The Syndicate

It's about to get crazy

Quin wrote:sig is starting to feel like a runaway wagon.

Runaway from me baby!

Dyslexicon wrote:Sig could have voted me though, or another counter wagon. Although that would've looked scum as hell.

In what world does civ Sig decide that Golden is going to be lynched and that's where his vote is best placed...?

I liked that people have a bunch of different reads on me!

And additionally another "hip hip hooray!" for changeable votes!!!

Boo!

Vote: Sig

This isn't all I will say before EoD unless I'm feeling especially cruel.

Liking Soneji.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:Jack: I'm not that good, but the reason why I'm considered as aggressive as I am is because I often use strongly worded rhetoric to make points that I feel strongly about/want people to zero in on for some reason. I'm confused why you think it's a scumtell for me when I mislynched you in such spectacular fashion last time you saw me as town and it certainly wasn't a big part of my game when I was scum unless I'm missing something completely.
Being forward and aggressive isn't scummy.

Acting like your job is done, patting yourself on the back and then coasting is. Not sure if you've actually coasted but hey, appropriate response to appropriate level of scumminess in my eyes. Minor. But more than most players at this point.

You never declared your work done when you got me lynched way back when.

Oh, that makes more sense.

Finding a silver platter slip is different from pushing through a strong scumread, the "my work is done, I'm voting scum" wasn't implying that I caught Dizzy or anything to that effect; I was merely noting that it was less urgent for me to catch up that second and was considering sleeping, but ended up catching up anyways.

Long Con wrote:What does this mean, to "fail a quickhammer"?

There were 5 scum alive, and 11 players alive. Majority means that the second a player reaches majority vote, the lynch is locked and the thread goes to night, meaning that if a townie misvotes, scum can pile on and win the game. My partner and I were messing around in the scum QT late at night, both counted wrong, and voted at the exact same time and the same way we quickhammered in a recent game where we were scum together, and didn't realize our mistake until another scum partner pointed out that we put him at L-1.

Jack: I'm not that good, but the reason why I'm considered as aggressive as I am is because I often use strongly worded rhetoric to make points that I feel strongly about/want people to zero in on for some reason. I'm confused why you think it's a scumtell for me when I mislynched you in such spectacular fashion last time you saw me as town and it certainly wasn't a big part of my game when I was scum unless I'm missing something completely.

Nachomamma8 wrote:Vote: Scotty

I failed a quickhammer in LyLo as scum before!

***

Which, coincidentally, ended up being ignored partially because it was "too obvious" and I "wouldn't make such a silly mistake as scum".

I probably would have unvoted without the link; my big problem with his posting was the "I guess I don't fit in here" post which looked a lot more like scum giving up and feeling bad after slipping than it did fakeslipping town.

Fred, if you're suspecting JJJ for the sake of suspecting him then I think you're taking a silly approach; making sure everyone gets attention is good but you're better off questioning people than you are artificially dragging them down in your reads list and telling them that's what you're doing.

Vote: Scotty

I failed a quickhammer in LyLo as scum before!

***

Vote: Scotty[/red]

I failed a quickhammer in LyLo as scum before!

Golden thought that I was role/item fishing, what I was doing is fishing for reactions.

I thought that it was possible someone could think that I had slipped knowledge of JJJ not having the map if I said that I knew he was faking it/thought it was possible there was someone who would push back strongly against me for item-fishing. I don't think that the initial comment was harmful because all I gave was an unsubstantiated opinion that may or may not be a false one; the person who I was interested in responding in particular was INH because I thought his map perspective was weird but have cooled on that after his follow up pushes. I'm shutting the test down because people have probably talked about it too much for it to be useful anymore.

Other people that could die are Soneji for his perspective on Silver Lantern who is painfully and unmistakably obvtown, and Scotty for lame presence this game when he had awesome presence as town last game and underwhelming presence as scum.

I think Strawhenge joins Silver Lantern and Fred for my "bet the farm" townreads, feel pretty good about the big three in Quin/JJJ/Golden so far although incidentally those three is where I'm the most cautious in my townreading.

Also townreading nutella and INH and probably other people to a degree less than the SUPATOWN group but more than the big three. Am sure that I'm missing things but too tired to figure out what, fading out now.

insertnamehere wrote:I have no problem with people lying in order to protect the person with the actual map.

The part I have a problem with is fake-claimers taking votes away from the person with the REAL map, causing us to go places we don't want to go.

None have claimed that Map information told them which way to go, which is why your push is as flawed as it is but suddenly I've lost confidence in a vote I haven't even made yet.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Bad Guys R In Here:

Quin
Long Con
JOH
DrWilgy
Sorsha
speedchuck
Scotty
Elohcin
DFaraday
Dyslexicon
Nachomamma

Yeah it's a huge list. Don't care.

Spoiler: show

Remove me and speedchuck and maaaaaybe Quin and you're three steps closer to solving the game!
Why is Marmot a townread?

Dyslexicon slip is fairly compelling. I reiterate the call for no majority yet, but think that people who are afraid of a hammer when we still need 7 votes to get there is probably overly cautious.

Vote: Dyslexicon

speedchuck wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There are 159 posts in this thread, and 102 of them belong the last four players to make a post plus the host.
Yeah, that's a thing.
For people like me, this is going to be a lot of catch up reading after the weekends.
I have half a mind to get my mafia buddies to kill all of you gabbers.

Also, I'm fairly sure that it's too late to say that I have the map. But we should definitely go east. We should get no closer to the Yanks.

I swear I'll learn your names and help lynch one of you during the week.

All my love.

Liked this post and just realize we have a little more time than I thought we did.

Tempted to go to sleep since I've already found scum, but will attempt plugging away so I have less to catchup on during my fun filled day tomorrow.

nutella wrote:
Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.
Is this fishing?
A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.
That's good. I don't think the type of fishing I was accusing you of is wise.
What's going on here? What are the two types of fishing you guys are referring to? the original quote seems pretty straightforward to me, so Golden what did you think he was fishing for and Nacho what do you mean by that answer? I feel really dumb right now but I feel like I'm missing something in subtext here and I don't like missing things.

I'm also confused about a couple other things I'll get to in another post

Was cryptic for a reason, but I'll be happy to respond after a certain player responds/doesn't respond if it still tugs at you.

Fredwood wrote:Additionally it is interesting* to see the push on appearing overly Civilian*

I guess that conditioning has made me not trust people who appear blatantly town (CIV). TBF I really only trust myself, and even the, just on special occasions.

Fredwood civ read continues to solidify.
Which, based on his reasoning here, means I should trust him less.
Hmmm...

insertnamehere wrote:
Scotty wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:North-east because I like a little of everything.

Lynch: Scotty

His support of me in the map business looked fake. Also I appreciate those who entrusted the map to me, I will do my best to live up the appropriate standard.
I'm sorry it looked fake.

It's because it was.

I voted for INH to receive the map
Cheers, although it was ultimately in vain as I am 100% mapless.

I will say that I dislike very much the fact that three different people all claimed to possess the map. I voted for MM, so his claim at least has some legitimacy in my eyes.

Going into Day 1, 3J and Golden both get the squinty-raised-eyebrow treatment from me. I'm not willing to vote for them yet (as we have 60 GODDAMN HOURS to do so), but I'm gonna be watching their posts.

Golden wrote:No map for me

I've never been voted to get anything like that. Maybe one day.

Golden wrote:I wouldn't have chosen to say this in a vacuum, but since I already said I didn't get the map...

I did get the map. I was just impatient and assumed the PM had gone elsewhere.

It doesn't feel massively helpful, but it does enable me to turn the compass directions on this poll (and others) into specific locations. If we go to a location that turns out to be favourable, I might be able to help us get back there. It looks like you can't get everywhere from everywhere, though. For now, it's meaningless to me.

Thanks to those who trusted me. It genuinely is the first time I've been elected to get one of these! I assumed it had gone to Jay.
This little flippity flop especially struck me the wrong way.

Bad post, don't like it at all.

There was some concern that claiming to have the map could paint a target on people's backs, so a civilian claiming map when they don't have it obscures who has it and thus protects the civilian with a map. I don't like your push on JJJ/Golden for a couple reasons: 1) it's likelier than both of them have the map than Marmot even though you talked about voting Marmot; multiple people talked about voting JJJ and Golden makes a good target by rep alone, 2) it's an extraordinarily shallow thing to hammer on that has nothing to do with alignment which is something I think you're aware of.

Silver Lantern wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Soneji wrote: A rather strong reaction to what was a rather tame observation. Wants evidence supporting the accusation but is already dismissing it as a fake argument, therefore backhandedly saying that Quin is scum.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Don't understand how Quin is reading into Sorsha's posts so strongly. Her responses to JJJ pretty plainly state that she would like for her vote to have given the map to a civ and that she doesn't have reason to suspect at the moment that the other girls are mafia.] aubergine
[VOTE:
Can't say I think that overreacting there is a scumtell; seems to me to be a personality thing more than anything although I will grant that the fact they didn't followthrough with Quin suspicion is strange (and, since they're around @Silver Lantern: why didn't you vote Quin after you thought that he was making a fake argument?).] aubergine
[VOTE:

I'm about to jump in the shower so quick answer: where I normally play voting for someone who just placed a vote on you is generally seen as overly defensive and possibly scummy. How's that for irony?

Also since I'm new I was not sure that Quin was tossing a serious accusation or testing my reaction, so I figured the passive aggressive response was in order.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Makes sense, thanks for the response.] aubergine

Golden wrote:Nacho, you were quieter in Unfortunate Events, and then turned out to be bad. This reminds me much more of your civ game on here (Monkey Island). Do you believe this is a meta tell I should read into, or just a matter of your circumstances at the time of each game?

Unvote

Circumstances.
Unfortunate events was unfortunately a very weak showing from me.

The people who are good at reading me tend to read me by tone/strength of my scumreads; my tone as town/mafia is quite different (although most people struggle with picking up on it) and I tend to overextend myself as scum with some of my mislynch pushes.

Fredwood wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There are 159 posts in this thread, and 102 of them belong the last four players to make a post plus the host.
To be fair the next two are us new folks. 8 posts is actually pretty good for me this early. I'm not a quiet player by any means but I'm also not a 800 post per game player like yourself.

I will say generating day 1 reads is viewed as kind of pointless where I play. It's always a point of contention on whether or not day 1's should be as useless as it is and whether or not we should have more games start on Night 0. As a result I've gotten in the bad habit of just checking in once on Day 1 just to say hello.

Additionally it is interested in seeing the push on civ reads. Usually I'm trying to play the fine line between appearing town and scum. If you're too town you usually get killed early. I will see how this develops.

I don't have the time to make offtopic posts but I see this a lot in Newbie Games and want to offer an opinion that maybe changes your view here -

Day 1 is a very important day for town because it has huge potential to swing the game against scum and is very important as far as "developing initial impressions" go. If you have a weak Day 1 where people don't post because they don't think nothing is alignment indicative, you will have a weak Day 2 - investigative roles can provide information yes but they don't exist in all games and while nightkills offer a limited bit of information (a decent amount in some circles), but in general they're a bad way to find scum because it's something that is completely controlled by scum and the number for reasons why scum kill people are pretty large and so it's easy to fuck up NKA.

I'd get into more of it right now if I wasn't in a rush but in a nutshell making Day 1s useful is one of the first steps people take before they go from okay players to good ones.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm open to other map requests, but I want to know how y'all intend to forge a civilian victory in this game if you are entrusted with it.
How is responding to the question "how will you forge a civilian victory in this game?" ever indicative of alignment? It seems to me that the most important factor of these items are getting them into town hands, no?
It's a question directly relevant to one's mindset and motivation. Its promise for alignment-indicative responses is limited as is essentially any spam-phase question, but yanno one has to ask something or another. When we're talking about this specific context, as in who is deserving of receiving an item which presumably can benefit the civilian cause, what kind of question would you ask instead?

Nachomamma8 wrote:I can see a case for Strawhenge (and probably agree now that I think about it), but why nutella?
I liked the way her brain went straight to the most recent example of a pre-game vote akin to the map in this one (her reference to "prefects" stems from a different game here) as she pondered aloud the matter of how to approach the map. It looked authentic.

I wouldn't ask a spam phase question because the answer very likely wouldn't factor into my overall read. I'd just wait to develop a townread and send the map to them, as I did.

I don't think that having an authentic approach to item sending has anything to do with alignment (it's game theory based, and scum can approach those situations honestly regardless of alignment) but I think I saw a nutella post that I liked so this is quickly losing relevance.

Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.
Is this fishing?

A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.

Soneji wrote: A rather strong reaction to what was a rather tame observation. Wants evidence supporting the accusation but is already dismissing it as a fake argument, therefore backhandedly saying that Quin is scum.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Don't understand how Quin is reading into Sorsha's posts so strongly. Her responses to JJJ pretty plainly state that she would like for her vote to have given the map to a civ and that she doesn't have reason to suspect at the moment that the other girls are mafia.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Can't say I think that overreacting there is a scumtell; seems to me to be a personality thing more than anything although I will grant that the fact they didn't followthrough with Quin suspicion is strange (and, since they're around @Silver Lantern: why didn't you vote Quin after you thought that he was making a fake argument?).] aubergine

Quin wrote:
Golden wrote:I didn't really expect Sorsha to consider the girls to be town. At this point, any argument for why one should be voted to have the map was inherently facetious.

I find Sorsha's response fair. She didn't say she read them as civilian, she said she had no reason to think they weren't. Useful pedantry. I disagree with Quin's assessment that she 'appeased' Jay.
By answering the questions the way she did, it looks like she's confirming her post to have been based on reads, which omits what I think the post was based on, the gimmick. That's the impression I get.

Disagree with that; just looked like she was being snarky.
Trying to appease Jay by taking the position that Eloh/Nutella were stronger townreads than everyone else would have been exceedingly silly.

nutella wrote:So if day 1 starts tonight I believe that means we have to have map votes in by 10pm EST today (a little over 6 hours from now).

I liked the way LC nominated himself, and I want to trust him I think. Though the way he worded it also felt like a preemptive safeguard against future suspicion on him. But I think that's fine.
I also feel super good about JJJ now. Super civ leader mode, strong green aura And I always want to trust Golden but I'm a little more wary of him fooling me.

I think my map vote will be one of those... unless I decide to be more secretive about it, which may be a good decision seeing as the map disappears if the owner is killed (I'm assuming based on the description of items in the rules, and because the votes are private, that the recipient will not be publicly announced)

I agree that the way LC nominated himself (in particular saying that giving it to more obvious townies would be painting targets on their back) seemed town, but not townie enough compared to Strawhenge/Fred/Silver Lantern/JJJ reads, which are currently the townreads I'm willing to put a tiny ounce of confidence in.

Silver Lantern wrote:
Quin wrote:I mistook poll votes for map votes. I apologise.
Great, now I just look like I got overly defensive for nothing. I bet that won't ping anyone.

Love this person.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I would prefer not to disclose all of the details of the map, because the mafia team might be able to find ways to turn it to their advantage. I will say though that Golden's guesses are at least reasonably close all things considered. Once I have had a few opportunities to utilize it myself and get acquainted with the effects it creates, I might be more inclined to talk about it. We'll see.

JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: I don't understand the progression from ONE to TWO to THREE. I poked Sorsha about her girls-only map promotion to determine whether/how much she cared about the recipient of the map being a trustworthy civilian (instead of merely a female). She told me that she did care. So I then extracted, via the transitive property, the implied reads that she had not overtly stated:

1. Sorsha wants a female to get the map.
2. Sorsha wants a civilian to get the map.
Thus
Conclusion: Sorsha believes the females are civilians.

Beyond those specifics, squeezing reads out of people is what I do and I know you've seen that before many times. You look fake right now. I rescind my town read.

You're missing the possibility that Sorsha doesn't believe her "females should get maps!" joke will gain much traction, which seems like the likeliest possibility to me.

Silver Lantern wrote:Hi everyone. Apologies for dumb questions ahead of time, I will be asking them all game and for games to come too.

DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP, I REPEAT, DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP.

Alright, now that I got the reverse psychology argument out of the way, should we try to coordinate the poll votes, or would that be against the spirit of the game? And would there be a benefit in doing so? I am guessing not much aside from pissing off the mod.

You guys call the mod the host here from what I gather, right?

What is BTSC?

What is Civ or Civilian? Is that like a regular townie?

I skimread Soneji voting this slot and now find myself wondering why.

Vote: Soneji

being able to change my vote continues to feel wonderful.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm open to other map requests, but I want to know how y'all intend to forge a civilian victory in this game if you are entrusted with it.

How is responding to the question "how will you forge a civilian victory in this game?" ever indicative of alignment? It seems to me that the most important factor of these items are getting them into town hands, no?

Quin wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Quin wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm open to other map requests, but I want to know how y'all intend to forge a civilian victory in this game if you are entrusted with it.
I'll lead lynches on the unanimous civ-reads and make a fool of myself.
Town read.
If that's what it takes for you to give me the map.

That being said, I seem to be townreading Quin for an exchange sparked by the "Civilian Victory" comment so egg on my face.

Golden wrote:
nutella wrote:Oh boy a fresh hot new game!

The map thing kinda reminds me of selecting prefects, in that it kinda feels almost like some kind of popularity/trust contest between the enthusiastic players who nominate themselves, and it feels dangerous to put that trust in someone who asks for it but... idk, anyone who played that game should remember that whole can of worms. But it would be best to eventually form some kind of consensus, we just have to hope we don't pick the wrong nominee.

As for the poll I don't know what the context or consequences may be but I think scientist is the coolest out of those
The more I think about it, the more I think people should just go with their gut and not declare it. It does potentially put a target on a person's back.

Also, I don't remember what game the prefect thing was now, and what actually happened with that?

I'm assuming in this game there will be more items (based on the way the PM was written) and so there will be opportunities to spread them out a bit, hopefully.

I can't foresee a situation where "this player has an item" is a reason for me to nightkill them as scum over "this person is a threat to my team" and if the scumteam has a different approach then I don't think there is a very good chance of us losing this game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I like nutella and Strawhenge already.

I can see a case for Strawhenge (and probably agree now that I think about it), but why nutella?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Fredwood wrote:It's my first game, I deserve a map. It was rather difficult to sign up and meet new people.
Fredwood's four posts are only marginally relevant, but I still react positively. This in particular, where he calls for the map, pleases me considering the personality he conveyed in the sign-up thread:

Fredwood wrote:Thanks. Jack and Silver are the only two names I recognize been competing with them from anywhere from 5 to 10 years. I'm not a proper representation of the talent pool, I'm not very good (false humility), going to have to find a way to figure out how games are played here.
If there's any truth to the highlighted portion, I'd anticipate a civilian Fredwood would be a lot more comfortable doing that right off the bat than a mafioso Fredwood in this foreign environment. This read can be qualified with a little insight from those people who have played with Fredwood before -- please tell me what you think of this perspective.

Second post reinforces my townread there.

Quin wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:Changeable votes?
I like this game already!

Vote: Golden
hey

Hi!

Fredwood wrote:It's my first game, I deserve a map. It was rather difficult to sign up and meet new people.

I like Fredwood throwing his name already; probably not a significant tell unless he's super inexperienced but the way it happened seemed relaxed enough.

Changeable votes?
I like this game already!

Vote: Golden

Scientists are pretty cool, but I'd rather be rich than smart. Unfortunately...

"King of Fuck Mountain" - townreading Jay via Golden.

The Syndicate

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