The Syndicate

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Also, I was around at EOD, and saw nothing to make me want to change my vote.
Meant in regards to other players. I know what you claim to think of me. I don't/didn't know how you felt about Llama, LC, GFish. Did you weigh in on these players and I missed it? How do you feel about them?

Llama I weighed in on early. We voted for each other, read each other slightly scum, both ended up moving on. As I said, I think it was a clash of styles leading to scum reads more than anything else.

LC was fine. Don't know that I love the back and forth with Epi at the beginning of the night but I'm hesitant to make any firm reads off that yet considering I don't know either player. It's an interaction that I think is meaningful but I have no idea how to fit it in yet (which is why I said I was going to leave it alone for now).

Gfish is playing like vanilla gfish. This gives me a slight scum read but is also very possible from good gfish. He's not somebody I'd vote for but he's also not somebody I'd defend. His explanation of his vote will hopefully help clarify my read.

Most of this was in my earlier reads post, except the Epi/LC bit (which hadn't happened at EOD). Learn2iso.

Also - all caught up from the night. Not totally sure what to make of the Epi/LC back and forth, so I'll mostly set it aside for now. They are probably not on the same scum team, at least.

Would still like gfish to answer why llama instead of Jack.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Bob/Nifty

How do you feel about Silver? I feel like I'm looking at Silver similar to when he's bad in terms of level of engagement. Do you agree?

Yeah, I'm reading bad Silver. Tony actually hit the nail on the head pretty well, and I'm getting a generalized aggressiveness vibe instead of normal pitbull Silver (latches onto something and won't let go).

Epignosis wrote:
Fredwood wrote:
Silver Lantern wrote:BTW, April 4th is my B-day so if you're thinking of killing me or lynching me, at least wait till April 5...

Blocks and MDs are welcomed fwiw...
BTW My birthday is April 8th so if you're thinking of killing me or lynching me, at least wait til April 8th.
Mine is in August.

Knucks for best birthday month

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:MovingPictures07 - Much more reasonable than my other accusers. His early bout with GFish seemed supatown but didn't go anywhere.
S~V~S - Not sure if her suspicion of me is genuine. Probably. Reads like a townie that was skimming.
sprityo - I like his few contributions so far
Long Con - He seems like a good guy.
Immortal_Raven - Null due to low participation. I'm kinda okay with that. Better at reading Raven than some players.
DrWilgy - Love his hunting. I imagine this is what townie Wigly looks like if hes not lynched early.
Epignosis - Way less aggressive than usual. Not sure what that means.
Adam - Null. I'm bad at reading Adam early. He always seems reasonable or coasty. Neither is alignment indicative to me.
Dom - Null. Never played with scum Dom. Town Dom is frustrating.
Fredwood - Null. Sexy as hell though. Hey there...buddy.
CaptainNifty - Null. Nifty has recently switched up his style. I'll read him better after some more posting.
TonyStarkPrime - I'm bad at reading Tony. One slight buddying post does not a scum read make but...whatever
nutella - My earlier read was probably unreasonable. I'm still not wowed and I was wowed in Phenom.
Dyslexicon - Lazy hunting. Not necessarily bad but perhaps actually opportunistic scum.
colonialbob - Don't like his meta reads of me. Doesn't feel genuine. Was basically like "This thing about Jack. Doesn't necessarily mean he's bad." then "Vote Jack for reasons I just stated." Yeah, okay. Wish he had been around more at EOD.
Silver Lantern - too quiet, not enough reads, not enough anything but one (phoned in?) defensive rant. Looks like scum Silver. Shoulda pushed on him instead of Nut but boss was watching so I wasn't thorough. Like IR, I'm play with pushing him off until later cause I tend to be good at reading him.
gfishfunk - Disingenuous posts. Meta reads on me (being too nice, having town reads) are way off. Bad hunting technique ("scum won't say their top townie read is a teammate...except I've now told them that's what I'm looking for) when he can do way better. Okay, so maybe that last one's not so scummy for Gfish now that I think about it.

There's a fair amount of "people suspect me so I suspect them" in these reads, which I don't like. Also, I was around at EOD, and saw nothing to make me want to change my vote. Offering outside of game rewards for not lynching you is a total scum move.

Also, because I can't resist passing up meta/mechanical discussion - I think voting once in a game like this is a mafia-friendly behavior (although note in big letters I DON'T THINK THIS IS AN ALIGNMENT-BASED DECISION FOR YOU). Moving votes around lets patterns develop and gets more info out, while only voting once is more cryptic. The more paper trail you have the better vote analysis you can do.

DrWilgy wrote:Ok, so I'm thinking we send LC to kill Bob while I'll role block MP.

gfishfunk wrote:
colonialbob wrote:Gfish, why llama?
Just gut right now, which I already established was bad.

Why llama instead of Jack?

Dyslexicon wrote:Are we currently standing on a no lynch? Is that what happens if there is a tie? I'd want a lynch rather than no lynch.

Lynch is randomized if it's tied. Haven't checked to see if there's any tie-breaking powers. I'd still prefer a firm lynch though.

Gfish, why llama?

I like this lynch pool, and still feel comfortable with my vote on Jack. Don't really anticipate moving it. I should be around until deadline though.

FWIW gfish's play reminds me of a vanilla game on the Realms in which he was Town.

That game was also nearly 2 years ago (!) and one of the few vanilla games we have had, so I'm not sure how useful this info is. But his play here strongly reminded me of that game, so I thought I'd go see what his alignment was.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
colonialbob wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Re: the orange [gfish/MP interaction] did you not read the back and forth or did you read it and not find any value in it with regards to developing reads?

Can you elaborate on your Jack read just a bit? In what post(s) do you feel he's trying to steer with nefarious intentions?

What don't you like about Llama specifically and why?
Hadn't read it at the time of posting. Caught up and it doesn't really change my reads. Reads like a stronger version of llama/me, in which a style clash leads to reads that may or may not be accurate.

I didn't care for his MP posting, didn't like his second vote on me (second vote so early with little justification). I see jumping on an early train like that as a low-risk scum move. Throw down a vote, appear helpful, maybe get enough pressure on a townie to out them. He's made contributions since then, I suppose. Like I said, I think this might end up being a stylistic thing.

Jack feels like he's steering people's perception of unfamiliar players. By inserting himself as knowledgeable about all the players, he gets to spin their actions. It's not necessarily scummy, but it's absolutely something I'd expect him to do as scum.

colonialbob wrote:Voting Jack for aforementioned reasons, plus he's responded to lots of other folks but not my posts about him. Avoiding the subject?

Dizzy, I've got to run, but I'll come back to address your post about me.
First post doesn't jive with the second.

Am I doing a thing that's not necessarily scummy or am I your top scum read?

I would expect you to post some type of meta-list either way. The way you posted the list and then followed up by interpreting Realmser's posts struck me as something you *may* do as town but something you'd *almost certainly* do as scum. The way you ignored my suspicions while answering every other mention of you also struck me as scummy, hence the vote.

@Dizzy

Careful? Not especially, no. I'd describe myself as an analytical player, and I count understanding the meta I'm playing in as part of that. Especially given that the first few games like this over on the Realms had D1s largely dominated by meta discussion regarding lynching strategies, and it's not a format I'm especially familiar with.

@Jack

Not what I said. I said It's not necessarily scummy but it's definitely something scum-Jack would do. Do you disagree with that assessment?

2 hours to deadline. Let's throw down some votes, people. Let em move around a little.

Apparently I'm going to need to start bringing my phone charger to work.

Voting Jack for aforementioned reasons, plus he's responded to lots of other folks but not my posts about him. Avoiding the subject?

Dizzy, I've got to run, but I'll come back to address your post about me.

thellama73 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote: Can you elaborate at all on the Bob, LC, and Dom reads? I need to understand your thought processes there, especially with Dom, because he's only been around in a very limited fashion and I currently have my vote on him.
Happy to!

Dom first. I love this post by him. I can't see mafia Dom making this post, calling out useless information.

Dom wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
Silver Lantern wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Silver Lantern wrote:Hey there everyone. Does this game involve all the ME games or only the latest one?
Why, is your role from the latest one?

How familiar are you with the games? I am 100% unfamiliar.
I have no idea if my role is from the latest one or not. I am also 100% unfamiliar. Well 95%, cause I know it has something to do with space, and the main person is called Shepard.
And you do know there are multiple games, and know enough about it to ask this question.

Not sure why this would be suspicious, but it does get my attention. Only thing so far, really.

MP, have you played at the HRC forum?
why is this attention worthy? do you play mass effect?

Bob: I was suspicious of his efforts to please the native folk here, and I didn't like how he responded to my vote for him. "I'm glad people are voting even if it's for me!" To me, thta sounded forced-casual.

Long Con: I think his asking me questions he already knows the answers to, especially given how many games we have played together, seems out of character, and is not something I associate with civ Long Con.

Also, fishface is being disingenuous. He says I am not adding any content, which is blatantly fake news. I am giving reads all over the place.

I like this post much better. Will be moving my vote once I figure out where to put it.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Re: the orange [gfish/MP interaction] did you not read the back and forth or did you read it and not find any value in it with regards to developing reads?

Can you elaborate on your Jack read just a bit? In what post(s) do you feel he's trying to steer with nefarious intentions?

What don't you like about Llama specifically and why?

Hadn't read it at the time of posting. Caught up and it doesn't really change my reads. Reads like a stronger version of llama/me, in which a style clash leads to reads that may or may not be accurate.

I didn't care for his MP posting, didn't like his second vote on me (second vote so early with little justification). I see jumping on an early train like that as a low-risk scum move. Throw down a vote, appear helpful, maybe get enough pressure on a townie to out them. He's made contributions since then, I suppose. Like I said, I think this might end up being a stylistic thing.

Jack feels like he's steering people's perception of unfamiliar players. By inserting himself as knowledgeable about all the players, he gets to spin their actions. It's not necessarily scummy, but it's absolutely something I'd expect him to do as scum.

thellama73 wrote:Also the people who want to lynch me for acting how I always act need to reevaluate their life choices.

I have no idea how you always act, so... meh. This argument does precisely squat for me.

Pretty sure we're just gonna clash styles. Which is fine, if not ideal. *shrug*

Caught up, nothing much has changed. I guess I'll add LongCon to the list of people I don't really want to vote for, but that might just be our similar reactions to the MP votes.

On a sidenote, I like this gfish. Interactive, debate-y, trap-laying. Still not really alignment-tipping, though.

And back to work, will pop in later. Will be interested to see if llama gives me a reason to move my vote (whether by giving a scum read I can agree with or by explaining/defending himself).

colonialbob wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Bob, since you're here, let's talk. What are your current reads and why? Literally any reads you have, even if very slight.
Sighhhhh had a whole post of reads get eaten. Will come back to this, promise. Sorry, playing on mobile st work sucks sometimes.

Ok, Reads as of this post, minus the gfish/MP back and forth:

Like Wilgy. Asking questions, probing, examining people's posts.

Like MP for similar reasons. Also the "joke" votes help; they may not indicate anything, but if they do it's likely that MP is town that mafia wants to meta-lynch early to get out of the way.

Didn't like Dizzy's early posting (jokes, not reading), but since then it's been much townier.

Don't like llama much, posting or voting. Folks have kinda meta-cleared him, but the nice thing about being unfamiliar with so many people is the ability to ignore all that and make reads organically.

Jack's wall o' meta is fairly typical, but I read him as slightly scummy. Feel like he's trying to steer too much in a game where there are plenty of other good players.

Also don't like Nifty much tbh. Early follow vote without much engagement.

Gfish seems typical, which means I doubt I'll get much of a scum/town lean from him early. Don't understand his read on MP though.

That's who stands out so far. Now to catch up and see if anything changes.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Bob, since you're here, let's talk. What are your current reads and why? Literally any reads you have, even if very slight.

Sighhhhh had a whole post of reads get eaten. Will come back to this, promise. Sorry, playing on mobile st work sucks sometimes.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
colonialbob wrote:
Dyslexicon wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Wow, I was expecting to have more to catch up on than that. Let's get this party started.

I have one town read so far.
Is it me?
And we have a vote!
What inspired this vote?

Covered later:

colonialbob wrote:I voted for somebody who apparently read enough to see MP had a town read but not enough to see who it was. Also, I prefer to let the votes fly, and there weren't any yet. Now we have some. I think that's a good thing, even if two of them are currently on me.

Adam wrote:Is there a way to see the times the votes were made in the poll?

You can tell the order they were made, at least.

I've mentioned both my votes, but I can try and highlight them going forward. No guarantees, since I'm generally mobile-posting.

Oh good, it looks like we're actually playing now. I like.

Dyslexicon wrote:
colonialbob wrote:I voted for somebody who apparently read enough to see MP had a town read but not enough to see who it was. Also, I prefer to let the votes fly, and there weren't any yet. Now we have some. I think that's a good thing, even if two of them are currently on me.
If you prefer the votes to fly, why didn't you just do that? Well, I guess you did eventually. Could you give some background for this post:

colonialbob wrote:So is this typically a "vote early vote often" kinda place or a "wait till you see the whites of their eyes" kinda place? We at the Realms have just started to dip our toes into the waters of plurality voting, so seeing how another site does things would be welcome.
What is plurality voting - that you can change your vote? Can someone give a cliff notes of the different cultures at work here? I'm really not from Cindy Kate or HCR. The true unicorn.

Like you said, I did let votes fly. But I figured I'd ask about typical behavior here, since I've seen several examples of people getting meta-lynched for behavior that's not universally scummy, but for whatever reason is on that site, and I'd prefer avoiding that for myself. That's true no matter my alignment.

Plurality voting is "person with the most votes at end of day is lynched", either with or without a no-vote option. On the Realms we've typically played with majority voting, where somebody is lynched as soon as they get half+1 votes (ignoring shenanigans) and otherwise there's no lynch. It's a surprisingly different style. I prefer plurality, because IMO it makes voting patterns more meaningful.

thellama73 wrote:
Long Con wrote:
colonialbob wrote:Oh, look at Jack trying to pocket me/get me killed N1.
What, in your estimation, are the chances that this is what's happening?
Why would his own team NK him on Night 1?

A) It was semi-jokingly referring to calling me a very strong player makes it more likely that one of the scum teams takes me out.

B) Even if I was scum (which I am not) there are two teams. Something I'd expect people to know?

So now you've earned my vote! Don't like this or the follow-on vote you had.

Long Con wrote:
colonialbob wrote:Oh, look at Jack trying to pocket me/get me killed N1.
What, in your estimation, are the chances that this is what's happening?

Fairly low - I'd expect Jack to say something along these lines no matter his alignment. If he's town, providing good meta info on me is a helpful thing when half the game has no idea of who I am, and I'm an early topic of discussion. If he's scum (or neutral), providing meta info is a good way of being helpful without actually saying anything alignment related. A serious pocketing attempt from him would probably revolve more around reads than stuff like this, IMO.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Sobered up. Since I'm gonna talk about Bob, it's worth stating that my earlier post about Bob/Ice (who is not in the game, though I wish he was) was a joke. I hadn't actually read any content at the time.

I do not consider Bob's actions as outlined by MP protown or antitown.

Bob is by my estimation the best HCRealms player who isn't me. He's great at strategic analysis. I totally expected his first posts to be clarifying rules/tricky roles and especially meta/Syndicate strategy. That is outside his alignment and is step one to playing this game from his (and my) standpoint. You have to understand the whole picture before you can play well. In no universe does Bob ignore this and in no universe is he scared to engage the Syndicate players in this type of discussion.

The only thing that Bob has done that is potentially alignment indicative is voting for Dizzy. Bob, can you explain your vote?

Oh, look at Jack trying to pocket me/get me killed N1.

I voted for somebody who apparently read enough to see MP had a town read but not enough to see who it was. Also, I prefer to let the votes fly, and there weren't any yet. Now we have some. I think that's a good thing, even if two of them are currently on me.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Silver Lantern wrote:
Long Con wrote:
Silver Lantern wrote:Hey there everyone. Does this game involve all the ME games or only the latest one?
Why, is your role from the latest one?

How familiar are you with the games? I am 100% unfamiliar.
I have no idea if my role is from the latest one or not. I am also 100% unfamiliar. Well 95%, cause I know it has something to do with space, and the main person is called Shepard.
The main person is called Wrex.

Kasumi is best girl.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I am drunk and I think Bob and Iceman are mafia.

I hope this isn't a bublicate post.

Clearly.

Dyslexicon wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Wow, I was expecting to have more to catch up on than that. Let's get this party started.

I have one town read so far.
Is it me?

And we have a vote!

MovingPictures07 wrote:
colonialbob wrote:Sidenote: When I tried to quote the above post on my phone, it only quoted about half of the nested quotes. Is this a known issue, or was it just something weird that happened to me?
Regarding this:

By half of the nested quotes, you mean like how it quoted my content but then displayed as if it was two quotes? I'm not sure why it would have done that... you should be able to just click "Quote" of any post you want to quote, regardless of how many nested quotes are in that post (unless it's 6, then you may receive a message that says you cannot embed more than 6 quotes in a post).

No, like this is what my post box looked like after I clicked quote:

[spoiler][code][quote="MovingPictures07"][quote="colonialbob"][quote="DrWilgy"]Who are you thinking of voting for bob?[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Fredwood, because of his naughty language!

But seriously I've seen some places that basically spend all of D1 voting, which I think can work but only if everybody does it. We tended to have more discussion before votes started, so[/code][/spoiler]

Not a big deal, if it's actually a thing, just means I'll probably quote less while I'm on mobile, which is generally a majority of the time.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
colonialbob wrote: Are you referring to like RVS, where people vote with no concern or semblance of suspicion?

What if I said you seemed more preoccupied with the role information and discussing meta than you are with hunting for the mafia, and I find that suspicious?

Yeah, I've seen places where the early voting is all random/meta/not info-based, and then over the course of D1 the voting patterns (as well as the rest of posts) get used to start making reads and hunting.

I'd say that's not a baseless claim, although I'd note that a) there's not a lot of posting yet to respond to, so role info is at least an early source of conversation and b) in a game like this with varying metas, meta discussion can be valuable because I'm willing to bet there's certain things that are considered scummy here that are fine on the Realms, and vice-versa. Discussing meta tendencies can help townies avoid unintentional scum signals (and, admittedly, help scum blend in better).

Sidenote: When I tried to quote the above post on my phone, it only quoted about half of the nested quotes. Is this a known issue, or was it just something weird that happened to me?

DrWilgy wrote:Who are you thinking of voting for bob?

Fredwood, because of his naughty language!

But seriously I've seen some places that basically spend all of D1 voting, which I think can work but only if everybody does it. We tended to have more discussion before votes started, so I was curious how it usually went here. After all, half the point of this game is mixing metas!

I really need to sit down and process the role lists, though. I read them, but there's so much info there.

So is this typically a "vote early vote often" kinda place or a "wait till you see the whites of their eyes" kinda place? We at the Realms have just started to dip our toes into the waters of plurality voting, so seeing how another site does things would be welcome.

Epignosis wrote:Just bought ME1&2.

Firing up ME for the first time ever.

You're in for a treat!

Well, ME1 is kinda dated these days, but still has a pretty good story. Just be ready for lots of driving around.

And FemShep is TruShep.

Fredwood wrote:Well,

Hello there.

Who's that weird dude, and why not put up a gif of Commander Shepherd? She's the most important character in the series!

Also...

Mordin's Role wrote:You are the very model of a Salarian scientist!

I'm not trying to be that guy, but...

Also! I neglected to mention that I am excited to actually get to play here on the Syndicate. I'm assuming D0 is more of a check-in phase and we'll go to Day 1 tonight at 7 EST?

Checking in before I fire up my ME2 playthrough. About to go recruit Jack.

The Syndicate

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