The Syndicate

Actually I did vote, but I couldn't post in thread.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:11 pm @fredwood

I changed my opinion in jack because I had dizzy placed as a null and jack as opposite, in my mind, with tension that jack had against Dyslexicon, I find him more than likely to be telling the truth now about his role

This makes no sense...you thought he could be a Reaper...there was no way he was a Reaper, the Diz lynch doesn't alter this at all. Generally you should have the same read on Jack before as now, the timing now just seems convenient since you were so sure last phase and nothing of note changed in the game state regarding Jack.

I find it strange that Spirit is suddenly high on Jack, and why Raven is suddenly high on Spirit. I don't see how the Dizzy lynch would change my mind on either of them. I especially don't buy that there was a possibility in anyone's mind that Silver and Jack were teammates, I don't know if this is sirengif, but this is very concerning.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:04 am

Fredwood wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:56 am I am a little concerned that if she was Saren, why aren't more people vanilla?

It's a two shot and one of them hit you, right? Lotsa dead players that can't say they were vanillaed. I wouldn't say if I was vanillaed.

Regarding the possibility of forged Reaper autopsies, I can't see why you would do that. Making a doggie appear town or making a townie look like a doggie throws the town off track. We look for the mafia buddies of a townie or ignore scummy defense of a doggie. You could accidentally frame a bot as a dog and that mostly does the same thing.

Cerberus wants to look like they are hunting Reapers and Cerberus. So creating false leads for Cerberus players is useful to maintaining this illusion. Hunting for real Reapers and fake Reapers would make them look bad.

Even forging a townie as another townie could make whoever really has that role look bad or paint one of the two townies as Cerberus.

I don't see any reason to forge a player to look like a Reaper.

No I was vanillafied because EDI died, I just jumped to conclusions because I thought any information was good information.

That's a fair point, I guess, Obviously I would say that I was made vanilla, but others may not.

However, what are the benefits of Cerberus masking someone Reaper? I can see Cerberus masking town as Cerberus, or maybe masking one of their own Reaper, but town would make more sense. Still, doens't make sense that they wouldn't use her most powerful abilities.

I am a little concerned that if she was Saren, why aren't more people vanilla?

Longest day phase ever.

I think Dizzy, much like LC, no one really has much reason not to vote for her.

It must be a secret code, I can't find the Dalek emoji anywhere.

Yeah AC is a pain. Just goe's for the first A option

Neither Haddaway or HK-47 are in Mass Effect

So you want to kill Shephard. Got it.

To be fair, his list looks a lot like my plus/minus list from this morning, except I wasn't voting for those at the top.

S~V~S wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:
I haven't sheeped...I said, I'll vote for MP, IR, LC, and SVS unless someone changes my mind on them. Your defense hasn't swayed me, so then it reverts to meta assessment...I have no meta assessment. Long Con has been active and also have given no reason for me not to lynch him. So it makes sense from a play standpoint that you lynch the active that hasn't given you anything over the inactive that haven't given you anything.

But I have nearly 200 posts. And while I haven't given much, to say I haven't given "anything" is just a bit insulting and just not true. I'm trying my best with this game while I'm here; that much should be evident. I have interaction with a flipped member of one scum faction. So I just don't understand how you can then have no opinion of me whatsoever.

This^^

Maybe part of the problem I am having is that you, Fred, are a thread leader and are steering the thread quite a bit. But I absolutely do not understand how you are coming to the conclusions you're coming to. It's a culture thing, not a you thing. But it is still blocking my understanding to some extent.

I could go into how most of those posts are from Day 0 or Day 1, but frankly I'm hurting everyone's feelings..

Ah well, I'm an asshole bully I guess. Fair enough, I already felt bad for Nifty and Spirit pressure, I don't know how I'm being mean, so I'll back off on involvement as to not make everyone feel like it's a necessity to fall on their swords even though no one I've pressured ended up being lynched. Seriously it's like the 3rd time it's been pulled on me this game alone, so the problem is with me.

Ugh...I haven't demanded a claim from anyone, in fact, I just said role claims are weak...I really don't see how I'm arrogant. I literally said, you both have turned this into an attack on you, and you keep harping on things that aren't the discussion. If you don't want to claim, then is there a reason why we shouldn't vote for you. The fact that you guys keep reverting to the claim persecution almost feels like you don't have any other defense (even if you're town) and you feel like we're trapping people into claiming.

I pressured TSP, who didn't claim, I pressured Nifty who did and I took their information into account and backed off because it affected my read and made them less of a threat in my mind. You both pressured Adam previously, and I was satisfied with his response to that interaction.

If you guys feel overwhelmed, I sympathize, but no one is trapping anyone into claiming, but in response to your pressure, you didn't give me any new information or perspective I already had. Especially when everyone was giving you the LongCon out without spelling it out.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Spoiler: show

Fredwood wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:It's POE time, you're all acting like martyrs cus you don't have time and you all think Jack is bad...

Tell me where I've said this. You're lying right now.

Yeah...you just haven't mentioned Jack by name. Unless you're saying someone else isn't town that we're not pressuring, because we're all so blindly following them.

I've not said that I think JOH is bad, so please don't misrepresent that. That's what you did. I don't think you did so out of malice, but if you all are gonna lynch me at least don't misrepresent my views.

I'm not even voting for you...I'm saying Wilgy has final say when it comes to Syndicate players.

Right you're remaining non-commital now about Jack, now that I've pointed out the similarities in your defense. I'll admit to generalization, when your "caution" was generalized and not directed specifically at Jack, but it was still attacking the evaluation of what are viewed as unlikely lynches. So yes you didn't mention Jack by name, but it's still the same argument that X can still be bad, pedantry isn't a defense because it's just a round about way of attacking anyone who isn't being actively pressured.

Why the hell does Wilgy have final say? Can you not read what I'm saying and come to your own conclusion? Sheeping like that is crazy dangerous. No one should ever let meta assessments define their hunting that badly. Come to your own conclusion of me.

I haven't sheeped...I said, I'll vote for MP, IR, LC, and SVS unless someone changes my mind on them. Your defense hasn't swayed me, so then it reverts to meta assessment...I have no meta assessment. Long Con has been active and also have given no reason for me not to lynch him. So it makes sense from a play standpoint that you lynch the active that hasn't given you anything over the inactive that haven't given you anything.

Seriously with the Claim crosses... if you don't want to claim in a game with 11 fake claims, that is designed to devalue the role claim, then that's just silly. Wilgy, nut, Jack, Adam, IR, Dyz, SVS and LC all haven't claimed, of those who have claimed still left, only 3 have done it while under pressure. The other person that did claim under pressure got lynched anyway,...you know because his claim was bad and was inconsistent with what his actions. Epi fake claimed under pressure, then claimed once pressure was lifted. So this insistence to keep harping on this point as we're all stupid slaves to the role claim is absurd.

It's up to you to defend yourselves and how you do it. I really don't care if you claim or not, I don't like not giving any defense other then you're stupid for not voting for Jack over me. Jack is for sure not Reaper, and I still haven't seen a valid reason why a Scum player sits on a piece of information for 2 to 3 night phases, when he could have just as easily killed the target, instead of waiting to buy himself cred on day 4, when he's not likely to get lynched Day 4 anyway. Jack may end up being bad, but for now he's given me more of a reason not to vote for him then you have.

Additionally, there's just as much chance that your role is forged as anyone else's or Jack's even, so no, I doubt we learn anything useful from your death, especially as you went into last night's phase as a possible lynch.

S~V~S wrote:Wilgy has seen me fall on my sword before, he'll understand. Although I gotta say, you clear people too easily, Fred.

Lynch LC tomorrow. Although I really would rather you lynch Jack

I've only cleared 2 people. There are some I'm less willing to vote for then others.

Well I always said I was deferring to Wilgy in regards to you 3...shrug.

I think we have an hour left, so hopefully not too late to push for a CFD.

Wilgy wants to vote LC, so Wilgy having the most experience with him, I'm willing to CFD to LC because of that. He would have a better grasp on SVS and MP.

Wilgy wants to vote LC, so Wilgy having the most experience with him, I'm willing to CFD to LC because of that. He would have a better grasp on SVS and MP.

Adam wrote:

Fredwood wrote:

Adam wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Distancing...she just said she's okay in her book.

For the ease of the reader, I've changed all the gender-related pronouns

That was a joke post more then anything.

Mine was also a joke post. Arrested Development.

Ah, Haven't watched AD in a while, need to change that I guess.

There are people on our do not lynch list who have not claimed. I'm not sure why they're trying to make the argument about forcing people to role claim. It's up to you to defend yourselves, we're clearly not relying on claims to clear people.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:It's POE time, you're all acting like martyrs cus you don't have time and you all think Jack is bad...

Tell me where I've said this. You're lying right now.

Yeah...you just haven't mentioned Jack by name. Unless you're saying someone else isn't town that we're not pressuring, because we're all so blindly following them.

I've not said that I think JOH is bad, so please don't misrepresent that. That's what you did. I don't think you did so out of malice, but if you all are gonna lynch me at least don't misrepresent my views.

I'm not even voting for you...I'm saying Wilgy has final say when it comes to Syndicate players.

Right you're remaining non-commital now about Jack, now that I've pointed out the similarities in your defense. I'll admit to generalization, when your "caution" was generalized and not directed specifically at Jack, but it was still attacking the evaluation of what are viewed as unlikely lynches. So yes you didn't mention Jack by name, but it's still the same argument that X can still be bad, pedantry isn't a defense because it's just a round about way of attacking anyone who isn't being actively pressured.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Stop lumping us all together. I haven't made the same reads and I haven't said all the same things as S~V~S. That's YOUR fault for thinking that.

Attacking the process because we're not voting for people who have positive check marks over people who have no check marks, voting for yourself because you guys won't believe us anyway and we don't want to claim because it doesn't change anything.

Seems pretty similar defenses, or lack of defense to me. Just because you're not ramming Jack is bad theory down our throats doesn't mean it's not the same Tact...you're just less obvious about it because you're only espousing the virtues of not clearing anybody at this point.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:It's POE time, you're all acting like martyrs cus you don't have time and you all think Jack is bad...

Tell me where I've said this. You're lying right now.

Yeah...you just haven't mentioned Jack by name. Unless you're saying someone else isn't town that we're not pressuring, because we're all so blindly following them.

lol...You and SVS and to an extent LC are all playing the same defense. With you and SVS it's almost identical even to the extent that you're both voting for yourself. Instead of actually defending yourself you're attacking the process of playing the game that even you guys play.

It's POE time, you're all acting like martyrs cus you don't have time and you all think Jack is bad...I don't care about lack of time, it's cool, it's why you, SVS and IR have lasted this long, because it's only fair. However we've stated clearly that we're going after unknowns this phase...you are clearly an unknown, Jack is not an unknown, not only is he is not an unknown, he's done two things that are rather pro-town.

Who said anything about coasting, and role claiming. If you think a role claim is the only way you can get more information out about yourself then do it, if you don't give us another reason to at least give you a chance to prove yourself.

Day 2 I was nearly 90 percent sure Nifty was scum, I even made a number of indepth analytical posts...guess what, he responded (eventually) gave me a reason to give him time to prove himself, and now he's relatively high on my town list. That was somebody I ACTIVELY SUSPECTED, and I still gave him a chance. I don't actively suspect you, I know nothing about you, so don't insult me by saying I'm voting for you because you're coasting and not taking into account all information I have available, when that's the whole point of this entire exercise...to get more damn information on you to make a better decision. Playing the victim, when Nifty's continued existence is proof of my lack of intransigence, and voting for yourself is not the way to convince me that you shouldn't be voted for.

I mean you're all acting like this is extremely difficult, there's a list of about 6 people, you literally don't have to be the fastest person, you just don't have to be slowest in order to not get eaten by the bear.

Fredwood wrote:Frankly, I'll let WIlgy make the call on Syndicate players, they're all playing literally the exact same defense. So absence of a meta read on any of them it's his call.

EWIOP

Frankly, I'll let WIlgy make the call on Syndicate players, they're all playing literally the exact same defense. So absense of a meta read on any of him, it's his call.

Adam wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Distancing...she just said she's okay in her book.

For the ease of the reader, I've changed all the gender-related pronouns

That was a joke post more then anything.

Long Con wrote:

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:The thing is, Jack, I don't think S~V~S is prone to tunnelling like this without good reason. This assuredness in her suspicion of you smells like something more.

Back to that pesky missing Night 1 kill... her behaviour toward you matches what I believe we'd see from her if her Mafia team tried and failed to kill you.

If you say so, brah.

Thought the mafia went after Epi due to their missed kill.

I guess we'll know after the game is over. Until then, we theorize about what might have happened.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Since your arguement is that SVS and I are both mafia, though, why don't you vote SVS?

You wouldn't be defending your scumbuddy would you, -1?

That's not my name, and did you get the impression that I was defending S~V~S? She seemed to hold a different view: "No it doesn't and you know it." And if I end up voting for S~V~S, I'll do it when I damn well please... brah.

It just seems like the solution to this almost solved game doesn't sit well with you, LC. I'll ask you again, how many baddies do I have to lynch before you are sure I'm bad, too? It's about to be three. I make it though the night and I'm certain it will be four.

I'm pleased as punch about the almost solved game. It would have been remiss of me to not bring it up to the thread. It's a possibility. I'm sorry, but I've seen too many Mafias bus too many teammates to have my skirt blown up by the fact that you have been a part of one lynch of a suspected teammate.

I can tell it's really important to you to be viewed as Supatown Hero here, but that doesn't impress me either. If you think that you're going to intimidate me by cranking up your suspicion of me every time I look a little closer at you, then you don't know jack about me, Jack.

If no one else thinks that that scenario is likely, then so be it. I'm not going to tunnel it into the ground, just putting it out there. People who know S~V~S should confirm or refute the idea.

Jesus shut up about Jack. Bottom line, even if Jack is a god-tier mafia player that everyone is so deathly afraid of, he has far more going for him then you, SVS, IR and MP. You railing on Jack at this point just makes you look scum because you're not presenting anything concrete other then "GUYS MEMBER WHEN ALL THESE PEEPLE THOUGHT JACK WAS BAD????!!!?", or "JACK COULD STILL TOTALLY BE BAD YOU GUISE." Bottom line, we'd lynch you before lynching Jack, because you know, he's done more for town.

Seriously, Jack's known TSP has been Shep for like 2 or 3 night phases (long enough for him to try and kill him)...why does scum Jack not just kill Shep. You really think any scum player would withold this information just to buy credibility on Day 4, when by that time most of the SUPATOWN had moved off of him as a primary lynch candidate anyway?

Fredwood wrote:

TonyStarkPrime wrote:Wilgy says Hi and this is his message:

Now that everyone knows my personal life, the best order for POE lynching is probably as follows:
MP, IR, SVS, LC, and go from there.
That is to safely remove unknowns from the game. We only have 4 days until NK's catch up with confirmed civs and then it's back to figuring shit out.

I'm cool with any of them, it's all POE based, SVS was my choice because I figured she would actually have time to defend themselves. Switching to MP is just as cool for me, I don't have anything solid on any of them.

EWIOP, I figured she would actually have time to defend themselves and was the only one that I had a reading on.

TonyStarkPrime wrote:Wilgy says Hi and this is his message:

Now that everyone knows my personal life, the best order for POE lynching is probably as follows:
MP, IR, SVS, LC, and go from there.
That is to safely remove unknowns from the game. We only have 4 days until NK's catch up with confirmed civs and then it's back to figuring shit out.

I'm cool with any of them, it's all POE based, SVS was my choice because I figured she would actually have time to defend themselves. Switching to MP is just as cool for me, I don't have anything solid on any of them.

I'm not following on your Nut logic. You mean how she made Nifty say he targeted her?

I think the voting record is her best defense, it at least puts her well above the bottom list. If nut isn't town then I have to reassess my entire mafia worldview.

We can always save Spirit and IR for last then. I think info dump favors Spirit. And I'm with you, Adam is a crafty bastard.

I went and changed my vote to SVS, her defense today really bothered me. Of all the 5 she's the one I'm most sure of being some kind of baddie. I'm flexible though, should keep LC around, maybe he convinces his team to kill him again.

I seriously doubt Jack has that level of mastermind in him. There's too many moving pieces for you not to be Shep, and if he's scum he doesn't out the info...I seriously don't see how anyone who is scum shares that info.

So...we putting nut and Nifty in that list? I believe nut is town, so clearing Nifty is strong.

TSP, Me, Wilgy, Nut, Nifty...I'll go ahead and put you in there...cus I'm buddying now. So 6...depending on where you put the Geth that's 7.

So Out of the remaining 7 5 are bad guys... I'm still reading town on Adam, and the claim at least makes sense for Spirit, I'm willing to buy it over the rest of them.

Unless we're going to say Nut isn't good, then my numbers change.

Well if he votes enough townies off then he gets a renegade action as a one shot kill. So it makes sense, I remember the post at the time, but I thought he meant something else, didn't make the Shep connection. Ah well, my jump to conclusions are much more insane.

I buy it, I wasn't planning to vote Jack, Wilgy or TSP this day phase but it really changes things up.

Fry meme aside, care to say how you came to this groundbreaking information?

I thought Marmot was Shepherd.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

TonyStarkPrime wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I've assigned everyone alive a score and a rank.

DrWilgy = Hard 3
Fredwood = Hard 2
nutella = Hard 2
Dyslexicon = Soft 2
Adam = Hard 1
Jackofhearts2005 = Hard 1
CaptainNifty = Soft 1
sprityo = Softer 1
Immortal_Raven = Soft 0
MovingPictures07 = Soft 0
TonyStarkPrime = Softer 0
S~V~S = Softest 0
Long Con = Soft -1

Don't know what Hard and Soft are, the number is how many confirmed maf they have voted for.

If robots could feel love, I'd love you for trying.

Epi, where is your head at right now? Your play today has been odd, do you want to talk about it?

Probably not.

Yeah, I have nothing on Raven as well, which is why I listed him and a person of focus for this phase.

Aside from some interactions with Fish, I really haven't seen much noteworthy from him. I'm kind of lightly reading him as not Cerberus, I don't think he defends Fish if they're scummates, but with it being a new environment, I really don't know how to view the interaction so I've left it null.

TonyStarkPrime wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Tony

Who would you prefer?

IR or dizzy right now are my biggest suspects. I don't quite see the value in lynching Epi just because he isn't being the most helpful. A

I'm not pushing an Epi lynch, I have to vote for someone to see the polls, I missed all the stuff yesterday with Jack because I hadn't voted for someone.

Wilgy could be reaper, and I liked his logic day 2. I'm willing to give a pass on day 3. Regardless I can at least say something about him in regards to alignment.

Fredwood wrote:I'm not convinced of anything with SVS, or the other people I've mentioned. I'm saying I can't put her in any category, This is annoying for me to have such a large group of people for POE. I don't like the way she's defending herself other then that I got nothing.

Phone EWIOP

I'm not convinced of anything with SVS, or the other people I've mentioned. I'm saying I can't put her in any category, do ithe is annoying to have such a large group of people for POE. I don't like the way she's defending herself other then that I got nothing.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Cool, we lynching Epi this phase? Any reason, or just because he's a neutral?

My vote is placeholder at the moment, so if there are shenanigans my vote will be used for someone I don't give a crap about.

Additionally it's more to do with him being a cryptic and coy neutral then just a straight neutral that people are willing to vote him.