The Syndicate

With 5 and 5 on Epi and Jack, I need to take a side.

I'm voting Epi

Fredwood wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Can we aim to at leas make Gfish the alternate wagon?

Hmm... a thought. I'm damn near a unanimous town read. Yet little to no one is voting with me.

Who legitimately thinks that I am just wrong out of this group.

I think the bigger issue for me is the vote manipulation. Gfish is a good candidate, right now we have such a wide list of suspects that adding another leaves us open to vote manipulation having a greater effect on the outcome. I did list fish as an asterisk on my main post, but seeing as how nobody is really moving to a consensus of one or two people, pushing him felt like a dangerous proposition.

Jack moving to Epi of all the other options just keeps adding to the reason why I want to vote for Jack, despite my Risk/Reward analysis. Jack's defense doesn't feel like he's defending himself but trying to get us to look at other people we want to lynch. I think a townie Jack sticks to his guns on Silver, not switch to epi. There's been plenty of times I recall Jack not going for the easy lynch when he was town, going for the easy lynch now is suspect.

I will post this caveat. You've mostly seen Jack in majority games not plurality games. I know the plurality thing effects my voting.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Reapers:
They kill on Nights 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12 (and so on with even-numbered nights)

Cerberus:
They kill on Nights 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 13 (and so on with odd-numbered nights)

I meant to post this earlier. The fuck is this about?

Is this supposed to be a compromise between Realms rules where all scumteams kill every night and Syndicate rules where (based on the one double mafia Syndicate game I've played) the scum teams alternate between kill nights?

Seems very mathematical, doesn't it?

Number of mafia kills goes 2,1,1,2,1,1,2 then 1 for the rest of the game.

Noticed that too. I thought it was a Syndicate thing.

DrWilgy wrote:Can we aim to at leas make Gfish the alternate wagon?

Hmm... a thought. I'm damn near a unanimous town read. Yet little to no one is voting with me.

Who legitimately thinks that I am just wrong out of this group.

Just because I trust that your town, doesn't mean I think your right.

Same with Fred. I'm 100% Fred is town. That doesn't make him right.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Nifty

I have nothing more concrete on Silver. My read of him is purely based on him not trying to scumhunt (see Phenom and Superior Foes for contrast and Hybridity for comparison) and him going through the motions, attacking people for deflection rather than actually being mad or annoyed.

If you feel like he doesn't have anything he can really say to this, consider he has had several hours to put forth reads. Instead, he hops on the easiest train, mine. This is not town Silver behavior.

What would it take to get you to vote for Silver?

If it comes down to me and Epi or me and GFish, where are you voting?

I want to hear from Silver. His next post will determine if I vote for him or not.

I probably won't vote for you today at all. If your town your too valuable, and you've pinged enough people scum that if you are we can survive you another night. Out of the three of you I think Epi is the best lynch because he's safe, but right now I'm leaning silver.

I'm leaving my vote on TSP, because while I like that he's engaging, his reads are all bad.

gfishfunk wrote:Here is my line of thinking with Epi. Sorry if its a little math-ish.

Our goal is to keep the net value of the town high.
We have 9 alliance members left. Assume each alliance member is worth 10 points.
We have 6 scum left. Assume that each scum member is worth 0 points.
We have 2 independents left. Assume each independent is worth 0 points other than Epi.
Assume Epi is who he claims to be. He is worth 5 points.

The average random lynch decreases the town's net value by an average of 5.625 (this value does not include Epi, as that would not be random).

Epi is (at best) worth 5 points: as he has two options in front of him, turn alliance or turn reaper. The actual value is lower, however, considering that Epi will likely not gain the attention of evil night actions but still might gain the attention of alliance night actions. I would argue the town value at something like 3 or 4 due to that, but I digress. 5 is just fine of a value for now.

You can absolutely disagree with my reasoning its very simplified. Absent other information or strong feelings about a specific person, I would prefer to lynch Epi.

While I get your point about town value the fact that you think neutrals and scum hold the same value for the town is crazy. Scum should be worth negative as they actively lower the net value of the town.

And while I think your argument is good that a scum-friendly neutral is a better lynch than a civilian, I'm not that the "sure thing" of a neutral is better than getting scum.

I think I'd like to hear from those voting for Jack if they would accept any response from him to clear him. I would also like the silver detractors to provide something more concrete.

@Fred you aren't being paranoid. This is a real concern.

Long Con wrote:
CaptainNifty wrote:I haven't paid enough attention to the roles, so I went back and re-read them. Here are a couple of things I noticed.

1) Only Alliance has access to roleblocks as far as a i can tell.
2) Both Cerberus and Reapers seem to have access to as much investigative powers as the town.
3) Cerberus can poison through Kai Leng which would also explain one kill last night because we have one more kill coming.

I realize this isn't scum hunting so I apologize, but if I missed these things other townies might have as well.
1) There is a Cerberus role:

Oleg Petrovsky
You are an experienced and formidable military strategist focused on the preservation of humanity. Three times during the game during any separate night phases, you may select a player. That player’s role will not function.

That sounds like a roleblock to me.

2) What does this mean to you - why is it notable, from your perspective?

3) Good point that I hadn't factored in. Guess we'll know soon enough! I don't know if it's the type of one-shot that needs to get used early though.

1) I just crl+F "roleblock". I'll have to revise my search.
2) I think this is notable because it gives scum cover. Scum is empowered to scum hunt. This needs to be noted that just because a cop catches someone doesn't mean that cop is civ.

I haven't paid enough attention to the roles, so I went back and re-read them. Here are a couple of things I noticed.

1) Only Alliance has access to roleblocks as far as a i can tell.
2) Both Cerberus and Reapers seem to have access to as much investigative powers as the town.
3) Cerberus can poison through Kai Leng which would also explain one kill last night because we have one more kill coming.

I realize this isn't scum hunting so I apologize, but if I missed these things other townies might have as well.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Regarding wild speculation of Nifty as mafia, don't you think he would have killed me instead of Bob? I'm known for tunneling on town Nifty (though I think I've gotten better about this) so I'm dangerous for scum Nifty to have around.

I would have honestly killed bob night 1. A syndicate member tonight, probably MP. Then killed you night 3. I would have had an rb lock you down or a misdirector/busdriver keep you in check. Honestly, these days, I might just let you hang yourself. I'm trying desperately not to tunnel you. I think the worst is when you and I both reach midgame and can't seem to see eye to eye and we're both town. I think that's actually where most of our confrontations have happened (though we often do the same thing when your scum).

That being said, I think I've been scum and you've been town only once or twice. I've rarely gotten scum roles, so on the one hand it's hard to pick out my scum behavior, on the other I feel ridiculously awkward being scum.

Fredwood wrote:
nutella wrote: I have some concerns myself, but it's early in the game so I'm delaying judgement, there are better options I think. The problem is that all the other people that I think are good options are also being pushed by people who I think are good candidates for a lynch.
I feel this way as well. It's why I was nervous voting for epi. gfish was the biggest proponent, and while I agreed with his reasoning I also think he's likely scum. It's the same with silver. I'd be willing to vote for him, but I don't like that Jack is the one pushing for that vote, and as you say most of this is just based off his posting, which could be modified from how he usually post just due to the nature of this game.

S~V~S wrote:Two mafias though. That eliminates alot of that, " but s/he's defending/accusing person x" confusion.
This was my operating assumption when I was voting epi. gfish and epi were both scum, but gfish had better "evidence".

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: I don't like a lot of things about Silver. Would you be willing to switch to Silver Lantern.

Sure. You got some reason besides his bombasity to vote for him?

*Pretty sure this is all kinds of out of order.

I can't trust my gut on Jack. There's just too much history, and there hasn't been enough play for me to point to anything that is just glaringly wrong.

My gut says Jack is scum, but my gut always says Jack is scum. Jack also feels less scummy than usual.

My gut just can't be trusted with Jack right now.

TSP however is acting more scummy. His read of me I think is completely off base. His read of adam and gfish also seem suspect.

Moving vote to TSP

DrWilgy wrote:
Adam wrote:I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.
How active is Raven normally?

Nifty, Gfish, how do you feel about Adam's swap?

Linki - Neat. Now let's just band together and lymch Gfish.

Adam swapping is SOP. I'm not a particular fan of the move to I_R.

Raven is usually more active, but as Fred said he's recovering from surgery. More importantly what little Raven has said feels civ to me.

DrWilgy wrote:Unless someone kidnapped Epi and started playing in his place, Gfish and he are not teammates.

LC, even if Epi is playing off. When has he ever gone bus route by default?

Nifty, Joh, how often does Gfish default to a bus and is it ever his first option?

Something I'd like the realms players to think about. Is the lack of role claiming when asked removing usable information?

It feels that there is a reliance upon roles happening. That info isn't usable.

With the spread of roles that we have, role claiming in mass is not beneficial in this current gamestate. Perhaps closer towards end game, but I don't think so now.

Adam wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:While we have votes. One of the 3 Epi voters are bad.

3 from the same site. Momentum is in thier favor. These things don't line up like this if they were civ.

Adam, Nifty, and Gfish, what do you think of this?
This is SOP. We call it pressure voting. If this were a game on HCR you would expect to see a number of pressure votes placed following a lead like gfish's block on a night where a kill was missing. Of course there we have majority lynches instead of plurality, so I'd expect the train to get to around 4-5 votes while waiting for a response from the person pressured. A satisfactory response will get votes removed; an unsatisfactory response will see more votes applied.

If anything, you see mafia teammates trying to jump onto a pressure train early in case their teammate ends up getting lynched, so that they look better when the autopsy comes up and have a good voting record.
How does that work in this environment? I understand pressure voring, but half the players aren't doing this, so where does that place baddies?

Gfish, you haven't acknowledged me in awhile. Why?

So, I don't know if it's his first move, but he's certainly not above busing. No particular time stands out, but having recently played scum with him, he's really good at when he needs to be.

In a plurality situation, pressure votes are actually more pressure. Right now Epi is going to be lynched. If this were majority instead of plurality, he's safe, he has nothing to worry about with only three votes. As a matter of fact I likely wouldn't have pressure voted in this game if it were a majority since half the players here don't play that way, but with plurality its even more effective because I don't need half the votes to lynch someone.

And claiming does give information. No one from the realms would advocate mass claiming. However, if someone has info - gfish in this case - that points to someone else - Epignosis in this case - then its discussed. I voted Epi because I was suspicious of him yesterday. The conversation last night between him and LC thoroughly put him in orange for me. So my gut + his posting + gfish's block = a vote from me.

I've gotten some information from him I'm going to remove vote from him and we'll see if anyone else has some info.

Long Con wrote:
Fredwood wrote:I also didn't say I was more suspicious of you then Epi, I said you both were pinging slightly green because of the interaction.
I think they're teammates.

If gfish ends up moving his vote off of epi this is possible, but it's not really gfish's normal style.

I actually think they're both scum just different factions.

gfishfunk wrote:
Long Con wrote:So, Freud would say you think Epi is fake-claiming, is that correct?
I assume you mean me as Fred is more suspicious of me than Epi.

I inherently find hint claiming suspicious. I don't think s/he is fake claiming. I don't think s/he is claiming at all and hiding behind righteous ambiguity.

He said Freud not Fred.

Epignosis wrote:
You don't know what tends to happen because you've never before participated here. This is a brand new dynamic.

I could say the same to you.

Try to use less arrogance, bullshit, or whatever your trying to sling. Syndicate may think you are some kind of mafia genius, but half the players here don't know you or frankly care about your reputation.

Without you giving something up, or someone else providing more info, I see no reason to move my vote.

DrWilgy wrote: I think Epi is trying. He even linked posts from a game he hosted. What makes you uncomfortable? Is it the "home site unity?" Is it the means that caused you to vote together?

It makes me uncomfortable that I'm on the vote with adam and gfish. I'm feeling better about adam, but I'm still not quite to him being civ. I'm not remotely convinced on gfish. He's making sense, but I don't like it that he's one of the most suspicious people and I'm sharing the lynch with him.

@Epi
All information is good information. Even with extra roles we can still catch people in bad claims.

In the realms we have historically relied too heavily on info-dumps. Over the course of the last year as we've had people who have played on other sites bring those play styles to the Realms, we've made a conscious effort to rely less on info-dumps. However, Syndicate's revulsion to info dumping and role-claiming is crazy to me. The problem in the Realms is that it's a tool we relied on too much, but to completely ignore a tool is debilitating for the town. Withholding info is almost always detrimental to the town. I know Jack has been spending too much time here because he helped teach me that, and got lynched in a game in HCR because he withheld info.

DrWilgy wrote:While we have votes. One of the 3 Epi voters are bad.

3 from the same site. Momentum is in thier favor. These things don't line up like this if they were civ.

Adam, Nifty, and Gfish, what do you think of this?

Who are you asking?

If your asking me what I think about being on the same vote as Adam and gfish it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, but I think Epi should give us something.

Fredwood wrote:
I think that's very likely as well, and was part of my argument, but not a strongly emphasized part of it.

I hadn't thought of that, there really isn't any Write up clues to discredit or credit it, so it's just another detraction for the whole RB evidence thread.

Based on the write-up I'd say Kai Leng or Saren likely made the kill.

Long Con wrote:
CaptainNifty wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
I am not dismissing anything; but it IS a leap, especially since the protector role is not dead. It is also possible that someone missed a PM or one of the role switchers was at work. This is a super complex role list, and while what you say is super possible, it is certainly not conclusive.

Overall, I like this post, but I'm not sure I follow everything you are saying. What do you mean by missed a PM. I don't know how it works in the Syndicate, but in the Realms if the faction has to kill they can't get around it by not sending in a PM.
What happens if nothing is sent in? Randomized kill? Delayed Day?

Usually a randomized kill. Sometimes random into your own faction. Depends on the mod's mood.

Scum always has to make a kill in the 'Realms.

Long Con wrote:
gfishfunk wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I agree with your analysis on Fred. Fred is only scum if someone counterclaims Joker (unlikely) or if Bob's role was forged (also unlikely?).
Whats forged? I don't think I've seen that term.

And no - the haircut guys couldn't get me in yet when I called them - but its going to look amazing.
I used to have hair. Then I started to have less hair, so I decided to go with no hair. Enjoy your hair, haired one!

@Jack Hybridity looks like something right up my alley. I love superheroes, I love lots of role powers, I love cool storylines, and I love a good, cohesive series.

Forgers make a player seem to have a different role when they get lynched. That's what it was in Phenon, my first Forger experience.

Although I have toyed with it a little in the past. In Mafia: A World Apart (my first solo-hosted game) I made up the Seemer, who looks like whatever role they like for rolecheckers and upon death, and I had an Illusionist, who could influence the host posts and add misinformation. Heh heh he made the Living Statue look like they killed someone at night, and the town lynched their outed, unkillable, protector.
Delicious!

Sign-ups for the next game are going on now.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=575019

S~V~S wrote:
I am not dismissing anything; but it IS a leap, especially since the protector role is not dead. It is also possible that someone missed a PM or one of the role switchers was at work. This is a super complex role list, and while what you say is super possible, it is certainly not conclusive.

Overall, I like this post, but I'm not sure I follow everything you are saying. What do you mean by missed a PM. I don't know how it works in the Syndicate, but in the Realms if the faction has to kill they can't get around it by not sending in a PM.

Epignosis wrote:Here's something to chew on:

If I am bad and on a team, I'm usually not going to be the one carrying out the kill. Can you guess why?

But y'all go ahead with yay role blocks if you want to. Civilians are fucked if that's the operating procedure.

Epignosis wrote: Worried? Not at all, but I will lose my shit if I'm lynched because someone role blocked me and the kill was missed.

That's elementary-level analysis. In a set-up that involves a dead protector, a living blocker, and a killer, and that's it, okay fine. You got me. Them's the breaks.

In this? Not straightforward at all. I don't fault fish for realizing he has a clue, but I do think it's lazy if he lynches me. I didn't try to kill anybody, so fish's block is irrelevant, and was sadly wasted.

For those who experienced it, does RotTK N1 mean anything?

Your first argument is ridiculously weak.

Someone has said you were blocked last night and there wasn't a kill. You could potentially end this by saying, "Well, you wasted your block I did nothing." or "Well, I tried to X." or "I'm character X."

You have 3 votes against you, maybe that's not enough to get you to talk and I can respect that. I've played 1 day real day phase with you guys, and I'm doing my best to try to adapt to the way you guys do things, while still bringing something from HCR. It may not be how you do things here, but there is value to this line of inquiry.

Fredwood wrote:
Like I give a shit, I'm pointless now anyway. Lynch me or don't who gives a fuck all I am is a vote, which is silly on a player who doesn't vote that often. Don't really care if you or LC think it's impossible to make a quick assumption in the moment, overlook something, and then be wrong, yep impossible. There would be no point for me to claim Joker if I wasn't fucking Joker.

Your hostility is not helping. Like Wigly I believe you, but this level of hate is completely uncalled for.

Long Con wrote:
CaptainNifty wrote:
Epi is pinging me as well, and it's not a playstyle thing. If I had a roleblock I probably would have used it on him to. I know Syndicate people aren't used to info dump, but I'd like one from Epi. That's where my vote is going to go.
Will you believe it?

I'm certainly open to believing it. I certainly won't dismiss it out of hand.

*I know a lot has happened since I started constructing these posts, so I'm going to submit these and then go back and catch up.*

I_R
MP
LC
SVS
dom
dys
Fred
sprit
wigly
adam
Jack
TSP
Silver
nutella
gfish
Epi

gfishfunk wrote:
Bad town picks realizing that this is just my thought process: thellama73 (Don't tell me what to do), CaptainNifty (MovingPictures07), Jackofhearts2005 (MovingPictures07), and Adam (colonialbo). The commonality is that they all mentioned someone that had already been mentioned. (Yes, Adam, I was spamming so that the prior results were always close by). I hardly care who they picked, but I do care that they picked someone that already was posted. I give you a 90% chance one of these people is mafia.

I'm compelled to point out that this is ridiculous argument against me. I pointed out MP well before Jack did.

Fredwood wrote:So Saren is in the game, I'm vanilla now.

Kinda sucks, not as much as EDI dying (sniff)

I didn't initially follow this, but Wigly(?) connected the dots for me. Still, Why would you jump to the Saren thing instead of reading your own damn role? This might have been a mistake (Lord knows I've made similar in mafia), but I don't think you'll ever be able to get out of the yellow now for me.

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Epi is pinging me as well, and it's not a playstyle thing. If I had a roleblock I probably would have used it on him to. I know Syndicate people aren't used to info dump, but I'd like one from Epi. That's where my vote is going to go.

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

While above I agree with gfish, that doesn't mean that he's not scum. I'm not sold hes civ. I'm leaning to them both as orange right now. I think there's a good chance one of them is scum, but I (and I hate to say this) agree with Jack that it is definitely not safe.

Unless you have some info or special insight - in which case please share.

For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

I'll post a rainbow in a bit.

S~V~S wrote:It wasn't contextual, it was the existence of the smilies. She didn't have to read what I wrote. Just see the smilies.

Again, this is not true of everyone, but it is true of (and possible for) some. What I find most note worthy about this discussion is that you seem really invested in dismissing this as a topic of conversation, not unlike how Silver wanted to shut down discussion of his possible tells, to the point of calling my post "garbage".

The things that people don't want to talk about intrigue me more than the things they do want to talk about, you know?

I really like this post.

It goes to what I posted at Dr. Willy. Info is info, and almost always town should want it shared.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Bob/Nifty

How do you feel about Silver? I feel like I'm looking at Silver similar to when he's bad in terms of level of engagement. Do you agree?

Silver seems less focused than usual. I'm not sure that's scum (I don't think I've played anything other than Hybridity and Superior Foes with Silver), but he's on my radar.

Fredwood wrote:Shit, it's had been 48 hours already? Sucks I missed EoD. Sorry for those people who wanted a vote from my I was unlikely to vote for anyone on Day 1.

As to initial reactions to day 1 and in general.

I really don't have a lot of experience in Double mafia games, usually our games aren't big enough to support multiple mafias, and the few that I've been in I believe I've been mafia, so I have no experience with generating reads. Those with experience how does this affect your reads? Are you just more suspicious of everyone because you don't have the benefit of being able to rely on successful scum hunters as town reads?

MP...damn, I have very little experience with you and perhaps this was a result of you being dropped into the middle of a massive game, but you're putting down JJJ level of content. I like that you're adamant about the meta posts being useless right now. I tend to agree to a point. I try my best to change my style of play constantly with my only real "trait" I think being that I don't like lynching a townie as a townie that I'm very stingy with my vote, and that when I'm scum I feel I have to keep that charade up. I just assume most others have a similar MO.

llama voters:

Gfish, I like his posts. He's aggressive but not defensive, (while we're getting into a meta territory) I usually feel more comfortable with an aggressive Gfish then a defensive Gfish, so this continues. The llama vote would concern me more if they had a history of playing together.

Jack: The vote doesn't mean much he didn't want to die, makes sense. His play was rather strange, I'm willing to give him benefit of the doubt because of his post EOD explanation. But he's definitely no where near green on my list.

Adam: Again vote doesn't mean much of anything to me. I like to think Adam and I are similar players, he adjusts his playstyle a lot, can be difficult to read, and to this day is the only player who ever fooled me in an end-game sequence.

LC: Maybe his vote was retaliatory and there looked to be a bit of grudgeplay histrionics involved. I have experience with LC as scum, and nothing he's done really has me greening him. The mayhem is very much in line with what I experienced with him as a scumpartner.

Others:

Silver relying on everyone's meta to be meta. Which is also meta for SIlver

Bob, don't know what to make about Bob. Some of his early play felt a bit too cloyingly innocent and naive. Felt like I was watching a Disney movie. That changed some as he went along and posted more. First impression I got was his early scum games on the realms, he acted similarly. I don't trust his puppy dog eyes is all.

Dizzy, floating through the thread like a adhd butterfly whose wings sprinkle a dusting of cocaine in her wake. So Town??? Wait, not enough gifs, scum.

Congrats on surviving Day 1 Wilgy

Nutella had the best town instincts I've ever witnessed in our last game together. Maybe this is carrying over, but if she has issues with Epi, I'm willing to give her some previous experience currency on her read. Cozying appearances be damned.

Everyone else didn't either ping me one way or another or didn't have enough posts to move the needle strongly.

So
None

Gfish
Diz
nutella

Adam
Wilgy
Silver

Bob - just cus I don't want to put him in yellow group

Jack
Long Con
Epi

Coloring is fun, especially if you don't stay within the lines.

The fact that you don't have a read on me is troubling.

DrWilgy wrote:Dizzy beat me to it.

Gfunk, all this does is set up Wifom for baddies and give uneeded info to mafia teams.

If you'd like to trigger discussion via this method, this is not the way to do so.

We hunt baddies, not civilians. My civ reads are mine to have but not to paint targets.

I know a lot people have you on their townie list, but to me this is the scummiest statement of the whole thread.

Mafia has the most info. Town has the least. Collecting and disseminating information is the whole job of the town. There is very little information that can be revealed to the town that will help scum more than civilians. I used to think the way you do, and the two best players I know disabused me of this. I'm now extra watchful about people trying to stifle info gathering. I'm not saying that a cop or watcher or doctor should out themselves. That paints targets, but trying to feel out who is town and who is scum is the whole damn point. Even if the info gathering is clumsy; even if it's completely meta (as it's likely to be day 1); even if it let's the mafia pick up on some small bit of info they didn't know; the town still has a greater net benefit.

gfishfunk wrote:Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.

I feel good about MovingPictures

gfishfunk wrote:
Spoiler: show
gfishfunk - then again, its my list.

colonialbob - throwing out a lot of reads and observations. Thats good.

Adam
Dom
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
nutella
sprityo
S~V~S
TonyStarkPrime

MovingPictures07 - slight scum read, possibly different approach; misrepresented my shifting read of him (Posted 0 times between shifting --> Posted 20 times between shifting). Feels like was caught and tried to roll it back.
Long Con - dislike his/her list generated as content-less, though possible that there are no reads. I would prefer a refusal to participate than the appearance of participation without content.

Immortal_Raven - far too quiet
thellama73 - posting frequently but not generating content. MP said this was typical, but there is presently plenty to comment on.

Red would go here.

-----

- People that I moved around this list multiple times -
CaptainNifty - I dislike how my Meta-List influenced his
Jackofhearts2005 - Appears to be attempting to make content, which is good, but appears to be trying to cozy with multiple people
Silver Lantern - far too quiet, but posting right now as I preview my post
There is what I have so far. I have a lot of unclassified people and I need to re-read in order to generate more leads. I am a little surprised that I have more suspicion than I have town reads. I have a little downtime right now, so I might revise this massively.

MP and I had a bit of tunnelvision with each other, but I tend to hone in rather than dabble around (focus on one person).

I actually find your suspicion of me to make you read more townish. You seem to be much more intense this game than usual - it works for you.

I think you are reading too much into my re-use of the word lurk. You should know I started that list probably 30 minutes before I finished it, and who knows what I read and had happened between the time I started and the time I finished. I get your concern, but I stand by the fact the fact that adam hasn't been as present the last few games I've played with him.

thellama73 wrote:Also the people who want to lynch me for acting how I always act need to reevaluate their life choices.

I'm pulling my vote thanks to your reads.

colonialbob wrote: Jack's wall o' meta is fairly typical, but I read him as slightly scummy. Feel like he's trying to steer too much in a game where there are plenty of other good players.

Also don't like Nifty much tbh. Early follow vote without much engagement.

I'm not sure where you get this?

I have about 1/4 of your posts and I've only been on since 7:30 this morning. That's plenty of engagement. I explained my vote in my list. I've grown convinced that no-lynch isn't usually the best option.

I still feel you're townish, but you are wrong on this one.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
CaptainNifty wrote: Right now I don't like llama's posting. I'm going to trust that he's just a bit of a grinner (HCR knows what I mean), but I the bouncing around kinda thing makes him look guilty in my book.
How? Walk me through that logic.

The logic works like this: If all you do is bounce from topic to topic with silliness, that could be scum feigning participation. It can muddy the waters and obscure good info gathering. It's a common scum tactic to simply sew confusion among the town. It's not a play I like. It messes with my gut, and my gut is pretty good.

MovingPictures07 wrote: I play this game in an aggressive fashion, that I can admit, because I like to take charge of the thread and I love starting discussion. I get heavily invested in mafia games and my style involves me making many posts and interrogating players to the best of my ability to uncover everyone's alignment. I'm a heavily analytically-driven player, even if I get emotional and can develop tone-based reads, and I need a lot of content to sort through players as effectively as possible. All of my posts are made in an entirely respectful and in-game fashion of trying to play the game to the best of my ability. Sometimes I feel that requires some confident or driven interrogations as opposed to less emotional inquiries.

Literally nothing I post is ever intended with arrogance. I want to make that abundantly clear. I love playing this game with all of you and I mean no disrespect. If you ever take offense or disrespect out of something I say, I apologize in advance, and I'd be more than happy to try and settle any seriously harmed feelings or disputes outside of the game thread with the assistance of the Moderator on Duty, but I'd hope nothing I say ever reaches that level.

I get this. I can appreciate that it's a different style of play. I don't get my feelings hurt, it will just take longer for you to earn my trust. If your arrogance (excuse me aggression) hits pay dirt, you'll probably win me over.

gfishfunk wrote:I don't like how you indicated that JoH's post was pointless: lets call it a Meta-list. I wish to turn it into a game and see how people respond. You questioned its value and then several posts later discussed llama's day 1 habits - something that shows the Meta-list to be useful. Your avoidance of making a Meta-list is suspicious to me.

If it helps, Long Con is my most scum read at the moment. That Meta-list is totally non-revealing. Its a response that shows participation without providing substance. Nifty's Meta-list also struck me: I said adamcial is a bit of a lurker and he copied it into his. Adamical is not a lurker, he tends to have one of the higher post counts in a game. I wanted to see who called me out on it and was surprised when Nifty copied it.

Remember, until recently I hadn't played mafia in close to six months. The last two games I've played with adam, he has died due to lack of substantive participation. I think lurker was the wrong word. It got stuck in my head from reading your list. Maybe lately he has just been half-present so to speak. Maybe he's just off his game.

Oh, also like gfish I often chain post.

I'm a teacher, so I'll read, then start posting, then teach, then finish a post, repeat. So it could come in bursts or could be long stretches of silence.

Adam - good player when he's active. Prone to lurking which hurts his games.
Nifty - good instincts as both town and scum, but has a hard time plyaing scum durring the day. Solid midgame as town and strong late game as scum and town.
cbob - gets better with each game. Highly analytical. Helpful to town even when scum.
Dom - no read
Wigly - early, but seems like a fun guy. No serious posts
Dys - despite a lot of sillyness. Striking me as town. Just a gut reaction
Epigenosis - no read
Fredwood - I've rarely played with Fred. Has a reputation for solid play.
gfish - great spin artist. His eratic gameplay makes him hard to read, but is dangerous as scum
I_R - I_R plays mafia the way I imagine Spok would play mafia. Logical and subtle.
Jack - Controls the game. I have fallen for his Silver tongued lies too many times. His playstyle has changed since playing at other sites. He's less noisy and more accusatory
Long Con - No read
Moving Pictures - Didn't like the questioning of cbob. It might be a culture difference, but that kind of aggression comes off as arrogance to me which I immediately dislike. Doesn't make scum, but don't like it.
nutella - no strong feel one way or the other
Silver - Strong player but has a tendency to tunnel. Way dangerous in the late game.
Sprityo - no read
S-V-S - helpful so far. Friendly. No game read
llama - don't like the eratic postings. More silly, less thoughtful. Makes me think scum distraction. That's why he has my vote.
TSP - Decently good reads as town, but always make me think he's scum with the way he posts.

I'm reporting in. Sorry I missed the excitement this weekend. I was at Dallas FanExpo all weekend being a super-nerd. I'm going to continue to study those roles they look amazing.

Right now I don't like llama's posting. I'm going to trust that he's just a bit of a grinner (HCR knows what I mean), but I the bouncing around kinda thing makes him look guilty in my book.

The Syndicate

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