The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:01 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:45 pm she might be the god of hunting though. so that could backfire if gods are real

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:33 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:06 am Owner/Jinrou w/w seems unlikely. Jinrou/dizzy and Jinrou myself so unlikely as to be galaxy-brain scenarios.

Still feel like Soneji's vote on Kyle d1 was real, not distancing. That leads to the following possibilities:

Jinrou/Epi
Jinrou/LC
Epi/LC
Owner/Epi
Owner/LC

Interested in thoughts on any of these potential pairings or cases why Kyle should be in the pool.

That's assuming that there are two left. I'm not teamed up with any of them, because I'm Town, but I feel like the Owner pairing with me is less likely, whereas I cleared Epi earlier and avoided the Jinrou vote with a weak town read, so they're more teammate-compatible with me?

Why aren't Jinrou and Owner w/w?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:07 pm I feel confident that bob is bad.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:35 pm like if it was just confusing the cop or the result, fine. but confusing "indiglo copped need as civ and suspects me now" with "kyle copped me as mafia and I bet it happened because I'm a polar bear" it's a strange jump to make even without the player confusion

Logic wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:04 pm

Jinrou wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:25 pm but i want to add this

shouldn’t we normally be at parity in this moment since indiglo got offed and it’s day 4 with only one mafia member we lynched

her death should be the game deciding death in normal circumstances

Is this TMI for 4 living mafia?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:45 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:44 am I have a hard time believing Jack would a) give out a bunch of useless cop roles while also b) telling mafia there are a bunch of useless cop roles. Stacking the deck innit

I guess. But it's kind of stacking the deck if all the cops are actually town also, isn't it?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:29 am [VOTE: colonialbob] aubergine

Cause I'm doubting the cop claims could be clearing.

Logic wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:07 am I'm even more comfortable with my vote on Jinrou, because their "he's lying" comment is not followed up with a vote on the offending party.

Jinrou wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:29 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:10 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:13 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:12 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:36 pm If one or more of the cops is bad, who and why?

Kyle. Everybody else has legitimate posting history that indicates they actually believed they were the/a cop.

The exception is if Jack told mafia about the multiple cops thing, I guess. Potentially the case but seems a little like stacking the deck? Idk.

that's actually wrong. saying zootopia over and over and generally being a memelord was an active choice i made to make sure I survived long enough to cop someone. i went a different direction once I realized that at the very least my role likely wasn't a perfect cop, but also that there was probably at least one other cop in the game due to the presence of a miller before I got tired/busy

Ok, this is more convincing to me.

[VOTE: jinrou] aubergine

he didnt cop me or is lying

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:13 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:12 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:36 pm If one or more of the cops is bad, who and why?

Kyle. Everybody else has legitimate posting history that indicates they actually believed they were the/a cop.

The exception is if Jack told mafia about the multiple cops thing, I guess. Potentially the case but seems a little like stacking the deck? Idk.

that's actually wrong. saying zootopia over and over and generally being a memelord was an active choice i made to make sure I survived long enough to cop someone. i went a different direction once I realized that at the very least my role likely wasn't a perfect cop, but also that there was probably at least one other cop in the game due to the presence of a miller before I got tired/busy

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:55 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:01 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:56 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:51 pm I'm not "hitting my stride" because I'm just not that into mafia right now I guess, I've been playing this game whole-ly from my phone. I took a break for a reason.

I know that feeling.

Can you point to anywhere you did something cop-like?

(Hopefully you understand why I'm not taking further cop claims at face value)

I can't. I'm 99% sure a bastard cop. Instead of results I've been getting responses like "you totally meant to do that but instead you got distracted with a phone app" or "you were definitely gonna do that but you got distracted by donuts" last night I didn't get a message like that but was just told "no results" implying something else happened.

Here's the post. I want people to discuss this before hanging him.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:36 pm If one or more of the cops is bad, who and why?

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:17 pm I don't know how anyone phone mafias. It is the worst!!

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:01 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:56 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:51 pm I'm not "hitting my stride" because I'm just not that into mafia right now I guess, I've been playing this game whole-ly from my phone. I took a break for a reason.

I know that feeling.

Can you point to anywhere you did something cop-like?

(Hopefully you understand why I'm not taking further cop claims at face value)

I can't. I'm 99% sure a bastard cop. Instead of results I've been getting responses like "you totally meant to do that but instead you got distracted with a phone app" or "you were definitely gonna do that but you got distracted by donuts" last night I didn't get a message like that but was just told "no results" implying something else happened.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:51 pm I'm not "hitting my stride" because I'm just not that into mafia right now I guess, I've been playing this game whole-ly from my phone. I took a break for a reason.

Logic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:36 pm

Spoiler: show

There are actually 2 wolf officers in zootopia.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:24 pm or wait sec!! what if investigate as town means that town = prey and scum/mafia = predator? but then again all the checks are town though...hmmm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:09 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

Are you a wolf?

Not, like, a werewolf, just a regular wolf.

I don't think this wording really helps. Couldn't someone just say no because in most cases their animal in this game woulsn't be a wolf?

I guess there were a few wolves in movie though.

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:21 am Now you guys understand why I was asking about trusting cop results? Lol. When jinrou copped town, I was seriously dumbstruck.

Logic wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:47 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:33 am

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

What if I told you I feel pretty good about Logic, and that I feel I may have been wrong about Jinrou?

I think these are good opinions*

*except I'm starting to have a sneaking suspicion of what the bastard part of this game is

I'm actually starting to think we might be on the same page here.

• miller claim
• several players with suddenly "good feelings" about another

What do you guys think that means? I have an idea, and am willing to state it outright if no one wants to guess first.

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:50 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

What if I told you I feel pretty good about Logic, and that I feel I may have been wrong about Jinrou?

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:15 am The last baddies have to be in Jinrou, Kyle, Logic, or Owner. I feel very good about Epi and bob, and indi and Dys are outside tinfoils... pretty far outside.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:28 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:47 pm I'm on [VOTE: Kyle] aubergine for now btw

why

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:06 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:46 pm

Spoiler: show

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:22 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:08 pm I don't object. What's your view?

Well, largely PoE.

Also, a little bit of hinkyness from Bob himself. I was looking back, and noticed he had started being on my radar for quite a while, but was like staying quiet and not drawing attention to himself.

There was that Day 1 vote weirdness, and an explanation post that uses some of the excuses about wonky voting I've used before as mafia (association bias, I acknowledge):

Spoiler: show

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:41 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:36 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:11 pm A decision is better than random and I prefer soneji to the other two with two votes so [VOTE: soneji] aubergine

What made you go from voting me to voting the wagon I started?
Also the votes were not tied when you voted. Nut had already voted Soneji here.
Why did you prefer Soneji over Kyle and Daisy?

Clearly nobody was going to vote with me, and there was a three way tie that I did not care for. I was sus of you, sure, but it's day 1, there's only so strong a sus can be.

They were tied when I started that post, 2 v 2 v 2. With literally a minute before EOD it's not like there was time to check what had actually happened in the linki. Actually I changed my vote before posting to make sure I made it before the poll closed and it jumped from 2 to 4 votes, but again didn't have time to check who had voted or anything.

Kyle is a player who generally takes time to ease into a game and is (generally) not somebody I'm ever interested in d1. I feel relatively good about my ability to read him as the game progresses. Daisy was absentee and had some questionable voting patterns associated with her. Soneji was the only one of the three with actual reasons to be sus.

(Also sorry for the broken tag I manually typed the slash and used the wrong direction like a real dumbass)

((also sorry for being racist against asses, donkeys, and other members of subgenus Asinus))

Then, he told me this:

Spoiler: show

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:24 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:14 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:14 pm Excellent. Mac trusted LC, and I expected LC to be the one to go down.

I'm spit balling here, indulge me.

With a role like Officer Higgins, would one perhaps expect Mac to have been an alignment cop, or something similar?

If yes, and remembering that the host said we would not be alerted if/when our targets were changed... should an alignment cop trust the results they get from the host upon checking the alignment of another player? Therefore should the rest of us trust the reads of a possible alignment cop? How should we handle such a possibility? Or should we just chuck it to the bastard winds?

Trust the cop until they're outed.

And Mac's very last post was this:

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:23 am

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:11 am Ok, I'm home on the computer. Indulge me for a minute and allow me to completely let go of paranoia for just momentarily. I'm looking at the player list. And if I go ahead and let myself fully trust even those people I don't 100% trust, I'm curious what my suspect pool will look like. Anyone who has given me a town ping at some point in the game I'm counting as town in this PoE exercise.


coloniabob
jinrou


That's who I'm left with. Who are YOU left with, if you do your own GTH reads, and don't allow yourself to have ANY nulls at all? What does your PoE look like? In your gut, or in your heart, or whatever organ you mafia with. (Ye perverts!)


This is before I've done another read-through or vote analysis, it's just my general sense of who feels town to me this game.

Welcome to my brain 12 hours ago

Linki - Mac - we're gonna try our level best, friend.

What day 1 vote weirdness? If you think I bussed, say that.

I fail to see how that response is scummy.

Sure, you and Mac suspected me and jinrou. So what? If you're trying to say that's why Mac died, why wouldn't you be the target? After all you're a lot higher on most people's civ list than he was.

I think you may have bussed. Happy?

Also, have you understood ANY of the reasons behind ANY of the night kills up to this point? Why would they start making sense now? And why would you choose to use that argument when the NKs have been beyond kooky since Night 1?


Linki with myself!!!
OMG I'VE CREATED A HOLE IN THE TIME-SPACE CONTINUUM WITH MY CONTINUED USE OF MULTI-TABS!!! SAVE YOURSELVES!!!

indiglo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:04 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:47 pm I'm on [VOTE: Kyle] aubergine for now btw

Why Kyle?

You've mentioned 0 suspicion of him all game, and in fact have called him town multiple times.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:49 am Announcement

@colonialbob @MacDougall

You are both racist for voting in the night poll.

Predators don't represent black people because that sends the message that black people used to be "savage" until they decided to be more like white people, making it safe for both races to live together. Additionally, that would make the main character arc a story about how a scrappy white police officer overcomes racism against white people to save the day. Bob is racist for thinking this is the case.

Prey doesn't represent black people because then the movie is about how white on black violence is actually a plot concocted by black people to make white people look bad. This from a movie that comes on the heels of high profile incidents like the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner, would be incredibly racist. Mac is racist for believing this is the case.

They're also both racist for comparing black people to animals. In a game about a children's movie no less. You should both be ashamed of yourselves.

Spoiler: show

In all seriousness, the truth is that despite being framed as a allegory about race relations in America, Zootopia doesn't say anything at all about racism. There is no systemic racism in Zootopia. It merely contains individuals like Mr. Hopps who believe in untrue sterotypes about other animals, individuals like Bellweather who use this individual prejudice to their advantage and jokes/plot points that use whatever animal is convenient as a metaphor for whatever race is convenient but only for the duration of the joke or as it relates to that specific plot point.

The message of equality and tolerance is entirely undercut by the fact that different mammals are waaaaaaaaaay more different than people of different skin colors. A woman that clutches her purse closely in the elevator when a big black man enters but does not do the same when a similarly sized white man enters is racist. As far as she knows, these men are the same but for their skin color. A rabbit who is fine sitting next to a sheep but not sitting next to a wolf is justified because unlike a sheep, a wolf can fucking eat her and it is a plot point that wolves used to go around eating rabbits. Both sidesing the issue and saying that everyone just needs to not judge people by the color of their skin is the most patronizing level 1 message you could possibly have as the conclusion to your movie about racism and that's exactly what Zootopia does.

To be fair, it's really hard even for movies that are not aimed primarily at children to say something insightful about race without being entirely ham-handed about it. Crash won best picture in 2004 and it is just as shallow as Zootopia while spending far less time with likable characters. If you haven't seen it, Zootopia is still more than worth watching because it is at the very least incredibly funny. There are several scenes that I can watch over and over and laugh at every time and that's worth something, even without a deep message.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:20 pm I have down LC, Dys, and indiglo as civilians.

Does anyone wish to argue with me on that?

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:22 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:08 pm I don't object. What's your view?

Well, largely PoE.

Also, a little bit of hinkyness from Bob himself. I was looking back, and noticed he had started being on my radar for quite a while, but was like staying quiet and not drawing attention to himself.

There was that Day 1 vote weirdness, and an explanation post that uses some of the excuses about wonky voting I've used before as mafia (association bias, I acknowledge):

Spoiler: show

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:41 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:36 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:11 pm A decision is better than random and I prefer soneji to the other two with two votes so [VOTE: soneji] aubergine

What made you go from voting me to voting the wagon I started?
Also the votes were not tied when you voted. Nut had already voted Soneji here.
Why did you prefer Soneji over Kyle and Daisy?

Clearly nobody was going to vote with me, and there was a three way tie that I did not care for. I was sus of you, sure, but it's day 1, there's only so strong a sus can be.

They were tied when I started that post, 2 v 2 v 2. With literally a minute before EOD it's not like there was time to check what had actually happened in the linki. Actually I changed my vote before posting to make sure I made it before the poll closed and it jumped from 2 to 4 votes, but again didn't have time to check who had voted or anything.

Kyle is a player who generally takes time to ease into a game and is (generally) not somebody I'm ever interested in d1. I feel relatively good about my ability to read him as the game progresses. Daisy was absentee and had some questionable voting patterns associated with her. Soneji was the only one of the three with actual reasons to be sus.

(Also sorry for the broken tag I manually typed the slash and used the wrong direction like a real dumbass)

((also sorry for being racist against asses, donkeys, and other members of subgenus Asinus))

Then, he told me this:

Spoiler: show

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:24 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:14 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:14 pm Excellent. Mac trusted LC, and I expected LC to be the one to go down.

I'm spit balling here, indulge me.

With a role like Officer Higgins, would one perhaps expect Mac to have been an alignment cop, or something similar?

If yes, and remembering that the host said we would not be alerted if/when our targets were changed... should an alignment cop trust the results they get from the host upon checking the alignment of another player? Therefore should the rest of us trust the reads of a possible alignment cop? How should we handle such a possibility? Or should we just chuck it to the bastard winds?

Trust the cop until they're outed.

And Mac's very last post was this:

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:23 am

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:11 am Ok, I'm home on the computer. Indulge me for a minute and allow me to completely let go of paranoia for just momentarily. I'm looking at the player list. And if I go ahead and let myself fully trust even those people I don't 100% trust, I'm curious what my suspect pool will look like. Anyone who has given me a town ping at some point in the game I'm counting as town in this PoE exercise.


coloniabob
jinrou


That's who I'm left with. Who are YOU left with, if you do your own GTH reads, and don't allow yourself to have ANY nulls at all? What does your PoE look like? In your gut, or in your heart, or whatever organ you mafia with. (Ye perverts!)


This is before I've done another read-through or vote analysis, it's just my general sense of who feels town to me this game.

Welcome to my brain 12 hours ago

Linki - Mac - we're gonna try our level best, friend.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:17 pm Cbob, you have two votes. What say you?

indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:14 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:14 pm Excellent. Mac trusted LC, and I expected LC to be the one to go down.

I'm spit balling here, indulge me.

With a role like Officer Higgins, would one perhaps expect Mac to have been an alignment cop, or something similar?

If yes, and remembering that the host said we would not be alerted if/when our targets were changed... should an alignment cop trust the results they get from the host upon checking the alignment of another player? Therefore should the rest of us trust the reads of a possible alignment cop? How should we handle such a possibility? Or should we just chuck it to the bastard winds?

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:55 pm Guys don't vote speed chuck, I am quite sure he is civ.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:51 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:24 pm People I like: indiglo, dizzy, logic, Mac

People I don't like: speedchuck, LC, owner

People I have a suspicion are 3p: epignosis

I don't believe you tbh. Why do you like me? The only interactions we have had are me voting and sussing you, which you just ignored. This is the first time you've mentioned me. The rest of your reads aren't provocative enough for my tastes either.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:31 pm I like Logic giving content, but I don't see anything that's not just as easy to do as scum if that's his style. It's hard to read for me, because "+/- scum/town points" isn't really my style. It gets confusing when he's like "-town points" to his top town reads and stuff.

Anyway. For now I'll just observe that I don't get how Bob was his top town read at a point. And that I think he's dancing around LC a bit. Possibly teamed.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:24 pm

indiglo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:11 pm speedchuck imagine you're not being looked at suspiciously. Who are you looking at right now? Inquiring minds want to know.

I've already given a suspect pool. Most of it still holds. If I were to look into someone right now, I'd probably look into people who were here, but didn't seem to care about the tie between myself and Sloonei.