The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote:@Fred, My sanity and my soul. Should I join on Jack?

I see Gfish claiming. Why on earth would you not use a cop action the first night if this is your role? Any counters to this?

lol we're down to Jack or Fish at this point. I don't like Fish's claim because as you said, Cop makes an infinite amount of more sense on N1 then a gut RB. Jack hasn't claimed yet, and Fish has done the whole I'm a RB from early on thing. So info dump supports Fish currently. It really comes down to how flexible people are to vote for which people.

Silver Lantern wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

Fredwood wrote:He claimed one of 28 roleblocks

I claimed a role block with self protection.

Is Epi only after you cause you claimed to have blocked him?

Does a kill attempt appear on him in the write up?

No, epi wants LC to die. But he's going to vote for whoever has the greatest chance of being lynched of not being him.

gfishfunk wrote:

Mordin Solus
You are the very model of a Salarian scientist! And since you were recruited by Shepard to stop the Reaper threat, you have a variety of abilities you can use during the game.

Incinerate - One shot roleblock with a chance to kill your target.
Neural Shock - One shot roleblock nexus (anyone targeting you fails in their action)
Salarian Scientist - Two shot alignment cop

Might as well just quote at this point.

Incinerate. And before you give me hell for my choice of night action, I hit non-town damnit. It was a great night action.

Not really...if you fucking copped him we would have bypassed the whole Vega debacle.


Also...I don't see any kill protection in your roleblock.

Silver Lantern wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:
To EVERYONE we will gain mpre info from a JoH lynch than an Epi lynch.

We would gain the most info from a gfish lynch.

Isn't info what all civs thirst for?

To be frank at this point hasn't there been enough back and forth (guessing here) that we will get solid info from any of these lynches.

Cause if so, stop trying to make it seem like one is better than another. That just makes you seem like a team mate trying to protect Epi.

I think he's playing which is more likely to happen. Gfish refuses to vote for Jack, he's intransigent. Jack will vote for Gfish, Epi will vote for Gfish...so of the two options enough people can vote for Fish to force a non Epi lynch.

He claimed one of 28 roleblocks

Silver Lantern wrote:

Fredwood wrote: My suspicions are independent of Dom's and SVS. I'm pretty sure I explained it, Adam followed the logic. It's a combination of cost/benefit assessment and uncharacteristic opportunistic play. I really didn't like the switch to Epi from Silver, If you're that sure on Silver you stay on Silver and try building your case, especially in plurality. We're not at a point were we have to play it safe (even if we think Epi is a "safe" vote) we can afford to take a few risks. The more I think about an Epi lynch, the more it sounds dumb because we still have plays that provide a greater benefit then maintaining the status quo. Epi's only a lynch if we have no better alternatives.

Cause he's scum and he knows that once I come up town he's cooked. He's just desperately trying to take any attention away from himself, by any means necessary. Typical scum Jack.

OMFG F this Link crap...

lol you catching up has shown how much I've had to repeat myself.

Silver Lantern wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

A reaver? What the hell is that?

You are Cerberus, and I think Long Con is too. You tried to kill me. It failed. So you made up this bullshit role block story.

You are bad.

Why would his kill on you fail?

His Night action has a chance to deflect night actions. It really doesn't matter, they're both kind of using it as a smokescreen at this point, and our focus is way too frayed for comfort with all the voting shenanigans.

DrWilgy wrote:Fred, JoH can both of you vote Gfish so we can give that wagon a chance.

To a point, but to me we're in the same position if we all switch from Jack to Gfish. I think either can go, I have less faith that either will at this point.

I just don't see how we need to play it safe at this point, we have leeway now. If you all think Epi is a safe lynch...doesn't it make more sense to save it for if we get in a situation where we need to be careful?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

Linki - 8/10, there was no investment before hand. There are multuple roles making that claim easy and if Gfish was on the team that targeted Epi, it would explain the motive.

Ugh. Stupid phone. I swear I hit reply.


Wigly, does Dom basing his vote off a misunderstanding of what I meant by "rainbow", SVS misunderstanding my case on Nutella yesterday and then refusing to answer my questions or reevaluate her read on me in light of this while doing no scumhunting at all and Silver's lack of townie behavior not give you pause? What about Fred think I'm a distraction more than I'm scum and voting for that reason?

Could you find it in your heart to vote for the player who has basically claimed scum instead of the guy with several bad votes on him?

Or at least put it on GFish so that a switch to him is in the cards instead of making it me or Epi?

My suspicions are independent of Dom's and SVS. I'm pretty sure I explained it, Adam followed the logic. It's a combination of cost/benefit assessment and uncharacteristic opportunistic play. I really didn't like the switch to Epi from Silver, If you're that sure on Silver you stay on Silver and try building your case, especially in plurality. We're not at a point were we have to play it safe (even if we think Epi is a "safe" vote) we can afford to take a few risks. The more I think about an Epi lynch, the more it sounds dumb because we still have plays that provide a greater benefit then maintaining the status quo. Epi's only a lynch if we have no better alternatives.

The more and more you defend yourself the less it sounds like you're pleading your case and jumping on the bandwagon of other lynches. The fact that I have never seen you push for the "easy/safe" lynch is building that suspicion.

gfishfunk wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Homie, you aren't hunting. You want to look like you are hunting, but you aren't.

Your "safe" Epi vote reinforces this more so. You gathing info that you aren't using reinforces this. Your acceptance of ravens half answered questions reinforces this. Your hard claim w/o any investigation reinforced this.

You aren't a hunter.

I put a lot on the line to reveal information, garner a claim, and then moved to lynch the result. Homie, I'm the ONLY hunter.

You might not like what I do, but I don't see you doing anything.

lol no you're not. I hunted and stated rather clearly why Jack is the best choice. Even addressed your safe bet "maths" logic. Adam, Wilgy and to an extent Spirit has done it. Dom is doing it in his own way.

All the more reason for Jack to stay on Silver at this point. Less is required to lynch him. The game in which I played with him here that was plurality he stuck to his guns on his reads to the point of tunneling.

I think the best defense for Jack is "self-preservation" but here, even if you're dead you get a win if your faction wins. So self-preservation is less of a motivation, the greater good is a better motivation. Switching to Epi screams of self-preservation not enforcing the greater good and staying on Silver. If he goes down as town still doggedly pursuing Silver, then it's a direction the town is more likely to go down now. By switching to epi he's just muddled his pressure of SIlver as just being opportunistic.

DrWilgy wrote:Can we aim to at leas make Gfish the alternate wagon?

Hmm... a thought. I'm damn near a unanimous town read. Yet little to no one is voting with me.

Who legitimately thinks that I am just wrong out of this group.

I think the bigger issue for me is the vote manipulation. Gfish is a good candidate, right now we have such a wide list of suspects that adding another leaves us open to vote manipulation having a greater effect on the outcome. I did list fish as an asterisk on my main post, but seeing as how nobody is really moving to a consensus of one or two people, pushing him felt like a dangerous proposition.

Jack moving to Epi of all the other options just keeps adding to the reason why I want to vote for Jack, despite my Risk/Reward analysis. Jack's defense doesn't feel like he's defending himself but trying to get us to look at other people we want to lynch. I think a townie Jack sticks to his guns on Silver, not switch to epi. There's been plenty of times I recall Jack not going for the easy lynch when he was town, going for the easy lynch now is suspect.

DrWilgy wrote:So here's my primary concern.

If Epi sides with the Reapers, he is only an extra vote right?

Lynching him now doesn't do anything for us.

How about we lynch a Reaper and get his vote power on civ side instead of being distracted by his role.

I need to reveiw Epi's interactions with everyone. Primarily LC and see if I agree with him on what a baddie would do given those actions.

First glance I'm inclined to believe he's right regarding baddie interactions, due to his early to die meta. I'm also inclined to believe due to LC (a syndicater) being the potential interacting baddie.

My final question. Would Epi's team purposely not put in a kill, for this plot, on the chance that someone could counter claim? I don't see it.

I think the only detraction to your last point is the poison kill Cerberus has. It could be a ploy from that perspective if Epi really didn't think he was going to dance away from pressure to change to the Geth scenario, if he's likely dead anyway, trying to take out a non Cerberus aligned player could be a play.

I don't think that's likely either, because at that point I don't think anyone was on the train with LC and it's safer for scum to keep the Vega claim and avoid easily dismissed as faulty pressure.

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:Epignosis, how skilled are you at mind games, in relation to the average player?

Depends on what time of day it is I guess. I don't really know how skilled the average person is, so I really couldn't say.

I will say this: I have thirty minutes to write fifty baseball lineups. So I am going away for a little bit.

I'm intrigued DFB, or what?

Fuck...I already agreed with the post directed at gfish.

To the post regarding LC, not gfish's...I already agree with that post.

You actually don't, to literally anything you said in the last part of the post ...

Long Con wrote:Epignosis, how skilled are you at mind games, in relation to the average player?

On a scale of 1 to 5

1 being Epignosis and 5 being Epignosis.


Again, I don't really see a scenario where anything he does factors into any of my decisions from this point on, but if others think he can influence people...(shrug). Either way, we still have a whole day and night cycle before he has to decide.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:EBWOP

If you think you can get Epi lynched, why shoot him?

As a civ I wouldn't want to waste either. I see the logic with lynching Epi, I just disagree with it. I hope to the Enkindlers, no civ hitter hits Epi, that's the worst possible outcome.

gfishfunk wrote:Fred, care to answer these questions:

gfishfunk wrote:I'll ask this one last thing, and then let other people post (I guess).

IF Epi is a safe lynch, who is a better lynch and why?

1. Who do you think is the best lynch this phase?

2. Why is this person better than lynching Epi specifically?

3. Based on what you know or think you know, would Epi side with Alliance or Reapers? For this question, I don't care if you think Epi is lying. You can add that or whatever. I just want to know what you think Epi would do when/if he has to make a choice.

If we're going of probability, I feel Silver, Jack, TSP or LC are all better lynches, just based of risk reward.

Specifically, I feel Jack is the best lynch for the town, even if he is town. The heat he is garnering won't dissapate. Silver's and TSP's heat have the chance of dissipating, and LC's is being pushed by epi so really isn't garnering heat atm. Like I said, I'm good with all 5 of these lynches, but if I look at it from a net positive in a worst case scenario situation, sorry Jack.

3. I don't think it matters who Epi sides with. Either we lynch him now or we just ignore him as he's essentially a stump at this point.

To me the only valid reason for an Epi lynch hasn't been brought up yet, if people actually think they'll be influenced by his mind games, then we should lynch him.

Dyslexicon wrote:Also, want to point out that reading the roles, there's a very good chance of there being some vote shenanigans ongoing. So having the votes extremely spread out by EoD may have variable results, which may be fun, but not the best if control is something we want. Not sure if this has been pointed out before.

lol yeah, I've been trying to streamline it, and have mentioned it, but there hasn't been a ton of discussion on the point.

Dyslexicon wrote:@Fred, Who should I vote?

Also, Epi is claiming 3p that later can side with scum. Is there any good reason not to lynch him? o.o

@Epi, How will we know you have sided with town, is there any way of knowing? And how can we be sure you are who you say you are?

No, there is no reason other then it's too safe and it's kind of a wasted lynch, especially since he cannot do anything for another few days. Right now, since it's difficult for you to follow along your best bet is to vote for Epi, I'm not pushing for an Epi lynch just that the other options are meta and read dependent.

Your other option is Jack, Dom and SVS pretty much seem determined to get a Jack lynch at this point. I think the likelyhood of SVS and Dom being on the same team are slim, they're buddying and mirroring too much. My feeling, just by how the day is going that a non Epi lynch means a Jack lynch.

The random lynch only works if our lynch is town.

The "math" as you put it doesn't take into effect the net benefit and the probability of lynching scum at this point, and the benefit overall we get for lynching scum.

With 17 players left, we know that 8 are non-town. That's what 45 percent or something? With 6 scum they're about 33 percent of the remaining player base. Let's just take the 4 players on my list, what's the probability that one of them are scum, then what's the probability of 2 of them being scum etc

Right now, not including epi,,, there's a 37.5 percent that anyone we choose at random is a mafia member, and about a 44 percent chance that one of them is a mafia member or a non-town neutral.

Further increasing the paramaters, what is the likely hood and probability that of the 4 people, other than Epi, that one of them is mafia, or that one of them is mafia or non-town? Then what is the probability of then what are the odds that we successfully lynch the correct person.

See where introducing Math gets cloudy. My guess, It's been too long since I calculated probabilities so I can't give specific numbers, is that there is a significant chance that one of the four people are scum, thus increasing our chances from the small sample size that we do end up with scum, since we have a 1 in 3 chance of randomly rolling scum with all players.

My point being, introducing math and discounting the risk/reward of lynching from a pool of suspicious targets to go for the "safe" target seems the wrong way to be going about it.

Why would a townie target Epi? If he's Geth he has a self targeting ability, maybe he gets lucky and lands on Sovereign during N3...so he knows who not to vote for at that point. Not discounting the inherent probability of him being able to determine, A: Who reaper mafia is, and B: Who Sovereign is. Why would the town care if he gets lucky, he's not voting with us anyway.

Maybe I'm chicken littleing, and with the amount of different faction manipulation it balances it out, but in my experience as a Mod, the most deceptively powerful role in the game is a Mafia vote manipulator, and a poorly balanced town manipulator can break the game.

I'm just worried that we have even talked about it to this point and it's been a building paranoia for me, so I think I need some outside perspective as well.

That was in response to LC's question about vote manipulation.

I don't know, but there are 4 or 5 roles that manipulate votes. We know Shep and Illusive Man are for sure in the game. Reapers have 3 roles that can manipulate votes, so the odds are good that at least one of them are in the game. Then there's the Thorian, I'm also pretty sure there's another Alliance role or two that deal with voting as well.

I'm not necessarily expecting vote shenanigans Day 2, but we do need to be aware of them because of the sheer amount of manipulation involved. If we go to EoD with a wide range of options all with a similar number of votes, it's much easier for scum to directly influence the lynch outcome.

Is it better for everyone to provide a list of people in order of who they're willing to vote for, and we lynch the person with the highest aggregate total or debate the top two on that list? I've personally never been in a game with this much potential for voter fraud, so if anyone else has a better idea of how to counter it, I'm all ears.

Saren also has access to a perma block in a sense

So in the interest of streamlining this, we have 9 hours left.

Right now as I see it, barring any last minute shenanigans but keeping in mind vote manipulating shenanigans.

There's currently 5 options that seem to be the directions we're going, listed in order of probability at this moment.

1. Lynch Jack
2. Lynch Silver
3. Lynch Epi
4. Lynch TSP
5. Lynch LC

1. Dom, Spirit, and SVS. What specifically do you need to be happy with Jack...at this point is there anything that he can say that won't make you want to lynch him today or any other day? I doubt, even if you caught him, he's likely to admit to being Scum. I'm not sold on Jack's civness either, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his busy at work explanation, but if he's going to be a continuing distraction for a large portion of the players...

2. I really don't want to lynch Silver for a trapping argument. If we lynch Silver I would at least like him to be able to defend himself. I've said it a number of times that I feel he's off, but we're now at the point that even if he comes on and is genuinely aggressive then we can wifom as him trying to compensate. I just think it would be fair if we gave him something to try and actually defend himself.

3. Epi - he's the safest lynch. At worst we get a neutral that has expressed willingness to side with scum, on the slight slight slight chance that he's scum, then yay, we eliminated mafia. I personally don't think he matters that much in the long scheme of things, so would rather not waste a lynch on him

4. TSP - he's fooled me before when I was sure he was scum and he turned out to be town. I don't love his responses, but he is responding to questions and not being overtly defensive and addressing specific lines of questions so he has that in his favor. He still has a couple of votes on him.

5. LC - follow epi's lead and just see what happens. Someone want to explain a scenario where scum LC provides a fake claim for someone he think might be opposing scum, then push on the fake claim after the heat is lifted from the fake claim is accepted? Anything is possible, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it and enkendlers know I've bashed my head on my keyboard for some of LC's scum plays, I still can't see it. I think if LC is scum, the more likely scenario is that Epi was not involved in his night targeting, or he was on the team that killed Bob, I seriously doubt Epi's chain of events as presented. Indpendent of LC's interaction with Epi, LC is still in a tenuous position on my suspect list.


Alternatively we could just go with WIlgy's gut on fish, his last response to Silver really bothered me. Accused him of deflecting, when he didn't provide him with anything to deflect.

Being that I'm vanilla, I'm willing to vote for any of the options. My careful voting policy works well at the Realms because of the meta, but from my experience here and the inherent pointlessness of my role atm, I'll vote for someone tonight. I just want a narrower band of options.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Slightly annoyed that just about nobody is town reading Silver but nobody but me will vote for him.

Does anyone have any reason to think Silver is town? Any reason at all?

Because even though we all suspect Silver it's for Bullshit reasons he can't defend himself from, so we all feel bad, and will give him time to stew about it until we're sure?

That or there's 20 hours left or something.

nutella wrote:
I'm generally not a huge post count player; I post whenever I have time to catch up and give a couple thoughts, but I often miss a lot of the main discussion times and then just make a couple catch-up posts at a time. This game has been pretty overwhelming so far in that way, so I haven't really been able to gather my thoughts on everything that's come up, but I try to say what's on my mind at the time.


linki: god why do people even try to quote long posts without snipping to what they're replying to? at least spoiler and then use the preview button before posting! look what happened to fred

To say what got lost, I think your biggest issue right now is Wilgy, he's pinging everyone pretty strongly as pro town and keeps building on that reputation with his posts. As fair or unfair as that is, he's your biggest detractor, and for the Realmsers that's really all that we have to go on.

I have some concerns myself, but it's early in the game so I'm delaying judgement, there are better options I think. The problem is that all the other people that I think are good options are also being pushed by people who I think are good candidates for a lynch.

Hey I tried, I was too busy looking at Jack's tabs.

Am I the only one that sees that I broke the forum for a second....it even chpuanged my font size in my regular post...when I didn't put that much thought into formatting...oh man, Dom is going to be all over me now.

Okay that's a wierd thing that happened...I tried to spoiler the first part of post...I guess I did it wrong.

nutella wrote:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy wrote:There being role claiming and info dumping allowed means USE that mechanic to the best of it's ability.

You mean like this?

I am not James Vega. I lied.

I am the fucking Terminator.

I am Zodac, the Cosmic Enforcer.

I am the God of Cylons.

I have no allegiance to anybody...yet.

Tuck and roll bitches? Please. I am metal. I don't tuck or roll.

I am here to judge. And dissipate.

There was no second kill Night 1. So you say. I don't agree. It's likely I was the target and dissipated it. Ironically, instead of being worshiped like the mechanical god I am, people voted for me.

I like that.

Can you imagine why?

James Vega does not exist, for he is not in the database. I falsely claimed to be him, knowing that if someone tried to kill me, that team would know I was lying about "tuck and roll."

Tuck and roll - You will be immune to all non-lethal night actions this night.

That says non-lethal. I should be dead if a team tried to take me out.

But I'm not dead.

What a shame. You know what else is a shame?

Humans.

Humans exhibit qualities of anger and revenge. It's sad really, but I am using that to my advantage: If anyone from the team that tried to kill me knew I was lying, they probably suspected I was on the other team. They may have believed I am Soverign or the Illusive Man, for instance, who survives the first kill against him.

To put it in the simplest terms:

If someone tried to kill me, that team knows I lied when I said "Tuck and roll bitches." They know my "claim" was fake. Votes against me then, are attempts to gain credibility by lynching mafia, but I'm not mafia.

Long Con's reaction to my initial Vega claim (and being nervous ) makes me most suspicious of him. He didn't vote for me until after I claimed (I didn't claim ). He wants to lynch me so he can get credit for lynching mafia...only I'm not mafia.

I'm machine.

Tuck and roll bitches.

My initial plan was to withhold all this until exactly one hour before the end of the Day. Instead I think it's best that I'm giving the civilians a chance to actually do something right. If you don't, oh well, but it doesn't concern me. I don't care if I get lynched, because if I do, I can be aligned with the Reapers and that fucks you out of a lynch against them, thereby improving my own chance to win. I'm telling you this now so that you, Alliance people, get your heads out of your asses and make me want to align with you. The downside is that I probably kept one of you alive last Night by absorbing the Night kill target and now I cannot repeat the procedure because I will not be targeted. Oh well. I don't like the bad logic I've seen today. Do better.

Right now my projections currently predict the civilians getting positively hosed.

You have the opportunity to change that.

The question is

C:\WILLYOU>_

what the hap is fuckening

Fredwood wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Though likely Jack just hasn't caught up to your plot twist yet.

I'm caught up but I admit, I kinda skimmed Epi's long thing where he explained that being immune to non lethal actions means you don't avoid kills.

What did I miss?

He's claiming Geth now. Who can side with Reaper or Civ after 3rd day. He's not immune to a NK he's saying that he thinks Mafia targeted him last night and failed their night kill, because supposedly they targeted him. Then tried to push to lynch him because they thought he was the don of the other mafia and are trying to get him lynched because it will buy them cred. He's then saying the mafia knows the Vega claim is BS because Vega doesn't avoid lethal actions.

In the end, I think he's saying lynch Long Con or I'll side with the Reapers. I am just an extra fragile human after all so I probably missed something.

ok, so he thinks LC is bad because he "caught" the fake claim? iiiiinteresting.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:Gotta drive home so I will catch up later tonight, I am putting down a vote on Jack cause I do not want to miss another vote, and I am almost certain he is scum based on his game play up to where I've read.

Fredwood wrote: SIlver - Still feels like he's playing a parody of himselfinstead of actually playing himself...it's a shitty reason for suspicion because it's hard to pin down why I think that, but I said it before it feels like he's relying too much on his reputation for being aggressive, and not actually being aggressive.

Exactly.

The key thing to remember about Silver is that his fits feel genuine when he's town. You Syndicate folks remember his behavior in Phenom? How everyone was so sure he was town?

Is he doing that for you now? Or does he feel like he's pretending?

Hm, yeah, no, Silver definitely doesn't seem the same as in Phenon. Based on my experience of him in that game I'd expect him to be more engaged as a civ.

Silver Lantern wrote:

gfishfunk wrote: I second this. Silver Town has a gallon jub of gasoline. Silver Scum is reserved (for Silver).

Hey Gfish, when did YOU stop beating your wife?

My god, everyone toting this bullshit "Silver is being too passive" line is full of it. I either explode and act like a god damn powder keg or I'm not town? How am I supposed to react to that crap? I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. You guys make it seem like I have never played a game where I am passive and skate as town...

And I don't like this post. Silver's reading pretty scummy to me atm.

TonyStarkPrime wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

TonyStarkPrime wrote: I voted for Jack because I want him to claim, not because I necessarily want to lynch him. I didn't vote for Nifty because I don't think he needs to claim right now if he doesn't want to, I just think he has been pinging me so far today. Jack pinged me a lot yesterday by playing a rather unusual game and not acting as I would expect, but that isn't anything related to anything he said in game, especially today. The difference for me with Nifty is he, or at least my interpretation of him, seemed to want to lynch Epi just as much as everyone else did at the time, despite focusing post of his posting on him. To me, if he were town, I would call it tunneling, but when he moved his vote away it suggested to me that he had tested the waters and wanted to try moving away for a while.

I don't like his vote on me either, but I can understand it.

Is that all? I'd rather not but I've narrowed myself down to what? 8 characters? (I haven't played ME2 or ME3 so I don't know how many lady good guys there are off the top of my head.) Plus, given the setup, I don't think claiming is that big of a deal.

Who are you voting for if you aren't voting for me?

Can you explain the second bit, there? What did I do that you wouldn't expect or what did I not do that you would expect?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: There are many reasons to distrust Jack, but I feel that this whole rainbow issue seems off for both of you.

How so?

I am voting for you to put my vote somewhere. You have acted quieter this game than I would expect, with a larger portion of your content being unfocused. That said, that is also significantly different than I would expect if you were maf, so I don't know how much I can count that against you.
It isn't that important for you to claim if you don't want to, I guess saying that you are a girl Shepard can romance with is a specific enough clue. But a claim from you would alleviate my suspicions.

I think the rainbow thing is off for Dom because he is mentioning it with alarming frequency. I think it is a little off for you because you almost use it as an excuse to avoid answering questions. I don't understand the benefit of either of you bringing it up, so I don't see why it keeps going on.


Two quick guesses on what I think the mafia teams could be, just for fun:

JOH
Dom (Long Con?)
Nifty

Silver
Nutella
MP

If Epi is telling the truth and is mostly correct, one of the maf teams targeted him for a kill. That team includes Long Con, according to his suspicions, but because I am currently operating under the assumption that JOH is maf (maybe a terrible idea), and I think the other maf likely killed CBob, since that is a goal JOH seemed to be pushing for the first day and he would not want to be suspect of that. I don't think a team with 2+ hcrealms members would likely target CBob night one, but I have three most suspect members from hcrealms, so I would then put one of them with JOH. Since in my awesome fantasy land, Dom is trying to bus JOH right now, I am putting him as the second member of that team, but with Long Con subbing in because that seems a little on the fantastical side. I don't think JOH and Silver are on the same maf team, so Nifty takes the third slot. The other team fills itself out, starting with Silver and moving to two others I suspect. MP seems like a strong character to be influenced by JOH and Silver seems like he would try something else, but who knows.



And an almost identical guess without JOH as maf:

Nifty
Adam
Long Con

Silver
Nutella
spirityo


Kind of edit: I do like Silver's new posts, that might change my guesses.

Why me? Have you explained suspicion of me elsewhere?

No, and I hate to harp on TSP, because he often doesn't state his reasons or logic unless you really push him, which does come of scummy but doesn't always mean scummy. But the majority of his lists seem like he's taking the aggregate of everyone else's lists. The other explanation is that he actually agrees with the aggregate.

To me, I think your biggest detractor is currently pining everyone as their strongest town read and keeps building on that reputation with strong logical posts. The fact that Wilgy likes you for scum is pretty much the only context any of the Realmsers have for suspecting you, however fair or not that is, it seems to be the case. To me I have concerns but it's too early to tell and may just be some time constraint issues.

So Jack, since Spirit isn't here, is there a reason you haven't answered his question? It seems to be a sticking point for him that you haven't answered it yet.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:This is awesomely wack.

Is Epi's behavior consistent with neutral Epi? Or Epi trying to draw some scum voters into a trap?

This is a very poor question. I'm neutral right now. If I can draw Reapers into a trap, and it is successful, I have an incentive to side with the Alliance. Right now I have no reason to side with the Alliance, and if I draw the lynch, that's cool too, because you burn a lynch on me instead of a Reaper.

I fucking love this role.

You know that (supposedly). I don't know that.

If you're Geth, that's one thing. If you're the Illusive Man or the Thorian or Aria or Soverign, that's something entirely different. It's important to figure out which we're dealing with, here.

You know this, though. Sometimes, I feel like you dismissing legitimate lines of thinking as stupid because it would be easier for you if those lines of thinking were dismissed. Weakens your arguments, imo.

Biggest issue with Illusive Man/Sovereign was there was no need to blow up his fake claim. Most people, myself included, were fine with the assumption that he was Vega and had moved on. If he's Don he's not blowing up his own spot, unless he thinks he's so superior to us that he wants to make it a challenge. The gambit is silly now, but downright stupid if he's actually a Don.

I do think it's likely he is Geth and I do think it's likely he thinks LC is some sort of scum guy. Even though he's saying that he's not demanding it, he's still saying vote LC or you guys are really stupid.

Epignosis wrote:I know what I'm doing.

I'm saying it doesn't matter to me. I think you're wrong about your interpretation of what a hostile independent is, but I just like arguing. In the long game, no matter who is right about the interpretation, I still don't see how you matter all that much to civ even if you align with Reapers.

Epignosis wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Fair enough...then you matter even less then.

Fredwood wrote:Lol actually no, you misread it.

You will become non-hostile to the side you choose...you still will be hostile to the alignments you don't choose. The underlined portion is saying that your existence won't determine the winner based on numbers. Basically you win with them but you don't have any affect on their win condition.

Please point to the wording of my role that says I will be hostile to alignments I don't choose. That makes no sense.

Because any independent that can't win with you is hostile to you. Your win condition will specifically align with win condition of the faction you choose. If you look at all other independent none of them say specifically that they are hostile, they just have specific win conditions. If your win condition conflicts with Cerberus' win condition, then you are a hostile independent to Cerberus, as you cannot win with them.

The Leviathan is a hostile independent to whomever has their "Don" left, etc. It may be semantics and I'm reading context because the lack of the actual wording hostile in any of the independents role explanations, it's safe to assume that any independent that cannot win with you is considered hostile to you.

In the end I don't think it matters much, because, even if they don't care if you're alive at the end, and then realize they need to kill you, it shouldn't matter that much to them, as they can just, you know, kill you. Semantically both explinations have the same outcome.

In general scum don't like the neutrals, they're relatively town friendly, even you don't really help Reapers that much even if you align with them.

Essentially if there is One Reaper, You and one non Reaper left, the game won't automatically end because there's a chance that you don't know who you're allied with.

Lol actually no, you misread it.

You will become non-hostile to the side you choose...you still will be hostile to the alignments you don't choose. The underlined portion is saying that your existence won't determine the winner based on numbers. Basically you win with them but you don't have any affect on their win condition.

Fair enough...then you matter even less then.

They don't have to NK you, they could just eliminate everyone and lynch you when they need to. In fact all factions can pretty much just kite you along until they need to eliminate you.

Epignosis wrote:

Fredwood wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Here's a fun fact:

S~V~S tends to say I'm good when she's bad. She won't hesitate to go after me if she's good.

That's a trend. See Lost Again 3 that just finished up.

Frankly I really don't see the benefit of Civ going after you right now.

If you're telling the truth, Cerberus will eventually kill you. If you're lying or don't side with the other side, Reapers will know by the end of day 3 and will eventually kill you.

No they won't. Cerberus doesn't need me dead to win. My existence doesn't count against them. I am a Turf Wars Prisoner, a glorious thing to be: If they want me out because I am too uncomfortable, they will have to waste a Night kill on me.

Ditto the Reapers.

You would be a hostile independent...so yeah they would need you dead to win.

Hey, I'm saying you're pretending to be angry not that you're passive. It's even more nebulous and harder to defend against, quite frankly it's a dick move.

Epignosis wrote:Here's a fun fact:

S~V~S tends to say I'm good when she's bad. She won't hesitate to go after me if she's good.

That's a trend. See Lost Again 3 that just finished up.

Frankly I really don't see the benefit of Civ going after you right now.

If you're telling the truth, Cerberus will eventually kill you. If you're lying or don't side with the other side, Reapers will know by the end of day 3 and will eventually kill you.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Though likely Jack just hasn't caught up to your plot twist yet.

I'm caught up but I admit, I kinda skimmed Epi's long thing where he explained that being immune to non lethal actions means you don't avoid kills.

What did I miss?

He's claiming Geth now. Who can side with Reaper or Civ after 3rd day. He's not immune to a NK he's saying that he thinks Mafia targeted him last night and failed their night kill, because supposedly they targeted him. Then tried to push to lynch him because they thought he was the don of the other mafia and are trying to get him lynched because it will buy them cred. He's then saying the mafia knows the Vega claim is BS because Vega doesn't avoid lethal actions.

In the end, I think he's saying lynch Long Con or I'll side with the Reapers. I am just an extra fragile human after all so I probably missed something.

Though likely Jack just hasn't caught up to your plot twist yet.

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: I think Epi is good.

I'm a toaster.

But you have the potential to be good. Everyone needs toast.

You know what would be really funny if the Mafia never actually targeted you and they just happened to target the Thorian, or the other Don and that whole dramatic reveal wasn't needed. Either way, Cerberus can be real dickheads huh?

Dom wrote:...is there precident for JAck choosing to not engage because he has no repsonse?

I think where you're involved no precedent matters lol.

I will say you're the only player that I have seen to fluster Jack, so there's that at least.