The Syndicate

*randed

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:31 pm So Speedchuck really did give Jack the Handsome Jack role. Like come the fuck on.

I’ve sanded two roles named “Jack” this year.

Sloonei’s kill and Mac advising it was good play. Sprityo’s targeting was good play, as were his instincts on Epi. The judge shot on Luna was good play.

Flavor was awesome and made me way to play Borderlands. Roles were fun. Thanks for hosting, Speed.

Part of why I didn’t feel that close to winning was because if anybody went back and looked, I think I was obviously teamed with Muugen based on our interactions. Especially next to my interactions with Luna.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:11 pm Hey Jackofhearts2005 why did you guys kill me the first night? I had intentionally not talked about who I suspected.

Idk. Muugen was worried about you and overwrote my kill. That’s one of the mistakes I was talking about. Not necessarily killing you but not being on the same page at all.

Muugen was suspect largely for making a bad case ON ME while I said I didn’t suspect him. If we had a plan, maybe that doesn’t happen. But we didn’t and that’s part of why I think the town earned the win, balance aside.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:01 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:48 pm I think the setup was townsided. Change my mind.

1) The town has an unmisdirectable, unblockable and above all unkillable doc who had the benefit of the net knowledge of all dead players. They know if scum fakeclaims a janitor role and will rarely protect a deepwolf. They get potential Leroy, acolyte, oracle and cop knowledge. Soupkill is the only answer the mafia has to this and it only works if the player the mafia wants gone has claimed.

2) The town had 4 killing roles, one of which can kill after death. The mafia has no vests, doctor, redirect or block to deal with these abilities.

3) The town has two roles that can confirm several players (cop and pope) and a player. The mafia has no cloak or redirect and the town has no millers or insane info gatherers. The existence of the acolyte meant the mafia will very rarely be able to claim cop so the cop’s word is basically impossible to fight.

4) The mafia’s main advantage is a lack of flips. However, the oracle and clown combo and vigilante basically remove this advantage altogether. Even if the vig and oracle go down early, the cop or the muse can provide “flips.”

That all said, the town absolutely outplayed the mafia and earned the win. The town made several good plays. The scum made several mistakes.

Also, I like soup combined with scum janitored kills as a mechanic because it encourages less than one townie to claim at a time and prevents the cop+doc combo.
Dead Mafia can block the angel protect once per game. Angel's do not block soupkill. Angel protect stops working once the game gets too small.

If you hadn't lost a scum to judge d1, Oracle and priest would have been feeding you info about the checks they were doing, negating some of that stuff.

Soupkill and witches curse were never used this game. Soupkill could be used every single night if you have any knowledge to nullify angel protect.

I have seen town do this before. I have also seen town kill themselves with a vig/dob combo and get souped to nothing on d3, with all three scum still alive

The setup might be slightly town sided, but it is more swingy than anything. The d1 scum death really started that swing.

And jack, you were one day away from winning. Might have if your dead teammates had blocked the night 3 angels.

Fair point on the angel block. But the mafia can’t coordinate with it. A one time strongman would be more balanced.

True. Learning who the cop targeted (which we wouldn’t have learned straight up anyway) doesn’t counter the cop. If we lose that role early, it strengthens the cop and if the cop goes early, it makes the scum player vanilla. Plus it does nothing to stop the muse. I like the concept of a wolf that learns what certain town roles target. Might use that type of role in one of my games.

Unless I misunderstand soupkill, it could only be used on Mac N2. I could have maybe guessed Epi’s role. With only 3 scum, betting one to try to get an extra kill is just too risky. I like the effect of it but it absolutely isn’t a counter to several town kills. Yeah, sometimes townies are stupid and kill themselves on anticlaim but that isn’t because the scumteam has power. If town loses because they didn’t read the rules or made bad gambits, I don’t think that says anything about balance.

I think the setup was townsided. Change my mind.

1) The town has an unmisdirectable, unblockable and above all unkillable doc who had the benefit of the net knowledge of all dead players. They know if scum fakeclaims a janitor role and will rarely protect a deepwolf. They get potential Leroy, acolyte, oracle and cop knowledge. Soupkill is the only answer the mafia has to this and it only works if the player the mafia wants gone has claimed.

2) The town had 4 killing roles, one of which can kill after death. The mafia has no vests, doctor, redirect or block to deal with these abilities.

3) The town has two roles that can confirm several players (cop and pope) and a player. The mafia has no cloak or redirect and the town has no millers or insane info gatherers. The existence of the acolyte meant the mafia will very rarely be able to claim cop so the cop’s word is basically impossible to fight.

4) The mafia’s main advantage is a lack of flips. However, the oracle and clown combo and vigilante basically remove this advantage altogether. Even if the vig and oracle go down early, the cop or the muse can provide “flips.”

That all said, the town absolutely outplayed the mafia and earned the win. The town made several good plays. The scum made several mistakes.

Also, I like soup combined with scum janitored kills as a mechanic because it encourages less than one townie to claim at a time and prevents the cop+doc combo.

What a butt whupping.

So it goes. Gl town.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:30 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:52 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:47 am Why would daisy get souped?
She’s claimed a targeting power.

Targeting powers are cop (claimed), oracle (claimed), vig (didn’t target), marter, clown. If either the marter or clown got nked and the mafia learned their role, then the mafia knows Daisy’s role. If not, they have a 50% guess.

So she’s in the same bucket you are. If she’s town, she dies tonight. If she’s not, she has explaining to do tomorrow.
She did?

No. I’m yanking your chain.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]
[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention]
[mention]Neverwhere[/mention]

This isn’t a hammer game. It’s maj at deadline.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:47 am Why would daisy get souped?

She’s claimed a targeting power.

Targeting powers are cop (claimed), oracle (claimed), vig (didn’t target), marter, clown. If either the marter or clown got nked and the mafia learned their role, then the mafia knows Daisy’s role. If not, they have a 50% guess.

So she’s in the same bucket you are. If she’s town, she dies tonight. If she’s not, she has explaining to do tomorrow.

Maybe I just let myself get lynched and hope the mafia guess a soup wrong. That’s certainly the path of least resistance.

Sprityo has...no posts containing the words Luna or Lunalee prior to her death.

Epi/Muugen compatibility is also fucking maybe.

For Luna, he declared one of her posts comes from a wolf but kept a wide POE and didn’t really go after her. Did he vote for her? Idk.

For Muugen, he declared him a civ at one point and said he slightly preferred lynching Muugen over Never or Daisy. Did he vote for Muugen or Sloonei?

Someone not on a phone iso Speed and Gimmie the vote counts.

Epi/Luna compatibility is like “fucking maybe.”

I guess it’s not actually shit to narrow the Poe in this way. I’ll just go find the mafia then.

This is such a shit situation. The best way for me to avoid my own game ending mislynch is to case Epi but I don’t know that it’s Epi.

The only mislynch we can actually afford is a claimed mislynch so we can lynch between Sprityo and Daisy and win regardless of their alignment. Daisy can’t be mafia without Sprityo being mafia. So we can only afford to mislynch Sprityo. If we lynch Sprityo, there’s no way to know if we lynched the cop or if we lynched one of two wolves because there’s no way the mafia doesn’t soupkill Mac regardless. Then we’re in the same spot we are today. It’s Jack or Epi or Sprityo+Daisy/Never.

So we might as well figure it out today.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:31 am I’d like to point out as well with only one mafia left we’re technically safe if we’re somehow wrong on jack, cause the soup is two guaranteed kills making it 3:1. 2:1 if they’re lucky.

But if they miss anything else they get revealed and lose

This is flat false.

If it’s just Epi, mislynching me results in the deaths of Jack, Sprityo, Mac, probably Daisy and then Epi has to guess what role Never or Nutella has ftw. That’s either real easy if he’s the witch that learns flip ids or really hard if he’s not.

If it’s you and Epi or you and Never (or you and Daisy, though I doubt that’s where we are), lynching me (or any unclaimed townie) is a town loss.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:25 am I don’t have a way to confirm epi, I just feel real good about him.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:17 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:15 am He’s not confirming Epi by night target. If he said yesterday “My POE going into N2 is Epi, Daisy, Never” and then on D3 he said “I copped Epi, Daisy, Never town” then yeah, he’d have to be lying.

It’s possible we have a Luna/Muugen/Epi team.
Okay hot shot go make a case against Epignosis. I'll wait.

POE.

He’s not confirming Epi by night target. If he said yesterday “My POE going into N2 is Epi, Daisy, Never” and then on D3 he said “I copped Epi, Daisy, Never town” then yeah, he’d have to be lying.

It’s possible we have a Luna/Muugen/Epi team.

EBWOP

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:29 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:37 pm daisy and neverwhere are hard cleared
epi, mac, and nutella are soft cleared
so that's where we're at
Jesus Christ. This is a shitshow regardless of if you’re telling the truth or not.

Let’s say you’re not. You’ve “cleared” the consensus POE where a second wolf surely lies. You’ve now set it up where I’m a very likely lynch. Soupkill 2 players and that’s game. Town won’t even know after my flip who was lying. And I’m pretty inclined to believe this is where we are because yesterday, you said your POE was Epi, Never, Daisy and today you cleared all of them. Two roles could out you but chances are both would be dead for you to pull this. If only one is, they fight it and if I’m lynched, there’s your necessary extra kill ftw and if you’re lynched, you still get an extra kill and narrow down the role list. Maybe enough to get a win. Maybe not.

Let’s say you are telling the truth. Copping Daisy and Never and getting no reds means there’s only one wolf left. So the wolves are Luna/Muugen/??? If you think the wolves both decided to hard distance from me (and not each other) in a game with no flips, I got a bridge I’m looking to sell.

The wolves probably get 3 kills tonight. We could confirm you but that would give a fourth kill and with my mislynch, that’s a loss anyway. The unclaimed players even discussing this draws a roadmap to the acolyte if they're still alive.

How is Epi confirmed?

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:37 pm daisy and neverwhere are hard cleared
epi, mac, and nutella are soft cleared
so that's where we're at

Jesus Christ. This is a shitshow regardless of if you’re telling the truth or not.

Let’s say you’re not. You’ve “cleared” the consensus POE where a second wolf surely lies. You’ve now set it up where I’m a very likely lynch. Soupkill 2 players and that’s game. Town won’t even know after my flip who was lying. And I’m pretty inclined to believe this is where we are because yesterday, you said your POE was Epi, Never, Daisy and today you cleared all of them. Two roles could put you but chances are both would be dead for you to pull this. If only one is, they fight it and if I’m lynched, there’s your necessary extra kill ftr and if you’re lynched, you still get an extra kill and narrow down the role list. Maybe enough to get a win. Maybe not.

Let’s say you are. Telling the truth. Copping Daisy and Never and getting no reds means there’s only one wolf left. So the wolves are Luna/Muugen/??? If you think the wolves both decided to hard distance from me (and not each other) in a game with no flips, I got a bridge I’m looking to sell.

The wolves probably get 3 kills tonight. We could confirm you but that would give a fourth kill and with my mislynch, that’s a loss anyway. The unclaimed players even discussing this draws a roadmap to the acolyte if they're still alive.

How is Epi confirmed?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:56 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:34 pm I lives!

Also I got no result sadly.
Too bad there wasn’t a plan to increase the chance you get results every night...

Right?

[mention]sprityo[/mention]

Worst cliffhanger ever.

7 players. If there are 2 wolves and today we get a mislynch and a true town claim or a good guess, we go into tonight with 4 vs 2, mafia soupkills 2 players and we open tomorrow at 2vs2 for an immediate scum win with no chance of doctor save.

So nobody gets away with “It’s Jack. Trust me.”

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:17 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:12 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:49 pm the only other people who couldve been the night kill target would be daisy or jack, so im gonna trust nutella's claim
You’re going to need to explain what exactly you’re accusing me of.
youre the last witch by process of elimination

Nonsense. There is no role that confirms like 5 players. We don’t even know there’s even a “last wolf.”

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:49 pm the only other people who couldve been the night kill target would be daisy or jack, so im gonna trust nutella's claim

You’re going to need to explain what exactly you’re accusing me of.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:34 pm I lives!

Also I got no result sadly.

Hye Hye, Mac

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:57 pm I suppose I should say goodbye

Bye bye Mac

Oh yeah me too.

Boy howdy I am a funny guy.

Full house. Somebody say something interesting.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention]
Can we just start D4 early?

Juliets could have been the marter, I suppose.

The Juliets kill is really odd. I suspected her until she died and I’ve found two posts that make her and Luna look teamed if I didn’t know better. She might have been onto something or hinted a power role. Will look into that.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:08 pm My "caught-up" opinions on everyone:

Spacedaisy - despite the "weird vibe" popular opinion on spacedaisy, I actually think she looks town. mechanics posts can be town, and I like that she wrote all that out while learning the roles (I will read it eventually, promise).
novaselinenever - I think nova is winning the "highest poster" award. His questions and interactions look town to me.
nutella - is trying to stay active (even while in Japan), and is voting me, so she's either town, or trying really hard to correct her scum meta of never suspecting me.
juliets - looks town (as always). She also paid a lot of attention to Daisy's "long" post, but I don't know if she actually read or responded to it.
Muriel - still absent?
jackofhearts2005 - is just casually throwing out opinions and suspects, but none of them feel serious yet.
sabie12 - looks like typical sabie, but also is "no u" voting suspecting mac
muugen - jumped in late and made a "catch-up" post which honestly just seems to parrot the opinions of the thread.
sprityo - is not quite ready to "supatown" or contribute too much yet.
Neverwhere - looks like they are struggling to find something to contribute while at the same time acknowledging they are not really contributing
Epignosis - lazy poster, and currently suspects juliets because she "looks like she did in Addams family mafia when she was scum"
Macdougall - in only three posts he both claims to not be a witch and know that nova is also not a witch, and shoo sabie off for questioning it.

Conclusion: [VOTE: lynch Macdougall] aubergine, [VOTE: Lunalee gets Butt Stallion!] aubergine (despite some of you looking town, I'd still rather have it)

Muugen is right there in the middle. If he was bad, this post points to a teammate in Epi, Sprityo, Never.

If he’s not, I still expect one baddie in there and the other is maybe Daisy. Cause I don’t suspect myself or Nutella at all and everyone else on the top half of the rainbow is dead.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:20 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:13 pm Did someone actually paid any attention to the kind of claim I suggested? I'm talking about a loophole to counter the no reveal at death on lynches.

Since this is a majority lynch setup, we decide when someone gets lynched by hammering. I suggested that that someone claims just before getting hammered, not as a plea to avoid the lynch but as giving info to the town.
I get you nova. I'll be sure to claim if you all decide to lynch me.

Technically, this wasn’t a lie.

Neverwhere wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:50 pm What the fuck is a coffee tell? I was literally trying to joke with mac. I had already stated I posted right after I woke up.

Also I'm not the only one who has called out daisy. She literally hasn't voted this entire game and we need majority votes for lynches.

I may be over compensating. I am pretty new to mafia, I had to drop out of my last two games and I struggled to contribute in those so now that I have time I am trying.

Coffee tell is the semiserious idea that a wolf does something suspicious and then tries to handwave it like “I haven’t had coffee yet.”

And your POE is X players.

Neverwhere wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:49 am What does POE mean btw?

Process of elimination. Remaining potential scum cause you trust everyone else. In a lot of games, you can tell “we have X lynches to get Y scum” so in that case, you form a POE that includes all scum and it’s fine if there are townies in there.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:14 am Or muugen was town in which case fml

The best thing about no flips is you don’t have moments where you’re so sure you caught scum and the flip town.

Lettuce also consider what are some oscar bait movies that are coming out this year?

Lettuce all ask ourselves “If Muugen was a wolf, who was teamed with him and Luna? If Muugen was town, who are the two remaining wolves?”

Lol classic.

Lol I believe in the coffee tell. Switching Never and Sloonei on my lists.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:09 am interesting

What is interesting?

My first 200 games or whatever were maj (with manual vote tallies and none of the MU software I love). I don’t know how I handled it.

[VOTE: Muugen] aubergine

It’s annoying that we can’t get a tie and see who reacts where since we don’t have enough votes to put two candidates in lynch position unless basically everyone votes for one of them, at which point, everyone’s cards are down andvtheres no reaction to be had.

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