The Syndicate

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:51 pm @captainNifty do you understand my point of view on why I think Adam is bad? I put out that I thought he was bad based off of his use of words.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:10 pm But the bullet on the Adam ISO (you have to use the front page links).

Interacts early with both GFish and Dizzy. Mostly null read for me. Adam is #neverscared imo. Especially as town? Maybe. Haven't played with him enough lately.

His first rainbow is pretty funny in a hindsighty way. Has GFish, CBob pegged as town. Says Llama, Fred, LC, Nifty, Silver, Wigly bad. Wigly's style does rub some Realmsers badly (I like it, though.)

Gets a little annoyed with GFish for "spamming". Iirc, some people didn't like that post but I don't mind it. Calls CBob his top town read.

Throws down a vote for Llama, noting that Llama is suspicious, Llama is lynchable and some people are avoiding a Llama/LC tiff, which he takes to mean one is bad.

I half jokingly ask Silver if he throws fits when he's scum. Adam says Silver throws fits like every other game.

GFish says either me, Nifty or Adam is 90% mafia cause our top town reads were mentioned by someone else first. Bad logic. Adam retorts that he gave his reads before GFish did, meaning GFish copied him, not the other way around.

Adam weighs in on Rainbowgate. "Why would he even lie about that?"

Adam weighs in on the GFish/Epi gambit pileup. Votes Epi. Thinks people are defending Epi cause they're scumbuddies.

There's some further defense of GFish's actions as "SOP" and calls the GFish gambit "pressure voting."

Spends quite a bit of time as communication facilitator. Points out misunderstandings, promotes the idea of culture clash.

Removes vote from Epi. Votes Raven. Explanation:

Adam wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:47 pm

DrWilgy wrote:

Adam wrote:

DrWilgy wrote: How does that work in this environment?

I'm not entirely sure yet. That's really the fun of a crossover game, isn't it?

So, now instead of explaining the wagon with the most votes as a pressure, how about you tell me what you think of Gfish and Nifty? How do you feel about them being the only 2 voting with you?

They're both playing as I expect them to. Nifty's gotten a lot better recently with his tells and behaving consistently no matter his alignment. I started off reading him a little on the scum side, but I don't know if that's recency bias or not. Gfish has been playing loud, but nothing he's done so far is inconsistent with how he would play as town. He also tends to intentionally play as a scum-seeming townie, which provides him with cover when he's bad.

This role block of Epi tells me: Someone definitely role blocked (or attempted to role block) Epi

I see multiple scenarios for how gfish would act
1) If gfish was a town RB, I would expect him to call out Epi, especially if it was a one-shot RB
2) If gfish was mafia in a game with only one mafia, I don't think he would out the target of his RB because he knows it would be town
3) In this game with two mafias, and gfish was on one of the two mafias and thought he stopped the opposing mafia's kill with a RB, he would definitely fight full force to get that player lynched and be a successful scum hunter.

If in the end gfish had not backed off of Epi, I think he would be mafia, but based on how easily he let it go once Epi claimed, my inclination is that gfish is town.

Adam's next rainbowish post is much more accurate.
Says GFish, Silver, Dizzy, Jack look worse.
Says SVS, Wigly, Fred, Sprityo look better.

His basic point on GFish is that GFish was really hunting. Either he's bad and looking for the other bad guy team or he's good and looking for all bad guys. Epi being neutral makes GFish look worse to Adam.

Says I lack footing. When I question him about may lack of footing (citing several town and scum reads I have), he refers to my back and forth with Dom as nonproductive. Well no shit but that's still a misrepresentation. I also ask him what specific SVS posts he likes. He doesn't say.

Votes GFish as his last post of the day.



Finish this later.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:22 pm Hi. I just wanted to thank all of you, especially the newcomers from HCRealms, for bearing with us as our tech team works through all the unforeseen problems they've encountered in this recent update. It is unfortunate that this has all happened, and even moreso considering the timing of it right in the middle of this game. While it is nobody's fault at all, and there is no doubt that everyone is working very hard to get the Syndicate back to full strength right now, we would like to apologize again for the interruption to this game. I assure you all that this is not a regular occurrence here.

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:58 am

CaptainNifty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:38 am

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:28 am N1 I RT'd JoH and saw no one else visit him
N2 I missed the submission
N3 I RTd myself and saw I_R visit me
N4 I Misdirected Captain Nifty
N5 I misdirected INH

It's also worth noting I have an extra shot of misdirection given to me by the hosts due to me not understanding the mechanic (which is to randomly assign the target of whoever I targeted with the misdirect)

Why in the world would you misdirect me. I tried to target Wilgy that night. Since you misdirected me, there is a solid chance that scum received an additional shot of a limited power.

BAD MOVE!

I was notified at the last minute that the action was different from a bus drive, so spur of the moment I picked randomly

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:28 am N1 I RT'd JoH and saw no one else visit him
N2 I missed the submission
N3 I RTd myself and saw I_R visit me
N4 I Misdirected Captain Nifty
N5 I misdirected INH

It's also worth noting I have an extra shot of misdirection given to me by the hosts due to me not understanding the mechanic (which is to randomly assign the target of whoever I targeted with the misdirect)

CaptainNifty wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:32 am
Honestly, I thought we were looking good, until the double kill last night. I'm still not sure how that happened, other than a townie screw-up, or someone (likely Thane) tried to use their one-shot kill and got misdirected?

This is what I get from that.

The Catalyst is in the game. Which means the Reapers also have either Saren or Benezia.

Cerberus still has the Illusive Man and either Eva Core or Henry Lawson. If Benezia is in the game then Lawson isn't and visa versa.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:04 am
I don't see any reason to forge a player to look like a Reaper.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:15 am @Fred, Nifty and SVS

Who do you think is the last Reaper.

I ask the three of you specifically because you are the three players I am convinced can absolutely not be Reaper aligned.

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:42 am I'm still not seeing eye to eye on why you all vote Dyslexicon, I'm sticking to my guns on this one

VOTE JACKOFHEARTS

sprityo wrote:real quick, who all has claimed what?

Dyslexicon wrote:Remember that time when I said that if Nifty turns out bad than Nut should be suspect number one? And then this:

nutella wrote:Cool no death!

Now I need to sort out my thoughts for this lynch Several players I'm iffy on (Nifty, Wilgy, Jack, SVS) but nothing really confident.

nutella wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:

nutella wrote:Cool no death!

Now I need to sort out my thoughts for this lynch Several players I'm iffy on (Nifty, Wilgy, Jack, SVS) but nothing really confident.

Really, you're iffy on me after what I did for you?

Not anymore.

And then Nifty asks if Nut didn't get a message from the mod, which Nut never answers and it isn't brought up again. But Nifty brings up Nut vouching for him.

@Nifty, What is the reason you're trusting Nut? And what was the reason you were targeting her in the first place? D1 you first mention her saying you have no feelings from her what so ever, and then she later is one of the people at the bottom of your rainbow. Later (D3?) you say everybody had a major scum read on Nut, which I ask you about cause I didn't have the same impression, and then you say you'll find where people said it (which you never did). There's very little interaction between you other than this. Until you target her of all people for you action. Who did you target this night?

@Nut, Where you surprised to be targeted for Nifty's action?

I think you guyz be lying. Tsk tsk.

---

I'm tired of reading Jack's posts, so I want to scum read him for that. It would be better if he is town and I'm right though. Probably doing well with this antagonizing. \o/

Anyway:
Cerberus:
Nifty
Nut

Reapers:
MP
Raven or Jack probably

S~V~S wrote:

Long Con wrote:The thing is, Jack, I don't think S~V~S is prone to tunnelling like this without good reason. This assuredness in her suspicion of you smells like something more.

Back to that pesky missing Night 1 kill... her behaviour toward you matches what I believe we'd see from her if her Mafia team tried and failed to kill you.

No it doesn't and you know it. What game did I act like that when I was bad and had a missed kill. When did I act like that when I was bad under ANY circumstances? Pffft. Why would I try to kill him when all I did was talk incessantly about how bad I thought he was?

At this point I kind of want to be lynched, becasue I think I am a distraction at this point. But I also don't want people to vote for me unless they really think I am actually bad. Especially Syndicate people who know how I play. I am totally a tone reader, and I go on gut. ANd it works for me.

In any case, back to meetings

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also, what do we all think of claiming in general this game? I'm not sure I want to claim my role, but I'm curious what you all think as to whether it's better to get all that stuff out there, or it depends, or what.

TonyStarkPrime wrote:Wilgy says Hi and this is his message:

Now that everyone knows my personal life, the best order for POE lynching is probably as follows:
MP, IR, SVS, LC, and go from there.
That is to safely remove unknowns from the game. We only have 4 days until NK's catch up with confirmed civs and then it's back to figuring shit out.

nutella wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:

nutella wrote:Cool no death!

Now I need to sort out my thoughts for this lynch Several players I'm iffy on (Nifty, Wilgy, Jack, SVS) but nothing really confident.

Really, you're iffy on me after what I did for you?

Not anymore.

nutella wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:

nutella wrote:Cool no death!

Now I need to sort out my thoughts for this lynch Several players I'm iffy on (Nifty, Wilgy, Jack, SVS) but nothing really confident.

Really, you're iffy on me after what I did for you?

Not anymore.

S~V~S wrote:

nutella wrote:Cool no death!

Now I need to sort out my thoughts for this lynch Several players I'm iffy on (Nifty, Wilgy, Jack, SVS) but nothing really confident.

I could agree with you on Jack. I think almost everyone has said they suspect him, yet he's still here. Sort your feeling on me fast, I am civ.

Show of hands~ does ANYONE think Jack is a civ?

Also Wilgy why you vote for me?

And i have no clue what Epis list means, and I echo LCs question there, how does being enigmatic help the civs?

I am voting for Jack.

*Voting Jack*

nutella wrote:Cool no death!

Now I need to sort out my thoughts for this lynch Several players I'm iffy on (Nifty, Wilgy, Jack, SVS) but nothing really confident.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Eh.

Without getting into what I see as the best forge strategy (cause I'm evil with night powers and don't need to give anyone any ideas), I don't think using it on night 1 is the best idea.

I think either Cerberus did block Epi or Cerberus did try to kill Epi. I agree that GFish doesn't push Epi like he did without actually thinking he may have hit paydirt. But that doesn't make GFish good.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:Epignosis, what proof do you have that you were the Night 1 kill target?

I didn't know we were dealing with proof. What proof would you expect me to have?

None at all. I think it's strange that Nifty would be all like "Epi maintains he was targeted" when the reality is that it's a hypothesis at best. And if one were to add an adjective before "hypothesis", I am pretty sure it wouldn't be "strong", "likely", or "convincing".

Long Con wrote:Here's a fun one. I'll take a page from Epignosis' book and say this: Silver Lantern's role was immune to a nightkill each night. There was a kill missing on Night 1. What if the Reapers targeted Silver Lantern on Night 1? Then they might assume he's Sovereign or a hostile LMS, and confidently move forward with trying to lynch him.

So, who stepped up the Silver Lantern pressure on Day 2?

Dyslexicon wrote:Sorry if I come across pissy, but I kind of am lol.

@Epi - I hope you decide to play for town. I will give you cookies.

@Nifty - If you actually are who you say you are you should definitely try use your action on someone this night. Don't know much it's possible to plan it or not.

Also, it's my birthday today, so don't kill me and give me presents.

Long Con wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:For the record I didn't actually target Fred. I asked if my power would give a vanilla player a use of their power back. The powers that be were non-committal but they did say vanilla and having 0-shots were different.

I decided not to use the power. My plan was to give Fred a power back, then he would say that he was wrong about me, and we'd move on since I was sure I couldn't actually say anything in thread that would satisfy Fred (which I didn't). When I was told it wouldn't work like I hoped, I refrained from using it. I didn't realize that Fred would make such a strong argument against me and so many people would start believing it. I'm sorry I didn't use my power last night. I'm sorry I didn't engage sooner (I was really busy, but I could have responded sooner and didn't). I'm sorry we wasted part of the day phase on me. I'm glad we got Silver. I'll do better guys, I promise.

I ate all your sorries, and I still needed to order dessert. Refraining from using a power like that seems unforgivably foolish at this point... this point being the point where you roleclaim and want to prove it. You come from the side of things where roleclaiming is very common, so how does that happen? I hope you understand why this makes you guilty until proven innocent, to me.

Adam wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:
Linki: Regarding what Adam just said. Voting Wigly is seriously scum. Fred is in my face and it makes me uncomfortable, but voting for him is ridiculous. Wigly is in your face, but he's clearly civ. vote Adam

Ebwop: Additionally, why do you say Wilgy is clearly civ? He pushed to lynch gfish, but we have two scum teams here, and there's nothing stopping Wilgy from being Reaper.

Fredwood wrote:SNIP

S~V~S wrote: I think it's a cultural thing. Do you folk at HCR throw teammates under the bus early and often for distancing? That is fairly common here, so people who are aggressively sparring in thread could still be teammates. Like one game MP and I were teammates, and he was making a case on me from pretty much his first post. I personally am not a fan of that baddie playstyle, but it IS common here.

MP thinks you are suspicious for a possible cultural difference?

Fredwood wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:

Spoiler: show

I've numbered the things I'm responding to. If I miss any important points let me know, and I'll come back to it.

[1] Yes, gfish was low on my list, but as I've stated just because a person is high on my list doesn't mean they're right, and just because they're low doesn't make them wrong. I was following Epi because gfish claimed to have blocked someone and their was only one kill. In the Realms this is a lead. I wanted to follow it. Epi was combative, abrasive, and evasive, this didn't look good for him. I followed the information, not the person.

[2] Rainbows are relatively new in my mafia toolbelt. I rarely explain them, but would have been happy to had anyone asked, and I will offer more explanation in the future.

[3]Again, I followed the information. You screwed up. We all do. In Realms terms you had a reverse OMAC. It worked for me. Enough people posted that convinced me I was stupid for not buying your claim. I stopped being stupid (about that).

[4]I had been trying to respond for awhile, but class kept getting in the way. I decided to submit the post anyway without catching up on the thread.

[5]I answered the question asked, and then offered additional information. Out of the 3 Jack proposed, Epi was my preferred lynch. I was voting for TSP partially defensively and because his earlier posts had bothered me. I was not feeling particularly strongly about this vote and was willing to move it to Silver (who Jack had also asked about in a separate post) depending on what else was said.

[6]It was 2:15. My class would end in 30 minutes, then it's after school duty until 3:30. Then there's always the chance that admin needs something during that last 30 minutes. Then it's 20 minutes home. Then I get home and have a wife, 4 kids, dog and 7 ducks who might or might not need some level of attention. So yeah, 4 hours left in the phase was time to take a stand because I didn't know if I would have time to vote again.

[7]While Wigly had asked for votes on fish prior to that the only ones over there were Epi and nutella. While Wigly definitely seems to be civ, Epi was an all but confirmed hostile neutral, and nutella was a major scum read for everybody. I didn't really want to jump on that train. However, Wigly got some verbal commitments, so I moved my vote. You weren't exactly excited to move there yourself

[8]I promise this post had no motivation other than to pass on my own observations. Scum seem to be just as good at hunting scum if not better. To give some more observations, I actually think the Reapers have a bit of an advantage. Cerberus has one that cops as Alliance, and Alliance has at least 2 that cop as Cerberus. This isn't to say don't trust cops. You always trust the cop until you can't, but I was making an observation. I have said many times that the town is better off when it shares information. That's all I was doing.

Fredwood wrote:So you wanted a role claim and information when your second best scum read gives shaky evidence, but when a strong town read has a large lists of grievances you just hope it goes away and withhold info, you know how you were saying Epi was scummy for withholding info.

I'm pretty sure I know what you you're going to claim, and admit it's a good claim, but the because you didn't do it before, in fact you completely dismissed me will trump the claim.

I don't think gfish's evidence was shaky (at least not by Realms' standards), and it wasn't just gfish's evidence. Epi had been pinging me since his nighttime conversation with Long Con. I didn't do this breakdown because as I said originally, I didn't think that anything I could say would be satisfactory to you. You still haven't said what would make you happy with me. I would have offered it if you had said. I would have tried for Wigly, but you were the one who was doubting me, so I thought it would go further with you, plus scum certainly wouldn't be expecting you to do something.

1:
A Roleblock is not a good lead when it's a blind roleblock on N1 and there's about 60 reasons why the missed kill is missed because the killer is blocked. A roleblock is a good final piece of evidence not a good piece of evidence when it's the only evidence you have. If this was day 4 and there was a miskill and Gfish claimed that he RB'd Epi it would be a completely reasonable line of questioning in my mind. The whole reason Gfish pinged scum in the first place was because he was pushing the theory so hard. Granted that's game theory and not indicative of guilt or innocence.

I just have a hard time viewing as Gfish's pressure as little more then random (or I don't like this guy pressure) with a little bit of oh and I have a lead tacked on for cover.

2. That's fine. What was more concerning is that it felt more aggregate of everyone else's suspicions rather then your own, especially with the lack of explination or previous interaction with other players.

4. Thin but plausible I guess, I remember it being kind of slow, but fine.

5. (shrug) It feels more like muddling the options and less like trying to be helpful.

6. The timing isn't to point anything else other then the timeline because I start jumping around in the next few posts. My biggest issue here is the fact that you chose Epi...and the finality of the statement, I don't know your schedule, so if you felt you couldn't make it back in time, I didn't know, to me that's the minor issue here.

Back to the fact that you chose Epi. Fish...still a scum read for you was still pushing the safe epi lynch. Wilgy, myself, and even you (in a post where he starts talking about math) about going for the safe option was not in the town's best interest. Yet, you still join Gfish (who still is at the bottom of your list as far as I know), Jack (another low level poster), and Long Con (early in the day he was high on your list, by the end of the day he was on the bottom of most peoples list) and Dys (who was at best placeholding because Diz was afk). Of those 5 people, Jack was voting for self preservation, LC was voting for something else entirely, and you and fish were the only ones voting because it was safe.

If you vote Jack here, Jack is likely lynched, and the case against you is almost non existent and I'm left with just my guts. If you took a stand on Jack being town, or even that you actually felt Epi was really reaper, that would have been one thing, but in the end you sided with a guy who you felt was the best lynch target, using his own logic and case to lynch someone else that was directly opposing a number of your high civ reads, and gridlock the vote, which is even more damning now that you felt you weren't going to be on to change your vote later. Regardless if you think Epi is better lynch then Jack, you stated before that you felt Jack was a good lynch target as well, you side with your reads, because why bother having them.

7. No, the traction part isn't the issue, the fact that you never mention Gfish as the best target is the problem. When asked specifically of which of the three suspects (Fish, Epi, and Jack) well before the end of the phase, you say Epi was. When Wilgy specifically asks people to start at least alternate pressure on Fish, you resist, non only do you resist you say that just because He's town doesn't mean he's right. NONE of that, would lead me to believe that you feel Fish is the best target for lynching. If you said Hey "WIlgy, you changed my mind, or hey Wilgy I'm trusting you here since I believe you are town" Yeah, cool, but instead you said "I thought fish was the best lynch all along, but I didn't tell anyone, and actually told everyone the opposite because I didn't think anyone would want to lynch him, even though a number of people continually brought him up as a lynch target"

When you responded to WIlgy about gfish, no one had even voted for Fish at that point, so the defense that there wasn't enough people on the train is moot, the question wasn't about whether or not you thought Fish would get lynched, you said you felt Wilgy was wrong. I had no reservations about lynching fish, and yeah, I thought Jack followed by FIsh was the best lynch and made that clear. Additionally you missed the post before that I would be willing to vote for Fish, but I didn't have a lot of faith in the town at that point to lynch either Jack or Fish. So yes, when I switched, I looked at the list, and saw You, Epi, and Jack all on the fish vote, I made note of it and said I was trusting Wilgy's play. I didn't say "Oh I thought all along that this was the best play"


8. I only added it because it was the first thing that bothered me about you. I knew there was a perfectly good explination for it, which is why I didn't bring it up at the time. Instead... I took note and paid more attention to what you did.

Fine you wanted to lynch epi because he was a jerk, I get that. I still think your biggest problem is the fact that you said you felt fish was a better lynch target then epi, when your actions and statements leading up to that point did not suggest that.

Make me happy? What? You completely dismissed the post. I'm not an unreasonable person, in fact I've called a number of people to task during this game, and with the majority of them they at least answered my line of thought directly, or generally satisfactorily enough to appease me. Maybe the length and depth of the ISO was too much and you thought I was in a "THERES NO ANSWER THAT CAN MAKE ME HAPPY WITH YOU." But guess what, a claim, and a couple of your points would have dissipated my concerns enough that I would have let you pass for the time being. I'm not a tunneller, I've tried to say what specifically bothers me about people and if they have a plausible enough explanation to what I confronted them about, I'm willing to grant some leeway and give them the chance to prove their towniness. If anyone thinks I have a reputation for being bullheaded and obstinate let me know, but I felt the total dismissal of my concerns was about the worst thing you could have done if you wanted to make me "happy". Plus how could you not know what I wanted to hear, I stated why you were pinging me and in all but a few exceptions you gave me a reasonable explanation.

As to choosing me over Wilgy, man I don't know what I feel about that. You didn't double check with the mods to see if your power would even work with me since I was stripped of all my abilities? I really don't know what to do here, because there is an easy solution to prove your innocence, but now that's less likely to happen since now it's pretty much out in the open, and there's not a whole lot of strategizing the town can do in the open. I don't want to blow up the spot, so it might be best if you actually claimed and everyone else can go from there with how they want to deal with you.

S~V~S wrote: I think it's a cultural thing. Do you folk at HCR throw teammates under the bus early and often for distancing? That is fairly common here, so people who are aggressively sparring in thread could still be teammates. Like one game MP and I were teammates, and he was making a case on me from pretty much his first post. I personally am not a fan of that baddie playstyle, but it IS common here.

MP thinks you are suspicious for a possible cultural difference?

Dyslexicon wrote:
@Nifty - You said in your post that Nut was scum read by everyone? When? That is not how I've perceived it.

Once upon a time, there were 7 little ducklings living in the back yard of a beautiful house in the country side somewhere in Murica. The little ducklings had lost their mother, but fortunately they were not alone as they had a dog of an unspecified breed to look after them and raise them as they were his own. This, of course, had a peculiar effect on the little ducklings, who instead of quacking were heard barking loudly from time to time. "Let's play catch the ball!" said one of the little ducklings, and off they ran as fast as their little duck feet would alow them.

Linki: stuff.

Fredwood wrote:Here's why Nifty is pinging me so hard, I figured I had to make a seperate post because a lot of things he did yesterday bothered me, and kept building.

[1]He was on the Epi pressure originally with gfish, despite his rainbow having gfish pretty low on his first rainbow list.

Spoiler: show

CaptainNifty wrote:I_R
MP
LC
SVS
dom
dys
Fred
sprit
wigly
adam
Jack
TSP
Silver
nutella
gfish
Epi

Maybe this is different playstyle, but I really don't follow one of my biggest danger reads on a pressure train, even if it's on my strongest scum reads. Additionally there's no other additional information or explanation about his rainbow list aside from some generic statements in a previous post about gfish epi and myself. To me if you're gonna bother to do a rainbow, at least give people a chance to argue against it...dunno.

Spoiler: show

CaptainNifty wrote:

gfishfunk wrote:
Bad town picks realizing that this is just my thought process: thellama73 (Don't tell me what to do), CaptainNifty (MovingPictures07), Jackofhearts2005 (MovingPictures07), and Adam (colonialbo). The commonality is that they all mentioned someone that had already been mentioned. (Yes, Adam, I was spamming so that the prior results were always close by). I hardly care who they picked, but I do care that they picked someone that already was posted. I give you a 90% chance one of these people is mafia.

I'm compelled to point out that this is ridiculous argument against me. I pointed out MP well before Jack did.

Fredwood wrote:So Saren is in the game, I'm vanilla now.

Kinda sucks, not as much as EDI dying (sniff)

I didn't initially follow this, but Wigly(?) connected the dots for me. Still, Why would you jump to the Saren thing instead of reading your own damn role? This might have been a mistake (Lord knows I've made similar in mafia), but I don't think you'll ever be able to get out of the yellow now for me.

gfishfunk wrote:Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Epi is pinging me as well, and it's not a playstyle thing. If I had a roleblock I probably would have used it on him to. I know Syndicate people aren't used to info dump, but I'd like one from Epi. That's where my vote is going to go.

DrWilgy wrote:I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

While above I agree with gfish, that doesn't mean that he's not scum. I'm not sold hes civ. I'm leaning to them both as orange right now. I think there's a good chance one of them is scum, but I (and I hate to say this) agree with Jack that it is definitely not safe.

Unless you have some info or special insight - in which case please share.

For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

I'll post a rainbow in a bit.

[2]That's the only explanation he has for any of his rainbow.

His gfish suspicion seems weak at best, and it's in response to him calling him out. Putting him at the bottom of this list for no other reason then calling you out seems weak.

[3]Another interesting thing here is his statement about me never leaving yellow, but an hour later completely buys my fuck up as innocent after other players just dismiss it as being suspicious.

Spoiler: show

CaptainNifty wrote:I can't trust my gut on Jack. There's just too much history, and there hasn't been enough play for me to point to anything that is just glaringly wrong.

My gut says Jack is scum, but my gut always says Jack is scum. Jack also feels less scummy than usual.

My gut just can't be trusted with Jack right now.

TSP however is acting more scummy. His read of me I think is completely off base. His read of adam and gfish also seem suspect.

Moving vote to TSP

CaptainNifty wrote:
I want to hear from Silver. His next post will determine if I vote for him or not.

I probably won't vote for you today at all. If your town your too valuable, and you've pinged enough people scum that if you are we can survive you another night. Out of the three of you I think Epi is the best lynch because he's safe, but right now I'm leaning silver.

I'm leaving my vote on TSP, because while I like that he's engaging, his reads are all bad.

[4]These post are all kinds of weird to me. The first one is literally the first post after Epi drops his Geth Bomb, it's not a linki, it's 10 minutes after Epi's post. So between the time Epi seemed to be claiming Vega, he switched from Epi to Jack, then the post after Epi plays a gambit, he switches to TSP...what?

The second quote is a response to Jack asking him of the choices between Jack, Epi and Fish who Nifty is most likely to vote for...He responds by saying he's probably going to vote for Silver, but he's going to keep his vote on TSP

[5]So there's 3 legitimate options to vote for, and in a direct question to who you're inclined to vote for you Say you're probably going to vote for a 4th one, but keep your vote on a 5th person? What?

Spoiler: show

CaptainNifty wrote:With 5 and 5 on Epi and Jack, I need to take a side.

I'm voting Epi

[6]Couple of hours after the previous post, sticks to the belief that Epi is the best lynch between Gfish, Jack and Epi...furthering the safest lynch scenario that Gfish put forward. Also there was plenty of time to come on later and change his vote, in fact he did later, this is with 4 hours left in the phase. It wasn't time to take a stand.

Spoiler: show

CaptainNifty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Can we aim to at leas make Gfish the alternate wagon?

Hmm... a thought. I'm damn near a unanimous town read. Yet little to no one is voting with me.

Who legitimately thinks that I am just wrong out of this group.

Just because I trust that your town, doesn't mean I think your right.

Same with Fred. I'm 100% Fred is town. That doesn't make him right.

This post isn't important right now, but it will be later. The time of this post was 1pm when Wilgy is clearly pushing for a gfish lynch, and after I had stated Gfish as an alternative to the current lynch targets because WIlgy was so sure of him.

Spoiler: show

CaptainNifty wrote:I think Epi is a better lynch than Jack, but I think gfish is a better lynch than Epi. I'll vote gfish

I would have earlier, but there didn't seem to be enough traction.

[7]This is his Fish vote, the writing is on the wall at this point. Epi lynch isn't going to happen, and Jack, Dys and I are changing our votes soon. It was stated in thread that we would. Timing doesn't give him credit like nutella's does.

Then his caveat about wanting to vote for him before but there not seeming to be enough traction. BS, Wilgy wanted people to join him earlier, you resisted it. You were asked specifically between 3 options of Epi, Jack and Gfish. You said Epi was better option, but also presented two other options for voting. At no point did you ever push for a Gfish lynch despite some minor bussing and a ceremonial place on your suspect lynch, you hardly mention Gfish.

Spoiler: show

CaptainNifty wrote:

Long Con wrote:

CaptainNifty wrote:I haven't paid enough attention to the roles, so I went back and re-read them. Here are a couple of things I noticed.

1) Only Alliance has access to roleblocks as far as a i can tell.
2) Both Cerberus and Reapers seem to have access to as much investigative powers as the town.
3) Cerberus can poison through Kai Leng which would also explain one kill last night because we have one more kill coming.

I realize this isn't scum hunting so I apologize, but if I missed these things other townies might have as well.

1) There is a Cerberus role:

Oleg Petrovsky
You are an experienced and formidable military strategist focused on the preservation of humanity. Three times during the game during any separate night phases, you may select a player. That player’s role will not function.

That sounds like a roleblock to me.

2) What does this mean to you - why is it notable, from your perspective?

3) Good point that I hadn't factored in. Guess we'll know soon enough! I don't know if it's the type of one-shot that needs to get used early though.

1) I just crl+F "roleblock". I'll have to revise my search.
2) I think this is notable because it gives scum cover. Scum is empowered to scum hunt. This needs to be noted that just because a cop catches someone doesn't mean that cop is civ.

This last post isn't really proof, but it's the first thing that rubbed me the wrong way. I can buy the mistake of not thinking scum didn't have a roleblock. It could possibly be dissemination.

[8]The bigger problem for me was the last part feels like he's trying to preemptively discredit cops, when everyone already knows scum will have cops. Even a scum cop that catches other scum is still good for the town. It feels a very strange thing to bring up in response to a role block


Anyway...that's why Nifty is where he is. Any comments, critiques, rebuttals. Am I crazy or do other people think there is something here?

Also

That's my first ISO you guys!!! hooray

Fredwood wrote:So you wanted a role claim and information when your second best scum read gives shaky evidence, but when a strong town read has a large lists of grievances you just hope it goes away and withhold info, you know how you were saying Epi was scummy for withholding info.

I'm pretty sure I know what you you're going to claim, and admit it's a good claim, but the because you didn't do it before, in fact you completely dismissed me will trump the claim.

Epignosis wrote:Mr. Nifty:

Why did you vote for me instead of Gfishfunk when he was your second most suspected person and then you voted Gfishfunk after I, your most suspected person, voted for him?

CaptainNifty wrote:Fred. You're wrong.

I'm not scum of any flavor. You're completely off base.

I thought I had a way to temporarily re-power you. I was wrong. Less able to prove my civness now.

I could try to counter each of your arguments, but my gut tells me it won't matter. I don't have anything really useful, other than my gut says silver, adam and TSP are shady.

No. No bullshit. I don't care about your gut.

How were you going to re-power Fred?

CaptainNifty wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Anyway, sorry to see Garrus go, do we learn anything from his death?

Does it seem odd that Cerberus hit Dom to anyone else but me?

The first thing that pops into my head is Jack. While just about everyone is suspicious of him, no one really got under his skin except Dom. I can see 2 scenarios.

1) Jack had his Cerberus pals hit Dom. This is not a particularly likely scenario, but it's possible.
2) Cerberus hit Dom hoping to push the above theory today hoping that the lynch of JoH sticks.

Either way Dom is dangerous to scum and I'm sure that's why they hit him.

How does mafia know Dom is dangerous?

You are bad.

Epignosis wrote:Honestly, Realms people, I think the over-reliance on role checks and role reveals and role this and role that is telling on you.

Fredwood wrote:Anyway, sorry to see Garrus go, do we learn anything from his death?

Does it seem odd that Cerberus hit Dom to anyone else but me?

gfishfunk wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:@Fred, My sanity and my soul. Should I join on Jack?

I see Gfish claiming. Why on earth would you not use a cop action the first night if this is your role? Any counters to this?

Because of the potential nightkill on it. How badass would that be?

And once again, I didn't hit town with it.

Epignosis wrote:
Lynching me is in essence a no-lynch- like the Day phase never happened- and one of you will die, so it's like there were two kills Night 1.