The Syndicate

A soap box is like “Hi! So I think Epi is bad. Go town!”

A ghost writer can create a whole scene that appears in the host post...then again, that’s not as much of a thing since most host posts are pretty minimalistic around here.

I’ve seen ghost writers used to fake doctor saves or sew fear about a nonexistent cult.

I’m curious where [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] would place the following type roles.

Scum note passer
Town or scum soap box/ghost writer (like K2 with the later not having to be in “this is a letter from K2” form) when the power isn’t stated to be for sure a townie by the host
Town Freddy (Kruger, vig who only targets nonposters, essentially letting the town decide between replacement and modkill)

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:14 pm If I'm bringing back a dead civilian to replace in, I clear it with my mafia team(s) first.

This is probably a good compromise.

I tend to side with the “don’t let dead civvies return” for reasons Dunya laid out but I’m also less willing to modkill than I used to be.

I don’t suppose “have more replacements than inactive” is anything more than wishful thinking.

Soup kill reminds me of the parting kill in Assassins in the Palace. Have ya’ll played that?

Watcher also defeats the OP role mafia busdriver.

Agreed. Cop is more powerful the more vanilla the game and watcher more powerful the less vanilla the game.

Also agreed that jailkeeper is one of the next most powerful roles after cop and watcher.

I tend to place uncommon roles that are not easily eliminated like bulletproof (infinite vest) and stump high on the power list as well, probably higher than those 3 but it depends on the setup and is more player dependent. A bulletproof Jimmy will be far from a bulletproof Dom in terms of leading the town. A cop Jimmy may not be that much stronger than a cop Dom in terms of getting mod confirmed baddies. A bulletproof players is more useful with 5 killers running around than with 1. On some forums, bulletproof dons or serial killers are so common, surviving a kill is looked on as suspicious.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:33 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:57 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:15 am And while I agree that legacies aren’t always followed when they should be, that doesn’t apply to cops. People follow those clues, because they’re obvious and critical. There’s little or no need for interpretation.

I mean, MK just happened. It was very clear that I was either a cop or lie detector. I don't remember anyone following up on my reads to try to figure out my targets.

I think if you’d flipped fully we’d have seen more on that front. Some people need total confirmation.

There’s also the bit where later in the game, the active living players were nearly all mafia or independent.

Fair enough on the second point.

But on the first, aren't cops usually not going to flip based on common Syndicate rules?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:15 am And while I agree that legacies aren’t always followed when they should be, that doesn’t apply to cops. People follow those clues, because they’re obvious and critical. There’s little or no need for interpretation.

I mean, MK just happened. It was very clear that I was either a cop or lie detector. I don't remember anyone following up on my reads to try to figure out my targets.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:49 am Cop leaves breadcrumbs. Breadcrumbs catch baddies when cop is revealed. It's quite powerful. You have a good point on watcher though, but I thought a watcher generally saw who someone targeted, rather than who targeted them.

Townies don’t listen to legacy reads or look for breadcrumbs. They should but they don’t.

I’m going to speak tonight in defense of the Watcher role, which I perceive as significantly better than the cop role.

Cop role allows you a roughly 1/3rd to 1/4th chance of catching scum and alternatively confirming a civvy each night. HOWEVER in setups without info dumping, this is significantly weakened.

In the case of baddies with good cases on them, they’d have been caught anyway. In the case of baddies with little in thread reason to suspect them, the cop risks failing to actually get the baddie they know lynched. Same goes for defending townies you find. See: MK for an example of a cop (Jack) failing to get a low posting scum player (Simon) lynched and the town not picking up on a confirmed town low poster (Dom).

If claiming is allowed, the cop is still significantly weakened by roles like misdirector, commander, bus driver, miller and godfather. There’s also the possibility of being naive/paranoid/reverse/random.

So to summarize, you have to pick out a baddie and be able to get them lynched anyway to be a successful cop and the role itself has several hard counters and basically can’t be trusted after it is revealed.

That is, unless there is a watcher.

A watcher doesn’t have to guess who the scum is. They just have to guess what they’re going to do.

Player claims cop? Watch them and catch the scum misdirector.

Player gets confirmed town or claims doctor or vigilante? Watch them and catch the mafia hit man.

Supatownie leading the hunt? Watch them and catch the silencer or insanifier.

Player you found targeting X on Night 1 claims to have targeted Y on Night 1 several days later? Caught the liar.

Player you found targeting a player they don’t suspect on Night 2 later claims to be a blocker? Caught the liar.

When a cop catches mafia, there are a million excuses. Miller, misdirection, insanity. When a watcher catches a baddie, they’re more likely to make excuses that explain away the more common cop role. Additionally, getting multiple names on watch results allows you to potentially rule out misdirection. Ninja roles are generally rarer than godfathers.

All of this causes the mafia to not take obvious strong actions if they suspect a watcher exists. Claimed doctors cannot simply be killed. Claimed info gatherers cannot simply be misdirected. Known townies cannot simply be blocked, silenced or insanitied. The mere existence of a watcher strengthens all other townie roles.

In summary, watchers can catch baddies and confirm townies in more ways than a cop can without having to already know who is bad, watchers do not have nearly as many hard counters as cops and watchers strengthen all town roles by forcing suboptimal scum play.

Hands down, watcher is one of the most powerful town roles.