The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:23 pm I have no interest in insulting you. I didn't even say that you did something stupid. There are civilian motives for watching Long Con. There are also mafia motives, and those stand out to me. Obviously if the red check alone were sufficient I wouldn't be having this conversation.

Chill beans.

Sorry. Got riled.

I recognize that there are mafia motives for watching Long Con as well. If I didn't know the mafia motives, I wouldn't have kept ???'s identity from the thread. I knew that when I started, but still felt it would be worthwhile and was the most sure place I could find concrete information.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:23 pm Are you assuming it's impossible that both quin and the other person were redirected?

Even if they were, Long Con ended up dead. That's the end result. So one of them killed him.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:16 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:02 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:56 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:03 am
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:34 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:19 am speedchuck's reaction to being red checked doesn't look great to me. Total, immediate rationality as he displayed is hard to believe. I'd expect at least some brief period of combat to stem from a false red check.
+1. Like he's calmly like "ah yep must've been a redirect" and then turning around and acting like his info thing with Quin/whomever is infallible.
I've already died once. I don't know what you guys expect from me here. If I had reacted with vitriol, you'd have been all over me. It would have been a waste of time when I could be solving the game.

On the contrary, you should check out my 3p/scum reaction when things go badly. Mountain Mafia? MK Mafia? Or you can look at GoC, where this exact game scenario (me defending Long Con after a slip and then getting pseudo-scumfirmed despite being town) came up.
this really doesn't address my point at all
What is your point, Nutella?
did you even read my post? I don't get why you're so confident that your watch thing could confirm anyone's alignment given that there are clearly lots of redirects in play in this game, which you should be very conscious of if you got false redchecked

I completely missed that in your post. I thought you were saying I was wasting my time dealing with info because I'm scum and nothing I say matters.

I'm a watcher, Nutella. I don't give a crap about redirects. I only see what ended up visiting Long Con. If Quin was redirected to Long Con, so be it. If I was redirected (the only thing that would make my results 'fallible'), it only raises more questions. Questions I'm happy to answer or look at.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:11 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:01 pm
poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:52 pm What made you think maf won't do anything to Timmer other than trying to kill him? They might still block or redirect him.
I don't know why you are sitting here criticizing my choice. Really feels like you're attacking my logic rather than my alignment.

There was a town kill night one even though Timmer was roleblocked. The whole vig game and mafia targeting game doesn't revolve around Timmer and those that visit Timmer. Long Con was an immediate interest and priority.
I harbor the same suspicion poutanko has voiced. Watching Long Con seems to bear more potential for mafia gains than civilian gains.

I'll tell you what I told her then. Shut up and lynch me. If the purpose of this observation is to validate a scumread on me, I don't want to hear it. I have a cop check over my head, and you don't need further justification.

So stop trying to shame me over my town play, which effing worked exactly as I wanted it to.

A quote from Insanity mafia, translated from morse code

i am getting really freaking tired of people, every game, saying i'm either scum or (stupid/inattentive/not trying). i can mark three times this has happened this year. since i'm town every time it happens, it comes off as an insult. i've never been told i was playing stupidly or ignorantly as scum. but here we are again, in the same position, with me being insulted for my crappy town play. maybe i should just replace out each time i roll town. have a 'screw it' meta.

I'm really, REALLY getting tired of this crap. It happens nearly every game. "You wouldn't do this as town because the smarter choice would be to do X, Y, or Z." Screw off. I will scumhunt how I want to scumhunt.

poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:09 pm I'm trying to understand your way of thinking. You don't seem to have any interest to find scums there. If someone block/redirect timmer instead of killing him, you'd still catch them. On the other hand if you're scum, watching LC is a good way to get 2nd vig if there's one and our RBer and why would you watch timmer if you know what will happen. You say I'm just criticizing your choice? Your logic is not town logic.

There are two ways to solve the game. Your misunderstanding regarding my method matches your misunderstanding of my "rainbow list" earlier.

I am trying to solve the game by POE, or Process of Elimination. That means getting as many townfirms and townreads as possible. As you can see from my earlier list, I basically have narrowed things down.

You are instead looking for scumreads or scumfirms. It's a lot more direct, but if you end up wrong, you have nothing to fall back on.

Different scumhunting philosophies.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:56 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:03 am
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:34 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:19 am speedchuck's reaction to being red checked doesn't look great to me. Total, immediate rationality as he displayed is hard to believe. I'd expect at least some brief period of combat to stem from a false red check.
+1. Like he's calmly like "ah yep must've been a redirect" and then turning around and acting like his info thing with Quin/whomever is infallible.
I've already died once. I don't know what you guys expect from me here. If I had reacted with vitriol, you'd have been all over me. It would have been a waste of time when I could be solving the game.

On the contrary, you should check out my 3p/scum reaction when things go badly. Mountain Mafia? MK Mafia? Or you can look at GoC, where this exact game scenario (me defending Long Con after a slip and then getting pseudo-scumfirmed despite being town) came up.
this really doesn't address my point at all

What is your point, Nutella?

poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:52 pm What made you think maf won't do anything to Timmer other than trying to kill him? They might still block or redirect him.

I don't know why you are sitting here criticizing my choice. Really feels like you're attacking my logic rather than my alignment.

There was a town kill night one even though Timmer was roleblocked. The whole vig game and mafia targeting game doesn't revolve around Timmer and those that visit Timmer. Long Con was an immediate interest and priority.

Why is everyone assuming that scum couldn't have a rez ability? It's a Hogwarts Ability. Not a Town-only ability.

I mean, I wouldn't give scum a rez ability unless the abilities were randomly assigned.

poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:39 pm I don't think you care about timmer. I think you're scum trying to find out if there's another vig and town RBer.

You're wrong, and I don't care what you think about my alignment. I already have a cop check on my head. I'm going to be lynched or vigged, and I'm going to flip town. There's no point in scumhunting me at this point, because my fate is sealed either way.

When I flip town, I want my findings to be used to win the game.

Regardless, I did watch Long Con to try and catch the Vig. I believed that was my best option, because I had no idea who the mafia would target with the nightkill.
"Of course they would target the vig, speed."
Why not the cop? Huh? Or whatever Epi was?

I made the right choice. I got some information. When I die, you had better pay attention to it.

poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:27 pm Watching Timmer might give you:
>those who kill/block/redirect him - scums
>those who protect him - town

Watching Long Con might give you:
>town vig
>fellow scum trying to protect him

Isn't it better to watch Timmer instead of LC?

Well, I was hoping to only get one of the two, and have an actual firm. Instead Timmer didn't visit and I got Quin and ??? with some kind of screwed up nonsense.

Maybe Timmer was another good option in theory. But then again, scum probably killed Epi last night, so I'm pretty glad I went for the target that actually died. I don't regret that decision.

What's your point?

poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:20 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:16 pm I watched Long Con because I knew something would happen there, and I could possibly get townfirms or scumfirms out of it. Vigs, protections, etc. It worked, sorta. Quin threw a wrench into things.
Isn't it the same if you choose to watch Timmer instead?

Watching people means you see who visits them. If I wanted to see where Timmer would go, I'd track him. (if I even had that ability)

And then I still wouldn't see if mafia tried to protect Long Con.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:15 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:11 pm Why would scum rez Nova, though?

I'm betting it was a one-shot pheonix thing.
Same reason they’d rez INH. Wastes a day or a vig shot.

That's a good point. Not like Nova needs to be active to waste town's time.

But yeah, it was a pheonix in the flavortext.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:14 pm Why did you watch the people that you watched, speedchuck?

Bullz watched you. I can't ask him why. Possibly because town Jay is a possible N1 mafia target. And technically you were! Not that I know what was done.

I watched Long Con because I knew something would happen there, and I could possibly get townfirms or scumfirms out of it. Vigs, protections, etc. It worked, sorta. Quin threw a wrench into things.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:09 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:29 am fyi INH could have been resurrected with the resurrection stone. If scum got possession of it then it effectively became a throwaway item they'd want to use straight away, since it's no use to them as all roles flip. No fuckery there.

Unless he was resurrected by town in which case admit yourself to St. Mungo's ASAP.
Resurrection stone doesn’t pure rez in the lore and this is the first rez.

We can assume the rez is a one shot or has some sort of major drawback. Otherwise, why didn’t scum rez previously? Even if they just got it, why didn’t town rez previously?

Why would scum rez Nova, though?

I'm betting it was a one-shot pheonix thing.

In the interest of sharing information, knowing full well that it makes me look worse:

I watched JJJ night one. Long Con visited. No idea why.
There was no night 2 action from Bullz.
Night three I saw Quin and ??? visit Long Con. ??? is probably the vig. Quin is a liar or was redirected.

poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:57 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:24 am Jay - town because he doesn't bus teammates in the same way he did INH
nutella - town because tone and meta and everything else basically
DH - Town because he is
Mac - Pisses me off. Town because tone. Mafia because upset with vig kills and promoting bogus theories. Waffles.
poutanko - Town because she is sweet and innocent and has good scum interactions and because no scum would fake a cop check right now right?
Quin - Possible liar, unless he was misdirected. Townread otherwise.
Colin - Town because cop check and I've been reading him town all game. Cares about the roof.
kara - Town because genuine emotion in early posts
Jack - Weakest townread for me, but seems genuine
Luna - Town because she's made way more mistakes than she does as scum
Sloonei - Was only town because lack of self-preservation. Long Con flip changes that. Fake, scum, blegh
sprityo - No reason to townread whatsoever
timmer - Still town yo
speed - No corruption, Rigged witch hunt (seriously vig me tonight so you can use my analysis and info)
INH - Scum

Guessing that there are at most 6 scum. Long Con, INH, Nova, Sloonei, and two of (Mac, Quin, Sprit)

Game solved.

I will quote this post before the end of each phase so it is relevant when I die.

This is why I don't care that much about the cop check. I'm on the verge of my first civilian win in ages. I contributed. I can use my death to catch scum by townfirming my viewpoint and my night info. Heck, I already got nightkilled by the mafia on night one, which is a badge of honor to be worn.

That said, just because I don't care about the cop check doesn't mean Mac and whoever posits that I'm too calm to be mafia aren't going to piss me off. What was I supposed to do, rant and scream at my computer when I saw the check? Call Poutanko scum even though that doesn't make any sense? My wife was in the next room, and I'm pretty sure that would be BTSC.
So many townread here

Process of elimination, yo. I'm not just reading, I'm game-solving.

Check this out

In this game, I went from "town-firm" to "scum-firm" due to a role flip. This is the page on which it happened. My reaction was pretty calm, all things considered.
Amusingly, I was being suspected for defending scum LC until death at the time. I need to stop doing that.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:27 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:25 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:24 am @JaggedJimmyJay

I just don’t think LC goes “Yeah, I saved Owner, who is my scum partner.” It reads like buddying.
Can you quote the LC post where he said that? Or are you referring to the action?
I’m refering to a specific post where Jimmy at mentioned me on the previous page.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:24 am @JaggedJimmyJay

I just don’t think LC goes “Yeah, I saved Owner, who is my scum partner.” It reads like buddying.

Can you quote the LC post where he said that? Or are you referring to the action?

[mention]poutanko[/mention] What did you check night 3?

Jay - town because he doesn't bus teammates in the same way he did INH
nutella - town because tone and meta and everything else basically
DH - Town because he is
Mac - Pisses me off. Town because tone. Mafia because upset with vig kills and promoting bogus theories. Waffles.
poutanko - Town because she is sweet and innocent and has good scum interactions and because no scum would fake a cop check right now right?
Quin - Possible liar, unless he was misdirected. Townread otherwise.
Colin - Town because cop check and I've been reading him town all game. Cares about the roof.
kara - Town because genuine emotion in early posts
Jack - Weakest townread for me, but seems genuine
Luna - Town because she's made way more mistakes than she does as scum
Sloonei - Was only town because lack of self-preservation. Long Con flip changes that. Fake, scum, blegh
sprityo - No reason to townread whatsoever
timmer - Still town yo
speed - No corruption, Rigged witch hunt (seriously vig me tonight so you can use my analysis and info)
INH - Scum

Guessing that there are at most 6 scum. Long Con, INH, Nova, Sloonei, and two of (Mac, Quin, Sprit)

Game solved.

I will quote this post before the end of each phase so it is relevant when I die.

This is why I don't care that much about the cop check. I'm on the verge of my first civilian win in ages. I contributed. I can use my death to catch scum by townfirming my viewpoint and my night info. Heck, I already got nightkilled by the mafia on night one, which is a badge of honor to be worn.

That said, just because I don't care about the cop check doesn't mean Mac and whoever posits that I'm too calm to be mafia aren't going to piss me off. What was I supposed to do, rant and scream at my computer when I saw the check? Call Poutanko scum even though that doesn't make any sense? My wife was in the next room, and I'm pretty sure that would be BTSC.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:15 am I totally agree with Jay's statement about speed's reaction to a red check. I think most people would be reacting with more emotion.

Cop checks I get. Can't be helped, fate is sealed, no reason to get all hot. But this line of reasoning is stupid.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:54 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:19 am speedchuck's reaction to being red checked doesn't look great to me. Total, immediate rationality as he displayed is hard to believe. I'd expect at least some brief period of combat to stem from a false red check.
Agreed. Dumbish comparison but it reminds me of One Hour Werewolf where Speed knew he’d been found out and started maneuvering around it.

Oh I didn't think of that game. That's pretty fair actually. My poker face is pretty fantastic.

As town or scum.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:46 am
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:05 am Hey yall remember that time LC saved Owner and then defended her a bunch and also said Sloonei townslipped lol good times amirite.
We can only lynch one person at a time DH, but believe you me, I got bad desires.

The main reason I was townreading Owner was her lack of self-preservation.

Long Con saved her. Good feeling gone.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:34 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:19 am speedchuck's reaction to being red checked doesn't look great to me. Total, immediate rationality as he displayed is hard to believe. I'd expect at least some brief period of combat to stem from a false red check.
+1. Like he's calmly like "ah yep must've been a redirect" and then turning around and acting like his info thing with Quin/whomever is infallible.

I've already died once. I don't know what you guys expect from me here. If I had reacted with vitriol, you'd have been all over me. It would have been a waste of time when I could be solving the game.

On the contrary, you should check out my 3p/scum reaction when things go badly. Mountain Mafia? MK Mafia? Or you can look at GoC, where this exact game scenario (me defending Long Con after a slip and then getting pseudo-scumfirmed despite being town) came up.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:13 am It could be a civ vig. I only protected against Dark Arts.

Oh? Not just negative abilities?

...

Okay.

I'm curious as to how you were misdirected without dark arts involved, but I'll leave the other person as a townfirm for now.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:23 am Hallows wouldn't thematically explain it, and there aren't any civilian secrets. That leaves three explanations afaik.

1. I'm a dirty rotten liar and deep down I know I deserve to be punished.
2. speedchuck is a dirty rotten liar and deep down he knows he deserves to be punished.
3. There's a redirection hidden behind the secrets of the mafia team.

I'm leaning #2.

If number 3 is true, then it's probable that scum killed scum (Because of your power, it couldn't be a civ vig, so that leaves room only for redirect screwery) and that would nail us a confirmed baddie.

So yeah, I might be holding onto a confirmed baddie. I want to figure that out before day end.

If we hash this out while I'm alive, then after I die, people will trust me in retrospect and have a scumfirm. Yeah?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:04 am Hey you know what would be cool would be if the fallback wagon was Sloonei and not Speedchuck.

That would be neat.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:51 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:35 pm And if Quin is lying there is no need to involve my other now-townfirm
Can you explain why this other person is a townfirm without revealing their identity?

Somebody killed Long Con. If you are lying, then they did it. If you aren't lying, something fish happened.

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:44 pm So you say Quin and a mystery person visited Long Con last night.

Quin says they used a protective item on themselves, me, and one other, thus are assuming that their action got redirected somehow.

Is this correct?

Yes

And if Quin is lying there is no need to involve my other now-townfirm

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:57 pm Only if you think there are two odd-night vigs.

Making assumptions ain't great.

But Yeah. Leaning toward revealing.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:45 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:44 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:43 pm Should I reveal who else targeted Long Con?
What is the pro-town rationale for disclosing it?
What's the downside?

Pro-Town: Could possibly either:

Townfirm Quin and ???
Prove Quin is lying and thus scum
Prove ??? went through Quin's patronum and thus is piercing or Avada Kedavra which I think confirms them as scum

Anti-town: Might reveal who the Vig is to the mafia

Should I reveal who else targeted Long Con?

Revealing everything might or might not be helpful TBH

I still haven't said who else visited LC.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:47 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:46 pm
Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:38 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:30 pm Pout is still good BTW. No way she fakes a cop on me.

I'll just solve the game right quick on Day 4 so I don't have to worry about anything afterward no problem at all.
Why is she good?
Because faking a cop would be outlandish and super risky.
Are you saying you're bad?

I'm saying she is in co rekt

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:38 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:30 pm Pout is still good BTW. No way she fakes a cop on me.

I'll just solve the game right quick on Day 4 so I don't have to worry about anything afterward no problem at all.
Why is she good?

Because faking a cop would be outlandish and super risky.

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:36 pm How did I not know poutanko had outed as a cop and pointed fingers at people?

It just happened, and she didn't say much except Bullz is bad, Colin is good, not a read.

What happened N3 Pout?

Pout is still good BTW. No way she fakes a cop on me.

I'll just solve the game right quick on Day 4 so I don't have to worry about anything afterward no problem at all.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:28 pm speeds goofy EOD3

Would either you or Nutella explain what was wrong with my EOD3?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:27 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:23 pm [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Lynch him. The mafia rezzed INH and could have shenanigans planned, even if unlikely. They weren’t ready to lose speedchuck today.
What’s the evidence against speed?

Pout says she has a cop check on me.

If I die all vigs better target INH to make use of the wasted day phase

poutanko wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:25 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:22 pm Some sort of redirection doesn’t seem like it should be out of the question.
I did consider that but his behavior/post so far don't convince me to read him as town.

N3? Gee I wonder

What do you mean "Gee I wonder"

- This is not a bastard game, so I will not lie to you. However, it is possible for abilities that obtain information to be fooled.

poutanko wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:07 pm ....it's not read
N1 - Bullz
N2 - Colin

N3?

Also you are incorrect.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:50 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:48 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:46 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:40 pm

LIIIIIAAAARRRRRR

[Expecto Patronum]: This spell will make the user and another two students immune to Dark Arts, except [Avada Kedavra], for a night.

When used by a guilty student, it will create a distraction around themselves and another student, protecting them from all negative abilities.
Yes, I will take that confirmed town status, speedchuck.
If I think you lied about who you targeted, why would I think you truthful about what ability you used? (and yes, I already checked that)
I don't see abilities.
That's up to your discretion, I suppose. But mechanically, I cannot be a scum who used the Patronus on LC last night.

That is 100% true.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:51 pm do you legitimately think i'm lying or are you just giving me shit because i can't tell

I legitimately KNOW your story doesn't add up with the facts. I don't know whether you're lying or if there's something else in the mix.

And I don't know WHY you would be lying. That's the hard part. If you were faking an ability, Patronus is a bad one to fake. Easily countered. So you seem genuine. But your story doesn't match the facts. I need to figure it out because I either just townfirmed two people with my watch or caught a scum somehow.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:46 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:40 pm

LIIIIIAAAARRRRRR

[Expecto Patronum]: This spell will make the user and another two students immune to Dark Arts, except [Avada Kedavra], for a night.

When used by a guilty student, it will create a distraction around themselves and another student, protecting them from all negative abilities.
Yes, I will take that confirmed town status, speedchuck.

If I think you lied about who you targeted, why would I think you truthful about what ability you used? (and yes, I already checked that)
I don't see abilities.

LIIIIIAAAARRRRRR

Quiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinsly is a LIIIIIAAAAAAAAAARRRRR

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