The Syndicate

Outting is a word, phone.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:29 am I guess the question is if we should ever be wagoning outside camilla and jack today

I think the answer is no

If pyxxy/roxy/myself are wagoned and claim doc then we're back to voting in camilla/jack except this time the doc is exposed

That’s fair, actually.

We may have a better chance of putting the doc than yeeting the wolf, painful as it is to walk into what I think is a misyeet.

This isn’t that hard. Fuck your tunnel. Actually play out the scenario.

Game theory makes you look smart. You’ll love it.

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:25 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:23 am

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:22 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:19 am > What wolf Jack would actually do) Pretebd to be tunneled on you.

I agree with this. It is why I decided against voting Jack. I thought to myself what would wolf Jack never do and unvoting Camilla is one of them. He can never win with Camilla alive, never.

I just iso'd pyxxy and found him town. Roxy would have just taken the free Cam -> Jack misexes probably.

So for me it was just Camilla left. And the best defense she had is that she has no path to victory if mafia. That's something that could, I guess, happen if she really is mafia and got boxed in.

If I'm missing something... you have 30 minutes to convince me otherwise, and that's mostly because I'm having trouble sleeping lok

Jack can't afford to pull this tunnel shit because I'm a villager.

He needs at least one more player to ML to fulfill his wincon.

W!Jack is never making out of this thunderdome alive so he needs to ideally mislynch a third party before killing me, and that's Roxy.

But why BEFORE you?

Why not yeet you now and “reevaluate” in F3?

Because do you seriously believe that you can get away in an F3 after a flipped villager was screaming their head off to kill you?

Absolutely nonsense.

It’s not about how easily I can yeet you and then yeet someone else.

It’s about if that’s the easiest path for wolf Jack or not. It is. The path you keep saying I’m taking as a wolf is fucking hard mode.

Assume we misyeet Camilla today. Assume Jack is the wolf. Three paths

1) No kill. Doc claims and claims they’re target. 4 players remaining. 2 are cleared. Only options are to yeet Jack of the remaining uncleared townie. Jack and the remaining uncleared townie now have “red peeks” on each other. Tunnel on Camilla does not hurt Jack because he has a “red peek” and of course he can believably shift to pushing his “red peek.”

2) Vanilla townie killed. Doc claims. Same as above. Poe of 2, who both have “red peeks” on each other. Again, the Camilla/Jack thunderdome at F5 does nothing to wolf Jack’s ability to push town in F3.

3) Doctor flips. Townie vs townie vs Jack. Jack is pretending to be town and town Jack knows one of the other two players is a wolf. He doesn’t have a red peek but again, wolf Jack can believably case and vote for another player because that’s what town Jack would have to do.

You keep making these assertions that don’t make sense, Camilla. Please please actually look at how these scenarios play out instead of throwing out “Jack is always a wolf because X” when X doesn’t actually make sense.

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:22 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:19 am > What wolf Jack would actually do) Pretebd to be tunneled on you.

I agree with this. It is why I decided against voting Jack. I thought to myself what would wolf Jack never do and unvoting Camilla is one of them. He can never win with Camilla alive, never.

I just iso'd pyxxy and found him town. Roxy would have just taken the free Cam -> Jack misexes probably.

So for me it was just Camilla left. And the best defense she had is that she has no path to victory if mafia. That's something that could, I guess, happen if she really is mafia and got boxed in.

If I'm missing something... you have 30 minutes to convince me otherwise, and that's mostly because I'm having trouble sleeping lok

Jack can't afford to pull this tunnel shit because I'm a villager.

He needs at least one more player to ML to fulfill his wincon.

W!Jack is never making out of this thunderdome alive so he needs to ideally mislynch a third party before killing me, and that's Roxy.

But why BEFORE you?

Why not yeet you now and “reevaluate” in F3?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:19 am > What wolf Jack would actually do) Pretebd to be tunneled on you.

I agree with this. It is why I decided against voting Jack. I thought to myself what would wolf Jack never do and unvoting Camilla is one of them. He can never win with Camilla alive, never.

I just iso'd pyxxy and found him town. Roxy would have just taken the free Cam -> Jack misexes probably.

So for me it was just Camilla left. And the best defense she had is that she has no path to victory if mafia. That's something that could, I guess, happen if she really is mafia and got boxed in.

If I'm missing something... you have 30 minutes to convince me otherwise, and that's mostly because I'm having trouble sleeping lok

I assume if I go, Camilla goes tomorrow.

If Camilla goes and flips town, who is your gth wolf?

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:19 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:13 am

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:05 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:53 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:46 am

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:42 am Ridiculous how Jack is trying to blatantly widen the PoE with the "maaaaaaybe Camilla's town and Roxy's kinda wolfing" but you all are falling for his bullshit.

I think you’re town. I know I’m town.

What should t!Jack be doing instead of looking at the other players?

It’s super frustrating continually watching you look at a situation like

Jack: 1+1 = 2
Camilla: Wolf Jack would totally do this!
Jack: But wouldn’t town Jack also do this?

Granted, this is part of why I’m thinking your town. Like…maybe this is exactly the act I would put on if I was a wolf in your shoes but…I just don’t think it’s an act. I think you really think it’s just always me. And I get it! I also have a hard time seeing a world where there’s a wolf in Roxy/Pyxxy/Alison. In your shoes, I would suspect me just as in my shoes, I’ve suspected you. Frustrating as it is, I think it’s real. When I go “Player X is being sooooo frustrating. Why won’t they see things from my perspective?” they’re town 9 times out of 10.

Fmpov, I not only have to find the wolf but I have to convince players who want to shrug vote you of the real wolf and convince you of the real wolf and it’s not happening. I haven’t even completed step 1 and I have no faith in my ability to complete those other steps. I should probably ignore step 3 for now but here we are. Cause I’m strongly feeling that when we misyeet in Camilla/Jack, we misyeet the other tomorrow ftl.

So here's how I'm seeing shit.

You're fully aware that if I get miselim'd here then you know that you'll be elim'd tomorrow, and there's nothing that you can do to change that.

So ideal play for W!You is for you to lynch someone outside of me/you so you can thunderdome me tomorrow and win because the village play in this match has simply been absolute garbage where we've been going from LHF to LHF because Wilgy/you were not playing the damn game until like mid-game and they'll eat up whatever you post easily tomorrow.

I don't see why the hell you suddenly had this change of heart going "Oh, Camilla's a villager so let's wagon Roxy" as it feels like you're going after the path of least resistance being that Alison is unlynchable and she's also hard-shielding Pyxxy, so the only path you have to victory is me/Roxy.

Obviously if Roxy is mislynched today then tomorrow odds are that the person in Pyxxy/Alison that remains alive will vote me without hesitation, giving you the win.

Why aren't you challenging Alison's read of Pyxxy here? Why is it the easiest answer that you're going after?

Why does wolf Jack want to go outside Camilla/Jack today and into Camilla/Jack tomorrow instead of the other way around? Play it out. And please please please please please actually answer me, here. Please. I’m begging.

Your proposal) I have to wolf case a townie today, drawing their scumread on me. I now have 2 out of 5 players almost certain to vote me. If I’m convincing and get that misyeet, I go into F3 looking entirely responsible for the misyeet at F5 AND I still have you voting me and suspecting me out the gate in F3.

What wolf Jack would actually do) Pretebd to be tunneled on you. Yeet you, here. Much much easier than yeeting Alison/Pyxxy/Roxy. Does not earn me the ire of any remaining players. Then in F3, case a player. That player spends less time suspecting me and I get to say “Obviously, I’m a townie who really thought Camilla was a wolf. I didn’t plan for F3. I didn’t try to open the POE. Im town.”

Please please please please answer this. Why do you think I wolf me wouldn’t just yeet you today?

So how exactly did you go from "Camilla is locked wolf from interactions with Wilgy" to where you're at now?

How many times do I have to say please?

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:05 am Why aren't you challenging Alison's read of Pyxxy here? Why is it the easiest answer that you're going after?

Two reasons.

1) I haven’t reisoed Pyxxy. So what would I even challenge Alison on?

2) Pyxxy and Alison can’t both be wolves. So either
2a) Alison is a correct townie townreading Pyxxy
2b) Alison is a wolf “correctly townreading” Pyxxy
2c) Alison is an incorrect townie townreading wolf Pyxxy

2continuedlol) In two of those worlds, I don’t want to challenge that read because it’s correct. In the third world, the key to seeing the wolf is in Pyxxy’s iso, not Alison’s posts wrt it. So why would I give Alison grief? I’m only gonna find the wolf by looking at Pyxxy’s iso.

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:05 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:53 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:46 am

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:42 am Ridiculous how Jack is trying to blatantly widen the PoE with the "maaaaaaybe Camilla's town and Roxy's kinda wolfing" but you all are falling for his bullshit.

I think you’re town. I know I’m town.

What should t!Jack be doing instead of looking at the other players?

It’s super frustrating continually watching you look at a situation like

Jack: 1+1 = 2
Camilla: Wolf Jack would totally do this!
Jack: But wouldn’t town Jack also do this?

Granted, this is part of why I’m thinking your town. Like…maybe this is exactly the act I would put on if I was a wolf in your shoes but…I just don’t think it’s an act. I think you really think it’s just always me. And I get it! I also have a hard time seeing a world where there’s a wolf in Roxy/Pyxxy/Alison. In your shoes, I would suspect me just as in my shoes, I’ve suspected you. Frustrating as it is, I think it’s real. When I go “Player X is being sooooo frustrating. Why won’t they see things from my perspective?” they’re town 9 times out of 10.

Fmpov, I not only have to find the wolf but I have to convince players who want to shrug vote you of the real wolf and convince you of the real wolf and it’s not happening. I haven’t even completed step 1 and I have no faith in my ability to complete those other steps. I should probably ignore step 3 for now but here we are. Cause I’m strongly feeling that when we misyeet in Camilla/Jack, we misyeet the other tomorrow ftl.

So here's how I'm seeing shit.

You're fully aware that if I get miselim'd here then you know that you'll be elim'd tomorrow, and there's nothing that you can do to change that.

So ideal play for W!You is for you to lynch someone outside of me/you so you can thunderdome me tomorrow and win because the village play in this match has simply been absolute garbage where we've been going from LHF to LHF because Wilgy/you were not playing the damn game until like mid-game and they'll eat up whatever you post easily tomorrow.

I don't see why the hell you suddenly had this change of heart going "Oh, Camilla's a villager so let's wagon Roxy" as it feels like you're going after the path of least resistance being that Alison is unlynchable and she's also hard-shielding Pyxxy, so the only path you have to victory is me/Roxy.

Obviously if Roxy is mislynched today then tomorrow odds are that the person in Pyxxy/Alison that remains alive will vote me without hesitation, giving you the win.

Why aren't you challenging Alison's read of Pyxxy here? Why is it the easiest answer that you're going after?

Why does wolf Jack want to go outside Camilla/Jack today and into Camilla/Jack tomorrow instead of the other way around? Play it out. And please please please please please actually answer me, here. Please. I’m begging.

Your proposal) I have to wolf case a townie today, drawing their scumread on me. I now have 2 out of 5 players almost certain to vote me. If I’m convincing and get that misyeet, I go into F3 looking entirely responsible for the misyeet at F5 AND I still have you voting me and suspecting me out the gate in F3.

What wolf Jack would actually do) Pretebd to be tunneled on you. Yeet you, here. Much much easier than yeeting Alison/Pyxxy/Roxy. Does not earn me the ire of any remaining players. Then in F3, case a player. That player spends less time suspecting me and I get to say “Obviously, I’m a townie who really thought Camilla was a wolf. I didn’t plan for F3. I didn’t try to open the POE. Im town.”

Please please please please answer this. Why do you think I wolf me wouldn’t just yeet you today?

Me: Maybe I’ll sheep Tutuu screaming it’s never Canilla or Alison. Anyway, continuing my Roxy iso.
Tutuu next to a Roxy post: IF FALCON IS TOWN, ALWAYS KILL SCOTTY! SCOTTY IS THE WOLF!!!
Me: *scrunched up face*

If I come out of these isos with townreads on everyone, I may compile a list of reads from dead townies and go with that.

Wouldn’t that be fookin wild?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:46 am

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:42 am Ridiculous how Jack is trying to blatantly widen the PoE with the "maaaaaaybe Camilla's town and Roxy's kinda wolfing" but you all are falling for his bullshit.

I think you’re town. I know I’m town.

What should t!Jack be doing instead of looking at the other players?

It’s super frustrating continually watching you look at a situation like

Jack: 1+1 = 2
Camilla: Wolf Jack would totally do this!
Jack: But wouldn’t town Jack also do this?

Granted, this is part of why I’m thinking your town. Like…maybe this is exactly the act I would put on if I was a wolf in your shoes but…I just don’t think it’s an act. I think you really think it’s just always me. And I get it! I also have a hard time seeing a world where there’s a wolf in Roxy/Pyxxy/Alison. In your shoes, I would suspect me just as in my shoes, I’ve suspected you. Frustrating as it is, I think it’s real. When I go “Player X is being sooooo frustrating. Why won’t they see things from my perspective?” they’re town 9 times out of 10.

Fmpov, I not only have to find the wolf but I have to convince players who want to shrug vote you of the real wolf and convince you of the real wolf and it’s not happening. I haven’t even completed step 1 and I have no faith in my ability to complete those other steps. I should probably ignore step 3 for now but here we are. Cause I’m strongly feeling that when we misyeet in Camilla/Jack, we misyeet the other tomorrow ftl.

Camilla wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:42 am Ridiculous how Jack is trying to blatantly widen the PoE with the "maaaaaaybe Camilla's town and Roxy's kinda wolfing" but you all are falling for his bullshit.

I think you’re town. I know I’m town.

What should t!Jack be doing instead of looking at the other players?

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:04 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:32 am I'm tired and sick and distracted for IRL reasons so I won't post by post react but my general sentiment upon reading is that people are putting on tinfoil hats way too quickly after a d1 pelt

Porscha was caught early and went down without a fight. She complained about afks. The mafia team is prolly not in control and likely have at least one if not two passive players in it.

Everyone has different views on who to trust but thats fine. Just look at the people with no compelling reasons to trust them and play a straight poe game. Wagoning people like tutuu is trolling hard

If Porscha was complaining about afk or lhf then that, to me, almost spews them clear. She may have been complaining about afk's bc that would help clear their possible high posting partner. I am probs most in favor of voting Tutuu if I am being 100% honest.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:35 am I started off suspecting zenon but dont think shes the right kill d2, even if shes mafia shes townsiding right now and has a partner to be caught

roxy is bleeding town even if her reads/playstyle are questionable

This is a misclear of Wilgy. Put it on the pile of players that are town or unflipped who did this at one point or another.

Me sitting on fences because idk who the wolf is

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:42 pm

Zenon wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:40 pm

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:30 pm @zenon - I am sorry if anyone needs to *reset* their world view it would be you

My vote as of now will go to you or Tutuu

Why would I have to reset my world view

I know my alignment and I'm right about Tutuu the posting is so egregiously towny that I actually don't understand how anyone can sit here and try to push her in good faith

why would I reset my world view? I know my alignment and I helped elim a townie that others wanted to keep.

how can anyone sit here and try and push me in good faith?

If I thought slips existed…

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:31 pm Caught up - finally now I have to work - really work at work or my boss id=s gonna mad come Monday.

NAI but lol relatable

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:30 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:48 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:46 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:44 pm I have not reviewed the linked game in detail but if it is true that Porscha is no longer volume polarized then it she is actually kind of scummy... the noise to signal ratio is really bad

it isn't my fault that half the people who signed up aren't playing and the other half are actually roleplaying the title of the game.

Who do you think is mafia?

I dont care if pyxxy dies the most but until wilgy / camilla / falcon make any real posts it's hard to sort the people who are posting

What if rule of three clears Camila here? Like 3/4ths joking.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:07 am

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 2:51 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 1:19 pm I see how it is. You guys hate clown husbandry more than you love finding wolves.

so no defense? If your are towniw plz fight

I feel like I say this kinda thing all the time to townies and to wolves as a townie but never to wolves as a wolf. I could but I don’t tend to ya know?

Not really the spot I was looking at. It’s just the top of the first (third) page of Roxy’s iso so it keeps staring me in the face.

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 2:51 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 1:19 pm I see how it is. You guys hate clown husbandry more than you love finding wolves.

so no defense? If your are towniw plz fight

I feel like I say this kinda thing all the time to townies and to wolves as a townie but never to wolves as a wolf. I could but I don’t tend to ya know?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:58 am I'm not sure how hard wolf Roxy would have felt forced to vote there... would she really have gotten flak if she'd voted pyxxy and he flipped green? I reckon in that scenario Zenon and tutuu would have taken most of the blame

Probably.

Which is why I think it’s relevant if wolf Roxy really really hates bussing cause that’s not a forced bus.

So much of D2 Roxy is defending against/pushing townies but I can’t really fault her for that cause like…she’s being pushed by a bunch of townies, many of whom didn’t vote for the wolf she just voted for. Looks kinda scummy but it’s totally consistent with the mindset town Roxy should have.

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:17 pm

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 11:18 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 11:08 am The rest of Roxy’s post have that snark that I remember being a part of her town meta.

I don’t rightly agree with her logic, but she has conviction. In some people I think this could be equated to flailing caught mafia but I am hesitant again. There could very well be mafia between tutuu/Camilla but at this point if that’s the case they’re deepwolfing.

I’m not as confident with my Roxy vote based on her pushback here. Will look at all options

Does she also act this way as mafia?

I don't think the conviction thing is that AI as it's easy for a wolf to fake conviction against their strongest pushers but this sort of sass tends to come from villagers more often than not.

going to be hard for you to use meta against me tbh I make a point to change a bit every game whether I town or bad.

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 11:02 am

Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 6:08 pm

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:08 pm not much time left Vote Porscha let's see what happens in a tie.

Kind of having mixed thoughts about this vote.

The good side of it is that it's kind of pointless for Roxy to vote here being that they had Pyxxy as a good alternative due to tutuu swapping to him unless we got w/w wagons d1.

Thing is by coloring Porscha red they basically already locked her reads in and with Porscha giving up that kind of meant that they had to vote her. End vote also felt fairly late-ish which kind of supports my bussing theory.

except I only vote once and always later. I never flip votes around.

I am the one who pointed out Porscha gave up ffs. Zenon and Tutuu tried to rally for Porscha but it never swayed me.

I don't *have* to do anything. My game style is I do wtf I want

Here’s kinda an emblematic post of what I’m looking at.

I think it’s kinda funny that I say hee ho enough that my phone doesn’t autocorrect a mistyped hee to a correct her.

Looking at Roxy eod1 and sod2 atm.

Hee eod1 involves her tying the vote between Porscha and Pyxxy and pinging all non voters and off wagon voters. She’s consistently been down or Porscha but she’s not burying her.

Her sod2 is a lot of fighting with Zeneon, Tutuu and Camilla, pointing out that she voted for Porscha and was never convinced by her while calling that group scum w/Porscha.

I can see potential there.

@Roxy can you pull up examples of your “I never bud as a wolf” meta?

Cause I’m seeing what certainly isn’t a bad wolf strategy but it’s also undeniably choosing to bus as Pyxxy is ahead of Porscha and there are a lot of off wagon or unplaced votes.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:53 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:52 am Overall iso looks pretty clean. Doesn't have a perfect track record of pushing on wolves but nobody in this game has and I had similar reads D3 myself. Has been pushed by wolves and pushed them in ways that don't look like theater. Some micro interactions that I'm skeptical most wolves think to fake. Seems to be playing nonsensically D4 if he is partners with Wilgy.

Pretty confident Wilgy is town.

Uhh, pretty confident pyxxy* is town. :P

Thanks, Alison.

For the record legit thinking everyone left in a game is town is one of my very favorite parts of mafia.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:49 pm I just don’t think Camilla is wolf me you know?

To win, she needs to yeet me first, then find the doc, then yeet someone else tomorrow. I don’t see her trying hard enough to do any of that.

And I’m painfully aware than “if not Camilla, who?” does not have a good answer. We got another 20 hours or so nbd.

I just don’t think Camilla is wolf me you know?

To win, she needs to yeet me first, then find the doc, then yeet someone else tomorrow. I don’t see her trying hard enough to do any of that.

I’m unvoting. I know I said I think Camilla’s doing what I would do as a wolf in her situation but I just don’t think this is it, either.

Camilla wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:26 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:08 pm Re: "why is Alison so uncertain at f5" it is harder to make the decision for me than it is for you. I've pretty clearly implied that Jack has been townier than Camilla today (and I think the last page or twi especially) but keep in mind that just sod2 I had camilla as a top townread and jack as poe and possibly partnered with wilgy.

I want to get it right at f5 too. I am cognizant of the possibility I am being snowed and it worries me that Roxy seems to be trying to set up Camilla -> Alison chain exes because I keep going back to the possibility she is the wolf fucking with us.

There is a 90-95% chance its just jack or camilla - and yes I do lean towards voting camilla right now - but the 5-10% worries me which is why I am taking my time.

Also if Roxy is a wolf then why doesn’t she just take the easy Jack/Camilla elims and instead tries to push the elim onto you?

Valid.

I should become a motivational speaker.

I know this is apathy mafia and from town yous’s perspective, the wolf is almost always in Camilla/Jack so it’s super tempting to just shrug and let things happen.

But a wolf in @Alison @Roxy @pyxxy would hide behind that idea. So just in case I/Camilla flips town today, please put in some effort. Don’t let the real wolf point to you tomorrow and say “they coasted in F5 because they’re a wolf who was happy with a T/T thunderdome.”

Plus like…even if the wolf is in Camilla/me (which it probably is), you can put in the work now and get the right answer now and win now and look super smart and good at mafia for winning in F5 instead of F3. You want to look super smart and good at mafia, right?

In wolf Camilla worlds, I hope wolf Camilla finds this all really funny cause if I was a wolf and a townie said this to me, I’d just die laughing.

Camilla wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:55 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:46 pm Like I have genuinely tried to consider worlds where Camilla is town. If I’m wrong and she’s a townie, I have tried over and over to get there and I just can’t. The wolf outplayed you. The wolf outplayed me. But I’m trying. I really am. I’m looking at every angle. I’m trying to see if I’ve been pocketed by my townreads. I’m isoing everyone. And I’m explaining to you why your reasons for suspecting me are wrong, Camilla. And I’m trying to not just shoot back like “oh you saying you think X is outting.” Kinda failing at that.

Like if I’m right and you’re the wolf, the game is already won. Nothing done now matters. Even if you yeet me today, 99% chance you get eliminated tomorrow. GG. So I’m trying to focus on possibilities where I’m wrong. And I would hope that town Camilla would be doing that too. But you’re not.

I’m seeing continued pushing on me that looks dishonest. And I think it comes from a wolf, I think you don’t really think those things. But if you do, we’re in bad shape and we need to do something about it and you continually pushing on me this way is keeping both of us from reevaluating.

This is silly to even say. You’re probably a wolf and if you’re not, you’re probably too tunneled and if you’re not, you probably still don’t find something I don’t after I iso everyone. I just feel bad. Like if I’m wrong, you’re having a really really bad time and it’s my fault and I want you to know I really am doing my best, here.

If we’re both villagers then who’s the last wolf? I struggle hard to ever see this world.

I can’t see a world where you’re just not it as I struggle to see a world where either Alison/Roxy/Pyxxy are wolves and you do too but you keep waffling between your conviction here.

If you actually believed I was a wolf then you wouldn’t be this concerned about the what-if if the game continues as if I’m a wolf then the game just ends.

On the contrary. If I’m a wolf, I want all focus on this thunderdome. I want to play the part of “town Jack who is incorrectly tunneled on town Camilla and who doesn’t have a plan for if Camilla is town because why would he? He’s just a townie.” And then after you flip, I’m demoralized and oh it just looks so townie and then I iso someone at F3 and what do you know? Look at all this wolfy stuff. I feel so bad for Camilla but I really and truly was just tunneled. Now I’ve found the REAL wolf and maybe that convinces the other townie and that’s how wolf Jack wins.

But that’s not what I’m doing. Because as much as I do believe you’re the wolf, I don’t know you’re the wolf. I can be wrong. I’ve yeeted a dozen or more townies that I was just certain were wolves. I’m jokingly arrogant but I don’t actually think I’m so good at this game that I have the solve every time. So I think it’s you but I look at Alison anyway. And I’ll look at Roxy and Pyxxy anyway, too. Because I don’t know. I can’t know.

Wolf Jack doesn’t want to look at Alison today. If I make her look too bad or say something too dishonest, I threaten to turn Alison against me today. I get her thinking about how I’m trying to misyeet her. I put that idea in her head. Maybe i put that idea in the other townies’ heads, too. And if I don’t make her look bad enough? Then I’ve disassembled my only tool for misyeeting her tomorrow. If i iso hee and come back with town, how can i believably iso her tomorrow and get the opposite conclusion? The last thing wolf Jack wants to do is blow his load early and get yeeted for it. No, wolf Jack pretends to be that tunneled town Jack because wolf Jack wants to be able to put the best case forth possible in F3 without alienating that player in F5.

And I get that you’re sick and it’s not at all lost on me that that’s exactly what wolf you could be doing here.

But town you has gotta see that this ain’t it.

Like I have genuinely tried to consider worlds where Camilla is town. If I’m wrong and she’s a townie, I have tried over and over to get there and I just can’t. The wolf outplayed you. The wolf outplayed me. But I’m trying. I really am. I’m looking at every angle. I’m trying to see if I’ve been pocketed by my townreads. I’m isoing everyone. And I’m explaining to you why your reasons for suspecting me are wrong, Camilla. And I’m trying to not just shoot back like “oh you saying you think X is outting.” Kinda failing at that.

Like if I’m right and you’re the wolf, the game is already won. Nothing done now matters. Even if you yeet me today, 99% chance you get eliminated tomorrow. GG. So I’m trying to focus on possibilities where I’m wrong. And I would hope that town Camilla would be doing that too. But you’re not.

I’m seeing continued pushing on me that looks dishonest. And I think it comes from a wolf, I think you don’t really think those things. But if you do, we’re in bad shape and we need to do something about it and you continually pushing on me this way is keeping both of us from reevaluating.

This is silly to even say. You’re probably a wolf and if you’re not, you’re probably too tunneled and if you’re not, you probably still don’t find something I don’t after I iso everyone. I just feel bad. Like if I’m wrong, you’re having a really really bad time and it’s my fault and I want you to know I really am doing my best, here.

I’m not claiming because gametheory says not to claim.

Camilla flips wolf -> doesn’t matter if I claim or not
Camilla flips town -> much better that I haven’t claimed
I flip -> doesn’t matter if I claim or not

It doesn’t matter how little I think scenario 2 happens. There’s no scenario where me claiming helps.

If tomorrow happens and I’m still alive and the doctor hasn’t flipped, I claim first.

Wolf Jack doesn’t get this advantage of getting to choose who to go after tomorrow that Cam is claiming I’m trying to get.

I’m honestly sick of the dishonesty. I know this is mafia but come on.

Oh deadline is monday, not sunday. Phew. Good enough for now.

@Roxy there's Alison stuff above here that you were asking for.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:46 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:44 pm I have not reviewed the linked game in detail but if it is true that Porscha is no longer volume polarized then it she is actually kind of scummy... the noise to signal ratio is really bad

it isn't my fault that half the people who signed up aren't playing and the other half are actually roleplaying the title of the game.

I believe this is the post that Alison referenced twice as Porscha spewing her town.

Kinda buy it tbh.

Camilla better flip wolf or I'm so lost.

I guess this isn't too too far from "Camilla gives up atp."

Lol why am I the only one here?

Caught up on everything of Alison's I haven't read. I see no reason to vote for her over Camilla. It's probably just Camilla.

Which is like convenient because can you imagine trying to hot potato from Camilla/Jack over to Alison 10 min before EOD?

Alison wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:22 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 5:46 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 5:39 pm falcon and Wilgy/Jack is my solve probably.

do falcon and wilgy/prince j identify zenon as the cop?

i think that points to at least 1 of the mafia paying attention

Wilgy feels like he's paying attention. His responses have shown some attention to detail.

Also uncharitable towards Wilgy.

Overall Alison D2 rating: pretty good

Alison wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 5:39 pm [VOTE: falcon] aubergine

falcon and Wilgy/Jack is my solve probably. Would fit everything that's happened this game.

Don't really think last EOD was V/V, the sudden shift onto Rondo was weird (he was in POE so not a total flash wagon but it was odd that there was a sudden push there when most people were content to sit on falcon before)

Here's where she starts D3. Which is like....not voting for a wolf but also there's a wolf right there in her stated small POE.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:50 am I have actually kinda liked wilgys posting today it felt lonely

But we'll figure him out after the main poe i guess

I'm assuming at this point this doesn't really do anything to protect Wilgy and could easily just be town Alison having a thought that happens to be wrong. Worth noting anyhow.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:26 am

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:37 pm .......D1.......poll.......



.......atm.......my solve.......is.....................scotty+tutuu.......

..............I.......await.....................Scotty

What makes you think it's Scotty?

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:32 am I'm tired and sick and distracted for IRL reasons so I won't post by post react but my general sentiment upon reading is that people are putting on tinfoil hats way too quickly after a d1 pelt

Porscha was caught early and went down without a fight. She complained about afks. The mafia team is prolly not in control and likely have at least one if not two passive players in it.

Everyone has different views on who to trust but thats fine. Just look at the people with no compelling reasons to trust them and play a straight poe game. Wagoning people like tutuu is trolling hard

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:34 am Falcon and rondo have no reason to be trusted

Prince J has the "porscha would have pinged him to play in wolf chat" but maybe he was genuinely busy IRL and couldnt regardless

Just kill in one of these ig

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:35 am I started off suspecting zenon but dont think shes the right kill d2, even if shes mafia shes townsiding right now and has a partner to be caught

roxy is bleeding town even if her reads/playstyle are questionable

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:36 am It could be wilgy. Maybe he just didnt take credit for the bus because he was genuinely afk and didnt feel like playing

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:36 am I still think pyxxy is townie

This multipost is actually better understood all together, as it was posted in the thread and it looks good from that perspective instead of (accidentally) pretending that 3 townies list was bad cause Wilgy isn't in it when Alison then immediately calls out Wilgy.

It's also taking a suspected at the time player out of her POE.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:35 am I started off suspecting zenon but dont think shes the right kill d2, even if shes mafia shes townsiding right now and has a partner to be caught

roxy is bleeding town even if her reads/playstyle are questionable

I like this. It's correct.