The Syndicate

Oh, well that's OK, I just did not want to compete with you on Dr Who. Non Who, I am OK with that

I went with Non Dr Who cause I don't want to compete with the hosts.

And interesting~ he was recruited. it does not say by whom, though. I am going to guess the Daleks, because i tend to believe in the Snowy Lynch/Saving Made theory.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:The dichotomy of the votes being 6-6-2-1-1 this late in the lynch makes me wonder if the two main contenders are either baddies on opposing teams, or if one is baddie and one is civ (if I had to guess here, MM as bad and Epig 2.0 as civ).

Guess we'll see.

On the one hand, I want to live. On the other, I like seeing people look foolish. It's kind of win-win for me.

If you are a civvie, for god's sake, save yourself.

Now, gotta go for real, BBL folks.

Epi doesn't believe in "playing like a civvie". This is the only thing he's said in this game that has given me pause since he replaced back in. But it isn't enough to change my mind, I will risk looking foolish~ I do it with class & style

I think "Dalek" or "Cyberman" would be uncheckable, I think "robot" or "cyborg" (which would be more accurate ) would not be, but that is my opinion.

And the reason i made a big deal out of it is that Epig seemed to be being evasive . Evasion is something baddies do. zeek probably should not have asked him to say that, but he did ask. So had he just answered it as asked, none of this would have been an issue.

Rox has made some good points about Epi 2.0, but for me, the evasion, the attempt to tell us he did what he did not do, not just once, but twice, leads me think he has something to hide.

I went and found it. In quotation marks. Traditionally, things in quotation marks are not checkable. I think that is a very carefully written post, and many questions were asked of the host. He did not actually say it, he discussed it, hence the use of quotation marks.

Also read his "giant analysis" post, where he basically breaks down why a bunch of people are suspicious, then says HE personally does not think they are suspicious, except for one person. The person EVERYONE thinks is suspiscious.

I also read a remark where he said that he said he didn't hunt baddies, he lynched them. thats where I stopped reading

In any case, here is where he made the robot remark:

Epignosis says~ When I made my statement, I noted that it's difficult to find a statement you're allowed to check. Some hosts do not allow "I am not a baddie" to be checked, for example. Furthermore, I have not seen a single minute of Dr. Who. I know that in my previous incarnation, I was a robotic canine. No way in hell was I about to research each of the characters to see if they were androids or some other non-biological entity. And are Daleks robots? I don't know. Three of them look like robots, but the Dalek Sec sure as hell doesn't. Is the Dalek Sec what those things look like underneath their armor? "I am not a robot" is a flawed statement from my perspective. Therefore, I crafted what I considered to be the most comprehensive sentence. In retrospect, I could have used a different verb tense in my statement to provide it the airtight nature Long Con was looking for, but I didn't. Sorry.

Um, the Cybermen are clearly robots, and I think most people are thinking you are a cyber kinda guy.

Heres the link to the whole post: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 074#p90074

This post along with the fabulous analysis that yielded the name of Metalmarsh, lol, leads me think it is all bullshit. I am actually glad I read his posts, they convinced me I was right about him in the first place. Going with the gut this time. Also if he flips cyber, got a big eye for Juliets.

*Votes Epignosis*

Although I think Metalmarsh would be OK as well. I think he is a Dalek.

juliets wrote:I liked you and SVS better as red MP. It really stands out.

Purple is a HUGE improvement for the mods.

I requested the teal


And yes, I am annoying

thellama73 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
On it. Figured I would make an official proposal if I liked what I found, but you and Logan ninja'd me before I could even decide whether I thought it was worth proposing.

So when do I get a title? You should get on that and give me something funny/creative. You slacker. :P

I'm not changing titles, only colors.

Only I get a creative title. :P Also, I have decided that I prefer the purple to the old color. Celebrations all round.

Metalmarsh has a creative title, too :P

Also anyone notice how MM has stopped posting the poll every 10 minutes? Or posting anything at all?

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I am going to vote for Epignosis now~ I might change it to Metalmarsh, but for now, it is Epi. Gee, the insanified zeek was around for two more whole hours. He probable did not want to bring it up again during the night cause he was afraid he'd be killed, poor bastard

And I agree, this use of the LD DOES suck, but again, the cat is out of the bag. We don't like it, but it is what it is. You can say all these noble things, but I do think that you are not willing to say you are not a robot because you are one. In this life.

I am not a robot. Five easy words to type. And an LD can detect a sentence said at any time, not just at night. He detects at night, but the statement can be made any time.

I actually did say it, but you don't read my posts.

tl;dr

Good thing Juliets pointed it out

I can move to MM for now then~ I have thought he was bad forever. I might move it back, maybe I won't. Where are you looking to vote? Maybe I should read your posts

I am going to vote for Epignosis now~ I might change it to Metalmarsh, but for now, it is Epi. Gee, the insanified zeek was around for two more whole hours. He probable did not want to bring it up again during the night cause he was afraid he'd be killed, poor bastard

And I agree, this use of the LD DOES suck, but again, the cat is out of the bag. We don't like it, but it is what it is. You can say all these noble things, but I do think that you are not willing to say you are not a robot because you are one. In this life.

I am not a robot. Five easy words to type. And an LD can detect a sentence said at any time, not just at night. He detects at night, but the statement can be made any time.

MP, I think the wording is important. I think insanified zeek asked Epi a very specific thing, Epi evaded it, then zeek died. Now Epi is trying to say that what he said and what zeek requested are the same thing, but they are not.

I am working on the assumption that I will vote for either MM, whom I have suspected for a while, or for Epi, because I don't see the reason why he just can't do what zeek asked.

On my way out the door to a bris bbl

LOL, that last sentence was supposed to be in the paragraph, right after:

And he said it in an in your face, how dare you question me, kind of way, when it would have been so easy for him to just say "I am not a robot".

But I added other stuff and forgot to preview

Roxy wrote:SVS - He could have been trying to save Made - I mean that whole lynch was wierd right around deadline. I do find it odd he wanted MP to vote the same - remember that Snow lynch? He could be a Dalek sucking up to MP so he could say he wasn't the only one who voted that way.

Could you see yourself voting for epi if not then whom?

Linky juliets will read ialb

I pretty clearly felt Epi 1.0 was a civ, even before he was revealed as such. Epi 2.0, I don't feel that as clearly. I wish the whole "say you're not a robot" thing was not even an issue~ it is one of the reasons why I am even less of a fan of LDs than I am of role checkers. But like I said, once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put him back in there. As Juliets says, this situation could be easily dispensed with, and the fact that he won't do so is troubling. I would consider a vote for him, not so much because he made the statement he did make, or becasue he will not make the one asked of him. The main thing that bothers me is the way he is trying to say he did actually do what was asked, wehn he did not do so. And he said it in an in your face, how dare you question me, kind of way, when it would have been so easy for him to just say "I am not a robot". I think he was trying to put an end to that topic of discussion. Which would tie in with the Cybermen killing zeek. It would be expected that when uninsanified, zeek might say to Epi, "Hey, Epi. Not being on a team with a rolechecker =/= 'I am not a robot'~ could you clear that up for me?". So they potentially killed him hoping that would go away.

I could see other possibilities, but this one seems likely. But I still want to do some reading, and keep an open mind. The LORB knows my instincts have not been the best this game.

It is easy for me to say that, becasue~ I am not a robot.

What is your opinon on Metalmarsh?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm curious what S~V~S and LC (or anyone else, I suppose) think of BR this game.

I have thought about it, and I can't ever recall baddie BR take a leading role. I do not think I am seeing bad BR.

I have been thinking MM was bad since the Snowy lynch; my thoughts on that lynch are a bit less clear to me than they were previously, though. If anything, I thought Dana the most suspicious of the group, now several are vouching for her. And as you said, MP, not sure you or any other bad team would have been so obvious. So I am going to reread MM, and the cases against him.

I have to admit I am having a hard time getting my head into this game with all the vouching and cross vouching I am seeing, with people saying they trust people with no real reason given or implied. This is screwing me up because the people they are saying they trust, like Dana & Daisy pre-death, look/ed very suspicious to me. So I am doubting my gut, but I really don't know WHY. I flip flop all over the place on you, MP. I trusted you early, and then even more due to the Alzarius vote although you denied info (which tbh is what I would have done had not zeek come out and admitted it himself), but then you say some stuff that gets me all and then you say other stuff that makes me think I am being paranoid about you. Plus Epi trying to evade the insanified dead guys question while trying to push the notion that he did not evade it~ just Epi being "i am what I am", or Epi being slick? Either is possible.

And yeah, comma splices.

First Rule of Insanification Club and all that.

Bye Daisy, I have no clue if you were good or bad. You just FELT bad to me, but so many people seemed to think otherwise. I reread you and tried to see what they saw, but I missed it.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Epi, zeek did not ask if you were a role checker. He asked you to say you were not a robot. So you did not answer swiftly since you still have not answered at all.

What I said was more than enough to clear me from either team. You don't have to like it. I didn't realize Mafia was about making people say what you want them to say.

S~V~S wrote:Aren't "swiftly" & "willingly" adverbs?

Yes.

No, I don't have to like it. But you DO have to stop saying you answered the question posed to you because you did not do so. You answered *a* question; you did not answer zeeks question. And the distinction is an important one, especially since the Cybermen are the ones who killed zeek.

Aren't "swiftly" & "willingly" adverbs?

Epi, zeek did not ask if you were a role checker. He asked you to say you were not a robot. So you did not answer swiftly since you still have not answered at all.

DFaraday wrote:I don't know why people make such a big deal out of lie detector roles. Even if someone lies and the LD finds out, it's not like the LD can tell anyone, they'd have to try building a case like anyone else would.

Having said that, it is a bit odd to me that Epi seemed to go to great lengths not to say the thing everyone kept asking him to say.

And it can be hard getting info to the thread without being dumpy~ in one game, I want to say Muppets, at TP, I was the LD, and no matter how hard I pushed, people did not really buy it without a good thread based case. And trying hard puts a big old target right over your heart. I know when I am bad, I look for the blocker & ninja first unless there is an LD or a role checker, to try to get rid of them. It's a hard role to have.

The main value of it, I think, is the fear factor it induces in that baddies are afraid to make bold statements.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:What he asked you to do, though, was say you were not a robot. Not to discuss the composition of your team. Even asking you to say that may be considered "forced", though, so:

@Hosties avec le mosties~ is asking someone to use a specific phrase considered a forced statement? Like saying to someone:

Player X Wrote: Hey TrickyDick, can you just say, "I am not a crook"?

Would "I am not a crook" be forced, or wold it be checkable? Are team names checkable? Like would "I am not a robot" be checkable?

A robot? That's not a helpful thing to say at all. Are there not good robots? I was a robot dog before.

I said what I considered to be the most comprehensive thing I could say that any host would deem checkable.

Helpful or not, it was the question he asked, and the statement he asked you to make. And since the robot dog is dead, all the remaining robots are baddies, right? Not saying it was helpful or not, just reminding you that the answer you gave was not the answer the soon to be dead insanified person asked for. So you can lighten up on the, "I answered HERE. Remember when I answered HERE? Right HERE?

I am kinda hoping that would be a forced statement, tbh. I don't disagree with Chris on this point, but once the cat was let out of the bag you really can't put it back in.

What he asked you to do, though, was say you were not a robot. Not to discuss the composition of your team. Even asking you to say that may be considered "forced", though, so:

@Hosties avec le mosties~ is asking someone to use a specific phrase considered a forced statement? Like saying to someone:

Player X Wrote: Hey TrickyDick, can you just say, "I am not a crook"?

Would "I am not a crook" be forced, or wold it be checkable? Are team names checkable? Like would "I am not a robot" be checkable?

I went with the Prison Planet, Stormcage. Prison Planets suck, but River Song escaping every other day, then sauntering back, was awesome.

Yay for getting a baddie, and on the projected team, too.

Nice job, guys.

Like I said, they may both be bad. But my gut "feels" it more with MP. And you know I trust my gut in a one or the other situation.

nijuukyugou wrote:At the risk of being looked at as one of the last people to vote on a huuuuuuuuuge list of votes for Enrique...I'm going to vote Enrique. I think good points are made about him. Should I re-hash what's already been said? (Odd save-like voting by Made, behavior I mentioned in the first vote, etc.) My suspicion of him didn't disappear since I originally voted him long ago; Made just happened to look more suspicious and therefore, more deserving of my lynch vote. But now that he's gone...here we are. This lynch should be telling.

On another note of discussion besides Enrique vs. MP, why are people so confident that Dana is good? This is a genuine question (not an accusation), but the more I've been playing this game and reading through, the more she's catching my eye. Was there something that I missed that would point to her definite Civvie-ness? Because I didn't catch that, and she's been dropping off these last few days with her buddies mentioned...I also see others sharing my suspicion, mind you, but I see adamant defense of her, too, which has me more than a little curious.

I would like to know that too, actually, re Dana.

Linki @Dom, I am not an any "lynch train". I have been saying for days that the Made Lynch #1, the one where Snow Dog was lynched, it looked like the last 3 Snow voters, MP, Dana & MM could have been saving Made. I mainly singled out Dana due to her reaction to Snowys return. I was ready to go gung ho against them, but then Snowy turned around and voted...Enrique

I wanted to avenge him, and the people who voted for him while, as it appeared to me, saving Made, were at the top of my list, but apparently not the top of Snowys list. Of the people getting votes today, I think MP was part of a save attempt on Made, and I think Mades self vote was calculated to make Enrique look bad.

juliets wrote:SVS, what makes you change your mind from Enrique to MP? Also, does this mean you think Enrique is civ?

No not necessarily, but I am more sure I think MP is bad. I have seen innocent stuff twisted into things it isn't. If Enrique is bad, he is being lynched with my vote or without it. But I don't want to vote for someone mainly because i will take shit if I don't. I just suspect MP more.

I suspected Daisy, but apparently she gave a role hint or something of that nature? I suspected Dana, and now Daisy is vouching for Dana. I have no reason to distrust BR, and she is basically vouching for Epi. Initially, I was not sure MP was bad, but after Mades save (Made lynch #1) I thought MP was bad. So I have to trust my gut to some point.

And I don't think Enrique is acting cornered. It is a while since I have played with him, but iirc, he tended to fade out, not defend to the end, when lynched bad, and the opposite when lynched civ. Also I think Made has his whole post lynch schtick predetermined, and it is always possible the vote was part of his long game to divert attention from the people who DID appear to be saving him.

This whole thing is Mega Wifom deluxe, and all I can say is I love Strax for dealing with Made so this can be put to rest at least somewhat sensibly.

Chris wrote:LOL @ nobody thinks that MP engineered his "break down" and subsequent request to be lynched as reverse psychology.

Fuck it, I'm leaving my vote right where it is...

I think I am gonna join you tbh.

Long Con wrote:Which declaration? You as Civ, or Enrique as baddie?

I believe you are Civ because I think you are being honest with your latest posts. I don't think this is a grand deception you're pulling, I think your words are the real deal.

I think Enrique is bad mainly because of the way Made self-voted to keep Enrique safe from vote-manip-revealing. Secondarily because there's some good arguments out there for his baddiness otherwise. There are people who are dead-set on him being a baddie, and that passion does affect my perception of him. If he turns up Civ, then those people will rise considerably on my suspicion list.

Although I should say that Roxy's viewpoint on Epig being a Cyber-dude with a role-checker friend quite intriguing, and deserves some analysis. I think there's an unspoken level of "cred" that one gets when they die as a Civvie and return to the game, as though they are likely to be Civvie again, but that point of view is dangerous.

You make sense. That vote....

I am voting Enrique for now, it may change, but then, it might not.

But that could be what he's counting on.

I am most interested in lynching Dana or MM (remember all the eyeballs he garnered at the end of Snowy 1.0s lynch? Were those defused by Made vs Enrique?). As re Enrique, I have read the source material, Enrique himself, over & over, and I am not totally seeing it. So not sure there. Alot of the case there has been built on assumptions, that he was defending or not defending, or being defended by, someone not proven bad, since we haven't lynched any freaking baddies yet and don't know for a fact who is bad. Only the baddies may know that for a fact, so I understand Roxys point, although Epi did gun for Enrique while still a known civ, so

I also have not forgotten Daisy. I was all about BOTD, buth then this:

Spacedaisy wrote:This is bad plan. Because I doubt the vote tally between the tied parties will be revealed. It would basically out someone. So let's say it is a Civ civ tie or a baddie baddie tie. They will likely randomly choose one, or both with die. So we will have no way to know if someone died because they had more votes, or because they were the randomly selected loser of the two. And if it is not a tie, we won't know the difference from if it were. Aiming for a tie seems like a great way to hand it to the baddies if you ask me.

So how did she vote?

Spacedaisy wrote:Running behind here, don't have a strong opinion on either one but I want to keep the votes close rather than spread, so I am casting my vote for Enrique. He is still down from Made by one, but whatever. I think either one being lynched coud be telling about some other player alignments.

To bring it closer to a tie? No one else seems to see what I see, and God knows I can get tunnelvision and be wrong, so I am not going to push this again. But if I am right I reserve the right to go, "Nyah Nyah"

But like I said, I am most likely to vote MM or Dana. Last lynch we had those extra civ penalty votes, this one we don't have to have 2 clear candidates. I plan to reread MM and Dana for connections with Enrique, Made and each other.

Wow, how cruel. Killing a guy right after he comes off of a night insanification You will be missed zeek. Bye Made, xox, but I think Strax did the right thing.

I hate lynching people who ask to be lynched.

Chris wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Made wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Two living people have less posts than Black Rock, Ninjajujube & Bass. Faraday, Elo, Hedge, Daisy & Sabie all have less posts than LC. Why did you pull those two names out of a hat, Made?

LC because some how this got so little flak...

What does this even mean?

Does it need to have meaning? All I'm seeing is any/every attempt to distract from what he tried to pull with yesterday's lynch...


LINKI @ Rico: So which should I pick?

No, it doesn't. It was a rhetorical question.

Made wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Two living people have less posts than Black Rock, Ninjajujube & Bass. Faraday, Elo, Hedge, Daisy & Sabie all have less posts than LC. Why did you pull those two names out of a hat, Made?

LC because some how this got so little flak...

What does this even mean?

Chris wrote:

zeek wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Actually, that does make more sense, since Enrique and Made are inevitably linked anyway.

...Made survives ...

MovingPictures07 wrote:And assuming this is true, which makes a lot of assumptions so I'm hesitant to declare it, but if Made is Dalek Emperor and Enrique is Cyber Controller, then we definitely had a baddie v. baddie on different teams dynamic going on yesterday, which might actually make some sense. But I suppose we'll find out.

Feels like gimlet reaching to make this fit now.

You're right zeek.

But MP has spent the entire game changing his tune.

Also, I highly doubt that Made is Jack Harkness. His story, in addition to sounding like complete bullshit, doesn't fit the actions of a civvie minded person.

This ∆∆

Black Rock, I am a civvie. And with Epi, I have a problem getting past his tone, even though I know he's putting it on as he is actually a nice guy. But you know me of old, I tend to react emotionally to tone, especially a tone of superiority, and I overreact. You have seen this in the past. I am trying to eliminate that element from my game.

Two living people have less posts than Black Rock, Ninjajujube & Bass. Faraday, Elo, Hedge, Daisy & Sabie all have less posts than LC. Why did you pull those two names out of a hat, Made?

Made wrote:
We, as a town, are going the wrong direction; so consider this a hostile take over.

There are a few things that really are fucking with me, that I figured now that i'm front and center might actually get addressed.
1. Why are we not at all concerned about Eloh's save, but care so deeply about Enri's
2. Why do we no longer care about the Azure voters?
3. Why do we all trust Epi?
4. Why have we allowed LC and Black Rock to avoid the radar almost completely?
5. Really tho, what's so confusing about my argument against Dom?
And perhaps the most illuminating
6. If you did, why did you choose to vote for me.

While it looked like one, I don't think day 3's lynch was a save. I honestly think suspicion surrounding it has more to do with the fact that everyone who voted just got echo tunneled hard.

Leave questions as well as answers to the above questions and i'll get back to y'all tomorrow

This actually made me lol, and in a good way. The way I felt after reading this was the closest I have ever actually come to experiencing WIFOM just as it was portrayed in the Princess Bride.

"Aha, Made's just saying that to protect Enrique since it is obvious that they're both bad."
"Aha, Made's just saying that to make us think he's protecting Enrique, so we will lynch Enrique next time rather than a Made teammate"
"Aha, Mades just saying that to make us think that he's trying to make us thank that he is protecting Enrique, and thereby, protecting Enrique".

Thanks for the lulz.

1~ I don't care deeply about Enriques save.
2~ I neither trust nor distrust Epi at this stage; I don't trust his gut. I dislike allowing one person to direct the thread, as well. But things worked out in such a way that a civvie was not lynched, so that is cool.
3~ I expect to see more of LC when Python wraps up. BR is always a low flier, regardless of affiliation. So far she has not done anything shady. Why pull those two out from the other low fliers?
4~ Your argument is not confusing, just not sure I buy it.
5~ I think you're bad.

Since each one needs at least one, and none of them sound good, I will go with Rexel.

Gotrees wrote:

Long Con wrote:I would think Made, if he were Emperor Dalek, would still not want to be lynched, and thus exposed as that role to the more suspicious of us. A save of him to keep his cover makes sense.

Good point. I suppose in that sense a save could still potentially make sense.

It makes lots of sense, actually.

No one ever said that was all there was, don't over simplify it. That was what Roxy said, when you tried to oversimplify what she said by asking if the only reason she was voting Made was that she did not trust Epi.

She said he was acting differently this game, and he is. He was a civvie in all his other games.

You are worried about civvie manips?

But again, this is why having a tight lynch is a good idea. If one person is 2 votes ahead and is still lynched, then we could project that the Head is one of the people that voted for them.

I have followed the decoding, I don't recall vote manips in the projected secrets. Did I miss those? And I guess the cyberman head is possible. Do we know how he finds his head?

But it will be more likely with the civs having that plus 1.

Other than Amy Pond, a civ, what vote manipulation are you talking about?

He could be bad. I said earlier, if they tie and only one is lynched, then they both are bad. I just feel a hell of a lot stronger about Made.

I have no real opinion on him. I don't read Epis posts.

Later.

Not as many as you do.