CaptainNifty wrote:
I've numbered the things I'm responding to. If I miss any important points let me know, and I'll come back to it.
[1] Yes, gfish was low on my list, but as I've stated just because a person is high on my list doesn't mean they're right, and just because they're low doesn't make them wrong. I was following Epi because gfish claimed to have blocked someone and their was only one kill. In the Realms this is a lead. I wanted to follow it. Epi was combative, abrasive, and evasive, this didn't look good for him. I followed the information, not the person.
[2] Rainbows are relatively new in my mafia toolbelt. I rarely explain them, but would have been happy to had anyone asked, and I will offer more explanation in the future.
[3]Again, I followed the information. You screwed up. We all do. In Realms terms you had a reverse OMAC. It worked for me. Enough people posted that convinced me I was stupid for not buying your claim. I stopped being stupid (about that).
[4]I had been trying to respond for awhile, but class kept getting in the way. I decided to submit the post anyway without catching up on the thread.
[5]I answered the question asked, and then offered additional information. Out of the 3 Jack proposed, Epi was my preferred lynch. I was voting for TSP partially defensively and because his earlier posts had bothered me. I was not feeling particularly strongly about this vote and was willing to move it to Silver (who Jack had also asked about in a separate post) depending on what else was said.
[6]It was 2:15. My class would end in 30 minutes, then it's after school duty until 3:30. Then there's always the chance that admin needs something during that last 30 minutes. Then it's 20 minutes home. Then I get home and have a wife, 4 kids, dog and 7 ducks who might or might not need some level of attention. So yeah, 4 hours left in the phase was time to take a stand because I didn't know if I would have time to vote again.
[7]While Wigly had asked for votes on fish prior to that the only ones over there were Epi and nutella. While Wigly definitely seems to be civ, Epi was an all but confirmed hostile neutral, and nutella was a major scum read for everybody. I didn't really want to jump on that train. However, Wigly got some verbal commitments, so I moved my vote. You weren't exactly excited to move there yourself
[8]I promise this post had no motivation other than to pass on my own observations. Scum seem to be just as good at hunting scum if not better. To give some more observations, I actually think the Reapers have a bit of an advantage. Cerberus has one that cops as Alliance, and Alliance has at least 2 that cop as Cerberus. This isn't to say don't trust cops. You always trust the cop until you can't, but I was making an observation. I have said many times that the town is better off when it shares information. That's all I was doing.
Fredwood wrote:So you wanted a role claim and information when your second best scum read gives shaky evidence, but when a strong town read has a large lists of grievances you just hope it goes away and withhold info, you know how you were saying Epi was scummy for withholding info.
I'm pretty sure I know what you you're going to claim, and admit it's a good claim, but the because you didn't do it before, in fact you completely dismissed me will trump the claim.
I don't think gfish's evidence was shaky (at least not by Realms' standards), and it wasn't just gfish's evidence. Epi had been pinging me since his nighttime conversation with Long Con. I didn't do this breakdown because as I said originally, I didn't think that anything I could say would be satisfactory to you. You still haven't said what would make you happy with me. I would have offered it if you had said. I would have tried for Wigly, but you were the one who was doubting me, so I thought it would go further with you, plus scum certainly wouldn't be expecting you to do something.
1:
A Roleblock is not a good lead when it's a blind roleblock on N1 and there's about 60 reasons why the missed kill is missed because the killer is blocked. A roleblock is a good final piece of evidence not a good piece of evidence when it's the only evidence you have. If this was day 4 and there was a miskill and Gfish claimed that he RB'd Epi it would be a completely reasonable line of questioning in my mind. The whole reason Gfish pinged scum in the first place was because he was pushing the theory so hard. Granted that's game theory and not indicative of guilt or innocence.
I just have a hard time viewing as Gfish's pressure as little more then random (or I don't like this guy pressure) with a little bit of oh and I have a lead tacked on for cover.
2. That's fine. What was more concerning is that it felt more aggregate of everyone else's suspicions rather then your own, especially with the lack of explination or previous interaction with other players.
4. Thin but plausible I guess, I remember it being kind of slow, but fine.
5. (shrug) It feels more like muddling the options and less like trying to be helpful.
6. The timing isn't to point anything else other then the timeline because I start jumping around in the next few posts. My biggest issue here is the fact that you chose Epi...and the finality of the statement, I don't know your schedule, so if you felt you couldn't make it back in time, I didn't know, to me that's the minor issue here.
Back to the fact that you chose Epi. Fish...still a scum read for you was still pushing the safe epi lynch. Wilgy, myself, and even you (in a post where he starts talking about math) about going for the safe option was not in the town's best interest. Yet, you still join Gfish (who still is at the bottom of your list as far as I know), Jack (another low level poster), and Long Con (early in the day he was high on your list, by the end of the day he was on the bottom of most peoples list) and Dys (who was at best placeholding because Diz was afk). Of those 5 people, Jack was voting for self preservation, LC was voting for something else entirely, and you and fish were the only ones voting because it was safe.
If you vote Jack here, Jack is likely lynched, and the case against you is almost non existent and I'm left with just my guts. If you took a stand on Jack being town, or even that you actually felt Epi was really reaper, that would have been one thing, but in the end you sided with a guy who you felt was the best lynch target, using his own logic and case to lynch someone else that was directly opposing a number of your high civ reads, and gridlock the vote, which is even more damning now that you felt you weren't going to be on to change your vote later. Regardless if you think Epi is better lynch then Jack, you stated before that you felt Jack was a good lynch target as well, you side with your reads, because why bother having them.
7. No, the traction part isn't the issue, the fact that you never mention Gfish as the best target is the problem. When asked specifically of which of the three suspects (Fish, Epi, and Jack) well before the end of the phase, you say Epi was. When Wilgy specifically asks people to start at least alternate pressure on Fish, you resist, non only do you resist you say that just because He's town doesn't mean he's right. NONE of that, would lead me to believe that you feel Fish is the best target for lynching. If you said Hey "WIlgy, you changed my mind, or hey Wilgy I'm trusting you here since I believe you are town" Yeah, cool, but instead you said "I thought fish was the best lynch all along, but I didn't tell anyone, and actually told everyone the opposite because I didn't think anyone would want to lynch him, even though a number of people continually brought him up as a lynch target"
When you responded to WIlgy about gfish, no one had even voted for Fish at that point, so the defense that there wasn't enough people on the train is moot, the question wasn't about whether or not you thought Fish would get lynched, you said you felt Wilgy was wrong. I had no reservations about lynching fish, and yeah, I thought Jack followed by FIsh was the best lynch and made that clear. Additionally you missed the post before that I would be willing to vote for Fish, but I didn't have a lot of faith in the town at that point to lynch either Jack or Fish. So yes, when I switched, I looked at the list, and saw You, Epi, and Jack all on the fish vote, I made note of it and said I was trusting Wilgy's play. I didn't say "Oh I thought all along that this was the best play"
8. I only added it because it was the first thing that bothered me about you. I knew there was a perfectly good explination for it, which is why I didn't bring it up at the time. Instead... I took note and paid more attention to what you did.
Fine you wanted to lynch epi because he was a jerk, I get that. I still think your biggest problem is the fact that you said you felt fish was a better lynch target then epi, when your actions and statements leading up to that point did not suggest that.
Make me happy? What? You completely dismissed the post. I'm not an unreasonable person, in fact I've called a number of people to task during this game, and with the majority of them they at least answered my line of thought directly, or generally satisfactorily enough to appease me. Maybe the length and depth of the ISO was too much and you thought I was in a "THERES NO ANSWER THAT CAN MAKE ME HAPPY WITH YOU." But guess what, a claim, and a couple of your points would have dissipated my concerns enough that I would have let you pass for the time being. I'm not a tunneller, I've tried to say what specifically bothers me about people and if they have a plausible enough explanation to what I confronted them about, I'm willing to grant some leeway and give them the chance to prove their towniness. If anyone thinks I have a reputation for being bullheaded and obstinate let me know, but I felt the total dismissal of my concerns was about the worst thing you could have done if you wanted to make me "happy". Plus how could you not know what I wanted to hear, I stated why you were pinging me and in all but a few exceptions you gave me a reasonable explanation.
As to choosing me over Wilgy, man I don't know what I feel about that. You didn't double check with the mods to see if your power would even work with me since I was stripped of all my abilities? I really don't know what to do here, because there is an easy solution to prove your innocence, but now that's less likely to happen since now it's pretty much out in the open, and there's not a whole lot of strategizing the town can do in the open. I don't want to blow up the spot, so it might be best if you actually claimed and everyone else can go from there with how they want to deal with you.
