The Syndicate

I was surprised at no Shai Halud, he would have been an epic SK.

Epignosis wrote:I was hoping some more false information came into play. S~V~S lie detected bea's statement about having BTSC, but had she done so later, she would have been told that was a lie (since she gained it with Matt F). Had she lie detected a similar statement from Turnip Head early on, it would have come back true.

i always need to know about Bea right away. She said something that got my attention, so when she made a clear checkable statement, i went for it, and as soon as I got the PM< I went in and said I had reread her and she seemed legit to me. I totally dropped my suspicion of Eloh the same way, I checked her the TH lynch, and when i learned she had NOT voted for a member of her own faction, I just stopped discussing her, so it would not be as obvious.

Linki, yeah, sorry Matt. With MM flipping a baddie poisoner, that question made me incredibly paranoid.

Thank You Epi

And

to Feyd Sting

Maybe Epi WAS being nice and letting me win with the civs

You never know!

i will cross my fingers that that is the case.

MacDougall wrote:
S~V~S wrote:No, I admire how sure he is, truly. I can't do that.
Lol if you say so. I think you hate it.

Nah, i hate it when Epignosis does it; it's all about the tone.

No, I admire how sure he is, truly. I can't do that.

Golden is always sure. I admire his confidence.

OH! The game would be over if Luke was the last baddie, but why would Epi be replacing people if the game was over. yeah, good question.

Matt F wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Um the Dune film is on the TV here in a few minutes. How weird.
If Luke isn't the last Harkonnen, do you oppose the town lynching you next?

I might oppose that, though

I am no where near caught up. So since my vote won't count anyhow I am going to vote for old times sake and vote for Matt F.

Linki, yeah, i had a facepalm moment & figure that out.

Linki @ Eloh, no he PMed me.

Why do you say this, Golden?

Golden wrote:Mac's good, but despite his first 17 posts being on point

If we do not lynch luke tomorrow, we will not be lynching a harkonnen. Unless svs is wrong about bea. I'm going to have a second look at bea tomorrow.

House Atriedes

Mac
SVS
Matt
Golden
Draconus
Black Rock
Zebra 1.0

House Fremen

Zebra 2.0
FZ
bea
eloh

House emperor

Floyd
Ninja
Sorsha

House smuggler

Banana

House harkonnen

TH
MM
sig
luke

If I have anyone in the wrong house, they can feel free to call me out without telling me their real house. I'm not 100% certain.

I do not believe Bea to have btsc.

And I saw bad FZ at K Site. And read back on her since I was unsure. Buy it or don't buy it. It''s true.

As soon as the pol goes up i am voting FZ. If I am wrong, post game i will apologize to her. But I don't see how she can be civ.

Fine I'm wrong, then I guess. My vote won't have any bearing on the result.

And i has nothing to do with Golden. I don't trust FZ. Results can be falsified.

Can we lynch FZ now

ebwop, I sincerely hope you are NOT bad. Becasue if you are i will be hurt, actually.

1- I read it s i read it. Tangent votes always get my back up.

2- I recall this from a game at your home site more than anything.

FZ, don't call me rude.

Pretty much all you have done is convince me to vote for FZ.

You can't compare one self vote with an entire game of voting for civs and pushing suspicion at people who disagreed with her.

Walking away

Sorry no comparison. FZ was ready to lynch me for not helping her save sig.

Golden wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Golden, I don't know how we can play in the same thread when you say things like you would rather lynch a million civs than someone you personally don;t suspect.

that does not even make any sense. And this is coming from me, a person who has a high tolerance for lack of sense making.
How many civs would you lynch before bea?

None. Bea has not voted in favor of the baddies in every lynch, and argued extensively to save sig and try to imply guilt on people who chose not to participate in saving the baddie sig.

Bea did not do any of that shit. FZ did.

The point of that question was how many civs would you have to see dead before you would suspect FZ.

Golden, I don't know how we can play in the same thread when you say things like you would rather lynch a million civs than someone you personally don;t suspect.

that does not even make any sense. And this is coming from me, a person who has a high tolerance for lack of sense making.

You would lynch a million civs before lynching FZ?

Really?

I pretty much give up then. Whatever.

I think FZ could be bad.

I think Floyd & Luke are nubs and hard to judge by the standards with which we judge each other. And you know me, I pay attention to those i suspect, and not as much to everyone else.

Let me ask you a question. Do you hold the same degree of certainly about FZ that i hold about Bea? Be honest with me here.

Linki, What "tude"? Matt asked you a question you seem unwilling to answer it.

Well then perhaps you should.

Golden wrote:
S~V~S wrote:That's a really good question, tbh.
I disagree. If FZ isn't bad, the fact she has defended all the baddies is irrelevant.

Matt's question amounts to this - "Golden, I'm subtly trying to ask if you have info on FZ". The answer is no. As I said to zebra, I'm not a cop. I'm working on what is in the thread.

Nevertheless, I trust certain things. What if, for example, Sorsha came out tomorrow saying we absolutely should not lynch FZ. Would I still go ahead and vote for FZ? Probably not. I don't know if sorsha is actually an info role, but because Sorsha has been right about a lot, I would trust her (and believe that it might be info).

But in the more likely event that that does NOT happen, how many civilians would have to be lynched before you would be willing to vote for FZ?

That's a really good question, tbh.

FZ. wrote:
MacDougall wrote:I don't buy it. If the scum had a grand plan around making floyd look civ while sacrificing their own players all the power to them but I doubt it.
I was going to say you were wrong because they weren't the ones who started the votes on Floyd. If he's bad, they were just taking advantage of a stinky situation.
But, I looked again at the two lynches of MM and Sig and I actually think it's not likely.
Floyd was the third to vote for MM, when he himself only had one vote on him. He could have waited to see who was getting the votes and only if it was between him and MM, go for the MM option. Why push for the MM lynch, your alleged team mate? People were still debating.
We have 3 confirmed baddies voting for Floyd. It seems suicidal if MM gets lynched at the end, but maybe they just figured that's what we'd think. That part is still bothering me.

And then when Sig was being lynched, it seems like Floyd was really trying to save himself, because Sig wasn't considered bad at the time. It was just forced votes. So it was between Floyd and Sig. He put his vote on Sig when he got 3 votes.

Bea comes off looking bad from the Sig lynch. She was the last one to place her vote, and like I said, if Floyd came out civ and Sig was saved from a tie, it wouldn't make anyone look too bad, because everyone who voted for Floyd, could be seen as trying to save Sig who didn't really look bad to anyone.
Blooper also comes off looking bad because she was suspicious of Sig before, even noted it, but voted for Floyd just the same.

SVS, can you please explain why you think Bea is a civ?
In addition, whoever said Bloop feels okay, can you explain why?

Last but not least, Luke, who is acting weird and I can't decide if it's because it's his first game or because he's bad.

I really cannot say for certain why I think that. Suffice it to say that I never trust Bea, and if I have the chance to check her out, I do. I read her posts very thoroughly, looking to separate the truth from the lies, and I found no lies. I know her very very well, and I don't see bad Bea.

I am going to reread everyone else but you today, FZ. Perhaps my read of you is colored by your "I don't like SVS vote one bit" post, or perhaps it was all of your little jabbing feints at me early in the game (in my experience civ FZ speaks her mind, and bad FZ makes little jabby stabs at people, and I am seeing jabby stabs here) but I am having a very hard time seeing you as sincere.

So to clear that out a bit, I am going to think about everyone EXCEPT you today. I very well might vote for you in the end if I don't see anything anywhere else, but i feel i need to remove the blinders a bit.

I still think Matt knew something about my role, and about MMs role, when he said what he said to me, but there is no way I can prove it, and the last thing I ever want to do is get into a back & forth with Matt. So i am going to drop that, but if it turns out in the end that I was right, I am going to keep a link to this thread in my sig so it's handy in future games.

That is true; but Dr Yeuh also gave Jessica & Paul supplies and the Dukes signet ring after he died; things that kept them alive. So if he was atraitor, he was an unwilling one.

So I could see him being an either/or kind or role.

I would be more concerned with who is a Harkonnen first, agreed?

Sorry I was absent yesterday, I had a family issue that took precedence.

Bye TH, and BIH Beast!

I will get caught up again today, and again my apologoes to players & host.

Elohcin wrote:Dear God this autocorrect. I think TH and bea ARE bad. There.

I very seriously think Bea is not bad; on a scale of 1 to 10, I would give it a nine. I do think Matt is bad, though.

Matt F wrote:
bea wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
No one has been killed.

It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.
bea, does this outcome surprise you? Who do you think was targeted, if anyone?
I'm pretty happy about no kills. I'm not sure why you ask if that suprises me? It's not completely uncommon for a pm to not get sent in or for a kill to get blocked. Are you asking who I think was targeted for a kill? I have no idea.
I would think the target is Sorsha. How could it not be? Especially after all of the target painting.

Looking forward to your thoughts on my case. Why does SVS vouch for you?

How would she know? I read back through her posts and sorted through them, and I thought she was sincere, and she does not appear to me to have BTS.

Matt F wrote:Btw, Happy Birthday dudette

Okey dokey. Subtlety is a word I've yet to find in my dictionary, but I will reread to see what's up. I do believe I remember you predicting there would be more votes for sig later in the day, and then SVS comes in with the vote change, so there's that.

Yes, and the host confirmed that he allowed it~ he had to change the poll options to allow it

FZ. wrote:
Golden wrote:I don't think you are my top suspect, you've just gone from 'town read' to more middle of the road.
You know how when you make too many bad decisions, you don't feel like playing? That's where I'm at now. I'll get over it. I doubt I'll be NK, so I'll probably have to defend myself at some point.

This lynch was different. I did feel good about Sig, whereas with MM, I just couldn't decide between him and Floyd. Naturally, I'm feeling a lot better about Floyd now. Taking the risk and trying to save Sig would have worked much better for the baddies than saving MM because MM was "caught" while Sig had everything going for him. So I think baddies took the risk and joined the Floyd bandwagon. I'm not going to be the one pointing fingers because I feel I should just shut up now. Funny, how everyone is looking at me now, when other than you, no one really considered that Sig could be bad. At least as someone who thought he was good, I was trying to take responsibility, even if it was the wrong decision.

You reacted in an incredibly hostile way to me not holding my vote in order to save sig. I think if you HAD succeeded in saving sig, you & he would be leading lynches on any of us who deviated from the party line you created. That would be an extremely bold baddie gambit, but not totally unfeasible. Had I not been lame and our host not been gracious about letting me change my vote, I think you might have pulled it off. You were already setting me up for the next lynch with you "I don't like SVS' vote one bit" post. If that is what it is, a baddie gambit, even having failed it will be something people refer to. Had it been a baddie success it would have been legendary.

And Golden, I have a hell of a hard time reading TH. He is one of those people I have no opinion on until he is killing me, lol. But I will reread him.

And I feel very strongly that Bea is not on a baddie team.

Golden wrote:@Matt F, I was thinking through where I stand on each player a bit earlier. Putting together a mental rainbow list. And I realised that bea was floating back up to the higher end of my suspect list as well.

I don't think bea's vote missing is at all unusual for her, though, as a civilian or a baddie, in that she is often busy at the wrong times. But I do think your case is really strong, and I'm willing to consider a bea vote today.
]

I am not.

And hooray for no death

Matt, I am sorry, but your tone was pretty condescending IMO, so I reacted to it that way. I dislike being condescended to in the extreme, so sorry if i got snarky. Just becasue I dislike something is no reason for me to behave poorly.

"There are alot of flaws with your case. Do you see what they are?" is like you're talking to a little kid, though.

And no, I like my "case" (and it isn't a case, I seldom make cases, I make observations, which is not the same) just fine. It is based on what I know of this game; based on day & night results, and knowledge of my own role. I am not asking other people to follow it, but I do plan to do so.

And my points about FZ are varied, not just her votes. I think her whole demeanor feels off. Civ FZ is bold and direct; this FZ feels somewhat furtive. And trying to save a doomed teammate who is obviously being framed would be a bold move, but had I not been a nub re my vote, it might have paid off for them had FZ been able to herd the rest of you together in her quest to save sig.

Elohcin wrote:And, I think the last two (there are two left, right?) Are Zebra and TH. Just sayin'.

Not FZ? She pretty much was in charge of the Save Sig committee.

Talking to me like I am an idiot does not help.

Personally, I think my theory is flawless. Based on what I know, that is. I don;t know what you may or may not know. The person who poisoned me would have known it failed. And with the semi closed set up, trying to put out feelers as to why could not hurt, right?

Why did you ask me if i felt safe that night?

No I don;t have you as Emperor team, i have you on Harkonnen.

And poisoning is a cumulative effect. It piles votes on you. It is not a direct kill. I am fairly sure there is a poisoner in the game because i have reason to be

And Pieter Dr Vries would be the perfect poisoner role since he, um, poisons people in the books. So yeah.

@Matt~ this:

S~V~S wrote:It is possible. Although in Mafia structure, the Emperor could be another baddie, since he was against both Atreides & Harkonnen. It actually makes more sense, now that I am thinking about it, for him to be bad than for him to be indy. Although both night kills were house Harkonnen. Gah.

I am going to skate on thin ice here and hope not to annoy Skeletor~ based on his role, and based on something I know about my own role, , and based on my knowledge of the book, I think MMs power was as a poisoner. Based on my knowledge of Metalmarsh, I would not be at all surprised if he tried to poison me Night One. And I think Matt knew about it, based on his question to me about feeling safe. And I think he is target painting with both of those questions, the one to me and the one to Sorsha. I had not seen that question he posed to Sorsha, I am glad you pointed it out Bea. One question of that nature, OK, but two?

I overslept and will have to devote time to the other game when I get home tonight, so I am going to vote now.

*Votes Matt F*

Linki, BR suspected him based on something to do with the items, I don't recall exactly. Then she died. I have been frying my own fish, and tend to think sig just "sounds" bad most of the time and gets mislynched alot for it.

Although tbh if I were to be able to change my vote again, i would vote for FZ.

And I know you guys are trying to save sig, but really you should consider votes for Matt or FZ next time.

I voted matt initially, because I think he is bad. i think he is MMs teammate, tbh.

BUT then our gracious host helped me to see the error of my ways, and helped me out of a potentially fatal mess

So why the debate? The HOST let me change my vote. The host does not generally collude with people. I am not sure how/why anyone could try to make this seem like anything other than what it was.

FZ. wrote:
Golden wrote:I know this is a little less meaningful coming from one of the two options, but I don't think any 'save sig' train comes down to me or zebra... we are only one vote ahead of the pack.
You know what bugs me about all those who have placed a "forced" vote? You're leaving all consequences to us. Okay, say you had no choice. At least say who you think we should vote for. If I vote for a civ, I'll be looked at badly, while you all escape unscathed from this because you had no choice

Civvie FZ does not care what she looks like, imo.

Well, Epi DID reopen the poll for me and DID say it was a misunderstanding.

Hi is a gracious host

So

Linki~ holy cow, you didn't? I think alcohol is a much more pernicious drug than pot, tbh.

sig wrote:ummmm SVS is voting for me?

Oddly enough, it looks that way

this surprises me as much as it does you

Just say no to drugs, kids.

Guys, I have an object lesson for you about being high (or drunk) and Mafia.

If you read your PMs while you're high, read them again the next morning so you actually recall what they said

doh I thought the poll ended last night. Still OK with my vote, but need to catch up.

FZ. wrote:I'm not happy with SVS' vote one bit. If Sig has 3 votes, and we believe he's a civ, those of us who actually don't want a civ lynched should decide together who to vote for, so Sig doesn't end up being lynched.

SVS, why did you vote so early? And why didn't you talk about it with anyone?
In addition, you were really sure Eloh was bad. What happened to that? I didn't see you say you felt better about her.

Zebra, what happened to your Golden suspicion?
Am I the only one who feels that Zebra's back and forth with Mac as well as her accusations of Eloh a little forced? It's like she's trying too hard to look like she did as zebra 1. but something isn't coming through as she did then.

Well, sorry you don't like it one bit, I am fairly sure I have not liked any of your votes this game one bit, either.

I did not vote for Eloh as my thoughts on Eloh are more vibe than anything; I hated her vote for Zebra.01 and her reasoning felt disingenuous at best. She has not done much since then to make me feel WORSE about her.

And I voted since I will not have much time for here tonight since I spent all of my AM Mafia time here, and I don't particularly trust you and you are the person trying to decide who we bandwagon to save sig. I feel that, based on the posts he made, that Matt F had knowledge of baddie targeting. So I voted for him.

Linki @ Mac in light of Epis post~ me too

Linki, I was replying to Beas question about Tuek & the Emperor both being potentially Indy, I forgot to quote it. Who expects linkitis this time of the AM, lol?

It is possible. Although in Mafia structure, the Emperor could be another baddie, since he was against both Atreides & Harkonnen. It actually makes more sense, now that I am thinking about it, for him to be bad than for him to be indy. Although both night kills were house Harkonnen. Gah.

I am going to skate on thin ice here and hope not to annoy Skeletor~ based on his role, and based on something I know about my own role, , and based on my knowledge of the book, I think MMs power was as a poisoner. Based on my knowledge of Metalmarsh, I would not be at all surprised if he tried to poison me Night One. And I think Matt knew about it, based on his question to me about feeling safe. And I think he is target painting with both of those questions, the one to me and the one to Sorsha. I had not seen that question he posed to Sorsha, I am glad you pointed it out Bea. One question of that nature, OK, but two?

I overslept and will have to devote time to the other game when I get home tonight, so I am going to vote now.

*Votes Matt F*

Linki, BR suspected him based on something to do with the items, I don't recall exactly. Then she died. I have been frying my own fish, and tend to think sig just "sounds" bad most of the time and gets mislynched alot for it.

bea wrote:
Matt F wrote:Where's Sorsha? Hey Sorsha, since for some inexplicable reason the Harkonnen didn't kill you, here are a couple of quotes for you...

I am civ. I don't have btsc. I am town aligned. I root for the townies. Townies are my best friend.

Take any or all of those and report back so Golden and Mac can get off my back, please.
I'm sorry if this has been addressed, but it stands out to me.
Why do you think Sorsha has a lie detector role?

Obviously she learned something N1 that lead her to D2, but there are all sorts of roles that could gain "info." Allignement checks and other things - that could have given her info too. Jumping right to lie detector eitheroddly specific just like your question to svs felt oddly specific.

It almost feels like he is trying to pin civ roles down in the thread. I don't see the point of that with probably only one bad team. Regardless though, I don't particularly like it.

And in the book the Emperor conspired against both the Atreides and the Harkonnen. So I am not sure I see him as a civ, but I don't think he is per se bad either. I was thinking of him as an Indy.

@Bea, I tend to think of redirection as a chaos power, and chaos favors the baddies.

MacDougall wrote:I've seen this said a few times now. Why do you not put out your reads during the night?

If you are town and the scum kill you we have your thoughts. The scum killing a town version of you seems unlikely to me since you have a bit of suspicion on you.

I don't get it?

The way we used to play it, and some hosts still do, was that you had to be alive to win. So being alive pwns being helpful. It is just kind of ingrained in us. I have no problems talking in the night for the most part, but I have no problems with others not doing so if they prefer.

And yeah, you're tunneling. Or at least, you're wrong. It could well be as FZ says and none of the FLoyd voters were bad. But regardless of the affiliation of the others, I am a civ, and you can take that to the Guild Bank

So you suspect the people who were on the same "save MM" train as you were on?

I doubt the whole bad team was on that wagon, at least one of this is likely to be a civ. We know MM wasn't lol.

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