The Syndicate

nijuukyugou wrote:

S~V~S wrote: Do you have an opinion on Golden or MM? Any reason why you think they may be buddying up to you so hard?

I think Golden genuinely (and rightly ) believes I'm good and wants to keep me alive for the civ cause (therefore making him civ in my eyes), and I'm inclined to think MM is good after the last lynch because he was the only one who actually voted away from Neverwhere, and his reaction to being lynched without a case gave me major pause. These are gut feelings I have. My gut has been worrying me lately, especially in the wake of being so badly tricked in Guess Who, so my paranoid self tells me that they (or one of them) could certainly be "buddying up" to me to gain my support and will have played me like a fiddle. But I think they're defending me because they don't want a civ to die.

I keep saying I'm going to look back at DF and I still plan to. I agree that if the case is just blendiness, then I'm not gonna swing my vote that way. However, Golden's process of elimination with players that includes DF, along with vote patterns and this general blendiness, would be enough to get my vote. I want to look at him myself, however, and not just vote with the crowd, because that hasn't been working out so well. I feel like I've said that a lot lately.

I need to go food shopping for a cocktail party and hang out with my friend who's been having a hellish time at work lately, but I plan to be back before the poll ends. My thoughts on splints haven't changed, and I'm glad to see more support of that in the thread today. I'll put my vote there for now. I'm also glad to see discussion of lots of people! Until later.

Do you think it is possible that the baddies have a role check and knew Nev was not bad? Generally, that is one of the most awesome baddie moves, being all self righteous about not lynching the popular candidate and lo and behold, they're a civ. At this stage i am inclined to go botd with you. But I am not as sure on MM. So putting a vote there now to be sure i don't miss again, but this may change.

Golden wrote:My day today is a write off. The poll end time is 45 minutes before a deadline I've been working towards for the last several weeks, and I am unlikely to have spare time before then.

I was hoping for something more clear cut. It's not clear cut right now. This is what I don't like about changeable votes... I really can't control how people will move over the hours that I'm not here. Hopefully I'll find time to pop in again later.

In the mean time, I'm personally feeling very firm about DF being my preference.

Why do you think you should be controlling how people vote?

nijuukyugou wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Do you think that someone who has a gossip role should use it as a platform for hard role hinting?

Short answer: No, with a "depends" clause.

Long answer: It depends on one's definition of hard role hinting, and that would be difficult to determine to make everyone happy. The job of the role is to express to fellow civs who should and should not be under scrutiny and lynched, and that may include the gossiper his/herself. Listing names of who should go and who shouldn't go could be considered role-hinting, by process of elimination. I agree with Golden here - other roles allow for protection, blocking, and gathering information behind the scenes about fellow players, and civs will use them to protect themselves if they're pretty sure they'll be targeted. The gossip role must maintain a balance since it's much more public than the more behind-the-scenes roles, but using it to lead civs away from lynching a civ, including the gossiper, by allowing them to do their own guesswork without the gossiper specifically saying, "Hey look, it's me, [insert player name here], I'm the gossiper!" is valid to me.

Now that you mention it, I can see your perplexity - I think a lot of it stems from Golden's (and others) seeing it as black and white. Me, I like being in the gray area.

Golden wrote:Ninja, purple looks good on you.

And i have been thinking alot about this. Like you, for me it is areas of gray. Especially in a game where roles have descriptions like these:

The Phantom of the Opera – The Phantom of the Opera is there, inside my mind.

Starlight Express - Starlight express, answer me yes This has to be one of the stupidest musicals ever conceived. Starlight Express is so bad that it blocks one player each night.

Cats - Memory, all alone in the moonlight

How can anyone be so sure of what is and is not possible? But i am willing to back off of this (and this is not easy for me) becasue while I understand your explanation, I do not necessarily agree with your stance. I mean, there is a huge difference between the gossip saying "her" or "Player X" and saying me. Saying "Player X does not want to die" and saying "I don't want to die" are not at all the same thing for that role. And part of my issue is not only that I don't think YOU would say it, Ninja, I don't think Dom would allow it. That is kinda why I think someone other than you wrote it. But if you are saying that you think it would be an OK thing to do, I have to say, OK. I could be tunneling. But Dom allowing a gossip role to say "I" in that position does not seem like something he would allow. Waffle waffle waffle. I honestly don't know what i think, lol. Like I said, I am going to look at the case on others and let this backburner a bit in the slow cooker.

Do you have an opinion on Golden or MM? Any reason why you think they may be buddying up to you so hard?

That is very possible re which team can recruit. But I am still finding this whole thing hard to swallow. I am looking to brainstorm possibilities (admittedly almost impossible in a game with most roles basically secret).

I am not a fan of unequivocally ruling things out when all possibilities are necessarily unknown via vague/secret roles. I am also going to read up on what the case on Faraday is other than blendiness. If it is only blendiness, I won't be voting for him.

Going to bed, i will be back in the AM. I am sure MM will "No U" me, lol.

Sorry to come out of the clear blue with this, but I think what i think. I left the thread after the whole "Well it's obvious" thing since the thing that was obvious to me was that I did not think she would do that, and yet another exoneration in a game based on role hints/claims etc was too much for me. And I am still not sure I think she would. So i am theorizing ways to account for that post. The recruit thing was one way, but i am sure we could think of others. We're smart folk.

In any case, i should have spoke my mind rather than walked away. I like speaking my mind.

Linki, thanks Ninjajujube~ food for thought.

When i think of all the games i have played, "It's so obvious" seems ...too obvious, you know?

I know you think Ninja is a civvie. What is your opinion on Metalmarsh?

As i said, I may be tunneling a bit. But when that night post was made, then you came out saying, "well, ninja is off the table", and then MM chimed in with the same song. Like it was a given, a FACT. Look at the role descriptions; nothing is a FACT.

Linki~ you only are interested in catching baddies on one team?

I mean this whole thing is circumstantial, based on a gossip post, pretty much. And vague roles with no powers listed. I guess i am just not seeing this in terms of black & white as much as you are, Golden.

How do you know the team other than LC's did or did not have something similar? Like I said, i am having problems accepting this as something Ninja would do.

It's like this; I have a theory. It could be wrong, it's just a theory. But I was thinking that Ninja was a baddie, and maybe the other role was recruited. And the recruit said what they said without maybe clearing it with her first. Or something of that nature.

Because i very seriously doubt Ninja would use a role in that way. I just do. Unless she has different thoughts on that kind of thing that I *think* she has.

It is hard to be euphemistic about all of this, and it is normally not something I would do, but this can of worms was opened already by the people pointing out that she could not be bad, cause, hey look, it should be obvious.

Golden wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Using a power behind the scenes and role claiming are not the same.

I think no-one has ever suggested ninja has role claimed though.

But I do think she has used a power behind the scenes in a way that has me thinking she is civ.

She knows what i am talking about. And as I view it, using that power that way is tantamount to role claiming.

Do you think that someone who has a gossip role should use it as a platform for hard role hinting?

I want to hear from her; that might give me some understanding of this.

Using a power behind the scenes and role claiming are not the same.

I know she hates that crap; I am having issues believing she would do it. And iirc, MM said, when someone questioned why everyone was so sure Ninja was a civ said to them, "You're bad".

I may be tunneling or paranoid, but if there was one recruit, there could be more, and I don't get the eagerness to just drop the whole thing based on a role claim. Either that or perhaps there is some buddying going on if I am judging her incorrectly. Which is very possible.

Looking back, I am intrigued by the people backing Ninja up, and implying anyone who does not get on the hayride with them has to be bad. We had one recruit; perhaps another? I dunno, perhaps i am just tunneling. I am finding all the original case on her inexplicably negated by something I don't think she would do on her own to be hella confusing, and less than convincing.



I am gonna reread Epi. I was feeling kinda demoralized about this game, but this whole thing has me scratching my head a bit.

Well, if that is the case, I will be disappoint. The person in mind is one of the people I think of as being vehemently opposed to info or hints or role claims of any kind. So using that role in that fashion is something I would not expect of this individual, which was why i was somewhat resistant to the obviousness of it all. At first I thought that perhaps the Singer just really, really trusted that person quite a bit.

i did not think that the person believed to be the Singer would in fact blatantly role claim. So this added a bit to my *meh* attitude here. Sorry, I will get over myself & I am here to catch back up again.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I will respond as time allows. My weekend grew rather busy.

My life and month grew rather busy. Sorry for missing the last vote.

When I voted for Ninja during the last day, Golden said her role was "obvious". The role that came with that implication seems to have made a very heavy handed hint. But Ninja HATES hints and hinting etc. She generally takes a stand against that kind of thing. So not sure she would have DONE it, even in a more veiled way, when she does not like to even talk about it.

I am sorry i have been a fail; I thought I could handle this, but I should have stayed on break a few more weeks. Every time I think of coming here & debating & discussing, things I generally love, I am like "meh".

Anyhow, not long after Golden said that, MM was like, "Well, since one of my major suspects is off the table, I need to reconsider" or something to that effect. Golden makes one post, and now she's off the table? Was she ever REALLY even on your table, MM? I am very pleased Sloonei came back and resurrected (heh) this topic. I am curious about what Epi thinks about all of this considering his earlier Golden & Ninja sitting in a tree theory, and he quite possibly has weighed in on that, but I will not have time to read back on all that I have miissed the past several days. My apologies to all, I will try better. And my apologies especially to Ninja, I am voting for her again.

Welcome Daisy
Bye Scotty~ I am surprised that both teams wanted you dead so badly.
All of those trivia questions are really hard.

I am voting for Ninja now. How she flips (and I will be surprised if she flips anything other than bad) will tell me how I feel about Faraday amongst others. Doinf otherwise would be putting the cart before the horse. Scottys death has led me to do some rethinking about a few people that I had pretty firmly in my mental "civvie file", but I want to reread a bit before I say much about any of that.

What gives you the belief you can demand anything of anyone?

Faraday, I do not suspect you for your inherent Faraday-ness. Before last night, you had 40 posts, and of them 10 mention Ninja. I found it interesting and rather slippery reading. That is why I suspect you.

If it turns out that I am wrong about Ninja, my suspicion of you will pretty much evaporate, since it is mainly based on a bad Ninja.

If not Ninja, who would you have us look at? What alternative to Ninja in tomorrows lynch do you think you may vote for?

No, we don't know that. But I believe she is. So I want to lynch her tomorrow. If I am wrong, then being pro Ninja is not a problem. If I am right, then I mainly brought this up because I was asked at night who I suspect right now other than Ninja. i don't want to evade the question, but I don't like talking about suspicions at night, either, tbh.

DFaraday wrote:Ninja sounds very sincere, which could be excellent baddie acting, but I'm starting to think she may be civvie. I also think her points on Splints are good, as Splints has often voted late and in a bandwagony way. At the very least, this suggests that they're not teammates.

"Starting to think"?

Early on, you mentioned Ninja very mildly as a "ping". You mention her on and off, more or less remaining pinged by her, while still finding excuses for her. Then you pretty much come out as pro-Ninja after Sloonei died, and have remained that way, so not sure where "starting to think" is coming from, tbh.

@JJJ I think you asked me who else I am wary of? Well, Faraday is one. I am someone who is a fan of not talking much at night, old school, I know, but I am old :P

Can we please lynch Ninja now?

Also, waiting for carpool person in car, it just seems too convenient to me. Slooneis biggest suspect is Blooper, he dies at night. She lays low until her name cones back up, she shows up with the big sincerity, she falls off the radar again.

I just don't buy it.

It was a beautiful weekend, far too nice to stay in on the computer, Plus I had a fancy restaurant catered birthday for a one year old. I am guessing they will rent the Taj Mahal for her wedding, or maybe her sweet 16.

So sorry away so much; but also I mus say, I also avoided the thread somewhat. Since I came back, I read the whole thread, and have some opinions. But it seems to me that everyone already has their mind made up, and does not want to hear anything different. When I came it it was between Black Rock & Cobalt. I still have no idea why everyone thought Cobalt was suspicious. I read the thread, I read Cobalt in isolation, I reread him. I feel kinda like a voice in the wilderness, and that's not immensely fun, tbh.

I think Sloonei was 100% right. I think Ninjabloop is as bad as they come. I am not feeling the Golden connection that Epi posits, but I think Ninja made one really good post in defense, and the only thing that sets her defense apart from Black Rocks to me is tone. And having played a few games with Ninja, I will say that I admire her ability to keep it light and bantering at all times, civ or bad. Her tone is fairly level & light regardless. So if you remove tone from the equation (as was not done with Cobalt), her defense it not all that.

So I am going to vote for her.

DFaraday wrote:I think Scotty makes a good case on Bass, but I'd want to hear from Bass before deciding. For me it's between Bass and Cobalt, since I think Ninja acquitted herself fairly well.

Holy Cow, I had no idea you were playing! (Take that punctuation hater!!!)

Exactly what about her defense was so persuasive to you? The part where it was really similar to Black Rocks defense, or the part where it was pretty much the same as Black Rocks defense?

I don't think Cobalt is bad, and I have a huge Bass-shaped blindspot that makes everything he says sound sincere to me. It's a strange affliction.

I am going to vote for Ninjabloopy. I think she is an evil squid.

*cryptic not crypt.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:SVS, what do you think about Epignosis voting for inactiveDevin?

I think he has a reason, I just don't know what it is. Doing something crypt is and unexpected is what I have come to expect from Epi. I expect he will be unable to hide his light under a bushel for long, though.

S~V~S wrote:EBWOP:

I am not seeing the case on Cobalt. Several voted for Cobalt, and when Bass voted for him, almost everyone else left to vote (who did actually show up; if all the non voters had showed up, it would be a very different story) would have had to vote for Cobalt to save Black Rock, and I think it was pretty clear which way the wind was blowing pretty much the entire last half of the last day period, so I am not sure that I think he was doing that. Although my opinion on Bass is pretty much useless, so As for Nutella, I have a tendency to read her as bad; that said, some of the points made are good ones.

So of the four people taking heat, I am most unlikely to vote for Cobalt. I would be more likely to vote for Bass, but not as much as I would be to vote for Nutella. At this time, I would be most likely to vote for Ninjabloop. I don't have to vote now, though, I will be around tonight.

Fixed. "Him" was too confusing in context.

Canucklehead wrote:I actually think that was a pretty great defense by Ninjigglypuff.
But now I don't know who to vote for.

IM SO CONFLICTED

Actually it sounded very like Black Rocks defense. Her defense was that the case on her had her on both teams, therefore all of the cases were ridiculous. Bloop posted reasons why both possibilities would be incorrect, but then, so did Black Rock. It was a good defense, but not sure I find it all that compelling.

I am not MIA, Scotty. Cognizant FTW

I am not seeing the case on Cobalt. Several voted for Cobalt, and when Bass voted for him, almost everyone else left to vote (who did actually show up; if all the non voters had showed up, it would be a very different story) would have had to vote for him to save Black Rock, and I think it was pretty clear which way the wind was blowing pretty much the entire last half of the last day period, so I am not sure that I think he was doing that. Although my opinion on Bass is pretty much useless, so As for Nutella, I have a tendency to read her as bad; that said, some of the points made are good ones.

So of the four people taking heat, I am most unlikely to vote for Cobalt. I would be more likely to vote for Bass, but not as much as I would be to vote for Nutella. At this time, I would be most likely to vote for Ninjabloop. I don't have to vote now, though, I will be around tonight.

That sucks, sorry to see you go Timmer.

I am mostly caught up, just a few more people who were not really on the radar, plus another reread of Slooneis Ninjabloop case.

I can't imagine the circumstances that would allow for a rational punctuation fetish, but I will concede that almost anything is possible.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Is this a new "thing" you're trying out?

who what

I thought MM said that thing about the exclamation points, not you. I was like, "WTF? I never heard THAT before", but now I see it was you. You could have an irrational punctuation fetish for all I know, I have never played with you before.

Is this a new "thing" you're trying out?

I always want to trust BR. I read back on her & the cases on her last night, and the fact that there were aspects of both teams involved made me leery of a BR vote.

So kudos to Black Rock voters, but I am still OK with my vote.

JJJ, i nominate Ninja and Hedgeowl. Sloonei was hot and heavy for Ninja and TH was suspicious of Hedgie.

I just got home and am only moderately caught up. For now I am voting Ninja as that is the best case I have seen of what I have read. BR is my after dinner read, so that may change.

I don't think I will be voting for you, Golden. I think people talk about baddies faux NKing themselves more than it ever really happens. Plus I have been BTS with LC quite a bit over the years, and I don't ever recall him setting up fake scenes in the thread. It could be that that has changed, last game I played with him he totally pulled the wool on me, but staged fights does not seem like his thing, or yours either for that matter, but I don't have the experience there as much as I do with LC. Although I must say I am rather curious about why you keep back burnering Ninjabloop.

I reread Cobalt last night. He is abrasive, and (I want to keep saying "she" becasue of the avatar) I will discuss content later if need be, but gotta go to work soonish. Cobalt would be an easy lynch in his first game here (or one of the first, not sure if he played here in a game I did not play?) due to tone. We tend to like a more moderate, tone and I know quite a few people (and I am at the head of that line, or am jostling for position as first with Juliets) who read abrasive as baddie. I once heard Juliets say something like, "Civvies don't need to be rude" and I kind of feel that way too. I tried playing a recent game at another forum, and the tone (which was the norm for them) chased me right the fuck out of there, lol. Permanently. I am fairly sure Cobalt played that game. But that is how they play, it may not be the thing for me, but it IS the thing for them.

I am trying to rely a bit less on tone, especially with all the people from different cultures; it is a big part of what went wrong for SVS1.0.

My point is that I am worried we are going to lynch someone based on tone more than anything. That tone is normal for Cobalt, so I will try to ignore it and his shock schtick. So removing the hyperbole type comments (which is also something *this* crowd tends to read as baddie) I find him fairly middle of the road opinion wise; nothing that really raised my brow much. I am not seeing what is so alarming about him, tbh.

Linki @MM~ can you explain your thought process to me re Cobalt? Not links, words.

And off to work

Dom wrote:Player List:

Dead:
SVS - lynched Day 1 - Oscar Hammerstein II
Epignosis - killed Night 1
sig - Lynched Day 3 - Starlight Express
Long Con - Lynched Day 4 - Frank Wildhorn

Golden said FZ was NKed & G-Man lynched, and Sloonei just died today. I think that that is it.

As soon as I read the post with the quotes, I was like

Doh, you were politely asking too lolololol

Epignosis wrote:I would vote nijuu. She's probably bad. I'll tell anyone why if that person asks politely.

Why, I would love to hear your reasoning, Epi Could you please tell me about it?

Golden wrote:Epi, would you please tell me why you think ninja is bad.

You no longer think Slooneis theory is an important one?

Golden wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Nobody's taking to my ninja case, i worked so hard on that thing

I just don't think its a case for today, but it's still an important one.

Are you still feeling this way?

Golden wrote:Yeah, it's definitely been a clear part of Cobalt's style.

I could see myself shifting my vote to Black Rock, but for now I like it on Cobalt.

SVS, let me provide you with a brief synopsis. Bound to miss stuff, because it's just my own perspective but hopefully it helps you.

Mafia one had Sig and G-Man. They also tried and failed to kill Sloonei, and successfully killed epi 1.0 and FZ.

Mafia two had Long Con. They tried to kill me and bass and successfully killed sloonei. They also had a missing (possibly blocked) kill where we don't know the identity of the potential victim or even if a NK was sent in.

G-Man was caught because TGG subbed out after epi was allowed to sub back in. I have raised the question as to whether or not he was upset about epi subbing in because epi was on to one of his teammates, but this hasn't been resolved yet.

The people around currently who seem to have the most people suspicious of them are Cobalt, BR, Ninja and nutella, so they might be good places to form opinions to begin with.

TH didn't particularly have any heat that I can think of, so you probably have a bit of time to catch up.

Thanks, Golden. To your eyes, why was Sloonei so high profile? I am in for the night, and plan to start reading back some. I was going to start with suspects, but perhaps I will start with Sloonei.

OK, Thanks, I have not reread you, or come much into contact with your posts in what i have read. So sorry about that. It still feels hyperbole to me, but if it is the norm for you, then i read too much into it.

Nice to see someone Johnny on the spot to reply to a mention, though, isn't it.

FZ. wrote:Why is everyone replacing but me?

By the way, has anyone even heard from TH lately? I'm worried about him

Well, I volunteered

And PM's I sent TH about 10 days ago were picked up, but something I sent Friday has not been. I think he is either having internet issues (which I know he has had in the past) or maybe he just decided he needed a break and was more mysterious/mellow about it than I was, choosing to slip off rather than go Krakatoa in the thread, lol. Send him a PM telling him you miss him; I am sure he will appreciate it

Cobalt wrote:Okay, Metalmarsh, why the vote on me without any sort of consistent scum read on me? Do you not feel the cases against Black Rock or Nijuu are sufficient enough for a lynch vote? Especially considering BR got away by the skin of her teeth with the TB push last day phase, I think she or Nijuu would be optimal targets today.

Why do you think we should only be discussing one or two people?

I have read back on TH & his posts~ while I don't know yet that I agreed with everything he said, he seemed to be going back & forth with BR a bit the first few days, so I will put her & Ninjabloop at the top of my reading list. He also was up in Hedgeowls feathers, so her, too. I do have to say that I think everyone should be discussed, every day. Limiting it seems to me to be a way for people to slip by more easily. I have to go out in about 20 mins, but should be able to get some more catch up in.

Also, I gotta say, that calling someone "Scum Rock" seems kinda hyperbole to me. If this is the norm where you normally play, like if people call you "Scumbalt" if they think you're bad, I apologize. But juxtaposing someones name with "Scum" seems kinda over the top, a bit.

And again, gotta apologize for Day One. I just was rereading parts of that day when i was rereading TH, and it just made me cringe.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:LOL. Well, I got a role card, so I think I am where I am supposed to be.

I just got in from a long weekend and a long drive, and need to unpack, then the real estate lady is bringing someone at 5 & 7 to look at the house (landlord is selling ) SO a girl would appreciate a synopsis or two, although i hope to complete a reread within the next day or so.

Did TH post/vote at all? Is there anything I need to address right away?

TH actually posted more than I realized. But if you're not in position to look at links, that is just the link to his posts.

He has not posted and/or voted since early Day 2.

Thanks for the link, that would have been my starting point when I get back in tonight. When I am replacing in, I like to hear synopses since they will give me a starting point for deciding how i feel about people, hearing what has happened in the thread through the filter of individual opinions. I like to see where a reread meshes my opinions with the opinions of others, and see who I agree with and with whom I disagree.

I have to go clean (yay, driving 6 hours then cleaning to impress people so I will be forced to move that much sooner ) and may or may not be back until late this evening.

LOL. Well, I got a role card, so I think I am where I am supposed to be.

I just got in from a long weekend and a long drive, and need to unpack, then the real estate lady is bringing someone at 5 & 7 to look at the house (landlord is selling ) SO a girl would appreciate a synopsis or two, although i hope to complete a reread within the next day or so.

Did TH post/vote at all? Is there anything I need to address right away?

I am going to vote for myself. I said a lot of stupid stuff, and was rude and inappropriate to a friend. Sorry Epi.

Linki, um how? Can you make a long story long? I am gonna vote myself, but after I am lynched, I will be interested to see the backtracking.

The way I felt the other day, yes. I feel that you are often a bully, or felt that way when i said that. I overreacted, as I already said. But that is what i was thinking at the time I said that.

Golden wrote:Here is the one, SVS

Spoiler: show

Golden wrote:As for the rest of this post. It really makes me only feel worse about SVS. Responses in pink

S~V~S wrote:

Golden wrote:Epi just dropped the mic!

Now the case on SVS I sort of see. I could have used the word interesting in this thread, but the chances of me remembering whether I did or didn't is zero. Defending LC's use of the word while pointing out she did it herself I could definitely see as a potential move to make herself look better if LC flipped civ.

It's a little thing, but this is my first legitimate ping.

I did a search when Epi made a big deal of it, and three people had used it. I was one of them. When they came for me, to paraphrase that WW2 German pastor, there was no one left to speak for me. If Epi led a lynch on someone for use of a common word, I might be next.

Are you trying to suggest that you did not know you used the word interesting when you made that search? Then why did you make it? Isn't it a slightly odd thing to do to make a search of who used the word 'interesting'? Normally, if you disagreed with a word being suspicious, you would just say that - you wouldn't do a search. So we honest - did you remember you used it, or didn't you?

I did not think about it; I use it alot. I searched my posts and I have said it over 200 times in some 9,000 posts. I was surprised, though, that more people had not used it. It's a fairly common Day One word, to make the point that you are intrigued, but not like all over someones shit. I probably knew I used it, but like I said, I use it maybe more than I should.

Golden wrote:Also, are you eating bean dip?

This is fun. Epi reminds me of me when I think I've caught baddies on day zero.

And did you?

Not relevant. When I said I got civ vibes from epi, I also said I didn't agree with his case on LC. It's about tone and approach, and this looks different to the way I'm used to epi questioning people.

It was a relevant question to me. I want to know if you caught baddies when you were acting the way you say Epi is. You think someone asking you a question is irrelevant in a Mafia game?

It reminds me of Epi in almost every game I have ever played with him, good or bad, with his cryptic Day One (or Zero as the case may be) gambits & mind games. Yoni, as TGG told me it was called (repeatedly ) during Biblical.

You don't have to get civ vibes from epi - doesn't mean I can't.

Golden wrote:Hey, for the first time ever I'm getting civ vibes from Epi!

I don't agree with the case on LC, but I do agree that this game has not gotten in the least bit interesting (linki - sorry SVS!).

For me, the most interesting post this game is the one Cobalt posted, which Timmer quoted above. I think there are quite a number of players in this game who could point to games where they have played the super-civvie. Especially invoking the 'my most recent game' thing... and all in a comment where he purports not to care if we vote for him. Do I see potential civilian motives for posting it? Yes. It's not easy to have a voice in a place where you are not known, so making a cred grab isn't necessarily inherently suspicious.

But civilians don't usually go around flashing their supatown credentials.

Now I found this post interesting. What about him gave you that civ vibe? His back & forth with MP? His vaguely sneering tone? If you are getting a civvie vibe from him, what do you think of MP?

I have no read on MP. Nothing Epi did on MP had any relevance to me saying I got civ vibes from Epi, which given my timing on saying it (coming right after his case on LC) I think you know very well.
Well, Epi had spent a large part of Day Zero going back & forth with MP. So I wanted to know if you agreed with him.

I have not made my mind up on Epi, but I gotta say (and he knows it) that I loathe his fishing expeditions, the way he throws fake suspicions out early in the game to gauge reactions, then drops them after Day One.

We don't know epi is going to drop anything after day 1 since it's still day 0.

I was making an observation. How is this suspicious to you?

And I don't like Rainbow lists, I don't like ANY lists this early in the game, especially with 2 mafias. With one mafia, the baddies already know who is who, or more precisely, who is a civ. Two mafias complicates things, and lists naming who people trust help the baddies at this stage; I will be happy to list those I don't trust, but not those that I do. And if I am alive to make a list later in the game, it will be not be a rainbow. We had a discussion about Rainbow lists in the mod forum, which prompted me to find my new nifty grey rainbow avatar. And I will look askew at those who use list posting as a litmus test.

I can appreciate that perspective. I took the same one into economics, and I got grumpy with people for wanting me to reveal too much of my thinking too early. I'm certainly not going to be making rainbow lists at an early stage in this game. BUT I'll consider making them later, and I don't begrudge those who do for making them.

Ditto

If this is Day Zero Day One should be fabulous

All up - this post is exactly the kind of thing I expect from you if you are bad - you are throwing out generalisations to discredit epi, stuff like suggesting he will drop the suspicion after day 1. People who don't know epi, by the way, are picking up on this and it's making them think twice about epi. That's not necessarily a terrible thing, but certainly it's bad if people are only thinking you are bad because epi told them to...

Epi does that alot. Ask anyone who has played with him. He says stuff early to gauge reactions.

For me there are two separate things in play. One is the case on SVS. One is Epi's alignment. I don't think you are bad because I think epi is civ. I think you are bad because I think your own posts make you look that way.

So again, Golden, what are your concerns with me?

Linki, becasue YOU were the one attacking him.