The Syndicate

Some people did, some did not. I think it had to do with when you joined. I spent like HOURS trying to figure out the permissions, and WHY it happened, but I finally gave up, and just fixed it

Awesome game, MP

Nevin, I have to apologize. I was SO sure you were a baddie trying to manipulate the info with the "logic" strategy. It finally clicked for me with the night bea suicided, and you having all the angst over the numbers. I bet you could actually SEE the light bulb going off over my *metaphorical* head that day. I apologize for freaking on you as well, I was VERY sensitive at that point, due to things said by others earlier in the game. It was uncalled for on my part.

I KNEW BF was bad before I even came back with him trying to argue against rezzing me on humane grounds. I also thought DH was bad, but could not find the goods on him (excellent game, DH~ Epi was supposed to be complimenting people with you, but he died that night) and I know that going against DH on "gut" (when I have seriously misread him in the past)without a damn fine case would be a mistake. I did not call kate for bad at all, and thought that FH might have been bad, lol, until the end. I do so tend to distrust logic arguments, so easy to manipulate, but this game has taught me, I think, not to automatically distrust it. FH knows I struggle with this, so I am sure she will be glad to hear it

I am glad to be one of the winners, but I am also glad I took a few lessons away from it. Any game where I learn something is a good game.

Yeah, you both did play an awesome game~ I wish Boom could win, too

bea wrote:

Nevinera wrote:I voted bea to win, because I'm pretty sure that was the plan we all would have followed.

I am impressed by how close boom got though! Not at all an easy role to manage.

also - thanks for that - but we can't predict what would have happened one way or the other. svs trusted/suspected me like every 42 seconds (see what I did there wif da numbers svs? )

I still think boom deserves the win just as much as I do.

I really REALLY REALLY wish Elo hadn't conned me right now.

Well played elo - really - you were the slippery and trickstery baddies of all.

Elo is quite the heart tugger, isn't she? She has a career as a baddie in the cards.

And i always trust/susp you ever 42 seconds. I buy whatever you're selling SO HARD that it makes me tense, and i doubt my gut, and another 42 second cycle begins.

DFaraday wrote:Nothing against Boom, but I can't vote against Bea. *Votes Bea*

This^

Plus I think she played a civvier game. As a civ this matters to me.

Poor MP. I wonder if he has made it back to Kentucky or if he is still in Limbo

My God, poor MP

That all sounds like a horrible nightmare. Have you been sleeping in airports?

Flyin' High wrote:
So the game isn't over. Does that mean we need to take care of Cohen? Or is there another baddie unaccounted for?

Yeah.

Well, I am glad you guys were right, and now I know Elo can manipulate me emotionally, lol. Nice to know for the future.

Sorry you are gone that way Hedge.

And hope you make the right choices with the boxes.

P.S. I did not even go into my SD opinions as she is not on the poll.

FH, I would not have you do anything differently <3

Basically it is my premise (and always has been, really) that it is easier to be successful as a baddie when you can speak the language of the civvies convincingly. I think discussing odds, probability, etc., usually does give good odds of narrowing the flock to the smallest possible baddie pool. But it is also a conversation I find that it is easier in general for baddies to blend into since it is facts, not opinions~ a fact is or it isn't; opinions can be twisted. For instance, helpful as he was, I really do think DH was bad. I was trying to find a chink in his armor when he got Red Roomed.

I was hoping, via emotional outburst, to get people talking a bit about other than WHO is in the votable baddie pool (overall, Hedgie, Elo, Faraday & FH) and more about sorting them out. I have eliminated FH & Faraday based on things they have said. So Elo has once again said very little~ Hedgie, however, has said a bunch, and none of it really made me feel better about her. I would not be surprised if they both were bad, tbh.

So I am going to vote for you Hedge I feel marginally more confident that you are bad.

*votes*

Linki agreed re Zodac attacking, and i opened mine in PA Avant and died, I have no experience of Avant 2, where apparently they did NOT explode. I am sure it is some other option this time, like I said, the most wicked thing I can think of is that we hold each others buttons, lol.

Every time i express an opinion, you tell me about hints, or FH tells me what I missed. Like i said, i just sincerely hope you all are right.

You're right there are unknowns but being they are unknown, I can't really factor them in can I?

True. But no one seems to be even acknowledging that the possibility (probablility, certainty) that our host is fucking with us exists. And while some people might not know this, some should. like me, like you. The tone of this remark strikes me badly.

Again, i want to vote for you,~ very, very badly. You are setting off every alarm I have. But more than any other game i have ever played, I feel irrelevant, which makes me doubt myself.

Well, this is so contrary to the way i feel comfortable playing, that I will bow out for now. You guys tell me how i should vote, and i will do that. I just really hope you all are right. I have found my gut to be good over the years, and things are not always what they seem. For me, penciling roles for people ruins games, no mystery, no fun, and in my experience, is wrong almost 50% of the time. I guess I understand the Ksite way better now, where all the roles are not known. I might host my next game that way.

So i will be back to vote~ later

Ah, I noticed mention of the SI. I will go sit in a corner now, lol.

• Jim Moriarty - [Sherlock] – A criminal mastermind, he seeks revenge on those he sees as meddlers. Every even night, he attempts to uncover a player’s role, thereafter publicly revealing his result, but his result has a 50% chance of being inaccurate. As his team’s killer, he eradicates a player of his choice every odd night. If he dies, his kill passes to the next in line above him.

Anything else about this role is theoretical.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that that role has only a 50% chance of a reveal being successful in any case. So even if we COULD decipher which were the SI additions, the remainders are only a 50/50 crap shoot.

A few people seemed to be implying that DF had hinted at a certain role. Maybe it was a real hint, maybe it was a fake one, maybe it was a freaking coincidence. But a hint means someone is a civvie, right? Should that be orange, lol?

Memo to all, if I ever hint again myself, shoot me, K?

I was thinking that maybe we have each others "Disarm Bomb" buttons, that would be very evil, lol.

Well, in Avant at PA, he killed everyone who opened the package, lol. So that is my experience with Sockses bearing boxes.

So as i see it, our options are Elo, FH & Hedge, right? Based on what I have been reading and who has been presumably cleared?

I am just going to say that i am extremely frustrated; I find it highly unlikely that our host would allow his roles to be so easily pinned down, and i find it distressing that no one will take it under consideration that there might be things they do not know.

For a variety of reasons, Boom struck me as someone with BTS, not as an Indy.

Much as i do not wish to lose after dying twice, I must say I will smirk if not laugh when the boom is dropped by the host. As i am sure it will be.

I figure i am just waiting to be night killed, lol.

FH, I have no idea. My game is very different than yours, I play an intuitive game, and i am very out of my element in this game, to be quite frank. All of this role assignment when there are no info roles disturbs me immensely. Sometimes people have a theory, and they become so convinced of its veracity, that it becomes fact in their mind, but it ISN'T fact. So my gut is telling me to lynch Boomslang, in all honesty.

I think I saw the same thing you did re Faraday. I often tend to misread bea, so i don't want others to vote based on my vapors.

Like i said, at this point, the people I trust are saying things very contrary to my gut, which is generally good, and which I usually trust.

But it is not just Cohen he is being posited as is it? It could also be another role?

And who do you propose in his place?

Elohcin wrote:

Flyin' High wrote:Elohcin, I can't fathom why you are pushing this lynch Boomslang stuff so much. The facts show he wasn't lynchable yesterday. If Boomslang is Cohen, he isn't a direct threat (except to those who voted him--of which you are one, is that the reason you want to lynch him so badly?). If he is Fetus, according to BWT he wasn't lynchable yesterday. Do you think BWT was lying?

I guess you are right FH. I had forgotten it was just yesterday, seems like it was earlier than that. Maybe we ought to give it some time.

Maybe she is just eager to lynch a baddie?

FH, you mainly seem to make appearances to remind us that some baddies are apparently more baddie-er than other baddies, although the identity of the less bad baddie is the one we all seem to agree on.

Would you prefer to lynch a baddie who is not as dangerous, or take a chance at this stage of the game guessing?

Becasue I am finding the whole "but if he's Baddie X, he is not as big a threat" etc to be getting old after lynching a civ and non lynches.

Since you are so dead set against lynching Boom, FH, who do you suggest?

So apparently this game has come down to role hints? I don't generally look for hints and/or claims, they could be faked, they could just be coincidences.

The one time I was sure someone was dropping me a hint, it turns out I was 1,000% wrong, and it shattered my confidence in myself and in them. I am comfortable with the vote i made, and if i was wrong, sorry Bea. I am not sure if I would have expected you to defend her harder, or the opposite, were you bad. Oh the WIFOM.

bea wrote:I'm going to be on my phone most of the day.

In terms of ? my largest ones are for Boom, Elo and SD.

Hedgey and goosey are in the next level. It's possible one of them are conning me in my feelings of civness.

I feel pretty sure that DP is civ.

Then SVS, Nev and Lizzy.

I'm most sure I'm civ.

I have no idea where to vote, but I'm willing to follow what those I trust most think is best. I've had crap luck trying to figure anything out.

Based on that, I am not sure who you think to be Percy. Or, should i say, there is only one person you could be alluding to based on process of elimination, and i have read that persons posts over and over before today, and i have no idea how you would get that idea of this persons role, or indeed, any idea of their role at all, based on their posts.

I kinda think Percy is dead~ I had someone in mind for that role.

I am gonna go with Bea. Her throwing Goosey under the bus so easily after the major production yesterday is making me tense, tbh.

Hedgeowl wrote:

bea wrote:Goosey did also imply pretty heavily that she had lots to do with my rez and that it may have been a result of the contest prizes. Again I ask, why would she have rezed me if she wasn't civ? This is one of the things I mean by "her actions in the game aren't consistent with being a baddie."

I guess she could be pulling the wool over my eyes, but it's really, really hard for me to buy that she's bad.

Bea I am interested in this thought right here. Do you still think mongoose had something to do with your rezz? Considering you defended her yesterday but now place her and I as tier 2 suspects I am just wondering. Based on ths statement and some thinking I have been wondering if mongoose is in fact a very useful civvie.

Now that we know it was a tie between Boom and Elo, there are only so many reasons that could have happened. Based on Nevs thought that Percy could have influenced the vote, there are only 3 people that could be: Mongoose, bea, and Elo.

Based on bea statements above if BDH were thomas and his partner Percy had the ability to rezz someone, wouldnt it be likely that person would rezz bea? Only other way I see this working is if bea is Percy. Thoughts?

This would make me reevaluate my stance on Mongoose. Otherwise I will probably vote for her again.

Linki

There were also contest prizes. Lets not forget those.

Flyin' High wrote:I don't see how it would provide any info. If he survived once, he'll survive again and the same roles will be considered. And if he is Cohen, like Nev thinks, then he's not as immediate a threat as Creeper or Fetus.

I am torn on who to vote for today.

I want to lynch someone who is, A) Bad, and B) will die

Getting someone who is a more immediate threat would be good, but in the absence of 100% foolproof info, a dead baddie will be good for me, regardless of immediacy.

Maybe he had different win cons there? Here he can win with any team, he is not a LMS role. And I am not thinking Boom is Zodac, tbh.

So who do you think IS Fetus? Or Creeper?

Boomslang wrote:Well, I guess Zodac didn't get the memo regarding the usefulness of an Elo lynch to the baddie-hunting cause. For all reasons previously outlined, I'm very inclined to vote her again today.

But let's think about the likely outcomes if you vote for me again today. If I'm Fetus, you can't kill me until BWT passes his random search, which is basically a coin flip and a potentially wasted lynch. If I'm Cohen, you'll have wasted a lynch on an almost entirely harmless indie role. If I'm MacGuyver, I'm invincible until Penny dies, so you'll gain no new information from my lynch (unless timmer was Penny, in which case you'll be killing a civ).

So if I were in your shoes, I'd be searching for a better target than me.

So... you are not saying you are a civvie? You are trying to talk us out of lynching you based on probablities?

You're bad, IMO.

By the way, i know i said it before. I run a game show; prizes~

Earlier I used my thang to get quiet people to talk or before I was rezzed openly as HR, for fun. But now I only plan to give contests to those I trust if possible. So if you got one, don't be annoyed at me

I have also seen a frustrated civvie SVS & MP do that, too. More actually, lol.

The fact that she did not choose to talk to us until she was taking votes still bothers me. Although the last few minutes of that lynch kinda clarified my feelings on some other things. Gooseys post about how she was glad she did not vote Elo rang SO false to me, like someone who KNOWS someone is not a baddie~ and the best way to know that is to be a baddie. I have mainly seen that, though, in one team games. So even though I have seen games with merged Mafias, I don't know that that is what has happened here.

But to me the person who i came out of that paranoia fest feeling worst about was Mongoose. Timmers analysis was interesting. Lets see what Zodac does, and take it from there.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I'm not buying the baddie teams merging thing. In my almost 5 years of playing mafia, I have NEVER been in a game where that has happened. In fact, if someone has been in a game where that's occurred, I would like to know what game it is. Because while I'm sure it's possible, I've never, ever seen it happen before from what I remember.

I'm surprised no one else mentioned it, but I could see bea being Creeper and targeting herself when she had the shield. She survives a nightkill attempt and possibly gains massive civvie cred for it. I used that exact same strategy in Electronic Mafia. DP was on my indy team, and I protected him on the same night when we chose to target him for a NK. One of the baddie teams also happened to target him that same night, and he gained massive civvie cred from that. Enough that we won the game because of it.

So regardless of whether bea had the shield or not, she could still be Creeper for all we know. And I think the only way we will find out at this point is to lynch her. Which is fine since I'm pretty firmly convinced she's bad, and will vote for her until one of us dies.

I have merged baddies in several games I hosted. I did it in Stoners with Bea, and in Dogma with JC. I have played in a game where it happened, too, but i don't recall which one.

It is not the commonest thing, but it is not unheard of.

Yeah, what FH said, getting mad at us when you could have joined the discussion (I was at work all day, sneaking around with my phone to catch up, I know it isn't easy) really does not seem fair.

And Bea, it was obvious what I thought, you knew what i thought, but you chose not to mention that i was wrong until your trust of Mongoose was questioned? The only civ way I can explain this is that BDH was the Seemer, and that does not make sense, even to me, lol.

i need to walk away from this for now and do some thinking.

All of you Elo savers might have done better to vote for the same people.

And Bea, all this does is move you back into my gray zone. I should have voted Mongoose.

Linki~ OK, more time to regroup and talk. 24 hours was hard

And Mongooses "Oh My! I bet she's a civ. super duper glad i did not vote for HER" is making me even more sure of it

I really am sorry. And i know he did not vouch for you, that's kinda my point. This had to happen at some point.

i just went back and read the exchange that led me to believe what i believed, and I am beginning to think i had the wool pulled over my eyes.

Linki~ yeah, right? Now is your chance, Elo.

Eloh, you have been quick to rely on his defenses in the past, don't get mad when it backfires.

I am sorry, but my confidence got shaken here, and hard. I lost my trust in my own judgment since I have been believing something that I no longer know to be true, and talking people out of their suspicions based on something that was false. I trust Nevins judgment more than my own this minute.

I am going to vote Eloh. You said something to me on thread Bea, about you passing the shield. The context in which you said it led me to believe something other than what you are saying now. It is why I vouched for you.

I have to think about this, and I trust Nevin.

I did not say that either.

You are kinda confusing me.

You are not wrong. Not sure how a third party fits in there, but I don't want you to explain either.

And I am not arguing she is bad. I just want to understand your thought process.

bea wrote:Unless I'm miss-reading your "bea related night reasons" for trusting me, I think in a 6 degrees of separation thing goosey is also involved. Am I making sense there? I can come out and be blunt about it if I need to.

As for DF - he was looking at me back when I was making myself a pretty good lynch candidate. He very quietly stopped right about the time BDH started standing up for me pretty hard. He also pointed out that there could be civ reasons for the weird moriarty message on the NP FH was analyzing earlier - give me a second and I'll find it again.

If there is another person involved in my reason for trusting you, then that weakens my conviction, tbh. Then that eliminates it, actually.

Give me reasons to trust them, talk me into it.

Why? I gave reasons for my opinions.

TBH, Faradays post is making me want to vote for faraday~ he dismisses one circumstantial bit of belief out of hand, but fully accepts another circumstantial bit about someone else.

I don't love the kate vote as a litmus test, since even if all of her theoretical teammates voted for her, still more people that were NOT her teammates voted for her, too. As a matter of fact, i hate it. So i also hate Faradays post up there^^

I don't want to split things up too much. So I will not vote on a tangent belief, i think that is too risky today. I think todays posts will tell us alot regardless of what happens. And Bea, I also feel warm, happy thoughts about goosey. And that is exactly how i play my baddie game myself. So her defending you, buddying up, as it were, like Boom accuses Timmer of, does not make one a civvie.

And Boom, I was not saying you were wrong about Tim~ i am saying the reasons why were wrong from my perspective.

Boom, I don’t rely much on role analysis~ I think it is very easy to manipulate how info is perceived in the thread when all possible knowledge is far from known (Homestar gives out prizes, for instance; no one has taken this into account that I have seen). TBH, it is why I initially distrusted Nevin. So FHs post about why he can’t be on team X because of Y and unlikely to be on Team Z because of W, etc., is the last thing that would sway me. I tend to ignore that kind of stuff, which is probably why Nevin thought I was drunk, lol.

It was something Nevin himself said during the conversation with BDH the day it all clicked into place for me. I had no preconceived ideas of who he might have been, just something he said made it clear to me.

I will follow the people I trust today, because I agree we should stick together. But I will be pretty surprised if you are not bad, Boom.

You are not listening to what I am saying, Boom. I have said all I plan to on this topic.

But this has kinda shot you way up on my list.

Boomslang wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Boomslang wrote:

timmer wrote:Boomslang, the Nevin thing is a bit subtle, but the host has essentially proven bwt is Meat Boy. Saying bwt isn't cleared just means you aren't paying attention.

Gah, I knew that. Excuse me for getting lost in two threads and exchanging players and the host not updating the player list with the revealed info, like he did for when Lizzy got brought back as Mycroft. Ok, so I was wrong there. The Nevin thing is "subtle." Care to enlighten me?

No. You have to hit me over the head with a brick for me to notice role subtleties~ and I saw it. Read back.

And re my targets, the first time, night one, both of my original targets have since died, and neither came up as a civ. The second they are both alive, one I trust implicitly. The other is on my "?" list, but MP seems to be saying that only one would redirect, so that point is moot.

@Lizzy~I could go with your list. And something good happened for me a while ago, something caused by Bea at that time. It happened again last night

I will be back in tons of time for the poll (9:54 PM my time) and will keep up with the thread during the day (just won't post much at work on phone).

I'm sorry, but I still don't see anything obvious. I see Nev doing decent analysis, getting insanified, and then "yes-manning" the discussion. I also think it's very interesting how Timmer fell into line with you today after you threw the merest hint of a suspicion at him a couple days ago. Agreeing with a confirmed civ is a smart and blendy move.

Timmer "fell in line with me" because I believe he read back and found my point. Search "illuminating" and read back from my post using it.