The Syndicate

Why isn't he Japanese?

I just checked LOST:Revolution and that had 7955.

That started out with about 50 I want to say?

ha ha ha

Glad that was fun for you

I thought you were bad the whole game. I was writing a vote post voting for you when i was killed. I thought YOU were Light, and MM was who he was.

This game almost cured me of Mafia. Almost. Midday kills=harshest mechanic ever.

zeek wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Another question. What are the odds, in your opinion, that DH is Kira?

This is where I'm struggling with both of them. I don't see either of them butting heads so radically if either was Kira. We can talk about egos, but they're clever enough to avoid this sort of thing if either is Kira.

My worry with Zomb is how convinced she is she's right. I feel it could be a move to lynch Snowman incase HE is onto her. If he flips civ, she could just play the noob card.

linki what DH said

He did not act like he was "on to her" until after she came out hard against him.

I don't think that being leery of a group that has"????" as its' win condition is "fear mongering"; I think it's prudent

I'll read all of it tonight.

Turnip Head wrote:I only accept cookies.

The internet is made of pictures of L & cookies. That is all.

bea wrote:dunno if anyone is TH - I just know my own personal paranoia kicks in when people put too much faith in my goodness with little reasoning.

And quite possibly you are right TH - maybe there isn't cred in this game per say, but you can't deny that a Kiria is still trying to look as in thread civ friendly as possible.

I know if I were in Snowman's position, and I had the role I do have, I'd be worried about why some people are so certian I deserve the benifit of the doubt. But maybe I'm just super paranoid.

And while there's no "civ cred" in the standard sense - you can't tell me that if snowman gets lynched and turns up a kira or sympathizer that it won't change how LOTS of people look at zombra or llama. Because it will. Just like you flat out asked zombra to take responsibility if snowman flipped detective. If someone is going to change their opinion of the lynch leaders in that sort of lynch based on how he flips - why WOULDN'T the same people look at the people that supported him in the same context?

Snowman - thank you for the response. I disagree with you but I appreciate your response.

linki - good question TH.

Bea, what does that ^^ mean?

And your tone is confusing me; you sound mad to me. Not necessarily in this post, but in general. As if you think people are picking on Epi specifically.

bea wrote:While I enjoyed the elephant gif a lot. I disagree with your list. I've read russ as actually saying pretty sane and decent things since he started posting and I have fairly good feels about most of the others on your list.

As I'm reading it - the only reason you suspect Zombra is because she is convinced you are bad. Is there something else there you are seeing that I'm too dense to get? From where I'm sitting - she's reading pretty up front and genuine.

I'm curious what they have in common - in your eyes - that links them as kira's together outside of their suspicion of you.

Do you find anything at all curious about the people who don't suspect you? Or even the people who seem to defend you? Does it not strike you odd that in a game with such little BTS that you have such vocal defenders? Aren't you just the least bit worried about the idea that they might be kissing up to you so that you don't suspect them? Or so - if you are lynched - they look good for defending you?

What about the people dropping off the radar - like DP and Bass and Made?

I cut out the mega gross elephant butt post, it was too big and that thing gave me nightmares, lol.

Again, we disagree. If anything, I think, in a game with so little BTS, it leaves us more free to defend if something in a case or argument against someone seems wrong. I am LOVING this game becasue of it. I am defending people right and left & seeing both sides of every story, instead of being afraid to do so. It's liberating

It surprises me to hear you, of all people, say so since I know you are also an underdog defender. Not seeing that here. Unless you would call Epi an underdog, and I don't see him that way, and I don't think he would like it were people to do so. Since you think vocally defending someone is suspicious, or odd as you say, why are you so vocally defending Epi?

I am not going to give you a cookie, I am going to give you a puppy, because I don't think you have one.



I really could go either way; I could see either being bad (not Yotsuba, but bad). On one level, Epi being unlynchable would not surprise me, but on the other it kinda would. I think he would be more actively chaos sowing if he knew he would not die. And Snowmans responses have not helped him in my eyes. It looked like a big No U last night, and it still does this AM. I totes agree with you there, Bea. So I will follow along today, and decide at some point.

This is a very fancy No U. Fun, manipulative. I like him!

Survey says, I believe Zomba.

That ^^ was @Snowman

I only have 48 pages, I am set to 60 posts per page. And TH already pulled it for me

bea wrote:I'm mafiaing while waiting on dinner date during cocktail hour - I did forget he voted Epi day2. Is it at all possible that mm and you are just misguided really Epi? And/or am I that blindsided by him? In which I'm not the only one
Elohim and llama both seem to think a vote there is a poor vote am I the only person that makes atop to pause re: Epi? Dinner starting now and phone super low on battery

A lot of people are misguided every game, since so many civs get lynched.

Time will tell. Hell, I may not even vote for him, I might still vote for Snowman. She sounds VERY sure, and he sounds very slippery.

I meant the bottom bit, lol, TH. Pulling that out of the quote. For someone skimming, that is the part they would remember. And a smart baddie plays to the cheap seats, the people who come in, skim & vote. That post was for the cheap seats, IMO.

I could go either way here, tbh. Zomba sounds very sure, and I can relate to that sureness, and she took DHs challange re responsibility. He sounds flip and flustered, trying to make light of it.

I don;t like it.

But Epi has been doing the heavy handed "leave the Yotsuba be" so hard, it's like he's hinting. But he insists he will not hint, yada yada yada, and THAT I believe. So I don't believe he is Yotsuba. He is not being open, I don't think, and he is not seeking Kira. He is drawing targets on people, and contradicting himself, I can't see him being a civ.

bea wrote:Yes - thank you.

Boom. Sorry about that. I am multitasking from my phone. Between typing issues and distractions and beer. Yea.

Linkie - I do agree with you about snowman though - that felt as out of context as you could pull a.post.

Linkie - booms post was fair. About mm's case being odd post actually ya know - voting because this.is not a vote changeable game.

For me its the vote first case later bit.

Again, I disagree. MM voted for Epi the day before, did he not? So it was not out of the clear blue. Again, I do this all the time. It never made you suspicious when I do it.

If he had not voted for him the previous day, I might agree. But he did vote for him Day 2.

bea wrote:Svs - he's done it too - but that Blaime can be spread far and wide amongst the what did you call it like day one "alpha male syndrome "?

Bullz was pretty reasonable in his point about mm's case being pate and post vote in an unchangeable vote game.

Dh's posts to Epi read very pot and kettle to me ATM. Between the two I'm reading Epi as more genuine.

I am also surprised you say that re Booms case~ becasue what MM did is EXACTLT what I do. I read and I watch & I remember, and form my opinion. I don't generally bother with a case. I say how I feel and I vote. If someone pushes me I will pull quotes, but MM has voted Epi a few times iirc.

i have been a bit pinged by MM in various places, and tbh, that case is the thing that has gone furthest towards settling my mind a bit about him. He but it together pretty fast it seemed to me; he knew what he was thinking, and knew what he was looking for.

Third time's a charm:
Snowman is exceptionally subtle in his implications. I am used to reading him and it's the duality of his post that gives him away. I use that tactic all the time, but he only does it when he feels cornered/guilty. That's really it. I know that you might feel that you don't have any reason to trust me but that's why I'm so excited about this. When we eventually find out that I am right, you will all trust me more

So this is the context, then. He took it right the hell out of context, and that sent him way up my charts. This post reads very genuine to me, and open. He clipped out a bit to make her look worse, without the context that she was saying that as a contrast from her behavior to his.

Linki~ I guess we have to agree to disagree, Bea.

Turnip Head wrote:SVS he "subtly" changed her username in the second quote :P

I saw that I just want to see what context she said that in originally. Because if he took it out of context, that would put weight to her case, yes?

Snowman wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:Third time's a charm:
Snowman is exceptionally subtle in his implications. I am used to reading him and it's the duality of his post that gives him away. I use that tactic all the time, but he only does it when he feels cornered/guilty. That's really it. I know that you might feel that you don't have any reason to trust me but that's why I'm so excited about this.

Exceptionally subtle? What's the deal with your avatar?

Zombkira wrote:I use that tactic all the time...

So, like, now?

Did you just modify her quote? Since we don't link to the original, it is hard to tell.

bea wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:This is a question that comes up frequently in situations such as this and I want to ask Zomberella:

You seem perfectly content to reap the rewards if Snowman is bad. Would you shoulder the blame if Snowman is good?

That is a fair and good question dh - why can't I do good questions like that?

@ svs - I read that post as genuine frustration.for me I see three types of posts from him this game. Trying to help, frustration, and fuck it. Idc. Anymore

He's getting flack for not narrowing down a Kira but has any of the people accusing him of this done that either? Or have.they split hairs and nitpicked a lot?

I kinda thought he was the Nitpicker & Hairsplitter in charge tbh. Who has been nitpicking against him?

Linki

Snowman wrote:

boo wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

So our last lynch was pretty good. Lets get another baddie today.

That's clearly a demon-possessed llama. Therefore, we should kill llama.

Also, I saw Zomberella with the devil-llama.

I'm down.

He posted this about 10, 15 minutes ago.

DH not MD

bea wrote:Epi feels genuine in these posts. And Fwiw -i think he's contributed far more than I have even if it has been tough at times to get to it.

He does? In what way~ I am missing it and if I am wrong I would like to have it explained to me.

He said exactly the same thing to MD as he said to DH, that I just want him gone. That does not sound genuine to me. Tbh.

bea wrote:MM - nice case! :nod: I'll admit, I've just kinda been skimming Epi - looking for stuff that actually helps and sorta ignoring the wonky. I could see myself voting there.

OMG Zombra's avi. You two have a super fun marriage don't you?

So, I think it was SVS (?) thinking that the LC kill was probably done by a Rev player. Does anyone have any feelings on this? BR - any ideas on who might have wanted LC out of the picture?

Hubby has a dental apt in like an hour - not sure if we are running around between then and our dinner date, but I will keep up on my phone (what else am I going to do while I'm sitting in the waiting room? )

I said the opposite, I think it wasn't a RM player. I think its recent, not older history.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Could you be transparent with who you think is Kira, Epi?

I an gonna guess he either says, "No", or he says "S~V~S".

I have already expressed my opinions. I am not going to post again simply because a god of death (who voted for me already) asks me to do so. I think it's important that the non-Kira are able to read the thread and make informed decisions. I think some people will visit the thread and see they have dozens of pages to read and instantly feel overwhelmed. I think you mentioned something along those lines.

So instead of answering the question, you made a post about not making a post since it would be redundant? Which would clog up the thread as much as an answer, which would have actually made it easier for those catchers up to find your position.

Turnip Head wrote:Could you be transparent with who you think is Kira, Epi?

I an gonna guess he either says, "No", or he says "S~V~S".

Turnip Head wrote:

I think you have been rather helpful, actually. Its easy to forget little things in a huge thread, and you don't seem to be trying to steer, so

Your posts have not felt fluffy. MM feels more fluffy than you do, tbh, since Epi grouped you together.

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Thank you

I'm glad we had this talk.

Thank you

lol, posting in bed "the" not "thee".

But in any case, waiting seems to me like just a way to get the late, "I didn't really read the thread, but there was this discussion right here on the top of this page I am reading (cause I ain't gonna read the other 14 pages posted today lol) so I am gonna vote for that person" voters to jump on your train.

Also, don't want to get accused of not addressing things. If you have something to say, please say it.

thellama73 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:Epi probably won't like me saying it, but there is a civ role that cannot be lynched or NK'd (as far as we know right now). It is possible that he is good. Weird, but good. I am still going to vote Snowman.

I thought you said you wanted to talk to me about it first.

I thought you were gonna talk about SVS.

Later.

Why? Do me thee common courtesy of "now".

Turnip Head wrote:I think Epi might be Kira posing as Yotsuba so that we don't view him as a threat. I also think he might have killed LC.

This is actually kinda what I thought too. Are you serious, or are you making fun of me, or fishing for a reaction? Becasue nobody seems to just say what they think anymore.

He keeps saying no hints, no outing, etc., but he is seeming very Yotsuba. So I don't think he is Yotsuba. And why would a civ imply he was Yotsuba? That leaves Kira Symps or Sidoh.

Linki, so much for quiet calm.

Night

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Wow, TH & MM already voted.

Sure did.

I don't believe Epi is being intentionally inconsistent.

You believe he is being unintentionally inconsistent? Or Unintentionally consistent?

Either way it adds up to you not suspecting him. Or am I just a fail at reading?

Wow, TH & MM already voted.

"A certain series of events"~ secrets within secrets.

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:OK, ha ha. I missed a question in a busy thread, and when someone pointed it out, I promptly answered it.

the fact that you prodded me to answer a question I had already answered makes me feel you don't read MY posts, so right back at cha.

I hope you are not accusing me of being personal here, becasue it is not personal.

Linki, well, you are incorrect. So everyone should take all of your opinions with a grain of salt.

I take everything he says wth several grains of salt, knowing that half the time, he doesn't even believe what he's saying, but is trying to get a reaction.

I need to remind myself of that more; I tend to take people at face value insofar as that is possible in a Mafia game.

Matahari wrote:Nit-picking, as a profession, pays very well.

OK, ha ha. I missed a question in a busy thread, and when someone pointed it out, I promptly answered it.

the fact that you prodded me to answer a question I had already answered makes me feel you don't read MY posts, so right back at cha.

I hope you are not accusing me of being personal here, becasue it is not personal.

Linki, well, you are incorrect. So everyone should take all of your opinions with a grain of salt.

Boomslang wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Boom, did you see my very reasonable answer? Would not want you to miss it and think I did not answer it.

What would be amazingly bad? Saying something like, "My kill failed last night" or something of that sort. Really, it was just a remark basically saying it would take a lot of convincing for me to vote for boo. And it would. It would have to be one hell of a smoking gun, becasue I have not seen anything that leads me to believe he is bad. I won't say he's GOOD, but I certainly don't suspect him any more than anyone else at this stage.

Duly noted. I can't say I'm fully satisfied with that answer, because the example you're giving is basically an example of (forbidden) role outing. I do understand that you have a high standard of proof, and I just hope that carries forward to everyone else in the game.

linki w/TH: Yes, but changing multiple opinions without the presence of significant changes to the available evidence? I've pointed out a pattern of behavior here, not an isolated instance.

Here is Booms answer to me about that post. I just looked for the nearest post of yours to the link you provided, Epi.

Like I said other times after that, I don't suspect boo, so it will take alot to get me to vote for him. Not sure why this is such a smoking gun for you :P but OK.

Oh you both asked it. But I answered it Epi.

That is a post by me. The answer to the question is at the bottom of the post.

And Boom asked that question, not you.

Can you stop being all Mr Mysterious and just ask me the question. This is really freaking obnoxious.

Fair enough.

Epignosis wrote:I was struck by FZ.'s thrust at S~V~S for not contributing to discussion. I might vote there again.

This is what you linked me to. Not a question. Can you pretty please with sugar on top quote it?

Linki, yeah, I have done that as well. But saying right off the mark that someone would never do it becasue it is too obvious is a mistake imo.

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression.

I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach.

Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect.

I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill.

What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right?

I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind.

"I believe she is awfully inconsistent" says the man who has been completely inconsistent.

Yeah, but I'm intentional.

I dunno, but from the cheap seats where I am, being intentionally inconsistent is worse than being unintentionally inconsistent. Which is pretty much how I play my game, I flit around.

What question did you want to ask me about boo, the one you said I did not answer?

Linki @ MM, LC plays and he plays hard. He plays harder on weekdays, though, since weekends=family. So who would want to shut him up? But thanks for volunteering that. You too, Epig. You were already on my list though, so no WIFOM ooooo

This one.

Me saying that makes you want to lynch me even more? Ha- you're not even trying. Come on...daughter (phrase sounds stupid when you use the feminine word instead of "son," doesn't it?).

I'm starting to think you still are afraid of me. You shouldn't be. But go ahead and lynch me so you can sleep better. If I *am* good, and you are too, then you lost a decent ally. If you aren't good, then you don't care if I die.

I think you are too concerned with the threat I bring instead of the help. I get that's a risk, but for once, if you ARE a detective, think it through before you help lynch me.

But do what you gotta do. I care not.

No I am really not. The power of Typos. You can ask LLama & MM about that

And I will answer the question in another post, since I need to open it in separately from this reply, and can't type a post and go back and forth. This is why I keep asking everyone to go old school & quote.

Linki, yeah, this is why I don't think it is an RM player.

thellama73 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:So you're eliminating Epi from being Kira because Long Con suspected him?

Would you kill someone who was gunning for you on the first night? It's a bit obvious, isn't it?

Yes. Becasue then people say,

thellama73 wrote:
Would you kill someone who was gunning for you on the first night? It's a bit obvious, isn't it?

They say it every game. Someone who had strong suspicions of a person is NKed, and everyone says, "Oh, the dead guy suspected RacerX. But RacerX would never do that, it's too obvious." And they move on, leaving RacerX to chortle in his chatroom. Sometimes RacerX IS a civ, so it's cool. Bit sometimes he isn't and he gets away with it ALOT. It happens all the time. I have been RacerX; you have never done that? Ever?

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression.

I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach.

Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect.

I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill.

What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right?

I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind.

"I believe she is awfully inconsistent" says the man who has been completely inconsistent.

Yeah, but I'm intentional.

I dunno, but from the cheap seats where I am, being intentionally inconsistent is worse than being unintentionally inconsistent. Which is pretty much how I play my game, I flit around.

What question did you want to ask me about boo, the one you said I did not answer?

Linki @ MM, LC plays and he plays hard. He plays harder on weekdays, though, since weekends=family. So who would want to shut him up? But thanks for volunteering that. You too, Epig. You were already on my list though, so no WIFOM ooooo

I know, that's why I said the last game is too close. I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, either. I want to, though. You sound so reasonable

Also, I have been trying to think about who would kill LC this early, and why.

Some people do not act or feel like baddies to me, so at this stage, I feel OK about them. I am not sure why you would ask people to name the people they feel OK about. I would like to hear more from BR, but what I have heard was OK.

But I feel OK about Llama, actually; he & I disagree, but everything he did was in character. I feel OK about boo. I feel better about FZ than I did. So far so good on Matahari. I feel pretty OK about Zomba. Bea I am not sure about. MM pinged me early, with the little fit he pitched, and has been being way nice to me since. Hrm.

No real read on Boom, or Bass. Zeek seems a tad pissy about being quesitoned. I have no clue what TH is up to, but it's funny. Snowman is a blank; the case against him was weak, but the fact that his wife thinks he's bad, and his reaction to her post, is making me rethink that. I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. I want to trust DH, but the last game is too close. I wish Russ would post more.

I am a bit leery of Eloh, but only a tiny bit. That comment about not saying baddies/civvies pinged me a bit, but her explanation went most of the way towards settling that. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I am trying to listen to the small voice, rather than all the big "personalities" monopolizing the thread.

What question about boo? I might have missed it in this thread.

Linki @ Mata