The Syndicate

I loved this game, it was happy & dramafree~ this game has joined SOT, LOST:Rev, Recruitment 1, Survivor & Lilo & Stich Mafia in my Top favorites

Maybe Secret 2 as well and Daisys game at Hedville where we did song parodies, I LOVED that game

Linki~ that was me Squeeeeee~ thank you. You know i lov you to bits and your good opinion is important to me.

I figured Timmer had some sort of “sudden death” secret; I thought it was related to the fight. I thought maybe he could kill Tyler, or one of the recruits, in a fight. I kind of figured he thought I was bad, but could not prove it, so I had to walk a very thin line in our fight. When I didn’t die, I figured it had to be something else, but I knew he had to have something up his sleeve. I was pretty paranoid during the fight.

I spent the last few days playing “to” Timmer; if he was going to look at anyone in Project Mayhem, I wanted it to be me, not BR.

Canuck, it was totally strategy, once we found the cops, then the PI. the only non stratgy recruit I can think of was Bullz, and I asked to recruit him because he specifically asked to be recruited.

I wanted to kill more cops (ANARCHY!!) And recruit more civs , but recruits were pretty much a sure thing, kills weren't and the cops had to go.

Also MP, who was the impartial third party?

You were lynched as part of the day 5 bloodbath

Black Rock-Tyler

iirc, recruit order:

me, Russ, DH, LC, Daisy, Hedge, Unfurl, llama, Bullz

Keterman wrote:I was also right in that LC got bussed so yay me

LOL, I know what you mean now, but evertime I see that i think "kissed", which is soooo old fashioned, but it is what my Grandma used to say, she caught someone bussing.

Llama was a civvie until right after the LC lynch.

And no you don't, Timmer.

Mister Rearranger wrote:How I feel in this thread:



surrounded by baddies, yo

I had a Chinese Water Dragon, a huge carnivorous lizard. With his tail he was 6 feet long, and scared the crap out of everyone.

My cat killed him~ my husband was worried about the cat.

Linki, Hi BR

I like the part where they have sack races

Linki~ maybe this explains why I did not like fighting all that much lol

Too bad 12 is not an option

There are more than 10 of us, MP did not say one per number.

8 is a LOST number, my favorite LOST number <3

Um, it isn't like this is the first time MP has mass killed people. He killed like 9 in one day, I think, back at TP. You don't vote, you lose.

As the person who has made low posters his crusade, you more than anyone should get this. It isn't the hosts fault, it's the people who did not vote, etc.

I have no interest in fighting again, and I will not vote for anyone who does not want to fight.

That sucks Kyle

And Yay I am not dead And neither is Timmer

I see that Timmer voted without more posting~ I was looking forward to his last half of the alphabet. Hopefully he makes it back.


birdwithteeth11: He's present, spends a lot of time theorizing (which I do too, so I won't fault for that) often based on what MP would or would not do. I think i read him pretty well, and I am not voting for him today.

Black Rock: While i guess it is possible that she sought LC to recruit him, I would think she would have been more subtle than to go around saying, "Anyone seen LC?" if that was the case. I have been BTS with BR several times, and her policy as a civ is to say little, and as a baddie to say less. The fact that she openly looked for LC was actually what was making me look AWAY from her, not towards her. That could all be WIFoM though. Also, not sure if I have EVER seen her vote for LC? She might have, but I don't recall it. She could be recruited, though. Her usual quiet is being compounded by all of the fairs she is working. There is also the Bea death; it would be a very ballsy move for Tyler to make, it feels more like a frame to me, but I could be wrong.

Bullzeye: Although he is one of only 2 people who fit my theoretical criteria, he just does not "feel" bad to me. When Bullz is civ, he's a bit edgier, a little softer when he's bad, not unlike Typhoony for those that know him. I am seeing edgy Bullz.

Canucklehead: She is playing her standard "Wheeeeee" game here, which is pretty much the same bad or good. I think she's more formidable than she gives herself credit for being. There is that killing someone in a fight thing, though.

Hedgeowl: Hedge is like Canuck in that she is more formidable than people, or she herself, might think. I think she is someone who needs to be really "into" the game; she got a bit more vocal midway through the game, could be she was recruited, could be she became more engaged.

juliets: Early on, I was looking for Juliets in the towns. I kind of suspected her of being Tyler, but I read between a few lines, and would not vote for her.

Keterman: I would be astounded if Keterman was Tyler, or if he comes up recruited at games end, he was recruited before LCs lynch. Once LC was numerically lynched, while we were waiting for MPs cable guy, there is no reason why a baddie teammate of LCs would be taunting LCs main accuser and pointing the baddie finger at him. UNLESS it was to provoke just this reaction, and that would be the most Machiavellian thing I have ever seen in Mafia. On short acquaintance, Keterman does not strike me as that kind of player.

Kylemii: I like the case on him, Llama was spot on re LC. It would solidify my feelings about BR were Kyle to flip bad, based on the points Bea made. I tend to always think Kyle is being evasive & shifty, etc.

Mister Rearranger: Sorry, MR, but i am voting for you. Back when we had only one baddie dead, I said that if we got another, it might be easier to triangulate a position for Tyler. I think it has to be you or Bullz, and I just don't think it's Bullz. Timmers point about MRs vote for LC is a good one, BUT~ I still think being in the same place as both DH & LC days 1 & 2 are a smoking gun for me. Several people no showed, it could be an early distancing vote gone awry.

Russtifinko: He missed the vote in the LC lynch; so did Canuck & Hedge. I have been on teams where we lost someone in a lynch becasue a teammate or two did not show up in time to help with a save. Timmer made some good points here as well, and has voted for him today.

S~V~S:

Sorsha: I don't particularly think she is bad. While I don't know that I agree with her theory (although I still get the over both Canuck and Unfurl) about Tyler maybe being involved in deciding fights, I generally do not know Sorsha to actively theorize when she is bad. Quite the opposite. She has gone quiet, but I think that may be due to other reasons, not recruitment.

Spacedaisy: Some good points were made about Daisy, and while I understand her reasons for being low key, they were some good points. Early on, i had a good, open feel for her. Now, maybe not so much. There is also the Bea killing; it would be a very ballsy move for Tyler to make, it feels more like a frame to me, but I could be wrong (copy'n'paste from BR).

thellama73: It would be the worlds ickiest chatroom if Llama was on the baddie team; I know both him & LC well enough to quail at just the thought. Not even possible. On that day. If I were recruiting, I would recruit either him or Keterman ASAP. I still think they can kill or recruit on a given night, not both, so right now Llama is still A-OK in my book, tomorrow, maybe not.

timmer: I wish he had come back and finished his posts, I was curious about his thoughts. I also wished he had not forced me to fight when i did not want to, and i wish he had addressed why that was the case. No plans on voting for him, ultra helpful & involved.

unfurl: Her gameplay changed midgame. I would be surprised if someone recruited her becasue she specifically said she did not like being recruited, but then it is possible that is why someone might recruit her~ WIFoM Deluxe with cheese. Also it is concerning, like with Canuck, that she killed someone, maybe even more so than Canuck, since Canuck opponent did not show, but Unfurls did.

linki, lol.

LOL, NOW gonna cook, etc., bbl

The civs started out as "survive to the end", iirc from my role PM.

thellama73 wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote: -Recruiting stopped as soon as the threads merged, right?

Holy cow, I completely missed that. That is a really weird assumption to make, unless he knows more than he is telling. Good catch, S~V~S.

I think this is the second time you have said something like this this game, I may need to update my sig :P

OK, gonna cook/eat/blah blah, and return to do my "what I think of everyone list"

If I had to pick between MR & Bullz, I was leaning towards MR. Not just becasue of how Bullz is reading to me, but becasue he lost that fight on night 2 badly enough to be left behind. In starting my reread of MR, I see that he was also seriously injured. So not sure about that; do we even think Tyler can be seriously injured in a fight?

Mr R~ my unsolicited opinions in red:

Mister Rearranger wrote:Nobody is positing that our missing party, Kate, might be Tyler? Could be a role that dies once all of its recruits die, or even when the Narrator dies? She fits Timmer's theory as well as any other possibilities. Just one reason why I'm not solely focused on lynching Tyler today, as that may not even be possible. I don't remember when her status was changed to "vanished" though... :/

She was vanished when the threads merged~ i had been looking for her, JC & Bea, all friends whose insights I enjoy. I especially would have liked to hear what Kate had to say, as she is often spot on. When I found her very few posts, I found nothing there to alarm me.

Timmer, I was a bit unclear on why you thought SVS was a safe pick for fighting, but I think it makes sense now. I was only curious of what made you so sure that you wouldn't kill her in said fight. Mia culpa.

Um, elucidate, please? Is it becasue I talk a whole fucking lot??

Other issues that I haven't seen resolved or addressed:

-Unfurl's early killing of DP as a result of their fight

Why mention this killing, but not Canucks?

-Boomslang not being injured by Hedge

-Keterman not being injured by BR on Night 2; same with SE vs. FH; same with Timmer vs. Daisy Night 1

It is possible that they were very evenly matched? I don't specifically recall those fights.

-Recruiting stopped as soon as the threads merged, right? If I think Timmer's theory about Tyler holds water (that he could only recruit in the town he's residing in), that would make it a bit more difficult for him to recruit the police quickly, as Llama hypothesized. Not impossible, mind you, especially if they moved in a herd. But trickier if they split up.

Why do you think that? That recruiting stopped? I don't see how Tyler could win if recruiting suddenly stopped, assuming it is a standard cult. The win cons for Tyler are:

[quote]Wins when Project Mayhem is complete and when all unrecruited Policemen are dead.

That "complete" qualifier is probably just "outnumbers". I particularly like cult roles, and tyler seems a pretty straightforward cult leader. That plus no one defended LC, and if there were living unrecruited cops, they would have, I think.[/dead]

^That's a few things I've noticed and apologies if they've been addressed. Catching up on this game is a constant process what with how long I was absent.

Now I've got some further reading to do... >.>[/quote]

I am going to start with the people I feel are most likely to be Tyler based on proximity. I think DH was recruited Day 1 or Day 2, based on behavior. Day one most likely, since he led Day 2 with attacking Llama for the same thing he had done.

Of the people Alive here is where we were on Day One (it only really matters IMO where DH was, but knowing where YOU were can put it in context):

Penns Grove:

Timmer, Daisy, Canuck (FH), Unfurl.

New Castle: DAY ONE DH & LC BOTH HERE

Bullz, Kyle, MR, Russti

Delaware City:

SVS, BWT, BR

Wilmington:

Hedge, Ketterman, Sorsha, Llama

Day 2:

Wilmington: DH WUZ HERE, LC TOO

BWT, Bullz, MR, SVS, Sorsha, Llama, Timmer

DH spent that whole day trying to inflame people against Llama.

Interesting that LC & DH were together~ LC said he was going to move forward with me & DH, Nevin & Bullz to DC, but he missed the vote.

So Day One, Bullz, Kyle, MR, Russti, DH & LC were all together in a thread. DH, LC & Bullz moved on to Wilmington. Where half of the people currently alive were. BUT then DH moved forward, Bullz was seriously injured and did not move forward, and LC missed the vote.

I found it really interesting that LC & DH moved together the first night, and attempted to the second night. And that Bullz & MR did Night One, too; Night Two MR went elsewhere, but Bullz voted to stay with DH. I thought it an odd coincidence. DH was the one pushing the "lets move together" thing. I know someone brought this up before, but re baddie BTSC, what if they only had it when they were together? Similar to the theory that Tyler had to be in the thread with the person recruited, which was why DH wanted Aces with him (this is also not a new thought), to recruit him? The main reason I bring this up is that I had forgotten that LC was with DH those first few days.

Night 1:DharmaHelper (2), Long Con (3), Bullzeye (4), Mister Rearranger (5) 80%

Night 2: S~V~S (2), DharmaHelper (3), Nevinera (4), Bullzeye (7) 31%

I believe Bullz was hurt that night in a fight, and did not move forward. LC said he was going to vote for DC, but did not.

This would narrow my focus down to Bullz (poor guy he has been being hounded all game) and MR, who I don;t seem to recall getting any suspicion, but this has been a big game, I might have forgotten it. So I am going to be rereading them for a while.

I am glad I started doing this, it's interesting. Hopefully even if it does not lead to any conclusions for myself, maybe it will spur some discussion.

This is her vote post. At the time, this felt weak to me, but it is also very detailed and passionate. Especially the "don't vote like me" part (another reason i thought she was bad, lol. I had this post diced and sliced to ribbons to use it against Bea today )

bea wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Also, ugh. I al so far behind I was thinking we were still choosing two fighters. We are now in the lynch. I need to vote like now too. I am going to random a vote because I am obviously too out of the loop to adequately choose...

Kyle it is. *votes Kyle*

And - ok - I hate to do this to you - as I did read about your losing your staff and I KNOW what a week and such you've had because all of us know that you are newly engaged to our host and he is in the process of moving.

But - and this has gone the same for me and BDH and I'm sure Elo/Epi have felt it and I am sure LC/BR feel it all the time. You can't have it both ways.

You lived with the host.

You KNOW you had extended time. Lots of extended time. We should have completed a whole cycle by now.

You KNOW you missed LOTS. Like LOTS. Why when you were playing catch up - wouldn't you realize you were *that* far behind? Why wouldn't you look at the most recent stuff first - at the least, to know you were in a lynch phase? It's right there - in bold red at the top of the forum.

Put yourself in my shoes for just a minute. You come out when your name is called for being gone in the game. You spend LOTS of your catch up time defending someone you know IRL on something that has *ages* past EXCEPT for the fact that I brought up the point that Leo has also been missing this very long cycle and I was MORE than curious about her reaction to svs dropping her case then her OMGUS vote.

Leam has not been around during this very long day/night cycle too when she said she'd have time after her mom left during the weekend. It's now Wed morning. And the vote is closing and no Leam. No reaction. No nothing. But you found the time to defend her. Not catch up on the most recent info, but to look at old stuff and defend her.

Unless MR says something really convincing in linki - I'm voting Daisy.

LC - if you're looking for a place to truncate vote posts - anything above - I'm ok with - anything below and I will srrsly think you are baddie mcbadderson.

I DO NOT WANT OR EXPECT ANYONE ELSE TO VOTE THE SAME WAY. IN FACT I WILL LOOK ACTIVELY AGAINST PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW MY VOTE.

But Daisy - you are too good of a player to be doing these sorts of things. If the tables were turned your flairs would be up. I'm voting you because I'm putting you on notice. I *know* being busy. And I *know* wanting to help your love. But if you are too busy to play, replace. Watch the game on the sidelines with your love. (that's great fun btw.) I truely love you girl. I can't believe how much it actually hurts me to vote this way. But today, I feel it's the best placement of my vote. Step up sista.

It would be hard to miss this post, tbh. And I thought it an odd vote in light of Bea knowing Daisy IRL, and knowing what was up in her life at this time.

Llama also commented on Daisy at one point. Personally, I could go either way on Daisy. If you read back on most of her recent games, she is on the low poster side the last year or so~ mafia is a smaller part of her life than it used to be, I think. I tend to think Bea was NKed to set up Daisy, rather than to shut her up, especially since she was not the only person to wonder about Daisy. Bea mentioned a few other people; Keterman, BR~ she did a Q & A with BR as well.

I wanted to get my feelings about Beas' death out of the way before I look at who's left.

bea wrote:

S~V~S wrote:While I am not totally surprised by the big LC push, he has not had many mentions before the last day or so, and i had him pegged for a civ early on, but it is a recruiting game; things change. On the other hand I am not too totally surprised based on his super hostile reaction to me re Lea. That kind of raised a brow for me at the time he said it. But I gotta say, at this stage of the game, when you are more about defense than offense, it isn't a good sign.

I want to do some rereading of him in the Town threads, I will likely fly by vote from phone at work a bit later.

@Bea~ I am confused. You think LC is Baddie McBadderson, but you are putting a vote on someone to put them on notice? But your points on Lea going AWOL are good ones, even I kinda forgot about her. So now I need to revisit her, too, especially since LC defended her himself.

And Thanks re bad day & bus, but now I gotta go out in the rain & catch the *&*(@^$@ bus again~ and there is a flood watch lol but the bus is slow, plenty of reading time~ and I can vote from work.

nooo - not at all - I think LC is ALWAYS baddie mcbadderson. And I can see how in this game that could be used against me. IE - it really can't be THIS easy to lynch baddie LC can it???

And I forgot LC defended her - what really brought her back was a) i was expecting a catsup that was all "Oh - crap - I voted svs just as she dropped her case on me. my bad. that didn't happen and b) daisy's defense of her seems very well timed.

and c) daisy should know better. She's better than that. If I had two votes to vote for being better players than that - BR would get my other vote.

Does that make more sense? I'm in end of day and you are in start of day and I know we can cross wires here.
the double edge sword of the bus. I know it well. My day is made or broken by how quickly it takes me to hop the transfer. If I can get it direct, life is good. If I'm waiting a half hour my whole rest of my day is shite.

This exchange is where I began to think Bea was bad. I was sure that if LC flipped bad, so would Bea (this conversation also played into my Lea suspish from earlier in the game ). Over the course of the day, she made several more posts that led me in that direction. I thought this was a defense of a teammate (having been bad with her many times, and one of her more endearing qualities, as a player & as a person, is loyalty; she will defend a teammate even when it is a lost cause).

She would have been the worlds easiest lynch. Her posts are papered with things that are incredibly suspicious in context of LC flipping baddie, up to the "My eye is on Keterman" bit in her lynch reaction post. When Bea turned up NK, the first thing I did was look at page one to see if "powers", like redirects, had been added to the roles. That kill made zero sense to me.

So imo, it is one of two things. Either she hit the suspicion nail on the head, and they wanted to shut her up OR since she was very vocal in that regard (she talked more in that last day than pretty much any other day in this game) she was killed to frame those people for killing her.

I actually plan on doing something similar, Timmer~ I think we are at the stage where if we all lay out our thoughts, we can sort things out.

First off, Bye Bea~ that was a very surprising kill imo. I was suspicious of her, and had planned to focus on her today, I had even started pulling quotes. If my thought that they can kill or recruit, but not both, each night is correct, then they chose to kill her over increasing their numbers. So even though she is dead, I still plan on spending some time on her today, and on her thoughts.

As for Keterman, I will cover him now since he is not an option~ for me he would not be an option anyhow. I really doubt he would have gone into gloaty mode had he been LCs teammate, although it is possible they can recruit him in future. Since there was still some iffyness on him during the night, though, I doubt they would have recruited him last night, IF they can do both in one night.

I have morning chores and dog walks & food shopping but will be ready to settle in this afternoon for some analysis.

I am going to only vote for Timmer, since no one else has volunteered.

I spent the whole game not voting to force anyone, how ironic that when someone finally gets forced, it’s me 

But I said I do not want to

I said I will if I have no choice but I don't think its right to force me into it.

Then again, it's the weekend, I will have time to fight. I guess my last fight left me a bit disgruntled about fighting~ I thought I put up a pretty good fight, and still lost. I am at a Level One, I was told I did not drop level when I lost, I was barely injured.

If no one else volunteers, I will do it, I guess. But if someone else of a comparable level does volunteer, let them fight. I will check in from phone later at work, to vote for Timmer & whoever else.

I kind of feel like Kyle, I fought once and lost, I don't particularly want to fight again at this point. I would rather vote for someone who wants to fight.

Anyone else looking for a fight? I will vote Timmer & whoever wants to fight. At this point, I have suspected or had second thoughts about almost everyone alive; I don't wish to deviate from the volunteer format.

Oh I agree, I won't vote for someone who can't talk.

Linki~ I know, Lauren Bacalls death got somewhat lost in the Robin Williams suicide. She was an amazing class act, and a role model, telling us that strong women could be sexy; she was a sex symbol for women, not just for men. She was a real icon.

Keterman lost the fight~ will he even be on the poll? MP said he had to sit out.

Wow, bloodbath #2

I am kinda surprised at another mass killing, I sort of expected all the people who failed to be the only lynch options on the next poll. I know MP did that before, the lynch poll one day consisted of only people who had missed the vote~ I thought it was a good idea, narrowing the pool forces you to look at people you may not have looked at before. Although had that been the case, I would likely have voted for Lea after LC flipped bad, and would have been totally wrong.

So i guess this means the cops are gone? Becasue only 1.5 persons came to LCs defense, had he had a civvie BTS team, i would have expected a much bigger push from more directions, but from a baddie team....not so much.

And Llama, keep in mind that some civvies showed up to make their posting requirements too~ I totally understand Daisys reasons for being AWOL the three days she was gone. and I firmly believe rl trumps games. So I don;t think her showing up at the last minute, which would coincide with Alex being gone, says much about alignment. I skimmed her catch up posts, but did not read in depth. Beas weird vote makes me want to look for what she saw, as well. Bea has seemed pretty civ to me, but her unwillingness to vote for LC was odd for me.

I think this lynch more at be what we needed to gain some direction.

*LC*

While I am not totally surprised by the big LC push, he has not had many mentions before the last day or so, and i had him pegged for a civ early on, but it is a recruiting game; things change. On the other hand I am not too totally surprised based on his super hostile reaction to me re Lea. That kind of raised a brow for me at the time he said it. But I gotta say, at this stage of the game, when you are more about defense than offense, it isn't a good sign.

I want to do some rereading of him in the Town threads, I will likely fly by vote from phone at work a bit later.

@Bea~ I am confused. You think LC is Baddie McBadderson, but you are putting a vote on someone to put them on notice? But your points on Lea going AWOL are good ones, even I kinda forgot about her. So now I need to revisit her, too, especially since LC defended her himself.

And Thanks re bad day & bus, but now I gotta go out in the rain & catch the *&*(@^$@ bus again~ and there is a flood watch lol but the bus is slow, plenty of reading time~ and I can vote from work.

@Bullz, no that was Typhoony who wanted to recruit you over civvieness. for me it was when we were in that side chatroom, that rabbit only put a few people in? I was "Ethan Rom", and you were pretty much the only person who showed up to talk to me. I made up this crazy crap story about I don't even remember, expalining how the baddie did something, it's a long time ago but you not only bought it, you convinced other people who weren't even in that chatroom to buy it. Thats why i wanted to recruit you.

I had the day from hell, and the night is not much better~ I did finish reading back, and hve to think about some stuff. I am not sure how I feel about some people.

To be honest, i no longer think you are bad; I jsut think you WANT this theory to be true so much so that you are willing to overlook the potential issues with it.

You asked me about why i entertain the theories of others but not yours; this is not so, I am an equal opportunity theory hole-poker-inner. I just perhaps tend to be more polite with them since you are a "calling a spade a spade" afficionado.

Now i have to read other peoples posts, not just yours

Day 4 is not that quickly. Even if the police are not compromised, this leaves 3 other recruitement days (if your 1 per day theory is correct) before he may have changed course due to DH dying. Which would mean max 3 (days 5-7) non suspicious recruits. I understand your point, but DH not being killed until Night 4 means it does not hold water.

Plus my guess is not a recruit every night, but a kill OR a recruit. I have seen this before. It would explain the lack of kills.

thellama73 wrote:Also, SVS, I wish you would devote the same amount of energy to disputing the numerous, absolutely ridiculous theories of "who Tyler can recruit" based on nothing but wild guess from people like Timmer, Hedgeowl and Long Con.

It doesn't strike you as odd that they keep saying things like "well, let's assume that Tyler can only rercuit people whose name starts with J and who were born between April and June during a full moon on leap year"? And you thought I was making too many assumptions!

This is a silly thing to say, and disingenuous to say the least; no one has proposed anything even remotely like this. By making this comparison, you are trying to ridicule their theories, which, as you know, I tend to view as squashing discussion. Many theories have been rather plausible, even if you do not think so. I have seen a few people try to fit their theory to their suspect, which makes me discount it to some extent, though. I think Unfurl did that with Bullz (don't recall the theory) and I think Sorsha is doing it with unfurl/canuck and the "Tyler decides the fights" theory.

But theories are the bread & butter of mafia, especially in a game like this. Your theory is a good one, well thought out. I do think thought that the one known recruit does not fit it. I am willing to reconsider it when we get new info; but DH does NOT fit the "less suspicious people" demographic. Like ever.

thellama73 wrote:Also, SVS, I wish you would devote the same amount of energy to disputing the numerous, absolutely ridiculous theories of "who Tyler can recruit" based on nothing but wild guess from people like Timmer, Hedgeowl and Long Con.

It doesn't strike you as odd that they keep saying things like "well, let's assume that Tyler can only rercuit people whose name starts with J and who were born between April and June during a full moon on leap year"? And you thought I was making too many assumptions!

OK, I don't know what was said after this so excuse me if I discuss old neews, as it were, I started at my last post.

My problem with your theory is this; you are saying that, knowing the police will check his recruits, Tyler would recruit quiet people, or less suspicious people, in order to avoid losing them to the police. I totally get it, and it makes sense.

EXCEPT...and this is a but fat EXCEPT....the one person we know for sure that he DID recruit was DH. EVERYONE suspected DH, he was in everyones face, he was mega aggressive. And unless Tyler recruited him 2 seconds after his first post, he was acting that way when he was recruited. And Tyler potentially could have recruited up to three other people before DH dies, and before INH died.

Since I did misconstrue your quiet people intentions (I really, really thought you were chasing low posters) I backed off of thinking this was a baddie ploy.

But i really want to know how you would reconcile your theory with DH being recruited.

And again, if you addressed this, sorry, but it is easier for me to address the thread as I go along.

Rough day, tough crowd in that other game, lol, gonna get dinner & a glass of wine, and settle in for some reading

thellama73 wrote: Yes, I do think it is possible by now. I do not think it is possible by Night 2, which means that there are recruits that were recruited before the entire police force was compromised, which means that Tyler must have had to consider them at least a partial threat to his recruits at one point in time, which means that he would have recruited someone he did not think they would be likely to discover (assuming thta Tyler doesn't want his recruits to be discovered, which I admit is an assumption, but I think a fairly reasonable one to make.)

linki: I am not saying that at all. I am suggesting that we do the baddie hunting, by hunting for the people Tyler would be most likely to recruit. My argument does not hinge on the police killing baddies, it hinges on Tyler at one point believing that the police might kill baddies.

But that is based on YOUR idea of who he is likely to recruit; I never recruit civvie sounding people, becasue they have a harder time changing course and get caught easier. I have seen recruits get caught out after one post. I would be more likely to recruit people with a little suspicion. Not a lot, but a little.

Everyone is different. I get your point now, but we have to recall that he recruited DH during this time frame as well. He was killed Night 4, the night before INH, the cop, was killed. DH was no shrinking violet "quiet player" or non suspicious player, whatever you want to call it. So if you are correct about the nightly thing, Tyler could have recruited up to 3 other non violet players.

I am pushing back against this so much becasue I really hate the idea of lynching non suspicious players becasue of a theory I don't agree with, based on an assumption I believe to be flawed, I guess.

You are saying we should sit back and let THEM do the baddie hunting, while we lynch less suspicious people.

You honestly don;t see why that may look suspect?

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:But I am just concerned about how he seems to think the police are upstanding citizens with the civvies interests at heart.

I have to say, I am amazed at the amount of pushback I am getting at this idea. The police explicitly exist to kill Tyler and his recruits. That is their sole purpose. I agree that we need to take seriously the idea that some of them may have been recruited, but I don't see why suggesting that the police will do what their roles allow them to do (hunt baddies) is so controversial. It's like saying "Why are you assuming that the Serial Killer with a Last Man Standing win condition is trying to kill all of us? That's a stretch! "

You don't think it possible that they all could have been compromised? This is the part I am having trouble with, tbh.

Your optimism is admirable, it is also suspicious. As it also lends credence to my theory that maybe the police are not actually on our side anymore.

Again, theories. Until we get another baddie, no one really knows.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Less suspicious people is not a euphemism for low posters. Low posters are often inactive and would not be beneficial to recruit. Less suspicious people are helpful, but not taking lynch votes.

SVS (and I can't believe I'm taking a side on an argument/discussion between the two of you again), but this is how I took Logan's meaning of the phrase. To me, "low posters" are certainly people who can be more or less suspicious depending on the circumstances. But "less suspicious people" are people who tend to fly under the radar through a variety of methods. While it could certainly be via not posting, I tend to find it's more often from appearing to be helpful, but trying to steer the thread in a certain direction or distracting us from what our main goal is.

I think Timmer, unfurl, and Long Con are 3 people worth going back and reading over. I plan on looking specifically at each of their theories and if any of them actually lead us to viable options to catch Tyler and his recruits. If any of them are not directly addressing those points, I will strongly consider voting for them today.

Linki

<3

I know right? But I am just concerned about how he seems to think the police are upstanding citizens with the civvies interests at hear. Let the police handle it, we can lynch the non suspicious people, since the police will take care of the suspicious ones

WTF??

I do agree that looking at things from a different perspective can't hurt. We had one day of basing suspicions on the thread after several non productive days of DH association. But suspecting people solely because they are not suspicious is not something that makes sense to me as it relates to a theory I don;t believe to be true.

Linki

thellama73 wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote: I would agree with a lot of what you say here, but you leave out that fact that DH we know was a recruit. He was the most vocal person in the game at the time along with you and drawing a lot of attention trying to form voting block alliances and become a powerful fighter. So whatever you might think is the best strategy i am not sure Tyler thinks the same. Plus the strategy can change anytime, like now that you have endorsed a specific recruitment method. There has been a lot of speculation about how Tyler recruits from fighters, winners, only in the early phase, etc. but here you say he recruits every night. Is this something you are assuming for the sake of your theory?

I assume he recruits every night because I have never seen a recruiter role work differently, not for the sake of my theory.

Yes, I pointed out before that the strategy can and will change once we expose it, but it cannot change the people already recruited. It will take time for new recruits to follow the new pattern.

I have actually seen different scenarios.

thellama73 wrote:I'm going to lay out my rationale for voting for less suspicious players (not "quiet players," as I have been misrepresented as saying) one more time, since no one seems able to grasp it.

Imagine you're Tyler. It's Night 1. You have a pool of 29 players to choose from to recruit. You also know that each night the police can check one player and if they learn he is a recruit, can kill him.

Player X is shouting and being unreasonable and everyone thinks he might be bad. Player Y is being helpful and friendly and everyone trusts him. Which one do think the police are more likely to check with the hope of killing a recruit? I would say, and I imagine Tyler would say, Player X.

It would therefore be suicide to recruit Player X, who would have a high probability of immediately dying when checked by the police. It would be smarter to recruit Player Y.

Repeat for Night 2, Night 3, Etc.

Now, to address SVS' point, suppose that Tyler inadvertently gets a policeman on one of the early nights. He then gains the advantage of their BTSC and will certainly start trying to recruit other policemen. The police are unlikely to search each other early in the game, so he is pretty safe, but it would still be wiser to recruit policemen who are not likely to get lynched soon before moving on to the others. If Tyler recruits a poiliceman and he is lynched the next day, we will all learn that the police have been compromised, and the police will start checking each other as suspects, undermining Tyler's double-agent strategy. It is better to maintain the subterfuge as long as possible, by starting with the police least likely to get themselves lynched, i.e. nice, helpful, unsuspicious ones.

Why am I the only one who sees that this makes sense?

Your whole theory is based on trustworthy policeman (and I apologize, i see it was not low posters per se, just really less suspicious people. I still disagree, but apologize for "Low Posters"). I still plan on suspecting more suspicious people.

It feels like you are trying to lull us into complacency (see, a big word!) re the police, and shift the focus away from more suspicious players and towards less suspicious players. I have played tons of recruiting games, and been a recruiter in several. I don't see that panning out.

Linki, All I ask is that you let me finish catching up before you accuse me, K? I bolded and larged up the apology

Ah the No U.

I do understand what words mean.

thellama73 wrote:Going back to address suspicions against me now.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: 2)Llama, for:

thellama73 wrote:

unfurl wrote: Quiet people are quiet, it always happend, but if we go lynching quiet people rather then suspects, we are really handing the game to Tyler

That's nonsense, because the police are an effective method for dealing with "suspects", which means Tyler will concentrate on recruiting "non-suspect" or, in other words, quiet people.

thellama73 wrote:
Okay, here's the thing (are you ready to hear the thing? Cause here it is): The police can search someone every night to see if they are bad and kill them if they are, right? There have been no police kills lately, so I am going to assume they have been failing at this job. Who would the police likely search? Presumably the people they find suspicios in the thread, the same people they re voting to lynch. This leads me to conlcude that someone who has taken a lot of votes (like Bullz, for example) is almoost certainly innocent (until Tyler reads this and immediately recruits Bullz.)

...because to me, those sound like the suppositions of somebody who is either Tyler or part of his inner circle. What makes you think Tyler is going to focus on recruiting "non-suspects" anyway?

Because I'm assuming Tyler is not an idiot.

If Tyler recruits someone who is getting a lot of attention, the police will check that person and kill them. No more recruit. Think it through, BWT.

So, if you think Tyler would be an idiot for behaving contrary to your theory, anyone else who thinks contrary to your theory would be an idiot as well? How do you think people will react to your theory with the word "idiot" out there? Maybe Tyler is an "idiot", or his definition of "idiot" is different than yours.

And still pushing the whole, "Ignore the suspicious people, the police will get them". The police haven't gotten anyone since DH, Llama.


Linki~ I have not caught up yet totally, I am reading your posts in isolation first, and searching them for keywords, then I will read todays posts in order. It's how I like to catch up when i reread an individual. So far though, it sounds like you have found a new euphemism for "low posters", "less suspicious people". So in future, I will say, "Less Suspicious People, friend of baddies everywhere "

So not sure what to think of this~ I could talk myself into "typical Llama"~ but your insistence on trusting the police concerns me.

I do not think i am misrepresenting you, but like i said, I have not finished reading. I am not sure what I think of you, but i also know I won't be voting anyone just becasue they're less suspicious people anytime soon. I intend on voting for "more suspicious people". Thats just how i roll

Linki @ Sorsha, huh. Mine clearly said something along the lines of what BWT said, neutral third party.

I see the thread has exploded today, I am loooking forward to catching up.

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote: Something just came up, a boat ride, can't say no, it's a beautiful day. I have to vote now. I am going to vote Llama; I did not love his "Trust the Police" rhetoric, and then his wide eyed "Oh I never thought of that" reply just pinged me more.

I think the idea thta the police may be compromised is a good one, Tyler can only recruit once a night. It would have taken a long time for him to get a majority of them on his team. In the mean time, he would have been recruiting people who are not getting a lot of suspicion or else the police would have been killing them.

How do you know how often tyler recruits~ did he tell you? Five cops, 1 dead, leaving 4~ it;s day 8, INH died Day 5........if you are right about once a day recruiting, maybe they killed INH becasue they knew he was a cop since they already had recruited a cop. It seems an amazing coincidence that out of appx 30 people they picked one of the cops to randomly kill.

I want to read what you said today, a quick roll throught tells me its quite a lot. But if its a theory totally based on supposition and/or "facts" like this one about how often Tyler recruits as a justification for lynching low posters, I might have to vote for you again. Low Posters, saviors of baddies everywhere

unfurl wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

unfurl wrote: I did not like thellama call what I was saying nonsense, it actually got it my nerves

Yeah, I get that a lot.

I dont think anyone likes to be call nonsense, I rather say I dont agree with what you are saying or I think you are wrong
But I had been having a treatment to grwoth a ticker skin to protect my nerves lol,
plus and everyone has a free will to have their opinion, even if I dont agree

It is my experience that Llama like to squash discussion when he's bad, and making people feel foolish over their ideas is one way to do that. I noted this when he said it to you, actually.

Also, @ Sorsha, look at the PM you got right after the "Who's Going to Fight" poll in which you were chosen ended. That PM told me how my fight would be decided. Not after, BEFORE. Maybe you missed it? My fight was a Level 1 vs Level 1 (I fought INH, maybe cops start at a higher level? Cause I thought I kicked his nameless ass )

In any case back soonish, dinnner, dog walk, phone a friend.

Linki, no not really, i think maybe he has already posted more in the speed game that started Saturday?