The Syndicate

Post one last pic of your cat before you lynch me.

dunya has a cat?

[mention]Kylemii[/mention] [mention]Quin[/mention] [mention]nijuukyugou[/mention] [mention]Long Con[/mention] [mention]nutella[/mention] What do you guys think of Dunya's casebuilding? As good as mine? Better? Worse?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:22 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:17 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:03 pm I think you mean Maria Hill? Director of Shield?
Olympus Mons. You know what I meant.
I actually don't. Do you believe that space mountain secrets will make a significant difference in whatever plans we make moving forward?

No, I suppose not. But I'm not ready to assume victory.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:05 pm Do we believe Jay would try to actively lynch Eloh?

The case that Jay made on Eloh sucked, and was made to make her look better after his flip. The cases I made on Wilgy and Eloh were solid, and I didn't have a reason to distance in that way. I haven't been on the chopping block.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:03 pm I think you mean Maria Hill? Director of Shield?

Olympus Mons. You know what I meant.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:05 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:01 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:58 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:56 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:56 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:51 pm If I was scum, I'd be doing a bang-up job of it
dude I've said it before about dunya, but I think it's true about anyone, if the final baddie is anyone other than sig or nijuu then they've done a really great job.
If I was scum, Wilgy would still be alive.
no he wouldn't. Wilgy's participation levels have gone down considerably and that's saying a lot cos his contributions were not all out there in the first place. Great bussing opportunity. You yourself said you'd do it. Jay did it for TWO teammates. It's very likely.
I said I'd do it if I was going down early. Which has never happened to me. Look at my other scum games. I've never bussed my teammates under normal conditions.

And do you really think that the Wilgy/JJJ/Speedchuck mess on Day 3 was three scum?
Sloonei would slap you silly if he was alive.

linki: ohmigod Dunya
Do we believe Jay would try to actively lynch Eloh? When I built a case on her, they ignored it referencing how Jay tried to actively lynch her and I was tinfoiling hard. Well yeah he did. And yeah she was his scum mate.

Nothing is off limits this game. I can totally see you guys doing a ton of weird shit Day 3 onwards. That's when Jay knew it was going to happen, that's when shit began to hit the fan.

I mean, you can assume that I'm insane and that I wanted to be last scum standing in a game where town has a constant +1 vote. You can make that assumption. And you have.

I'm not even mad. I'm smiling right now. I'm amused. I can't fathom your thought process.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:02 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:58 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:56 pm again, if nijuu/sig are civ, it's definitely speed. in fact, I'm voting speed tomorrow either way. It would be nice to catch the last scum while we have two inactives we didn't kill out of POE.
Pls kill them first. Come on man. I feel like this is my best town game in ages, and I don't want to sit out the end because of your tinfoil.
I also find it incredulous how you never survive as townie. All the examples you linked me to: you got killed early. Not very telling of your "townie" game. Yesterday in pizza, you were killed early. All your mafia games? You're the last mafia member alive.

1. Don't even compare my game to Pizza mafia. I mean really.
2. I sucked in the early game this game.
3. Mafia has killed a grand total of 4 people. People that got Jay killed and town leaders. I would not be surprised if you or I were next.
4. I know. That's why this is a good town game.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:00 pm If Sig is civ then the only way for us to lose is for us to never lynch sig and somehow never lynch the mafia either until the game is only the civ sig and the last mafio and no one else.

*cough* mars hill shenanigans? *cough*

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:58 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:56 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:56 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:51 pm If I was scum, I'd be doing a bang-up job of it
dude I've said it before about dunya, but I think it's true about anyone, if the final baddie is anyone other than sig or nijuu then they've done a really great job.
If I was scum, Wilgy would still be alive.
no he wouldn't. Wilgy's participation levels have gone down considerably and that's saying a lot cos his contributions were not all out there in the first place. Great bussing opportunity. You yourself said you'd do it. Jay did it for TWO teammates. It's very likely.

I said I'd do it if I was going down early. Which has never happened to me. Look at my other scum games. I've never bussed my teammates under normal conditions.

And do you really think that the Wilgy/JJJ/Speedchuck mess on Day 3 was three scum?
Sloonei would slap you silly if he was alive.

linki: ohmigod Dunya

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:56 pm again, if nijuu/sig are civ, it's definitely speed. in fact, I'm voting speed tomorrow either way. It would be nice to catch the last scum while we have two inactives we didn't kill out of POE.

Pls kill them first. Come on man. I feel like this is my best town game in ages, and I don't want to sit out the end because of your tinfoil.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:56 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:51 pm If I was scum, I'd be doing a bang-up job of it
dude I've said it before about dunya, but I think it's true about anyone, if the final baddie is anyone other than sig or nijuu then they've done a really great job.

If I was scum, Wilgy would still be alive.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:51 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:51 pm If I was scum, I'd be doing a bang-up job of it
That's what Eloh said.

Yeah, but I'm proud god-tier scum. Eloh is humbler than I.

And Eloh didn't push for Wilgy and Eloh lynch.

If I was scum, I'd be doing a bang-up job of it

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:47 pm speedchuck is the active player I have the fewest reasons to see as civ or indie

really

REALLY

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:01 pm so basically, we've won the game. lol.

Maybe.

linki: that might be a possibility I guess

Entire ability, Dunya.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:54 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:39 am
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:31 am (but everyone thinks Everest is lame whereas I think Everest has the power to change a vote and I believe Everest was responsible for Day 1 no lynch -- so to devalue it is silly).
Well, in a sense, Everest itself has vanilla town value. When Everest dies, it's vote passes town to the next highest living mountain. So killing Everest is pointless. The vote will stay as long as town lives.

Which... raises some questions.
@Marmot
With town having an extra vote, will the game go to town if we get it down to 1 town 1 scum? Usually scum would overrun because they have a kill and the vote is deadlocked. But whatever townie is left would have 2 votes...
If the game gets to a state where there is only one possible outcome, the game will end immediately and the winner(s) declared.

The entire Everest ability passes down when it dies, not just the vote.

I could agree that LC and Quin are very, very likely town from those posts.

BTW we have three lynches left in this game, so long as we have a kill every single night. Come to think of it, if Everest's extra role passes down continually... is it possible for us to lose this game? 1 on 1, town v scum, town will win with the doublevote every time, right?
[mention]Marmot[/mention]

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:29 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:02 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:57 pm I would lie about that... the 'W' Wilgy thing, I mean. I would consider myself quite clever to try such a a thing if I thought of it.
I remember a game where you did something like that. What was it?
My memory of past games is hazy, it could be any game where I'm bad.

Ah. Page one of Blue Velvet mafia. You evil bastard.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:57 pm I would lie about that... the 'W' Wilgy thing, I mean. I would consider myself quite clever to try such a a thing if I thought of it.

I remember a game where you did something like that. What was it?

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:18 pm What do we have to prove DDL or Quin innocent?

Gut intuition and theories.

Sooooooooo [mention]dunya[/mention]

Why are you certain about kylemii and LC?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:56 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:53 pm Who would more likely be scum: Eloh or Wilgy (if we factor in both of them were targets of Jay ISOs) speedchuck
Wilgy.

But I was kinda possibly thinking they were scummates (don't laugh)

linki: Jay's earlier posts nudged towards Wilgy, criticized his lack of content, and bantered back and forth about meaningless suppositions of theoretical answers of questions. LEGACY JJJ shat Wilgy down with a firey vengeance, distancing hard.
Leaving the typo.

Leaving this here for you, Dunya. And for posterity.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:18 am I actually didn't like it much the first time you said it. Just a gut feeling like it's an impression a baddie might want to put out there. The impression that "I'm a Civ who's doing a lot of legwork, and I'm really disappointed that it turned out to not be helpful." You know what I mean?

I value my time.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:09 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:35 pm Well I wasted my day.
This is similar.

Good then?

Different reasons though. I worked hard to make a case on Eloh today when there was no reason to.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:18 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:41 pm ...

I may have wasted 45 minutes of effort making a case on Eloh.
That's the second time you have declared you wasted your time.

What was the first one? Wilgy? If so we're onto something.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:38 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:52 pm oh my god eloh that geode cake is gorgeous!!!
Thank you. I've been wanting to do one for a long while so I jumped at the chance.

Just want to let you all know I will be quiet the rest of the day. I think I played well. I don't think I look bad. New reasons for lynching me are based on JJJ and wilgy and how they interacted with me. I cannot give defense to that. I'm mentally exhausted. And, if late ISOs didn't help JJJ keep from getting lynched, they most definitely won't help me, so why waste my time. You all are making a mistake, but I still have faith that civs will prevail. I'll take the win with you as a deadie.

You did play a good game. If Wilgy and JJJ have implicitly doubleframed you through 10 layers of WIFOM (I'm not being sarcastic here, just honest) and we tricked ourselves through bias to lynch you, then we will avenge.

We will honestly appreciate any legacy reads, because if you are town then there is another active baddie.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:43 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:41 pm ...

I may have wasted 45 minutes of effort making a case on Eloh.
what do you mean? Did you find a reason why she's not mafia?

No.

But everyone was already voting there.

...

I may have wasted 45 minutes of effort making a case on Eloh.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:35 pm Now, if Eloh flips good, then I dunno. That's a problem for Future DDL.

What kind of problem?

In conclusion, for me, Eloh is bad based on team interactions. If she's town then I'll have to reevaluate.

I think Dunya is my top town read currently. If Eloh is scum, JJJ's move to Sprit from Eloh on D1 feels like a save. If Eloh is town, it still doesn't feel like a bus.

Dunya p. much town to me.

That was supposed to be a strikeout not an underline pls don't kill me.

I'm not going to be lazy. FOR K2 SLOONEI! *gets shot*

Summarizing JJJ's stuff on Eloh in a COMPLETELY BIASED way:

JJJ does a lot of questioning of people's reads on Eloh, in some cases forcing them to reevaluate their scumread of her, in others making them elaborate on their townread.
JJJ coaxes Eloh to talk more about her rainbow.
JJJ diverts to sprityo when suspixions start to fade on Eloh. Epi rightly calls this 'weak s**t'
JJJ hangs around the meta of people being scumread for suspecting or not suspecting Eloh, indirectly questioning some peeps.
JJJ asks Eloh to talk about more things.
With no leadup, JJJ GTH's Eloh as bad.
JJJ questions Eloh, saying he doesn't understand her posts.
JJJ finally makes a case "doubting the sincerity of Eloh," using arguments that would normally incriminate town Eloh as well. Her being "concerned with appearances," once again using the misguided notion that town doesn't care about preservation. Bad arguments. On purpose?
"Lack of clear progression" because inconsistency is a mafia thing, right?
What I see here is JJJ defending Eloh by making arguments that are classically bad arguments. He condemns her for a decent town meta, and then pesters other players to compare her to her town meta. It's a wiley defense disguised as suspicion! #totesbiasedhere
When asked in the middle of all this, he says that Eloh has looked like she's trying to solve things. ??? I thought he was scumreading her!

"Let's lynch Elohcin" he says, as soon as both town leaders turn on him.
He makes an even more pathetic case on Eloh, disagreeing that her town meta is her town meta while reinforcing the town meta. (for the record, Eloh has played a good game. It's close to her town meta. Meta can't solve everything.)
JJJ disclaimers his own case, weakens it, then sticks with it. Then he dies and leaves her and Wilgy both in a better spot.

linki: good god you people, shut up for a second and let me follow up.

JJJ's Eloh mentions (free of analysis, just for reference):

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:40 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:23 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:21 pm I don't like this sequence.
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:16 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 pm Sloonei
I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.
Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:43 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:30 pm I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.
I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.
Voting Eloh because he wants Epi's thoughts, that's all? But then he's willing to vote there immediately after taking his vote off? Smells off.
immediately? My vote has been off of Eloh for like 6 hours. I specifically wanted Epi's thoughts on my specific case against Elohcin. He shot it down. But she's still a suspect. I have no reason to remove her from the pool.
Is this to imply that you were not willing to vote for Elohcin immediately after the initial post in that progression?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:06 am I'm staring at Sloonei's ISO, and the worst I can say is that I am not experiencing the transparent civilian brotherhood that he and I often enjoy (most recently as Jerry and Steinbrenner). That's a high standard to ask anyone to meet though, and I am not especially alarmed by this content -- and there's plenty of it. I don't think his treatment of Elohcin was unreasonable, and I'll talk about that shortly.

What are the moments in his post history driving his present wagon?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:17 am Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

@Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:40 am
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:30 am So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?
Let's ask Sloonei:

Spoiler: show
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:25 pm Putting a vote on sprityo because I want to hear from him. I'm going out for a bit, will be back before the deadline.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:16 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 pm Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.
Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:43 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:30 pm I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.
I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:51 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:48 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:16 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:34 pm Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.
Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:43 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:30 pm I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.
I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.
Uh-huh.
You negated my BTSC theory, but I still see in-thread evidence that coild to against her. In the absence of strong suspects, I'm not eliminating her from suspicion.

In the absence of strong suspects, I can get behind the idea of lynchig a low poster.

It appears the influence Epi had over his vote switch relates to content separate from Elohcin's rainbow list -- instead it relates to the meta discussion pertaining to her behavior when she has BTSC. This strikes me as consistent with the notion that she could still warrant a vote given the other reasons Sloonei's stated suspicion exists.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:41 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:34 am I was swayed off the main point of my case on eloh ad cooled off on her in general, so I wanted to focus my attention on another suspect. I was never convinced that Elohcin should be read as town. She was just knocked down from my "top suspect" pedestal.
What do you think of sprityo in the immediate present?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:45 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:40 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:31 am I want to lynch sprityo. His refusal to acknowledge the suspicion of him (instead treating it as frivolous/without premise) and following take-the-ball-home pout looks fake.
That's weak shit for you. Nah.
It moves me more than these other wagons move me.

I don't agree with your take on the Sloonei/Elohcin dynamic. You mentioned before that you thought he was trying to take the easy route with you and nutella. Describe that to me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:24 am
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:28 am That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.
Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:17 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:09 pm
Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:04 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:26 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:46 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:05 pm I recall Epi once making the argument that Eloh is more invested in games when she has someone to talk to behind the scenes. In this game she's made multiple comments about the amount of effort she's been putting into getting caught up. Her tone in these posts has not been one of frustration or dejection, but instead she's seemed kind of gleeful about it, playing around and joking about her involvement. I like this attitude and approve of it in every way, which is why I feel dirty for turning it into a case against Eloh. If she is involved in BTSC, and has been since Day 1, then she's scum. And if this is the case and Epi's old argument is true, then her carefree attitude toward the avalanche of posts in this thread might be explained by her involvement with teammates behind the scenes. Or she's just having a jolly old time.
yeah I can see this. I feel like Eloh often gets mislynched for low activity, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is baddie eloh
I disagree. I don't think she gets mislynched for being a low poster. In fact, I don't think many people here do. I think she gets mislynched because she tends to say things that seem illogical, but I don't know that I could differentiate her baddie missteps from her civ missteps.

@Long Con I don't know if you ever answered my question, do you now hold the belief that the back and forth between you and Epi was a misunderstanding?

While I like Wilgy's recent activity, it's freaking me out a little bit. I don't recall him playing so straight forward a playstyle in... well, ever!
Epi, I appreciate your defense of me. I'd say that I read more than I skim. But I don't remember EVERYTHING I read or whi said what. This us why I try to post as I catch up. Even still....i feel like Inonly have time to answer what's asked of me and not enough time to form my own thoughts. That's why I did the rainbow list. I felt it would atnleast get my gut reads out there of who I feel I can trust. And Daisy is right, unfortunately. Even though I don't find my positions illogical, others often do. And this is why I am usually lynched.

Still reading...
This post makes me think Eloh is town. Would bad Eloh even bother with this mindset or pretending to have it? Probably not.

How to get mislynched chapter 4: Townread just about everybody
What mindset are you referring to exactly; what did Elohcin say here specifically which you feel is less/not applicable to a mafioso?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:33 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:50 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:24 am
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:28 am That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.
Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?
He threw out a case on Eloh, nobody followed out and somebody disagreed with it, he moved off Eloh but expressed he was still fine voting her. Similarly, his "I could end up on Epi." In my experience mafia often try to gain consensus on their votes and are less likely to stake bold voting positions.

(Keep in mind part of his defense was "this is normal play for me," but I've essentially never played with him before. I modded one game on another site that I think you ebbed up replacing him, I was only alive one cycle in Crossover (and maybe he was modding?), and CC123 is far from a normal game)
Describe the bold voting position that you feel is more likely to come from a civilian in this scenario. What does that look like?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:31 am
Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:46 amDaisy responds and he just drops it? This looks like something I would do if I were bad. Quin tries to get something on daisy. Can't. Gives up. And as he now feels daisy will not be taken to an easy lynch, he asks her opinion on sig. Which really, he should know her thoughts if he had been reading her posts. And if he hadn't, this only confirms his original "suspicion" of her is made up.

My top suspects for day 3 are quin and chuck so far.
Post is snipped for brevity, here's the whole thing

Elohcin, your grievance with Quin here is contingent upon his handling of Spacedaisy. Following the interaction Quin had with Sloonei that you discussed in this same post, Daisy's handling of sig (re: Jack) was the core of the dialogue. In that regard, it would seem to me that a focused question about sig to Spacedaisy makes plenty of sense. Indeed, the highlighted portion here is an assertion that Quin didn't actually read her posts because he asked about sig, but the exchange above this in the same post displays Quin talking about Spacedaisy's read on sig. Please talk about that.

Also please talk about this

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:48 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:47 pm ELOHCIN
KYLEMII
SPEEDCHUCK
QUIN
bad
good
bad
good

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:40 pm
Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:48 pm Wih mesk still not around, I'm thinking she is civ. She isn't new to mafia even though she is new here. I don't think she qould abandon a btsc team. Of course, I could be wrong. There is always a chance she and dunya are bad. I know I have said this before. And dunya kind of eased my mind about it, but think...mesk hasn't been back. She doesn't know that dunya is here. What is mesk was all alone in btsc and decides to justbleave and now she has a strong teammate but doesn't know it. Gah.... I'm so indecisive.
I don't understand the connection being drawn here. In a hypothetical scenario wherein Mesk is a mafioso who has gone AWOL on her team, potential teammates of hers within the dynamic you've drawn could then be anyone low in activity who existed in this game prior to dunya's arrival (including but not necessarily dunya herself). What is the special relevance of dunya to your read on Mesk?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:44 am In which I discuss concerns about the sincerity of Elohcin's posts

Spoiler: show
Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:34 pm Oh. My. Goodness. Reading this thread is like listening to my children bicker. I'm not done catching up, but I'm over it. This.post below is why I'm voting LC. He admits to making up a reason to accuse epi of being bad. This ia what mafia have to do to look like they are scum-hunting.

Long Con admitted to an underlying assumption in his accusation of Epignosis, but not to "making up a reason". The latter notion is silly.

Spoiler: show
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:42 pm I still feel like you were voting epi for a nonsense reason which is what mafia will do.

There's a disparity between vagueness and confidence here that doesn't work for me.

Spoiler: show
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:42 pm I think nutella is genuine as well. She seems to be trying to change up her game. I've been there before. I try to be different every game to keep people guessing but they still mostly guess I'm bad. Even though I think her posts are genuine thus far, that doesn't excuse her from veing bad imo. She may very well be.

Disclaimer is yuck.

Rainbow list looks almost randomized. Questions are addressed | in a limited capacity. The methodology is discussed, but not really the specific reads on specific players.

Spoiler: show
Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:45 pm Heck....epi makes anlot os sense. He was wrong about my skimming though. Yall expect too much out of me but you see....he doesn't even expect me to read the thread. Lets find some middle ground here. Anyway... sloonei probably thinks I'm an easy target. He knows that when I'm accused I tend to shut down and give up rather than fight.

Is this a thing that Sloonei knows?

Spoiler: show
Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:18 am My thoughts exactly! But...at least there hace been no night kills on top of the no lynches. Its like having a VERY long Day 1. But I think it's about time we get this party started and killing some bad guys. Hopefully I can catch up by the time day starts again.

This one is just a bit yikes at face value.

I'll offer this as a counter-example wherein the tone reads more sincerely. I appreciate anyone making and effort to dip their toes into the analytic realm. Elohcin, what inspired (hi Quin) you to give this a try this time?

VultureGate -- the subject of a lengthy exchange between Elohcin and Jack. Elohcin later clarified that her focus here was on LC's desire to lynch Epignosis. That doesn't mesh with the "I agree with this" given in response to DDL's initial vultures comment, which referred to some undefined plural set of players.

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Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:29 am
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:28 am I would like to think Mod Marmot wouldn't have replaced me into sprityo's role if there was a completely inactive scum team of 3. So I am ruling that possibility out completely from understanding what's been happening in the night phases. Is there a lurker/inactive amidst the scum team--more than likely. Are three users inactive? No.
This is so simple and makes so much sense. One of you talkers are definitely scum.
I don't think this follows from dunya's point unless a "talker" is defined to be literally anyone who has talked. The implication seems to be more in the direction of high-activity contributors. The confidence of this acceptance must also inherently hinge upon dunya being a civilian, which would be striking given the doubts expressed not long prior.

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Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:15 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:05 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:06 pm
JaggedJimmyJay - EGH
JJJ is never scum.
No, but really, I don't know what he'd be like as scum. If he's leading, and leading well, mafia will probably kill him and take care of things for us. If they start killing other leaders and JJJ takes control of the game, wipe him.
This is gross. All it is is an invitation for JJJ-less mafia to burn a lynch. Gross.
Yeah, shoot. Mafia ain't gonna take him out now. They know if they don't, you eventually will! I don't think this was a wise posy to make if you are civ, chuck.
The piggyback is yuck.

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Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:47 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:49 pm The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.
I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.
We're back to a willingness to lynch dunya. Changing one's mind is fine, but I don't see a clear progression here.

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Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:08 pm And before y'all ask...I didn't go with aloonei b/c epi has me not second guessing my read, but second guessing if I'm right because I don't know why he survived before.
Concerned with appearances.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:57 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:49 am Yes. I would lynch him. Hence my vote at this hour. I think he is doing busy work, not real work. His token look into Eloh doesn't help my opinion. She is always exhibiting the characteristics he is "penciling in" as bad (inconsistent, no clear progression). It doesn't help me work out who is bad. It looks like busy work.
The lack of a clear progression was one thing I brought up, specifically re: the dunya read. Do you think the concerns about face-value sincerity I discussed also reflect the Elohcin norm?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:16 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:13 am Do you think Eloh is trying to look like she's trying to solve anything?
Yes. She has compiled quite a few posts to this point, and the content therein in thicker than one might expect without checking. It isn't all confusion and catch-up frustration.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:25 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:23 am I think you're basically describing town Eloh behavior and calling it a case for her badness. Epi calls you out
Can you recall an example of a town Elohcin that fits the general description I provided in my post?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:46 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:40 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:40 am Another issue that bothers me about 3J is that he hasn't placed his vote on anybody.
This is indeed troubling.
Let's lynch Elohcin.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:49 am The primary defense I have seen fielded for Elohcin is "that's just how she is". I don't agree with that. I don't make these observations about her in every game. Hell, in many of her recent games she just hasn't made enough posts to facilitate (hi Quin) these observations.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:03 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:55 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:49 am The primary defense I have seen fielded for Elohcin is "that's just how she is". I don't agree with that. I don't make these observations about her in every game. Hell, in many of her recent games she just hasn't made enough posts to facilitate (hi Quin) these observations.
What does a civilian Elohcin look like?
The first thing that comes to mind is a willingness to throw a vote into a consensus without inserting analytic or intuitive effort into that. She often doesn't even play catch-up, but rather gives the thread the finger (especially when it's a highly-active game), and I think I've seen that from her more than once as a civilian.

This is about a read at face value of her sincerity. Any player, regardless of their "style" or "tendencies" is capable of seeming insincere in a game. I don't always have this perspective of Elohcin.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:15 am This strikes me as you are bad and circumstance is robbing you of people to accuse.
What does a civilian Elohcin look like?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:29 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:18 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:15 am Mountain Mafia [DAY 3]
k well there's shit all I can do about that beyond continuing to play the game.
Elohcin is low-hanging fruit and I didn't find your case against her to be tremendously convincing. She's said a few odd things, but I don't see your case moving in a meaningful direction. Just pointing out a few instances of said oddities. I didn't see you digging deep into her, or anybody else. It was another vomited read.
I'm not going to pretend my case was some home run. This isn't far from being the second week of Day 1. It's the material which has most triggered my suspicion to this point. I don't think any of the cases made in this thread to this point that I have seen have been tremendously convincing. Look at the tally right now. Are we on course to lynch someone based upon a thorough, convincing case?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:31 am To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?
I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:35 am
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:35 am
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:34 am come on LC (or kyle or quin or wilgy) join usss
I don't know the 3J case. I would rather CFD Eloh if my vote is to move.
Elohcin

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:37 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:34 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:31 am To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?
I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.
what are these tangible reasons
She provided a big post of non-reads which had mafia utility (appearance of contribution) but little civilian utility. She has numerous posts which do not promote a civilian-oriented pursuit of something; they just exist.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:39 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:37 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:31 am To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?
I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.
Bullshit. The latter has no content to compare.
That's the point. -1 is less than 0.

linki: I see a lot of you here. Feel free to respond to my reasons, or analyse this JJJ stuff [mention]Elohcin[/mention]
linki2: Oh don't you start this crap again

REASON NUMBER #2 FOR ELOHVOTE:

JJJ made a case on her.

JJJ isn't one to do things halfway. When he distances, he REALLY distances. Look at his condemnation of Wilgy. JJJ expected this to work, I believe. I completely believe he would have done the same to Eloh. And I believe he would have done the same to the lurkers. JJJ is hardcore.

I can't help but feel like Eloh and Wilgy were treated similarly by JJJ, but I can ISO JJJ and confirm. Maybe I'll get a reason number 3.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:34 pm
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:17 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:51 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:47 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:10 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:05 am @Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.
That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.
Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.
Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.
Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.
Still reading...
Interesting. This is based on what?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:44 pm Quick comment regarding the GTH exercise.

For everyokne that GTH'd me good. Why do you think I'm good? Under what scenarios do you find that I'm scummy? Would you say that you are mpre of a player that finds people innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

@elochin I'm still curious as to why you stated my comment about being able to read Daisy stuck out to you as scummy before my further explanation. What about that comment caused a scum read? Am I not allowed to be bad at reading someone?

@JoH, I'll get back to you. I've come to a point where I'm aware of my tunneling and I need to review others before I continue to bark at you. What I find interesting outside of our back and forth is your baddie read of me. What prompted this read exactly?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:58 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:54 pm I am currently debating a vote for either Eloh or Kyle. Somebody talk to me about these people.
Talk to me.

Something about Eloh had held me ealier. She had stated that my exclamation about not being able to read Daisy felt super scummy, but immediately backed off. I couldn't tell if what I was saying was an actual scum tell of hers that I triggered or if she was looking for things to call scummy and pulled the trigger too soon. Did you read this? I kimda forgot until now.

Kyle... Kyle. I haven't interacted with Kyle directly I dont think. What has you mumbling is name late at night?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:28 pm Elohcin -
Civ due to interactions with J3. While not a negative voting record I so far have had no harsh qualms with the results of her votes.
Bad due to interactions with me that I noticed earlier in the game. Eloh was playing catch up (like someone else who I won't mention) and had called me scummy for a single sentence regarding daisy. It stuck with me and still does.

Above is every post of Wilgy's that talks about Eloh.

REASON NUMBER #1 WHY I AM VOTING ELOH:

Look at this exchange. There has been only one meaningful interaction between the two all game. Eloh calls Wilgy scummy in a passive way. Apparently (I haven't ISO'd Eloh) she never came back and fleshed that out. Wilgy keeps bringing it up to keep the distance and include Eloh in his posts, but their interaction never goes anywhere.
Feels bad man.
Feels like distancing.
Feels awkward.
Feels like avoidance.
Feels like teammates.

Eloh, I'm voting you based on interactions with the scumfirms, even just from their side of things. I think you've played well this game, put in a lot of effort. I don't think I can narrow things down to POE yet, and I will never base an entire late game read on a D1 rainbow.

Even before Wilgy flipped, after I ISO'd him, I says to myself, I says "If wilgy is bad, Eloh is his teammate." When dunya tried to cinvince me to switch to Eloh, I said I was more sure on Wilgy but thought that Eloh and Wilgy were likely w/w, if Wilgy is scum. That still holds.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:14 am I think the sloon kill on this particular night should make you all reconsider lynching me. One of you said something like...eloh must be mafia "by process of elimination.". Are y'all really satisfied with that kind of lynch at this point? So...here we are... reasons for lynching eloh....
1) she is a busy gal and therefore does not participate intensely
2) her rainbow list on day one was odd
3) looking at the other players, she has to be bad by process of eliminatihon.

Seriously? You can't find anyone else with better reasons?

1) You have 202 posts. What are you talking about?
2) I don't care about your rainbow list.
3) Not really. POE implies townfirms or really, really strong townreads. I have 1 of those left alive, and I have me.

These are not the reasons that I was calling for your lynch.

I'm back. Anything new at all?

[mention]dunya[/mention] Thanks, pretty much better now.

I'm not catching up tonight. Too busy. Just so you all know.

If I die, do not waver. You are on a good track.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:39 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:55 am So here's the deal. I see some of you contributing this lynch to Sloonei. Nuh uh. I'm taking at least half-credit if it kills me. And it very well might. Thanks for following. It's the one read I've been confident with all game.

Now, as I said far beforethe deadline, I'm looking at Eloh as Wilgy teammate. Her interactions with wilgy in early game are short, read over them. When I went through Wilgy's ISO, I got the feeling that they were aligned. Highly recommend a lynch there tomorrow.

Then there's the fourth teammate. I have no frickin clue. It's not Sloonei, it's not me. I really doubt it's quin or Dunya. DDL actually seems most likely, ignoring my townread of him. Nutella, if it weren't for mechspec, would possibly be a candidate. And then, of course, Blooper and Sig.

I have 90% confidence that our two scum are in these five suspects. About 70% confidence that one of them is Elohcin. If I die tonight, take a good look there. If I don't die, I'll pester you all to make sure you do.
What about Kyle and Quin?

What about them?

I townread them. They aren't cleared, but I see no links to Wilgy or JJJ or strong reason to scumread them.

nevermind I think I misread some posts

So here's the deal. I see some of you contributing this lynch to Sloonei. Nuh uh. I'm taking at least half-credit if it kills me. And it very well might. Thanks for following. It's the one read I've been confident with all game.

Now, as I said far beforethe deadline, I'm looking at Eloh as Wilgy teammate. Her interactions with wilgy in early game are short, read over them. When I went through Wilgy's ISO, I got the feeling that they were aligned. Highly recommend a lynch there tomorrow.

Then there's the fourth teammate. I have no frickin clue. It's not Sloonei, it's not me. I really doubt it's quin or Dunya. DDL actually seems most likely, ignoring my townread of him. Nutella, if it weren't for mechspec, would possibly be a candidate. And then, of course, Blooper and Sig.

I have 90% confidence that our two scum are in these five suspects. About 70% confidence that one of them is Elohcin. If I die tonight, take a good look there. If I don't die, I'll pester you all to make sure you do.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:22 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:11 am Speed is looking supatown now

I like to believe mafia wouldn't let a CFD start on a third member of their faction when Jay and Wilgy were already leading the poll.
I can't recall what this refers to.

When Jay got lynched, Wilgy and I were on the table.

I gotta go. Lynch Wilgy or Eloh. Don't lynch K2. K thanks

The question is, do we think Wilgy would cast suspicion on himself?

If he's K2, I want no part of the lynch. Otherwise, I wanna cook his goose.

linki: [mention]Kylemii[/mention], nothing is gained by not answering questions. After you plagued Jack over it, I'd think it hypocritical for you not to answer LC.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:51 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:50 am
nutella wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:47 am do you guys really think K2 would never bring up their own name?? come on. of course he would try to blend his own identity into other suspects, and especially since he's only tagged on because he's part of the group of cbob's suspects (plus K2 has mentioned the others before and not wilgy). so yeah, wilgy as K2 is what I was seeing, and I believe probably what dunya was seeing. I didn't want to say it because he asked us specifically not to and because in general I have been trying not to explicitly name roles for people
I mean, I wouldn't do this. Even if I pretended that I wasn't K2, I wouldn't throw suspicion on myself. Got enough o' that, thankee very much.
Even if a civ had just died and you were listing people that civ suspected as people to look at? If you obviously left yourself out of a group you were part of, you'd just be outing yourself.

That's the idea, sort of. What would you be trying to accomplish with the role, hazelnut? "Yeah look at those people you suspect. Keep on keeping on." I'd be looking at hinting and pushing odd scumspects (though I do that anyway without a messenger role)

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:47 am do you guys really think K2 would never bring up their own name?? come on. of course he would try to blend his own identity into other suspects, and especially since he's only tagged on because he's part of the group of cbob's suspects (plus K2 has mentioned the others before and not wilgy). so yeah, wilgy as K2 is what I was seeing, and I believe probably what dunya was seeing. I didn't want to say it because he asked us specifically not to and because in general I have been trying not to explicitly name roles for people

I mean, I wouldn't do this. Even if I pretended that I wasn't K2, I wouldn't throw suspicion on myself. Got enough o' that, thankee very much.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:46 am hopped back over to the doctor.

Good to have you. So long as it doesn't cause a quinlynch.

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