see how a person's activity can tank when they don't have time?

motel room wrote:oh dead again, i see

At least you got shot this time!

i'm cool w/long con
if you vote soneji tomorrow i won't vote you

Snow Dog wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:

I have four votes for no good reason that I saw. I said my defense. It did nothing. I'm rather annoyed that it happened this way, actually. However, I see no reason to react ridiculously, as it changes nothing.

If I am right and you are civ, I fear that the mafia has a good grip on this game. I wanted to say something els and completely forgotten it.

I agree. Who are your other suspects? What are we going to do to absolutely ruin their position?

I don't know. Lynches are strange. From nowhere it seems a lynch train appears and previous suspects are forgotten. Maybe we need to go back to the beginning. It is possible that one civ (threepwood) already knows for certain who some civs are. Unless of course Threepwood is a low poster.

I agree that this game feels weird since we probably have all the tools to win but can't properly use them (info-dumping), and people not flipping when they are nightkilled unusual to me in a multifaction game; we currently have no idea how many scum we are actually dealing with or how many of our strong PRs are dead which kind of kills all point of having a POE (since no way to check on how well we're doing). I thought when Golden died that the cannibals killed him and not having a body was part of their kill method (ala Donner's Party), but feeling a bit overwhelmed since that isn't the case.

MacDougall wrote:You like him because he is town reading you.

You're only saying that because you're scumreading her.

Snow Dog wrote:Isn't gut just an easy way for mafia to vote someone?

Depends. If the person is known to generally make well-reasoned votes, they can't really get away with using "gut" as a reason often. If they are not, then yes, but that also means that said player is also likely to make gut votes as town. In this game, the people I'm expecting to rely on "gut" often are probably: Wilgy, Vompatti, Zebra, MM; Golden and MP, when talking about them, use words like "random" or "WIFOM-laden" and other people agree, which means that they aren't as likely to scumhunt in the way that you're expecting them to.

a2thezebra wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I fully support the lynch of anyone that isn't DrWilgy, Metalmarsh89, motel room 2.0, sig, Vompatti, and myself.

sig being on the "DO NOT LYNCH" list despite you scumreading him is a sad sad thing

I made it clear that I have had and continue to have a town read of sig. You can say my reasoning is weak but I have not once read him as scum.

I might be missing out on your reasoning; from my memory, it was that you were scumreading him but you're usually wrong on him and thus you think he is town.

Correct, so I'm not scumreading him. I'm going against my gut because the empirical evidence is overwhelmingly against it in sig's case.

And hence why I said that it made me sad that you were scumreading him and still townreading him.
Your correct that your conclusion is that sig is town, but that doesn't change the fact that your heart is in the right place; that's why I am sad.

No, it's not. Because both my heart's reasons and your head's reasons for reading sig as bad are adjacent to his civ behavior.

I'm confused; what are you saying "no it's not" in reference to?
I have no commentary on who is right or who is wrong on sig; just noting that we are probably seeing the same stuff in sig and either A) you are right and have more experience with him to make a more educated decision, or B) you are wrong and am distrusting your gut right when your gut was correct for once. Both situations are sad to me.

And as a point against the ever-lurking Soneji, I find that he's putting down a vote that obviously isn't going anywhere today (unless he honestly believes that "Nacho is lurking now and wasn't always lurking!" is gonna fly, which I doubt) is a move coming from mafia that's confident in their overall position; Scotty's EoD bothers me for a similar reason, but he at least seems earnest in his scumhunting (although the "oops I should look for Cannibals" bothers the shit out of me).

Snow Dog wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:

I have four votes for no good reason that I saw. I said my defense. It did nothing. I'm rather annoyed that it happened this way, actually. However, I see no reason to react ridiculously, as it changes nothing.

If I am right and you are civ, I fear that the mafia has a good grip on this game. I wanted to say something els and completely forgotten it.

I agree. Who are your other suspects? What are we going to do to absolutely ruin their position?

a2thezebra wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I fully support the lynch of anyone that isn't DrWilgy, Metalmarsh89, motel room 2.0, sig, Vompatti, and myself.

sig being on the "DO NOT LYNCH" list despite you scumreading him is a sad sad thing

I made it clear that I have had and continue to have a town read of sig. You can say my reasoning is weak but I have not once read him as scum.

I might be missing out on your reasoning; from my memory, it was that you were scumreading him but you're usually wrong on him and thus you think he is town.

Correct, so I'm not scumreading him. I'm going against my gut because the empirical evidence is overwhelmingly against it in sig's case.

And hence why I said that it made me sad that you were scumreading him and still townreading him.
Your correct that your conclusion is that sig is town, but that doesn't change the fact that your heart is in the right place; that's why I am sad.

nijuukyugou wrote:

I have four votes for no good reason that I saw. I said my defense. It did nothing. I'm rather annoyed that it happened this way, actually. However, I see no reason to react ridiculously, as it changes nothing.

And the reason why I'm asking for guidance from you is because, if you are town, town's next top suspect seems to be Zebra which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. This means that any words you have as a soon to be confirmed town could be the difference between getting town back on track versus eating ourselves alive.

nijuukyugou wrote:

I have four votes for no good reason that I saw. I said my defense. It did nothing. I'm rather annoyed that it happened this way, actually. However, I see no reason to react ridiculously, as it changes nothing.

I'm sorry. I don't know why you were lynched either, as I missed yet another day.
Who are your suspects? Who do you want us to kill in your name?

And Soneji is here right this moment so maybe we can all chat together; am interesting in particular in hearing him flesh out his reasoning for scumreading me in full while I do a quick ISO on him.

a2thezebra wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I fully support the lynch of anyone that isn't DrWilgy, Metalmarsh89, motel room 2.0, sig, Vompatti, and myself.

sig being on the "DO NOT LYNCH" list despite you scumreading him is a sad sad thing

I made it clear that I have had and continue to have a town read of sig. You can say my reasoning is weak but I have not once read him as scum.

I might be missing out on your reasoning; from my memory, it was that you were scumreading him but you're usually wrong on him and thus you think he is town.

nijuukyugou wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Niju's post poll ending post fills me with confidence.

yeah I don't think *twiddles thumbs* comes from town who has just been lynched.

You judge harshly. I twiddle my thumbs in Monday-after-Thanksgiving deadness. Shall I scream in pain and agony instead for your amusement?

You could, for it would amuse me.
Or, you could give me a recap of your last significant suspects before you die so that we have something to pursue in order to avenge you if you flip town. What do you think of sig and Sonejii?

a2thezebra wrote:I fully support the lynch of anyone that isn't DrWilgy, Metalmarsh89, motel room 2.0, sig, Vompatti, and myself.

sig being on the "DO NOT LYNCH" list despite you scumreading him is a sad sad thing

Like the argument you gave there was "Long Con thought that buddying was scummy, and so changing his mind on a line of logic presented is scummy". This is a nonsense line of argument unless I'm misunderstanding it pretty horribly.

Soneji wrote:Seems they have gone more the route of letting the activity slow down to a crawl rather than try to take the lead now that most of the top level/most active players are dead. The players I was watching this phase were Long Con and Nacho. As I pointed out in my ISO of Long Con, he backed off of Wilgy due to Nacho's insistence that Wilgy's role PM antics weren't scum indicative. This was odd to me considering LC going after MP for supposed buddying but then allowing someone he has no reason to trust to sway his view on another player, rather than suspecting them of buddying/defending a scummate. That Nacho has fallen off the face of the earth in activity after d1 is a big red flag.

My vote will be on LC or Nacho today.

And THESE are your top two suspects?
Why is Long Con backing off Wilgy for the "not reading his role PM" thing scum indicative; the explanation he gave seemed to be a very "common sense" one and I'm not sure how you missed that possibility.

Soneji wrote:Seems they have gone more the route of letting the activity slow down to a crawl rather than try to take the lead now that most of the top level/most active players are dead. The players I was watching this phase were Long Con and Nacho. As I pointed out in my ISO of Long Con, he backed off of Wilgy due to Nacho's insistence that Wilgy's role PM antics weren't scum indicative. This was odd to me considering LC going after MP for supposed buddying but then allowing someone he has no reason to trust to sway his view on another player, rather than suspecting them of buddying/defending a scummate. That Nacho has fallen off the face of the earth in activity after d1 is a big red flag.

My vote will be on LC or Nacho today.

Why is me falling off in activity suspicious? Do you generally find it pretty common that people who have the ability to post a lot as mafia post a lot Day 1 and then are completely unable to post later in the game? Why would I struggle posting when I could scumhunt legitimately?

DrWilgy wrote:Niju's post poll ending post fills me with confidence.

yeah I don't think *twiddles thumbs* comes from town who has just been lynched.

Scotty wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I would like to point out that I am not also Snow Dog.

i feel like zebras are far less quarrelsome in the savannah. Zebras wrestling with dogs and...whatever the hell Mac's avatar is...unheard of!

Also, GTH who would you vote for right now?

mac, what is your avatar?

I want to vote MM. Anyone want to join me?

I don't really understand your case on MM; him voting Black Rock for not doing anything while saying that he wasn't doing anything was the crux of your case against him, correct? Don't you think there was a considerable difference between MM's play and Black Rock's?

sig wrote:Is there a case on Boomslang? I'm reading through haven't seen one yet. I don't like either Zerba's or Boom's wagon right now.

Also Quin voted for me and then left a good vote, which avoids all attention and allows him to not get involved in either wagon.

I think Quin is mafia, I could see myself voting there today.

I could still vote for sig.

Scotty wrote:Ok folks's, I've got a lot to do in prep for thanksgiving (happy turkey day, US of A!) including prepping my first tofurkey (wtf). I'm sated for now with soneji's response to the "MP is civ" thing. I think I'd rather vote Boom today, so I'll go ahead and do that. Godspeed, brave adventurers!

boom

Why did you decide to vote for Boomslang here? I don't remember him being one of the targets that you liked to talk about the most, and I'd expect me pushing his lynch to dampen your enthusiasm a bit.

a2thezebra wrote:

Scotty wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Y'know what...

I still think mp was bad.

I do too.

To both of you: why.

And how does that help you sort things out right now?

MP gave me a soft baddie read. If he was civ, he would have given me a hard baddie read at the time. He was disingenuous and bad.

I've generally found that people who believe that there is only one possible thing that can happen in any given situation are not right often.

motel room wrote:fwiw, there is a reasonable reason I'd accept there but soneji was in the thread for a little while after I posted that and has now gone. For posterity.

Vompatti wrote:I voted for Soneji for making false claims and for voting for a confirmed civilian.

Pretty quick to pull that trigger. Also, what?

Liked this post though.

motel room wrote:Speaking of

Soneji wrote:Zebra has had a very narrow focus this game, without giving anything to backup these reads and trolling/harassing people. His aim seems to be to distract, which as LC noted he wasn't doing d1 when the two main suspects were MP and motel room, both town.

How do you know MP was town?

I see the point being made here, don't really buy into it as a slip.
Where is your fire? I was expecting your reentry to break down doors and burn down houses, but from what I've read so far, it certainly hasn't been that.

Could someone talk to me about why zebra is picking up votes?
Starting to reread the last 10 pages so I have a general sense of the game, then will start on ISOs.

Vompatti wrote:

Long Con wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Bye Boomslang we hardly knew ye.

Are we really just gonna not discuss the fact that Wilgy hasn't read his role pm?

Does anyone actually still believe that's true? I never really thought he was being serious.

How is it relevant whether he has read it or not? Would knowing your role affect the way you play? Because it shouldn't.

what

DrWilgy wrote:I trust Niju less than Zebra... And Niju voted Zebra...

We must save Zebra.

I like the vote spread. It's abit harder to see who's good and who's bad from ith though. Power votes are Niju's, Scotty's, and perhaps me, Epi's and Quin's.

I could see Epi being a cannibal. I could see Boomslang and Niju being Pirates.

Linki - oh shit, whaddup another power vote. Nachomamma are you bad? I'm assuming I'm not on your team if I am.

For the last god damn time yes I am bad and yes you are on my team please for the love of God check your role PM

I voted Boomslang!
I'd probably think about this vote more if it wasn't Thanksgiving but it's Thanksgiving and I feel the case is strongest there.

Soneji, have you played with Zebra before? Is this unlike how he plays typically?
How do you think posting smilies and saying that he suspects Quin and Snow Dog for no reason will distract from a Black Rock lynch? Won't it just bring attention to Zebra...?

a2thezebra - Like that the entire purpose of his posts seem to be to cause conflict; I liked his reaction to the Golden kill. This townread is light; haven't played with him before, no idea what he looks like when bad so I don't really have a reference on whether he'd be reluctant to draw spotlight or not.
Boomslang - Liked his scumread on Quin earlier. Didn't like his interactions with Black Rock and don't like how the Quin read disappeared; I think that bringing up Wigly as an alternative to Black Rock was a bit opportunistic (an easy enough target that it might actually go through) and shows bad progression (where did the Quin read go), but this theory is weakened by him not going for the counterwagon Zebra when it popped up. I'm considering voting here today.
Dr. Wilgy - Pretty okay with his posting so far; am guessing/hoping that he's read his role PM at this point, but the fact that it's possible that he doesn't know what alignment he is means that he's always available for a lynch.
Epignosis - Like the conviction he pressed MP with, liked the conviction displayed when he thought that the pirates missed a night kill. I also like how he said that there were probably bussers on the Black Rock wagon after she got lynched and urged people to look for him; seems like an odd play for scum who was looking for a good chunk of town cred after that scum flip in particular. Strongest town read.
Long Con - Think he is town, mostly due to gut so far. I think the reasons Golden pointed out for him to be town based on his role speculation make sense, I liked his suspicion of MP based on the buddying tell and how he explained it; seemed genuine to me.
MacDougall - Seemed genuine very early. That was a long time ago, looking forward to him producing some content down the road.
Metalmarsh89 - Been townreading him for the entire game, don't really have concrete reasons off the top of my head (although I'm sure I could figure it out with an ISO) but I've liked his tone this game.
motel room 2.0 - Liked his entry, but nothing exceptional.
Nijuukyugou - Probably scum; there are a few small things here and there that make me willing to give them more space to work, but I haven't seen anything strong enough to be willing to stand behind it.
Quin - Second strongest townread, also mostly a toneread but I'll explain in full why it's strengthened when I have time (probably).
Scotty - Strong town; I liked Scotty's question about the number of nightkills, I liked Scotty's process when he started thinking about me being scum, and I liked him talking about how he didn't know what a good nightkill was.
Sig - Still a scumread; didn't like the push on MP at all and don't like how he hasn't done much of anything outside of that.
Snow Dog - Strong townread; there are a few tonal reads that I can explain when I have time but think they look pretty good.
Soneji - Mostly seems reasonable, but hasn't posted anything that stands out.
Vompatti - Don't like lack of engagement, liked him more early game.

I will definitely have time to flesh some of these out in full over Night and tier them properly (although you should probably be able to guess where people stand based on the blurbs); I think the thing that stands out to me that most is Boomslang responding to the Black Rock suggestion by magicking a DrWilgy read out of nowhere and would vote there if I was able to change votes (and maybe will end up voting there if I don't have time to catch up when I get back from work today). Sig vote isn't far behind, but I also wouldn't protest a vote on anyone that isn't explicitly a townread.

The more significant point was Wigly suspicion coming out of nowhere and Quin suspicion dropping out of nowhere.