The Syndicate

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:26 am Secret: nobody knows how to play mafia. We just pretend.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:10 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:58 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:46 pm You did resemble Mountain Mafia speed more than mafia speed tbh...and the win cons seemed as hard to acquire in both.

I didn't melt down QUITE as hard here... but it was close.

I was worried I had made your win condition too easy.

You nailed the code word on your first try after like three letters.

All you needed to do was lynch Wily.

So did all of the other civilians. Your win condition at that point was incredibly easy comparatively speaking- you just didn't meet it like they didn't meet theirs.

*cough* only had one letter *cough*

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:46 pm You did resemble Mountain Mafia speed more than mafia speed tbh...and the win cons seemed as hard to acquire in both.

I didn't melt down QUITE as hard here... but it was close.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 pm Uh, I don't think a person's integrity should ever be questioned when lying as a mafioso.

And I don't think a mafia team's win should ever be questioned because they didn't kill off inactives instead of active players. That's a load of poop, I'm sorry.

Great game, Epi. Sorry not everyone showed up; you made a hell of an effort designing and balancing this game. Congrats mafia! Kyle had me totally fooled; I was convinced speed was bad since the get go... Hard luck civs, but those of you who were active played a good game (:

a. I don't think anyone is questioning the win. Just complaining. :P

b. Shame on you for not recognizing no-idea-what-he-is-doing chuck.

Seriously. I cultivate these metas for a reason.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:39 pm Haha you should have tried lynching bad guys.

Bro.

I provided the meta. Not-scum-chuck don't know how to hunt.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:28 pm I don't get the "meta" of priority replacements having to be mafia.

If there are 4 people on my mafia team and one of them is inactive, we still get our NK, and at minimum we still get 3/4 of our other night powers, and we still get 3 players who are in BTSC, planning, working to win the game. I'm of the view that the inactive person's ability should be able to be used by the active mafia (or failing that, the town should be able to figure out that "X power hasn't shown up and X player hasn't been active, so X is bad. Got em")

Inactive civs are much higher priorty in terms of replacements to me. They have no one to pick up their slack, they're not contributing to Lynch talks, and they're not using their power to help the civs.

That's fair. I come from a place heavy with vanilla civs, so it's a bigger deal there.

To be fair, though, mafia players request replacement more often for the very reasons you outlined here.

And yes, inactives make the game easier for scum most of the time, but at the cost of actual gameplay. The mods try hard to achieve game balance, and inactives mess that up.

It's more fun to play a scum game with everyone active than with inactives. It's the way that it's meant to be played. You'd complain if you were playing a first-person shooter game and a fourth of the NPC enemies just fell over dead as soon as you saw them. And then you had to go and shoot their dead bodies to pass the objective.

(I am so good at analogies you guys)

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:54 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:25 am

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:33 am I really want to hear Speedchucks thing about inactives

I don't recall what this is.

you said earlier in game about talking about how inactives are bad for a games health

They are.

Maybe you have all town inactives. It skews the balance because the votes aren't there.
If you have scum inactives, it's impossible to tell them apart from town inactives by hunting. So you have to lynch them one by one while mafia does whatever they want.
If Wily had been inactive, I would have been out of luck all game until Epi modkilled all of them and gave me an instawin.

I've considered several times becoming the "forum replacement" and just queuing up to be a replacement for literally every game. Just to keep the games healthier and more fun for everyone involved.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:34 am I wish you has as well. I could have flipped the following lynch and made things REALLY interesting.

You probably would have been dead by then tho

(I mean, I wasn't a BAD indy, but still. I was like "Wow, Jack can read me perfectly!" And then I started acting like GoC Speed [AKA idiot speed] and it all went down in flames.)

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:05 pm Last time I had uncanny mindmeld with Speed was Phenon. I was town, he was bad indy.

I think that lends credit to the idea he’s town here. The mindset is of a player without teammates or a player who doesn’t gaf about their teammates.

Second day of the game, [mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention].

As mafia, I usually would rather kill inactives. But I let the rest of my team decide, because I KNOW it's against my wincon. To me, it makes the game more fun and interesting, and that's worth making it harder for myself. But I don't expect my team to make that sacrifice.

And here I was, playing the hypocrite and expecting the mafia team that I'm not even on to make that sacrifice. :P Thanks for pointing out my two-faced ways.

Mafia played a heck of a game. I don't think townies can lay the blame on inactives, or the mafia's 'selfish' kill choices. It was a good game. If anything, blame me. I'm pretty sure I was scum MVP, yep.

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:33 am I really want to hear Speedchucks thing about inactives

I don't recall what this is.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:48 am um don't i get a say in this

(tbh i don't because i don't think there will be enough games left in the year to let me catch up)

You're tied with me right now tho, one point behind Kylemii. Right? Or did I miss something?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:44 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:04 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:58 pm thank you LC for depriving Speedchuck of his wincon and putting me back in first place B)

This actually unreasonably pisses me off. Apparently this competition isn't good for me. You can have it.

hey dude i'm sorry. i didn't really mean it. i was just caught up in the rush of victory, i don't really feel that way.

at the end when epi implied that the game wasn't over because of an indie wincon we decided to kill wilgy to try and make sure either one of you could get a survivor win if that's what it was.

i don't actually care about rival meta beyond it being a nice friendly competition with you and a reason to try slightly harder in games, if you want to retire rival meta that's fine. i'm sorry i was being shitty. you're my friend and if this rivalry thing is getting negative in any way we can kill it.

Nah, it's alright. I was salty about a few things last night, and like I said, being unreasonable. Enjoy your victory, dude.

I almost considered making a plea in the thread that last day, that we could just lynch Wily, and then I'd vote with the mafia to kill LC/Wilgy afterward. Had the post all written out, then deleted it. Kinda wish I'd posted it.

Anyway, mafia is a team game, it can't really be won by yourself. So rival meta doesn't actually make sense. Maybe we should quit. But I'm probably not going to.

You're my friend too, man. Sorry I got bite-y.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:58 pm thank you LC for depriving Speedchuck of his wincon and putting me back in first place B)

This actually unreasonably pisses me off. Apparently this competition isn't good for me. You can have it.

Good game mafia.

Can honestly say I didn't suspect most of you. That said, I didn't really care about four of the baddies that much.

I never felt like I was in control of my win con this game, but that was a combination of several things... that Wily could have been inactive (killed my motivation for a good portion of the game while I thought this might be the case), that town had less lynches to use for me, that I couldn't actually contribute when it mattered most, and that the last lynch of the game screwed me over for no reason.

But hey, life as an indy.

I'm irritated. Will post when less so.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:40 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:41 pm Guess I'll vote Chuck

"Why not Kylemii, since he did that huge betrayal and switched to Jack? Or Nova?"

I mean I'm on Chuck for now but I could switch to just about anywhere really. If the case is there. IDK.

If [mention]DrWilgy[/mention] doesn't show up, we're screwed.

[VOTE: Kylemii] aubergine

Alright Long Con, I'll side with you. I guess.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:31 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:03 pm 95% of the time, extra votes don't work in MYLO/LYLO.

I have never heard of that being a thing.

Huh. Because otherwise doublevotes are the most unbalanced power in all of mafia. I mean, do you even think we can lynch scum with an active GM today? No? Then why bother with it as if he's lynchable today and not tomorrow?

Gemini Man wrote: ↑Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:48 pm My Job is done here

Also this

Totally means he won't show up again

95% of the time, extra votes don't work in MYLO/LYLO. I'd have to look at Epi's other games to see if that's a commonality.

Not sure I care enough to do that, but if it helps you vote for Dr. Wily, I'm game.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:56 am Gemini Man. Extra vote. Help me understand why that's not a large threat.

That sounds like a pretty bad thing, yeah.

Unless DH is Wily actually

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:35 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:05 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:43 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:41 pm [VOTE: Novaselineever] aubergine

Shouldn't we... lynch Gemini Man?

I don't actually care about lynching Gemini Man.

Oh... you're not Civ, are you?

How about we lynch Dr. Wily / Nova?

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:43 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:41 pm [VOTE: Novaselineever] aubergine

Shouldn't we... lynch Gemini Man?

I don't actually care about lynching Gemini Man.

Oh and for the record I'm not scum.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:46 pm Okay so who is Gemini man, Kyle, DH, or Nova?

It's Kylemii.

Reasoning without checking: Nova and DH were... both absent when Gemini man was used?

Lol.

I'll get back to you guys.

1-1.

Jack is Fungus Man

linki: oh okay

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:08 pm Rolehint: 1-1

??

It's not the same level of ignorance. TH is like "They're prolly still there" and you're like "If they are allowed in the chat"
One is a wrong presumtion. The other is "I do not know this thing."

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:52 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:48 pmAgenda? I'm not trying to doubtcast you. Just attempting to put together all of the factors. I don't disagree with your assessment, but it still factors in.

You were like "Maybe they's still in the chat" with a (?) meant to show ignorance.
TH's comment was more "They prolly in the chat."
You called attention to the question, TH didn't. That matters to me. I see his as more of a townslip than yours.

I didn't call attention to it then. That can matter to you now, but not then. It's the same baseline of ignorance.

I don't know what you mean by this. I'm trying to follow why your question and TH's assumption are supposed to be on equal ground. Why is that different now? I'm not getting it.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:46 pm There’s not a world where Speed has done this bad and just suspiciously keeps taking crazy actions and DH has fooled him.

You underestimate me. Overestimate me? I'm willing to bet you didn't even look at the GoC game I linked. You wouldn't remember it, as you were in the other tribe I think.

This is going to be another 48 hours of you saying "Speed's not this stupid/bad at the game" until it's revealed that I ACTUALLY AM, and I'm gonna be pissed about it the whole time. And afterward. It's super annoying.
YES, there is a world where I've just played with zero knowledge of my own and flubbed all over the place.
NO, there's not a world where I did that while trying to avoid suspicion.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:39 pm Also, I already answered your query about replacement. I answered you specifically. Pretty damn sure. You didn't care? Didn't fit your agenda?

Here:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:52 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:29 pm It would actually make a lot of sense if either Dizzy or DH is an indie because they would be a replacement priority above the scum even

I thought the same for DH. So this is probably relevant information. I tried to join the game just when it started, and posted in the sign ups, but just missed it. So I was asked to stand by, because it was likely that a replacement would be needed. I replaced White who hadn't even been logged on for a long time before the game started. So I replaced in because I wanted to join this game.

Agenda? I'm not trying to doubtcast you. Just attempting to put together all of the factors. I don't disagree with your assessment, but it still factors in.

You were like "Maybe they's still in the chat" with a (?) meant to show ignorance.
TH's comment was more "They prolly in the chat."
You called attention to the question, TH didn't. That matters to me. I see his as more of a townslip than yours.

You can't bury a reference to your old townslip in a list of junk.

I found it.

Also I don't know where your slip is.

Don't blame me for not giving you the locktown colors.

I haven't role-claimed. I've hinted. It's not against the rules. *huffs*

I've already roleclaimed once in an Epignosis game, against the rules. I'll not be doing it again. I still bear the shame.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:36 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:29 pm Come read my case, people who are alive.

I read it. I agree, but still kind of buy Speed's defense. I have other problems with Speed to though. The main accusation against K-ness as I see it was Turnip's argument that K-ness TMI-ed. I wrote to Speed a counter example of this, when K-ness voted the Bullz wagon that he really didn't have to do, but Speed never commented on this.

Don't recall you showing me the counter example. Might have missed it. I was preparing the house for company during that lynch.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:39 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:41 pmDyslexicon - townreading since she first showed up. Manufactured DH vote from yesterday now looks okay. Replacement status, no lock town.

I'm genuinly curious - if you lock town Turnip for the town slip, what is the reason you don't lock town me as well? Do you think it's more likely I faked a slip for your or anyone's honor than Turnip? Also, what does "replacement status" mean?

Remind me what your townslip was? I seem to have forgotten. Was it with TH's?

And replacements are more likely scum, just on a meta level.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:45 pm You know, with the janitorings and unclear alignments and mostly missing powers, roleclaiming shouldn’t be gamebreaking.

Rules are rules though.

IKR? Reminds me of a sock puppet game. Yeah, we know you're Monica, but are you scum?

Any mechanical reveals or lock-alignment characters kinda mess that up though.

speedchuck - me tho
Turnip Head - lock town for town slip and marmot lynch
JackofHearts2005 - lock town for marmot lynch and personal game-playing ethics
Kylemii - lock town because you know he'd have killed me already (kidding) | because he wouldn't kill JJJ N1 & I have no reason to sus him
Long Con - Been townreading him forever. Why is he not nightkilled yet? Still townread, but no lock.
Dyslexicon - townreading since she first showed up. Manufactured DH vote from yesterday now looks okay. Replacement status, no lock town.

novaselinenever - I actually like his terse approach to the game. Doesn't match any of his metas, though. Lightest of townreads.

DharmaHelper - replacement, doesn't seem to care about the roof now that he's shirked the lynch for one day, anti-aligned with muh townflips

DrWilgy - Dr. Wily. Mostly inactive. Prolly not scum with only inactives, as he wasn't here Night 5 (I think) and a kill still happened without Luna or Marmot.
DFaraday - :-(
Dom - :-(
Soneji - :-(


Elohcin - Lynched Day 1: Mega Man
ColinIsCool - Destroyed Night 1.
JaggedJimmyJay - Destroyed Night 1.
MacDougall - Destroyed Night 2.
Lunalee - Lynched Day 3: Bright Man (Wily)
nutella - Destroyed Night 3.
Simon - Lynched Day 4: Charge Man (Light)
Sloonei - Destroyed Night 4.
sprityo - Destroyed Night 5.
Marmot - Lynched Day 5: Magnet Man (Wily)
Bullzeye - Lynched Day 6: Heat Man (Light)
Quin - Destroyed Night 6.
K-Ness - Lynched Day 7: Dr. Light

I need to check alignment, but Wilgy isn't the only active scum (active being a stretch word there)
Those top four are not scum.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:41 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:28 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:56 am

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:31 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:24 am

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:23 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:17 am @Dyslexicon @Turnip Head

Please expound on your K-ness votes if you really want him lynched.

Right now, at this precise moment in time, I'd prefer to lynch him over Jack or DH

Why?

This post with some hindsight makes Marmot/Luna/KNess look compatible to me.

Also I just realized he left me out of that post, even though I was on the Luna bandwagon and had a few noteworthy comments surrounding it. idk what that means exactly, it's just interesting that I'm the only person on that 9-vote wagon that KNess didn't talk about at all. Maybe it's tough for baddies to give reads on me so he just... forgot to, idk idk.

Anyways I don't think it's too harsh to say that these could be read as the perspective of a mafia member who had just lost a teammate.

Can you unpack why you think this as opposed to Kness being town or 3P?

There’s confidence in the townieness of townies and alive players. There’s shade at Marmot and Kyle. There’s not really anything I see tying Kness to Luna in there and not a strong tie to Marmot considering Kness has had similar “bad feeling” reads on other players.

Specifically because KNess has called attention to the fact that he doesn't find it easy to make reads like we do here, and then he ends up having all the right reads. He's either better at the game than he thinks he is or he is playing with more information than he'd like to.

K-ness stuff

I'll get the POE in a minute

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:07 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:00 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:54 pm Because he tried to lynch Sloonei. Yes this is old news, but it's the limit of my recollection.

Honestly, I logged in the other day and freaked out because I was about to be lynched. But I probably shouldn't have posted when I did, hence why you guys didn't hear more from me. I didn't expect to survive the lynch either, that was a surprise to me.

Anyway, just checking in right now to say hi. But I'll be back to post more later on today, and I've got a bone to pick with you voters.

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present to you “freaked out” Marmot.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:48 pmWait what?

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:48 pm Sorry been busy with house projects the past couple days...

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:50 pm Well that's cool. Enjoy lynching me.

(Silently votes Simon)

I'm gonna roll my eyes at this post. Hard.

Those quotes could absolutely be categorized as freaking out.

I pointed out what I perceived as Marmot genuineness at the time. I did mention how bad I am at gauging caught scum, right? It's in that other post that LC is going to vote me for.

linki: I believe this is 100% against my meta. And I did defend Marmot. If you think it's not against my meta, then find a similar example of me doing this dance, whatever you want to call it.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:15 pm Why is DH scum now?

POE? If we aren't in a K-ness world, we're likely in a DH one. If he is also town I will feel vindicated. One step closer to losing, but vindicated nevertheless.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:06 pm I'm going to vote for you for bringing up GoC2017.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:31 pm Didnt speedchuck say he wasn't going to defend himself?

That's a good strategy. I have failed to follow it.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:17 pm Eeeeeek meta

If Jack gets to use it, I can too.

Also, K-ness flipped town. You said you'd reevaluate? Or did I miss your updated reads?

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] Have you ever, EVER seen scumchuck push an opposing train like I supposedly did this game with Marmot or DH (if he's bad)?

I've been scum more than any other player on the site this year. I've WON as scum more than any other player on the site this year. Not all of that was my doing. I've had good teammates, and I've replaced into some hella good spots. (Thanks Dunya)

You have plenty of examples to chose from. Examples of me ignoring teammates, bussing them, or making legit-sounding arguments against faux scumspects. You won't find me inexplicably voting against a highly suspected scummer like Marmot, because I actually care about my image as mafia.

If you can call to meta, I can do it as well. Take a look at my scumgames.
Mortal Kombat - W maf
Fire Emblem - W maf
Ancient Greece - W maf
Fellowship of the Ring - W maf

That's not all the meta I have, though. This means nothing if I often play a smart town game to match my scum game. Here are a couple of town games from recent memory:
Game of Champions 2017 - W civ
I won this game, but I was the first townie to flip, DESPITE BEING CONFIRMED TOWN BY THE MOD! Why was that? Because I defended Long Con to the freaking death in Pikachu tribe, even after he straight-up scumslipped. He was scum, I was town. Why did I do that? Because I believed him. Because I am really, really bad at telling when people are genuine.
What about Buffy the Vamp Slayer - L civ
I almost got lynched D1 in this game, and I was BUFFY. Why did I almost get lynched? Because I made cases on D1, and the cases were garbage. I make garbage cases. It's something that happens. The only reason I didn't get lynched was because I started role-hinting.

I don't get suspected like this every game as Civ. Sometimes I luck out, make a good read, and end up on an early wagon later on.

All that said, I don't think my play has been too egregious in this current mafia game. I supported Luna's lynch, but not with my vote. I was on the wrong side of history with Marmot, and mayyyybe K-ness/DH. That's yet to be seen.